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[–]BryanJz 109 points110 points111 points 5 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link
I'd make a small alteration into ''I am a good person, and I expect you to magically see that and take my penis''
99% of it is men wanting a woman, they have not even expressed to this woman that they want a lover type relationship and not a friendship, so they stick around forever hoping she'll see friendly interactions as sexual interactions. After a certain amount of time the women has no choice but the put this dude in some box, and it'll be the ''friends box''
It's their fault for not having the balls to a. say what they want, and if not leave or b. leave. Usually, this is coupled with the women giving JUST enough sexual bait/flirt to keep the guy around though, that's where the women is at ''fault''. More exposed/noticeable in women Twitch streamers and how they fake flirt and hide boyfriends with subscribers to keep money coming.
[–]klippklar24 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Amen to that.
Those men hold it all back until the bubble busts and out comes a pathetic confession of love.
[–]knightydk 7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's the most pathetic thing a guy can do is chase or wait around for ONE girl, like at least tell the girl you want to go out, so you have a yes or no and not wasting months or even years, trying to bff and being an emotional tampon and thinking that's gonna get you laid
[–]Jarin01 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Manson talks about this in Models. Waiting too long to let a woman you like know that you like her is the number 1 reason guys get put in the friendzone. A girl might actually like you but if you never make a move she might assume your not interested. Once she sees you as a friend and not a potential lover there isn't much you can do to change the way she thinks of you.
[–]murphy_008 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
We've got a word for that - Simp!
[–]chemmyboi 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I love that word so much hahahaahhaa
[–]poshypoo29 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Yep.
[–]MrLazyTiger 9 points10 points11 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
You can complain or you can adapt. I used to be a morbidly obese "nice" guy, now I do sports, tale care of myself, don't feel entitled, and women love me for who I am
[–]left_at_read 7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Kevin James- the mall cop guy, is that you?
[–]poshypoo 5 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Good on ya!
I find that most of the people who I end up quasi-coaching, just friends and family mostly... who have measures of success have done exactly what you did.
Ultimately it is simple. Women desire for a man to know himself, take care of himself and be the best he can be -- no excuses. Same goes for what a man wants in a woman, its the same just with a few gender variation tweaks.
Women want a man to own his shit and be unbreakable and dependable. (this does not mean being perfect)
And men want women to open to them, open their bodies trustingly, be nurturing, sexy and receive what men have to give beautifully, happily and appreciatively.
I find the two most common frustrations is women wanting men to be like them! As in feel and express emotions just like they do! I have female friends who go off to me and I'm like "told ya last Tuesday honey, he does that because he is a man!! When you have an actual problem I will be the first one to tell you. My partner does something similar when he talks with men who seek his advice.
Men being controlled by hormones and feeling entitled and not able to effectively communicate intentions well in their own way but yet still a way women can "get". Or being dishonest and blowing the situation up by not understanding their role. Men also are poor with social cues so they read things skewed to the sexual edge I find... or even worse they act like they are a eunich!
Dont get me started on very feminine men and very masculine women. When women have become masculine by hurt. And men have become feminine through improper mentoring and support from other men. Shit blows up!! Masculine women with the emotional needs of a feminine woman -- blocks her from finding the love she needs. Feminine men who have not yet found their straight path and centeredness cant offer yet what a woman is looking for so he turns angry simply from not understanding yet. IMO its the bane of modern marriage and relationships. Awareness and education and each sex focusing on themselves first... thats a good part of the answer. Stop looking for what we are going to get... be the man/woman that a man/woman would want/need.
Thanks for dropping a line here. Keep woke!
[–]MrLazyTiger 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I get the sense you also read Corey Wayne, as I did? :)
[–]comu_nacho 9 points10 points11 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
People who don't watch Rick and Morty, what do you think this scene is about?
[–]poshypoo 5 years ago* [recovered] (29 children) | Copy Link
How about "The Friend Zone isn't real because women aren't machines you put kindness coins into until sex falls out!" Love that quote.
I don't see anything wrong with learning the art of seduction for its own sake, after all I lurk in here picking up some tips myself. However, I do find it amusing that the majority of people in this sub seem to be men who are utterly complexed about what women really want and are thinking that some sort of learnable smooth skill set is going to get them what they want. Kind of like an overweight person wanting an easy quick fix diet pill that will instantly make them skinny instead of doing the real lifestyle changes that will last and be part of a larger life fulfillment. The answer is to realize that women have a completely different biological imperative and intrinsic emotional and mental mindset than men do. To be successful with women you must understand us behaviorally, hormonally and then adjust your behavior to be complimentary, anything else is temporary or will fail - This is because women have a much higher barrier to entry as we screen for safety and security. Eggs are extremely expensive and scarce compared to sperm, which is a dime a dozen. Nature designed us this way. While men have an extremely low barrier to entry as they screen for surface level and more obvious things like sexual attractiveness, waist/hip ratio (fertility) and the likelihood that a woman will have sex with them. Our reasons and motivations behind relationships and sexual activity seem to completely perplex men and they always seem to want to find the easiest laziest way to have sexual access to us. But until they do the long term deeper work they will only find repeated frustrations. The men who have natural success with women are out there doing it. They aren't making bitter YouTube videos about how they failed and it's all women's fault and the answer is to now go their own way. Lol. These successful men don't care what anyone thinks! Anyway, cool entertaining sub everybody. :)
[–]BurnItDownSR 43 points44 points45 points 5 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link
The friendzone is real. Just because its a slang word and there's no formal word for it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
The informal word "friendzone" does describe an actual, observable social situation. And that situation is when one party wants something sexual but the other party only wants to be friends and nothing more. Are you gonna deny that relationships like that exist?
To be successful with women you must understand us behaviorally, hormonally and then adjust your behavior to be complimentary, anything else is temporary or will fail
You just described the thing you're trying to refute. A man's ability to adjust his behavior to be complimentary to women behaviorally and hormonally is the learnable skill that is taught here.
And its not like an easy fix diet pill, its like going to the gym and putting the work in because you don't get that learnable skill overnight, you practice it over and over for months or years until you're good at it.
[–]poshypoo 5 years ago* [recovered] (22 children) | Copy Link
Hey thanks for being a respectful gentleman in your response. :)
I think we are just seeing things from different angles. Our views vary contextually.
Yes, the "friendzone" though I hate that term, does exist... as in your scenario of one person wanting one thing and the other not. But its the connotations! One person inot being considered as a sexual partner for the other person should not be the be all end all of the situation. Friendzone tends to be used as a term for men to describe that they were somehow slightly or done wrong by a woman. As if a woman not wanting to have sex with certain men denotes something wrong with the woman an d her personal choices or the man and his desirability. Nothing is wrong with either party. Men seem to take it personally instead of just accepting that she simply chose not to and that's her choice. Women dont demand unlimited, no barrier to entry access to men's genitals... and especially not just because a man was nice to us!
As far as describing the thing I am trying to refute... I can see the angle you are looking at it from and should have described further above. I see the word "Seduction" in the context of this Subreddit as being a set or subset of pickup artistry more than a genuine scholarly study! lol. Maybe if it was called something like "Helping Men Understand Women" then things would look different. But what I mostly see here... most, not all.... is men wanting to gather tips and tricks for the sole purpose of making it easier to bed women. They are looking for some magic pill. They seem to come from the mindset of "if I just get enough little tricks under my belt then I can get all the sex I want all the time and no woman can resist me, I will be the king with the unlimited supply." Instead of a mindset like "these here women creatures are complicated as fuck and I have to step outside of my belief systems and viewpoints for a moment to understand them, use my mirror neurons and empathy to see where they are coming from and then I will finally have reverse hacked the system and know it fully."
The fact that men think we can be seduced is laughable to 95% of women. Our screening systems are innate and have firewalls within firewalls. If a woman is fucking you, there is a reason! Believe me, she is making the choice to deliberately, not because your oh so awesome seduction skills got her to. lol. .I think men living with insane levels of testosterone for the majority of their lives prevents them from having any kind of lived experience understanding that women are not slaves to their hormones at all. Sort of a "men dont know that they dont know" thing. Women's minds are lived almost completely free and boundless, we only focus by choice. We are not compartmentalized in our brain structure like you guys. Now a man might think "so at least she is fucking me, I got what I wanted" well yeah sure, hamburger is still good meat until you are tired of longing for Filet Mignon. My point is, men tend to want unlimited sex with unlimited partners up to a certain age when their testosterone is still quite high. But for most men there eventually comes a time when he wants not just great sex but respect, admiration, appreciation and true non-fake desire from a quality woman who is committed and loyal to him. And only truly understanding a woman enough and treating her in ways that suit her will illicit that response from her -- not general seduction techniques that are for the most part, cheap fluff found in an internet forum.
Good convo. Fuck yeah. Too bad they will probably take it down.
[–]Mr_82 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Women's minds are lived almost completely free and boundless, we only focus by choice.
What exactly is this supposed to mean? Because tons of women claim their lives are not "free hand boundless" at all, but instead controlled by "the patriarchy."
Glad you asked.
Not sure what "the patriarchy" complaints have to with it. Thats a bunch of outside stuff. Social structure/social justice warrior/angry lesbian/victimhood thing... so I wont address that part since it has nothing to do with the capability of a women's thinking style and capacity or range. What you are referring to is a singular thought and what I am referring to by "free and boundless" is capability, logistics and execution.
Im sure you have heard the the age old "women are crazy" or "women overthink it" or "women make it too complicated" lines over the years. Its generally thought that men keep things simple and women complicate things.
First some context of what I meant:
Im talking about the unique effects of estrogen/progesterone/oxytocin and the larger and more connected corpus callosum in our brains in comparison to your overall larger, mainly testosterone and vasopressin controlled brain.. which makes men super specialized in what they do! In fact, your ability to simplify things and to be hyper focused on a task or any one thing at a time is part of reason we women are so attracted to you. Also, your ability to simple let things go... wow amazing! We dont love these attributes when they are inconvenient for us in certain moments- lol-- but we love them overall because opposites are fascinatingly attractive.
Now for the meat of the answer:
Do you know how your wife (if you dont have one insert any female) asks you to fix something and you are highly focused on doing that task and maybe you are frustrated cause something is going wrong and you have to keep troubleshooting it and getting deeper and deeper into the fix. And your wife walks over and is asking you questions...or.. giving you suggestions that arent helpful... or talking useless womens gossip about her coworkers... or heaven forbid telling you what to do! Think of how that feels for a moment. Its sooooo annoying. You just want to be left alone so you can be efficient, capable and focus on just that one thing you are doing right? You are in the fix the dishwasher mode only. Once you have completed that -- you move into the eat dinner mode -- next is the shower and shave mode--- and on and on, you're brain works almost 100% of the time in a completely linear fashion. Like emptying a hard drive file by file, once something is complete, you do your best to wipe it from your brain because its highly stressing for it to build up.
WOMEN'S BRAINS do not work this way! lol. In fact, they work almost completely the opposite way. Whereas a man's mind is constantly trying to empty itself and seek release a woman's mind is filling itself. It happens without us wanting it to and it either fills for the good or fills for the bad. With most women its a ratio... 80 good and 20 bad.. or 70 good 30 bad ... when your woman gets to 60 good and 40 bad watch out --- shes about to blow! Too many browser windows are open at once!
Picture a bowl of spaghetti all swirling around and connected... in comparison to your brain like a waffle with individual compartments. Or like I said above.... browser windows. A man has just once open at a time if he can help it. Women have at least 5 at once!
A woman is built not just as a better multitasker (due to different responsibilities than men back in caveman days) but she cannot control how many windows (thoughts and feelings) are open at once.
A woman can have a baby on her hip, cooking dinner, helping a kid with homework, remembering her work assignment deadline, give emotional support on the phone with her cancer ridden sister Suzy, wondering if you are ok and didnt get killed in an accident on the freeway on your commute cause you are now 10.5 minutes late getting home, look in the kitchen mirror and note that she needs a new hairdo and think about why you dont seem to notice her anymore and how she would love a short weekend getaway to try to close down some of these bad windows in her mind but she feels like you are stressed to and she thinks it may be bothering to you ----- AND ALL THIS AND MORE IS GOING ON AT ONCE!! Can you imagine! lol. Its hell for us sometimes but most of the time we cant stop it. This is why a woman can be having sex with you and not really seem into it... because in her head she is thinking about chores, things undone, worries over her children etc. She cannot focus just on what is here and there because she has too many windows that have not been closed. In fact, she can be fooling you as her body acts like she is into it while mentally and emotionally she is miles away.
Having too many bad windows open at once causes not just stress but lack of sexual feelings, emotional pain, loneliness, anxiety, irrational fears and a myriad of other undesirable mental/physical/emotional effects on us.
To understand part of why men and women were designed differently with opposite but complimentary skillsets just look at the way intelligent design designed our bodies.
A man gives ---- he provides -- he gives the sperm, shoots it from his body in an act of giving --- HE RELEASES his energy to her through sex to create life.
A woman receives -- she takes in and creates -- her egg sits still waiting for the sperm to chase and find it -- SHE FILLS UP to create life.
As in our bodies, so in our minds.
A woman looks for all types of abundance, money, a beautiful home to fill up with decorations, a closet to fill with beautiful clothes, a bunch of friends to fill up her heart with emotional support, a husband who notices her burdens and helps her, wonderful kids, health, love, happiness..... For men there is nothing more attractive than a woman FILLED UP -- Just not filled up with the bad windows--- the vast majority of her windows must be things that are enlivening-- thats what makes a happy, sexual, loving, supportive woman.
So the short answer:
When I said "free and boundless" I am mean that our mind is huge and spans far and wide like a way too big empty vessel. We think exponentially instead of linear like men.... men can usually let shit go just by choosing to... or maybe he goes out and plays rugby or tinkers in his garage with the sole purpose of blowing off steam and fixing a problem in his mind the best that he can so he can EMPTY.. he can finally LET IT GO. Oh man, we women are jealous of your ability to do that believe me! But we simply are not made that way... we let go more slowly and in other ways I wont go into right now, but they are not always available to us. If her mind gets filled with too many negative thoughts or experiences then her mind is hell and she generally is going to act like a bitch. However... one of the most beautiful things in the world about having a free and boundless non-compartmentalized mind is that when it is filled with the highest percentage of good things... our happiness makes the world go around! It flows out everywhere, we take good care of ourselves, we look good, men love us, we feel sexy and sexual, we dance, we sing, we forgive, we praise WE LOVE!!
[–]Andxel 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What a bunch of bs. Generalizing like that won't get you anywhere. Free and boundless? Not all women have a mind like that. On the contrary some of the women I know I'd say are extremely limited and obtuse in their way of thinking. Same can be said for us.
And you know , saying stuff like "we want to be put on a pedestal just be careful how you do it" (that's pretty much what you've said) it's some infuriating shit for us. That is why nice guys end up doing the exact opposite in the long run and get surprised when it actually works out to their advantage. I understand it is kind of inconsequential to discuss like we're doing how women should remove a behavior such as that but yeah, if we could change something about you as a group it'd be that kind of incoherence. Because the sad thing is when a girl cries over a guy turned asshole it's the nice guy's shoulder she'll be crying on (until he turns asshole too and the cycle restarts).
[–]sidfreelance 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Why do these moral and biological science lessons become relevant when someone is average to just above average in looks, and go down the drain for good looking ones ?
Any women psyche facts that explain this slut like hypocrite behavior ?
[–]klippklar 5 years ago [recovered] (12 children) | Copy Link
Hey, while I agree with most observations from your perspective and enjoy your witty writing style, your last segment seems like wild ramblings to me, I'm a little disappointed.
All the baseless generalizations aside: women seem to complain about guys that put women on a pedestal yet you do the same. Way of shooting yourself in the foot.
On a sidenote; referring to men as 'a slab of meat' is creepy af.
[–]Mr_82 7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yeah this is why men shouldn't take dating advice from women.
Yeah because taking your chances with a lion instead of asking the zookeeper for help on how to behave so you dont get eaten, while waiting for help to get out of the cage.... is ya know, always a better choice.
I think if someone genuinely desires to improve their dating skills then taking advice from BOTH men and women is the right way to go. Why rob yourself by aligning with a paradigm that leaves one whole side of the perspective out.
A male dating coach can teach you about being your best male self and a bit about how women think... but he will always miss the finer nuances and the ability to speak and convey knowledge from the ACTUAL EXPERIENTIAL REALITY of being a woman. The same is true for a female coach teaching a male. We need both sides.
Its funny... I have never heard the average woman (leaving out the outliers, man haters and weird fringe women) not crave to know more about men, how they think, how they work, what they really want and how to love them right. But when its reverse and women are trying to tell a man how they work they use various tactics do discredit, shoot down, ignore or generally render it useless. I guess that attests to our open-mindedness in those ways.
At dinner parties etc when these conversations it comes up and the general consensus is women want to know so badly everything about a mans inner workings but they JUST DONT TALK TO US and help us understand. Men want to know how women work but the second we start explaining we are instantly dismissed because "you cant take dating advice from a woman!"
SMH lol
[–]klippklar5 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
What nuances are you speaking of?
[–]poshypoo 5 years ago [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link
Can you elaborate on your last paragraph. I'm very interested in your thoughts.
Because if you mean what I think you mean, it brings me to have really great point I've been explaining to my guy friends lately... and it's a concept so often not discussed in gender relations. I think men so often take the whole "if you treat her too good she will take advantage of you, or you'll lose her or she'll lose respect for you" thing WAY too literally. We want to be put on a pedestal, but how and why is a set of subtle nuances that I think sometimes go over mens heads.
Me and my female friends have definitely had head scratching sessions over why men seemed to think so black-and-white. Like why must it be just one thing... And if they find out or you can prove to them that it's not that thing then they switch completely over and it has to be fully the other thing!
[–]klippklar 5 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
Filet Mignon and hamburger referred to different men?
Were you talking to your friend about guys you date or guys you don't find attractive? I bet it's the former.
[–]poshypoo 5 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
Omg. Read slowly.
I am saying that about men having sex with random women or any women while they secretly long for a quality one to settle down with eventually! Not only are you incorrectly understanding the analogy of quality of sex/sex partners to hamburger or steak.... you are also not seeing that I am referring to the woman as the meat.
And I quote: "Now a MAN might think "so at least she is fucking me, I got what I wanted" well yeah sure, hamburger is still good meat until you are tired of longing for Filet Mignon. My point is, men tend to want unlimited sex with unlimited partners up to a certain age when their testosterone is still quite high.
:she is fucking me <---- she as in the woman is being had by the had as a sex partner
Hamburger is still good meat until you are tired of longing for filet mignon <--- as in random hookups with women (hamburger) are not as satisfying in the long term for men who eventually look for that quality lifetime woman (the meat)
Wow. lol
Im dropping the kind of info not often seen here simply cause Im bored today as i broke my toe rafting yesterday and im laid up on the couch from work. Judging by the upvotes I think the silent people are reading and understanding the info instead of just wanting to be snarky and narrow minded. Im rarely on ready unless I happen to google something but I hope a few people are taking notes and get some value on the way women think in case this is wiped. Which the truth usually is.
Ive never been one to tell comfortable lies! xoxo
Also... maybe meat was a poor analogy but I just had a nice ribeye so it was the first thing that came to mind. Carnivore diet! Its amazing and my biceps are starting to show better tone.
[–]klippklar 5 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
Did you have too much wine too?
[–]poshypoo 5 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
You haven't seen me on the wine yet, baby. smooch
[–]klippklar 5 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
I hope I never will.
[–]poshypoo3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Actually you won't. I had a beer when I was 22. Threw up. Not a drink since.
You should lighten up. Everyone else is having fun!
[–]TusharDua 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is the biggest myth that modern media is selling to men, men never want to settle down with one woman, never have they had since caveman years. Men are respected in their community for the success they have with career, money and women and not for settling down which is laughable. Although that will be what women want.
But modern feminist media is trying to make men believe they do so that they provide for promiscuous women after they are in the 30s and have lost the year when they were the best looking and the chads are no longer giving them the advances they used to get, this is a trap to make men who never got lucky with woman early on feel that they will get to a better place after marriage and they provide their money and care to someone not worth it.
Also the testosterone thing, for men it increases till 35 and then starts decreasing gradually till they reach 50, while for women the best mating years and the time at which their SMV is the highest is at 20-25 and after 30 it falls rock bottom.
Men age like fine wine so the idea that they want to settle especially when they reach above 27 when they actually have almost peak SMV and finally some financial stability to get their hands dirty with some women which they never had maybe due to not so good-looking stats earlier which is the only thing that matters to women when men are below 20. This myth makes them settle down with 0 experience in how women work and leads to wasteful marriages and divorces which again men have to pay for.
Also in your comments i see that you like to make analogies so here is one: "Never ask the fish how to set up a hook, ask the fisherman." and that is why taking dating advice from men who have been successful in dating is the only thing that other men should look for and nothing from women.
[–]poshypoo1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I would re-read. lol. Nowhere did I say that.
[–]BurnItDownSR 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
Friendzone tends to be used as a term for men to describe that they were somehow slightly or done wrong by a woman. As if a woman not wanting to have sex with certain men denotes something wrong with the woman an d her personal choices or the man and his desirability.
I don't notice that very often especially on this sub. Maybe its more commonplace for the incel subs. And for the men who actually do this, its just their way for them to lash out when hurt, most regret it afterward or at least look back at it as a moment of weakness, the few who never get over it are usually the ones who do end up labeling themselves as incels or they're the depressive woman hating guys who just keep feeling sorry for themselves but these guys make up a small minority of men.
They just seem more than they actually are because they're very noisy on platforms like Twitch and onlyfans.
Men seem to take it personally instead of just accepting that she simply chose not to and that's her choice.
Women take rejection personally too. In fact I'd argue more so than men.
A lot of women in fact get outraged at the "audacity" of a man to reject them as if it was the man's lucky day that a woman who he has no interest in tried to hit on him and feel justified to personally attack that man while their friends actually encourage the behavior.
When women lash out because of rejection they cause much worse damage to men, so much damage it can even be physical damage or destruction of property and people often make excuses for the female perpetrator or sometimes even downright say that the man deserved what she did to him.
If a woman slaps a man in the face and cries because she got dumped, the people in the venue only look over in slight shock and gasp a little, some might even negatively judge the man or think that whatever he did, he deserved that slap.
If the roles are reversed and a man slaps a woman for dumping him and cries about it, someone will almost always step in to defend the woman, sometimes people will even gang up against the man and tell him that he's a piece of shit or something and at the very least the man is at great risk of being detained by the police.
Women dont demand unlimited, no barrier to entry access to men's genitals... and especially not just because a man was nice to us!
Women do...more than men do.
Men don't want to have sex with all women, they only want to have sex with the ones they're attracted to.
Women are the same. What you're imagining right now is a woman refusing sex from a guy she isn't attracted to. When a woman is very attracted to a man, she wants to have sex with him more often than he wants to have sex with her.
Why? Simply because biologically, women can go more than men when it comes to sex. Orgasms don't make women's sexual desires subside, in fact they make them hornier because orgasms raise women's testosterone and they don't need to take a break after an orgasm, they can just immediately go again.
Not to mention, the pleasure a woman feels from an orgasm is a pleasure that a man cannot even fathom. The experience of sex is so much better for a woman than it is for a man.
When a man orgasms, his sexual desire and his testosterone does lower and he will need a significant break before he's ready to go again.
And a lot of women do get upset and throw tantrums and start fights when their partner refuses sex with them, probably because they're not used to getting rejected in that aspect or probably because their self-esteem hinges a lot on whether they're physically attractive or not and are hoping that at least their partner will always make them feel attractive even when there are definitely times when objectively they are not.
Want evidence? Look at women's Instagrams. The vast majority of women try to look as physically attractive as possible. There are outliers but they're just that, outliers, only a minority of women are not trying to be validated based on how physically attractive they are.
But what I mostly see here... most, not all.... is men wanting to gather tips and tricks for the sole purpose of making it easier to bed women. They are looking for some magic pill. They seem to come from the mindset of "if I just get enough little tricks under my belt then I can get all the sex I want all the time and no woman can resist me, I will be the king with the unlimited supply." Instead of a mindset like "these here women creatures are complicated as fuck and I have to step outside of my belief systems and viewpoints for a moment to understand them, use my mirror neurons and empathy to see where they are coming from and then I will finally have reverse hacked the system and know it fully."
Yes, you're absolutely on point in this observation.
What you might not have noticed is that students will always outnumber teachers.
The tiny number of men here who are damn good with women, who offer advice that actually work, set all the guys looking for a quick fix straight and in fact the advice coming from the men who know what they're talking about is usually what gets upvoted to the top.
Messages with themes like, "this is easy", "there are shortcuts", "or there is a magic pill" are not the ones that rise to the top. In fact, messages like that often get downvoted to oblivion.
The fact that men think we can be seduced is laughable to 95% of women. Our screening systems are innate and have firewalls within firewalls. If a woman is fucking you, there is a reason! Believe me, she is making the choice to deliberately, not because your oh so awesome seduction skills got her to. lol.
This is definitely a "that's what they all say" situation.
And when I say, "that's what they all say" I really mean that's what we all say. As in men say it too and they're just as wrong.
Both sexes are equally vulnerable to their own psychology being used against them.
In fact, I've noticed a bit of an uptick in women asking for advice on how to seduce men here and the fact that this subreddit is predominantly made up of men means that the advice being given to these women is often horrendous because the guys giving her that advice are acting as if game won't work on them when in reality it will.
I also believe the same for subreddits that are predominantly women. I think dating advice to men on subs like r/askwomen is also horrendous.
Its understandable. No one wants to think that they can be easily controlled. Unfortunately, we can, we're all vulnerable to it.
You're definitely right in saying that probably 95% of women think its laughable that they can be seduced, 95% of men probably feel the same way but both sides are wrong.
Both sides are human, both have brains, and both have systems in their brains that are easily exploited by those who are proficient at that.
Unfortunately most of us are too naive to see that.
Cant reply tonight but can I just say you rock! You have brought up soo many tiny lightbulb moments for me with your perspectives. As a sapiosexual, its very stimulating. Thank you.
[–]theemoonking 5 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Good points from both parties.
I come from an eastern point of view which dictates sex as a more spiritual act. Which is why I get your point about seduction, it’s connotation implies a type of no brain set of “skills” that make things easy.
The heart of this convo like you iterated is the idea that many many partners is somehow the goal and a big “win” in status. Which is insanity in my opinion, because what’s more insane than a person that derives all worldly success on how many partners they’ve had. This is no different than the animals we look down on while calling ourselves rational beings.
Like you said men, especially in the west must reevaluate their desires, how does having a bunch of sex actually make you a better man, better son, better member of society or help humanity in general? It literally doesn’t, actually it’s the opposite because even statistically and as shown after the summer of love, all that sex brought on disease the world has never known.
But, if one were to do the work as you said, get outside of this mindset and seek love and respect this is what dignifies a man. Because then he finds somehow good, which is beneficial to himself, as a part of a family as a member of society with good upbringing of children or just a good none broken family home. This is what actually contributes to oneself and the whole.
The west must reevaluate what sex actually means, and instead of putting it on some crazy pedestal, understand it’s not some end goal
[–]poshypoo2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Preach my friend.
Once we get deeper, more discerning and sacred with our sexuality its like changing life from black and white to technicolor.
I can see you totally get it!
[–]ZestycloseYoung 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I'll have you know my sperm is worth 13 cents a dozen, ma'am.
13 cents and a pack 'o bubblegum. ;)
[–]BoogieorBust 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Now you got something to chew on
Ha! :D tee hee
[–]TusharDua 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Re: from my reply to this thread because i want all the men to see this
[–]poshypoo4 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I freaking love this thread!! Who knew some random post I stumbled upon would turn into such an enlightening conversation! Maybe I should peruse Reddit more often.
I love when non-woman hating men and non- man hating women can have a dull garn good conversation about this sort of thing.
Husband is home now and I must get on with evening family routine.
xoxo
-M
[–]SomeoneJustLied 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Just wait till the Marxists take the “equality” to its logical conclusion. There’s already been some insane talk about it on Rogan and other podcasts. They really do believe women need to share their vaginas.
I disagree to some extent, men need to be taught about the reality by other men, most nice guys are actually nice in the way the modern media and bad parenting is teaching them that being nice will get them things.
I have been through that phase and cannot fathom that behaviour into words but i actually cared about those girls and thought that it will fetch me a relationship.
Also men are pushed to believe that no sexual encounters before relationships although it is the opposite that sexual attraction comes way before anything.
I accept that it affected my confidence and i was a pussy to just not straight up state how i felt and move out if it wasn't mutual.
But all about seduction and owning yourself that i have learned after that didnt even had one bit inside my brain that nice guy was who i was, heck, when you find dating advice on Quora it is mostly women ir simps teaching you the same.
Once i got introduced to the dark side it took me one second to get out of that behaviour and do a 360, and the problem was no one ever told me that.
So i believe men need to teach other men and preach these things instead of thinking that the guy will affect the dating market for you. Also to some extent maybe i would have not given such efforts to change myself if breaking of that bubble in which i was very deeply invested might have not broken me inside.
[–]BurnItDownSR 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes but no.
As in I agree but unfortunately the mods are gonna take this down when they see it.
[–][deleted] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]andy2002andrei 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
All of us can fall in the friendzone, but how you deal with it makes the difference between a chad, a standard dude and a niceguy.
In my case I developed feelings for a female friend and after a couple of discussions, we are still close friends and I moved on. I am back on the hunt with a wing girl.
[–]SB_XFEET 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
💯😂😂 this.
[–]miyagikai91 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah.
Has anyone here seen the Morty card one?
[–]AmiablePenguin 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Being angry about being in the friendzone is like being upset that you're the only person in a building when you have the key.
You can let yourself out and put someone in whenever you're strong and self aware enough to know what and who you want.
[–]BurdenofPain 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Supersoaker!!
[–]ZackGrimstone 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's more of a "nice guy" thing
[–]ShinyVegeta 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It didn’t need captions
[–]wheeets 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Stay scientific Jerry
[–]Jarin01 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If you don't like being in the friendzone than grab your balls and fucking leave. No one is forcing you to stick around and your fooling yourself if you think hanging around her is going to make her like you.
[–]beto_747 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think you’re looking for r/niceguys or r/feminism
[–]ld20r 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Just wanna chime in here and say while I agree people are ultimately at fault for not expressing their emotions or feelings earlier to others, I don’t believe it’s right or for us/anyone to Judge why they did or didn’t. God only knows what stunted them from making the move, the courage it took to do it or the emotional pain that pented up over time from not taking the initiative.
I was one of those kids a few years ago that was paralyzed with fear and man it sucked, I can empathize with anyone that’s battling a private hell know one will know about. Be kind and Assume nothing. As everyone you meet (even if it’s as stereotypically perceived as a simple and an often taken for granted task to ask someone out) is fighting a war in a battle that you know nothing about.
[–]chekavar94 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No, it's when you fall in [unrequited] love with a friend 😑
[–]Sewage2003 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I do believe that seduction techniques do not guarantee anything physical. However, there are tips to be learned for the naive male. Women are marketing oriented beings more than men. They appreciate aesthetics and style more naturally. Men like tshirts and jeans. We have to learn how to attune ourselves to the other genders’ attentiveness.
Women also think more than men do. And about a myriad of topics. While we are more single-minded, certainly about dating and flirting and sex. “Seduction” really should not be an interaction with one goal. It’s the journey not the destination that makes relationships fun.
Lastly, you bet your life men can learn seduction techniques when it comes to sex. Your average male absolutely sucks. No idea of female anatomy, foreplay and building anticipation for the actual event. And during, goodness there is enough to be learned that every male should be given a course at age 18.
[–]JimmyTorpedo 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Honestly, legalization of sex for money in controlled environments...health plans and benefits for the workers...consumers with health check ups, strong legal fines for any shenanigans...
[–]recyclablebanthas1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You did read the rules where it states no pic memes are allowed?
So, no.... This doesn't belong here.
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