Mens rights and feminism

KRosen333 · 2013-06-11T20:29:37+00:00

Feminism by default hurts men.

This is because:

Patriarchy - as academic feminism defines it, it is not real. It literally defines all men as oppressors, regardless of anything that ever happens ever.
Rape culture - this was originally termed for prison rape, which affects 200,000 men a year, but feminism has co-opted this term to apply to all men. Feminism believes all men rape by default.
Feminist lobbies - feminist lobbies actively write and lobby for legislation that hurts men when there are alternatives that would both respect womens and mens rights.
Feminism does not beleive women can rape men, and have gone out of their way to hide any instances and proof of this happening.

http://i.imgur.com/40ssAFW.jpg <- My infograph regarding the CDC and the definition of rape

If you are a feminist, and you believe in any of this stuff, or think any of it is okay (like a majority of feminists), you are directly working against the equality and fairness of men.

Remember, being for womens rights does not mean you are a feminist.

I am all for womens rights and equality, 100%, but will never be a feminist. Unlike feminists, who seem to not love their fathers, brothers, and sons, I love my mother, I love my sisters, and if I ever have a daughter, I will love them too.

Disorderly-Conduct · 2013-06-11T20:45:34+00:00

I think feminism has always called itself a movement for gender equality, but I think that in reality, feminist advocacy has only ever demanded special privileges and protections for women. I think that feminists sold men a lie that men and women would be given equal opportunities and then it never made good on its promise. I think that feminists have purposefully monopolized the gender discussion so that men issues would not be given equal weight. I think that feminists change stances on topics to suit their immediate needs, a la "patriarchy hurts men too! JOIN US" and then five minutes later "you have male privilege! SHUT UP"

I think that if feminism was honest about gender equality it never would have enacted the VAWA, the ACA, The Tender Years Doctrine, The Dear Colleague Letter, No Bailout For Burly Men, The Disappearing Girl Crisis... and it certainly wouldn't misrepresent and lie about Domestic Violence and Rape statistics and the Gender Wage Gap.

I think what most feminists fail to recognize is that the MRM is the logical progression of Feminism. Feminism doesn't address the ways in which men are discriminated against, so... along came a group that did. And this group is opposed to feminism only out of necessity. So many of our issues are a direct result of feminist advocacy and sweeping them under the rug isn't an option. They need to be addressed and eradicated. I think feminists also fail to recognize that the feminist movement has a long history of lying, misrepresenting data, and pushing propaganda. That type of lineage doesn't exactly inspire trust.

To be clear, I'm not talking about the radicals. I'm talking about feminist advocacy. I am talking about the leaders of the feminist movement. I am talking about the movers and shakers. I am talking about the academic giants of feminist theory and the political giants of feminist activism. I am talking about Patriarchy Theory. I am talking about Male Privilege. I am talking about the Myth of Historical Female Oppression. Every cornerstone of Feminist Theory is based on a lie or a half-truth, and every piece of feminist legislature discriminates unfairly against men.

Most feminists don't realize that Feminism isn't so different at all from Traditionalism. Both of them prioritized women over men. One does it through Chivalry and one does it through self-interest. Also, they don't realize that MRAs are not Traditionalists. We don't want to go back in time. We want to move forward.

What most feminists don't realize is that by not supporting the MRM, they are not supporting gender equality, and thereby flushing their integrity down the toilet. Feminists don't stand for gender equality. They stand for women's entitlement. If they stood for gender equality then they would be the FIRST people lining up to support MRAs. If feminist supported gender equality then every time they saw misandry, they would denounce it. Instead feminists try to oppose MRAs. They try to keep men down.

While there are some feminists who truly believe they stand for equality, those are the feminists who are willfully ignorant in regards to feminist activism. These are the feminists who happily shut their eyes and ears and pretend that feminism never hurts men. Or that this hurt is somehow justified because at some point in some alternate reality, men had it better than women did. While we appreciate their well-wishing, these feminists are still part of the same movement that is actively working, even today, to strip us of our rights to due process. The movement that denies that false accusations are a big problem. The same movement that refuses to call female-on-male forced sex "rape."

Can Feminism and Men's Rights work together? Sure. But first feminists would have to be honest and respectful. That means prioritizing men in areas where women are advantaged and making a serious commitment to gender equality, which means giving up a hell of a lot of female privilege. That means taking a long hard look at what feminism has done and what it has become and admitting the ways in which women are unfairly benefiting at the expense of men.

Possible? Sure. Likely? No. What is likely is that this society is going to go further into debt as a result of feminist activism over the past 50 years and eventually it is going to go under. You don't ramp up social program and welfare costs while discriminating against the most productive members of society. From an economic standpoint that is just plain stupid, and frankly their isn't enough time or resources to correct the damage that has been done. Too many young men are undereducated and too many educated young women will not work nearly enough hours to fill the gap.

avantvernacular · 2013-06-11T21:06:31+00:00

In response to your edit, I see woman's rights as the pursuit of legal parity to men, and feminism as when that pursuit either adopts paradigms like "patriarchy" or "rape culture" theories, or seeks to go beyond parity to superiority.

Disorderly-Conduct · 2013-06-11T20:36:31+00:00

I don't know. Every time you try to nail down what feminism is, all you get is shrieking that 'there is more than one feminism!'.

So as near as I can tell, feminists don't even know what feminism is.

Disorderly-Conduct · 2013-06-11T21:48:01+00:00

do you think feminism and mens rights are in opposition to each other

Yes, with modern mainstream feminism. The men's rights movement wouldn't exist if the feminist movement as a whole did it's job right.

Pecanpig · 2013-06-11T21:49:32+00:00

I think we are polar opposites in every way, from our general demographics to our ideology.

Women's rights supports the equal rights of women, Feminism is a supremacy movement.

Quarkster · 2013-06-11T20:30:55+00:00

We make a distinction between feminism and women's rights advocacy.

Feminism is the ideology which asserts that women are systematically oppressed by a 'patriarchy' that favors men. Academic feminism commits a lot of academic fraud and manipulates statistics to support the conclusions it wants. (I was skeptical of this claim when I first heard it here, but ask about that in particular and you'll get some pretty convincing arguments) Feminism is supposedly about equality, but completely ignores men's issues.

I do not assert that women's issues are solved, only that the dominant force in women's advocacy oppresses men both directly, in the case of some laws, and indirectly, by refusing to address men's issues while condemning outside attempts to do so. I'm not saying that people are individually trying to oppress men (though I've see a few who do so), I'm saying that the belief system is flawed and dogmatic.

Many people who advocate for men's rights also do so for women's rights. Women's and men's rights advocates can certainly work together to make the world a better place and can even be the same people. Real progress, however, will require society to examine feminism more closely and see what it has become. Some people are already doing this, and I think it's turning out well.

DavidByron · 2013-06-11T21:44:36+00:00

Feminism is an anti-male hate movement so .....

what is it specifically about feminism that hurts mens right?

Well they vilify men, spread hatred of men, legislate against men's rights, encourage negative stereotypes and societal discrimination against men, advocate and practise sex segregationism, and they favour violence against men.

In summary all the things usually associated with the phrase "hate movement".

How do you differentiate between feminism and womens rights?

Women's rights don't have anything to do with feminism. Seriously can you name ANYTHING feminists do that advance women's rights? It's like saying the KKK are for white rights. I mean there's a sense you could say it's true but it's bullshit because women already have all their rights and more.

Juan_Golt · 2013-06-11T23:16:13+00:00

The strife between Feminism and MRAs is about values vs policies. Most rational people agree that your gender should not determine your role or status in society. Both Feminism and MRAs trumpet the value of 'men and women treated equally'. The differences are when you ask the follow up question of 'how do we arrive at our goal of equality among the genders?' What does each side consider as 'fair' or 'equal'? This is where the controversy erupts. I'll provide a few examples:

Feminists tend to view the world as male dominated. Which isn't entirely incorrect. Most people in positions of power are male. This is used to justify certain advantages that women receive to try and level the playing field. MRAs tend to see 'the patriarchy' as a joke. As if one gender were in control of this amoral universe? Being male makes you more likely to end up homeless than CEO. Telling a man that he must accept unequal treatment because of his boss's privileges is maddening. Both sides are fighting for their own version of equality, but they are in direct opposition.

In family law, Feminist organizations routinely oppose joint custody and equal parenting time for men. In their minds it's justified because 'men are abusive'. On the MRA side, I'd wager that at least half of the men who came to menrights did so because of Kafkaesque injustices by the family courts. Many of these injustices enabled by policies backed by Feminist organizations. Feminists view men as abusive and seek harsher laws from family courts. MRAs view the harsh family courts as abusive.

girlwriteswhat · 2013-06-11T20:23:21+00:00

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Juan_Golt · 2013-06-11T21:37:30+00:00

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rightsbot · 2013-06-11T20:20:17+00:00

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KRosen333 · 2013-06-11T21:55:26+00:00

EDIT: So i see that some people say that feminism is hurtful to mens rights, but womens rights is not, and that womens rights is something they are supportive of. In that case i have another question, How do you differentiate between feminism and womens rights? what is it specifically about feminism that hurts mens right?

Well, because womens rights is common sense. There isn't a womens rights lobby actively hurting men. There isn't an academic branch of womens rights who advocates ... madness is all I can think of.

There are a few around here who understand that, agree with it, and still refuse to drop the feminist title - that is their right. They wish to see feminism as just and true equality, and I hope that they are able to see feminism returned to an ideal of equality.

All I can say to them is they are a drop of goodness in a sea of hate.

Regarding what feminism does that hurts men, there are numerous examples given around.

I gave mine below, in a different comment - Regarding Male Rape victims not being recognized. (We believe, though this is unproven, but circumstantial evidence is pretty strong, that the feminist author Mary P. Koss is behind this very specific definition of rape, for the sake of stats)

2013-06-12T00:45:44+00:00

Difference between feminism and women's rights is the difference between an ideology that you're not allowed to question or criticise vs a movement for the rights of women. How does feminism hurt men's rights? Title IX, Dear Colleague, Facebook's recent feminist take over, family courts and divorce courts (both run on feminist dogma), DV industry (run by feminist ideology, duluth model, no men's shelters or few if any)...do I need to paint a clearer picture?

girlwriteswhat · 2013-06-11T20:24:19+00:00

I think feminism and the MRM are absolutely compatible. A lot of people here disagree with me, though.

Manzboobz · 2013-06-11T20:23:22+00:00

Can't we all just get along?

Title	Mens rights and feminism
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	5
Comments	90
Date	June 11, 2013 8:20 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1g59c4/mens_rights_and_feminism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/mens-rights-and-feminism.1171530 https://theredarchive.com/post/1171530

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