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Men oppose Female Genital Mutilation [FGM, Female Circumcision] more strongly than women, says UNICEF.

Consilio_et_Animis

July 19, 2016
137 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.thecable.ng/men-oppose-fgm-strongly-women-says-unicef
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Title Men oppose Female Genital Mutilation [FGM, Female Circumcision] more strongly than women, says UNICEF.
Author

Consilio_et_Animis

Upvotes 137
Comments 72
Date July 19, 2016 12:22 PM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/4tkujj/men_oppose_female_genital_mutilation_fgm_female/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/men-oppose-female-genital-mutilation-fgm-female.945272
https://theredarchive.com/post/945272
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Comments

[–]ExpendableOne 36 points37 points38 points 10 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

It's likely to be the same kind of insecure denial and defensiveness you'll often find in men in America who were circumcised, and who will irrationally defend circumcision in men because it was done to them as infants. They can't acknowledge that there is something wrong with circumcision, because then they think that means there's something wrong with them. They don't think anything is wrong with it, because they basically grew up with a mutilated penis being their norm and can't even conceptualize a penis being any other way.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]junoguten 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I think there are actually some african tribal religions that demand FGM, even FGM type 3 (clit head, labia, stiched tightly shut).

Surely the same people will be saying to respect these people's religions? I'm sure we'll even have the UN saying to respect indigenous people's rights, like they did in regards to some pacific indigenous peoples religious rite of penile subincision.

Sarcasm in the previous paragraph aside, I don't think even the most brainless westerners would think that justifies it.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]junoguten 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Oh my bad, I didn't mean I don't think they (they = the people who argue that MGM is totally a good thing but just thinks the justifications for and effects of FGM are nothing like it) would think religion justifies MGM. I meant I don't think they'd think religion justifies FGM. Suppose I could have worded myself better.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]junoguten 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Touche, they probably would.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I oppose circumcision but I've been accused of defending it for asserting it's not as bad as FGM.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not sure where you defended it so I don't know for sure if you did it BUT what I have seen others do when taking that positions is saying "FGM is worse than MGM". Which is only correct if you take the worst form of FGM and compare it to the 'best' form of MGM. Those people also forgot that in the western world ALL forms of FGM are illegal no matter how slight and afaik all forms of MGM are legal.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Consilio_et_Animis[S] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you. Great post.

[–]Daemonicus 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's the same mentality that goes into deaf parents being against cochlear implants for their children.

[–]user_none 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Umm, the article states more men are against Female Genital Mutilation than women, not for FGM.

[–]plainwalk 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

In that the same mentality behind men supporting MGM is behind women supporting FGM.

[–]TorontoIntactivist 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

From what I can tell, the rationalizations, denial, and defensiveness you see with FGM are identical to that of MGM.

Predatory abusers zeroed in on a weak spot in the human psyche.

[–]Dazz316 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

What if it was medically necessary and, like me, believe it's ok in that circumstance. My foreskin caused me a shit ton of pain.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Dazz316 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's fine. His view just seemed one of. Not ever!

[–]plainwalk 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Medically necessary procedures are an entirely different ball of wax. I don't think any sane person would be against a blood transfusion after a major accident, organ transplants if an organ failed, or chemotherapy if the child has cancer. Putting a child through chemo just because his father had it done, however...

[–]thchosenjuanliveson -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not gonna defend either way but I don't usually conceptualize other dicks...

[–]Jander97 19 points20 points21 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And lots of women will say we aren't allowed to care about MGM at all, because most FGM is "worse," when I am and everyone should just be against genital mutilation of babies/children... full stop.

[–]JulianneLesse 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

And more men support women being able to have abortions than women supporting men having a choice whether or not they want to become a parent

[–]Dazz316 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

That may be partially down to a biological connection woman have felt during pregnancy that we can't comprehend. I dunno.

[–]JulianneLesse 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

While I do agree with that, when I browse /r/askfeminists, I couldn't find a single person in all the LPS threads that even close to supported it. There was an askwomen thread asking in a world where financial abortion is legal, how would you feel if a guy you started seeing had a financial abortion? Overwhelming amount of people said they would like it as he'd be ditching his responsibilities, imagine if the genders were reversed, more guys would be fine seeing a woman who had an abortion.

[–]Diesel-66 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Because they aren't comparable. With an abortion, it's over. There is nothing to raise. You can't just back out and ignore the child's living expenses.

[–]JulianneLesse 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

They're comparable in the way that many times in life oh aren't ready for the obligations for having a child and either gender should be able to opt out

[–]Diesel-66 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Except when abortion happens, there is no kid to provide for. Adoption, foster home, or one parent not having custody you still need to raise a child and that costs money.

[–]JulianneLesse 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Then if the woman doesn't think she can support the baby on her own she could abort or adopt it

[–]Diesel-66 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

She has that choice but you can't force her to get an abortion. And of she gives it up for adoption, both parents have to provide child support (often to the state) until the child is adopted.

[–]JulianneLesse 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No, you can't force any woman to abort, it is their choice. But there should be a system to let them know if you aren't ready for a child and can't support one, then the woman should have a window she can abort it with that knowledge.

[–]BookOfGQuan 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I cynically note that the article still can't bring itself to actually shoot the false narrative dead completely, despite the evidence. "Men, even more than women, oppose FGM" - implying that women oppose it, when the whole issue is that a great deal of them don't oppose it. How they've phrased it isn't technically misleading at all, but it does gloss over the biggest barrier to ending the practice, which is women.

In these countries, womens' business is often considered distinct from mens' business. Men can dislike the practice all they want, they can't really do anything about it.

[–]Consilio_et_Animis[S] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. African women hold pro-FGM demo: https://youtu.be/x8HWlAVBzQQ

[–]Nova_sum 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I find it amusing when the truth is posted, and then downvoted. Like, I don't go to r/feminism to downvote shit I don't want to read. I just don't read it. You have to wonder why they come here to troll, downvote, and xpost. Creepy little freaks.

[–]junoguten 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm gonna go a bit off point and mention an abortion survey. There was this survey (I forgot its name. I'm bad with names :-( ), that instead of letting people say importance on a scale of 1-10, only let people sort the positions in order. (cause people tend to put 10 on all the issues).

Basically about 2/3 of the people who listed abortion as their first topic on both sides of the position were women. On the pro-life side it was 67-33, on the pro-choice side it was 62-38.

Somehow female lawmakers still feel the need to hold men's sexual health and contraception hostage whenever something inconveniences the women who wants an abortion.

[–]SirGuileSir 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because their god was too stupid to know what he was doing?

Or because feminists are out for power, whether that be over men OR women?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's because women in america only care about themselves. If women in america cared about women in other countries you would actually hear them give a fuck about real oppression, aka the middle east. Instead they keep pushing the fake wage gap. Go figure, women want more money from men....

[–]rottingchrist 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If only they opposed male circumcision also as strongly. Though I'm sure they do oppose male circumcision too in more numbers than women.

[–]tallwheel 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This is the dirty little secret. FGM is used in these cultures as a sign of being a good "chaste" woman. There are no bigger defenders of f the chastity of women in the world than women themselves. The idea that men are the ones who solely force the poor defenseless women into it (or that the women have internalized misogyny) is a manufactured narrative which we have all been made to believe in in the West.

[–]Consilio_et_Animis[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly, the older women don't want the young hotties running off with their men.

[+]vegasthief -11 points-10 points-9 points 10 years ago (48 children) | Copy Link

I'm a male who is circumcised. I seriously don't know why the FK men's rights activists are crying out for my behalf. I haven no problem being circumcised.

[–]Consilio_et_Animis[S] 13 points14 points15 points 10 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

I'm a male who is circumcised. I seriously don't know why the FK men's rights activists are crying out for my behalf. I haven no problem being circumcised.

That's amazing! You signed a consent form to have a large chuck of your penis hacked-off when you were just a few days old.

How did you manage that????

[+]vegasthief -10 points-9 points-8 points 10 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

Who carees dude. And no, I was 6 years old and know the before-after affects of circumcision. No difference except you might have to regularly moisturize penis head to keep it more sensitive.

[–]Consilio_et_Animis[S] 12 points13 points14 points 10 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

No difference...

Sure honey-pie...

Note: The vast majority of these links from reputable scientific journals, with peer-reviewed research.

1: Women prefer intact penises. And elsewhere you can find men do as well!

Source: http://www.healthcentral.com/drdean/408/60750.html

http://www.cirp.org/library/anatomy/ohara/

2: Masturbation feels better.

Source: http://www.cirp.org/pages/anat/

3: Circumcision significantly reduces sensitivity.

Source: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2006.06685.x/epdf

http://www.livescience.com/1624-study-circumcision-removes-sensitive-parts.html

4: Despite the reduced sensitivity, there is no change to lasting longer during sex.

Source: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2005.00070.x/abstract;jsessionid=E233A9E106A9 A6D724B4E3606446784E.d03t01

5: Cut men have a more difficult time fapping.

Source: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2005.00070.x/abstract;jsessionid=E233A9E106A9

Which was the reason it was promoted in the USA in the first place.

http://english.pravda.ru/science/health/27-03-2006/77873-circumcision-0/

6: Circumcision increases risk of erectile dysfunctions.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14979200&dopt= Abstract|

7: If too much skin is removed in circumcision, it can make the penis smaller since the dong needs some skin to expand during an erection:

http://www.altermd.com/Penis%20and%20Scrotal%20Surgery/buried_penis.htm

http://www.drgreene.com/azguide/inconspicuous-penis

8: Circumcision does not lower the risk of AIDS.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22096758/

9: Circumcision is more hygienic. Who the heck doesn't clean their penis? It's a three second job you do when you shower so this is not a valid argument. Women produce 10 times as much smegma as men - so it's OK to amputate an infant girls' labia lips so she doesn't have to wash them??

10: Circumcised foreskin sold to cosmetic manufacturers for profit:

http://voices.yahoo.com/human-foreskins-big-business-cosmetics-201840.html

11: Erectile dysfunction 4.5 times more likely to occur if you're circumcised

http://www.thewholenetwork.org/14/post/2011/08/does-circumcision-cause-erectile-dysfunction.html etc

12: Stanford's school of medicine list of circumcision complications (including infection, haemorraging, skin-bridging, phimosis, amputation and death):

http://newborns.stanford.edu/CircComplications.html

13: Cut infants get long-term changes in pain response from the trauma of being circumcised

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9057731

14: Circumcision decreases penile sensitivity

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23374102?dopt=Abstract

15: Circumcision associated with sexual difficulties

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21672947

16: Circumcision linked to alexithymia

http://www.mensstudies.com/content/2772r13175400432/?p=a7068101fbdd48819f10dd04dc1e19fb&pi=4

17: The exaggeration of the benefits of circumcision in regards to HIV/AIDS transmission

http://jme.bmj.com/content/36/12/798.abstract

18: Circumcision/HIV claims are based on insufficient evidence

http://www.4eric.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/MC.pdf

19: There is no case for the widespread implementation of circumcision as a preventative measure to stop transmission of AIDS/HIV

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1753-6405.2011.00761.x/full

20: Circumcision decreases sexual pleasure

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17155977

21: Circumcision decreases efficiency of nerve response in the glans of the penis

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17378847

22: Circumcision policy is influenced by psychosocial factors rather than alleged health benefits

http://www.circumcision.org/policy.htm

23: Circumcision linked to pain, trauma, and psychosexual sequelae

http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/boyle6/

24: Circumcision results in significant loss of erogenous tissue

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8800902

25: Circumcision has negligible benefit

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9091693

26: Neonatal circumcision linked to pain and trauma

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9057731

27: Circumcision may lead to need for increased care and medical attention in the first 3 years of life

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9393302

28: Circumcision linked to psychological trauma

http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/goldman1/

29: Circumcision may lead to abnormal brain development and subsequent deviations in behaviour

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10657682

30: CONCLUSIONS: This study confirms the importance of the foreskin for penile sensitivity, overall sexual satisfaction, and penile functioning: Furthermore, this study shows that a higher percentage of circumcised men experience discomfort or pain and unusual sensations as compared with the uncircumcised population.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23374102?dopt=Abstract

31: CONCLUSIONS: Circumcision was associated with frequent orgasm difficulties in Danish men and with a range of frequent sexual difficulties in women, notably orgasm difficulties, dyspareunia and a sense of incomplete sexual needs fulfilment.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21672947

32: CONCLUSION: There was a decrease in masturbatory pleasure and sexual enjoyment after circumcision, indicating that adult circumcision adversely affects sexual function in many men, possibly because of complications of the surgery and a loss of nerve endings.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17155977

33: CONCLUSIONS: The glans of the circumcised penis is less sensitive to fine touch than the glans of the uncircumcised penis. The transitional region from the external to the internal prepuce is the most sensitive region of the uncircumcised penis and more sensitive than the most sensitive region of the circumcised penis. Circumcision ablates the most sensitive parts of the penis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17378847

[+]vegasthief -8 points-7 points-6 points 10 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Ugh these are cherrypicked primary sources. Let me give you a sum up of the actual secondary reviews & meta-analysis on what scientists think of circumcision:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3881635/

And no, lol that's a myth. You are talking about someone WHO IS CIRCUMCISED dummy. Yes, there is less sensitivity after circumcision only if you don't moisturize it. The sensitivity comes from the penis glans being exposed to air which causes the skin to roughen up with a new layer that keeps the original glans moist. If you simply use vaseline on your penis everyday then you're good.

[–]Consilio_et_Animis[S] 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Oh dear oh dear... you have linked to some "research" (a bit of Googling) that cites numerous articles by that well-known circumcision fetishist Brian J. Morris. A man who declares his "interest" in circumcision LOL:

http://www.intactwiki.org/wiki/Brian_J._Morris

Brian runs pedophile circumcision fetish clubs; and wrote a pro-circumcision leaflet with a friend of his who is now in prison in the UK for sexually abusing little boys, and possession of circumcision related child pornography — Vernon Quaintance:

http://www.intactwiki.org/wiki/Vernon_Quaintance

Brian also links to numerous psycho-sexual pro-circumcision websites from his own website and Facebook page.

Jake H. Waskett is also listed as an "author" on a number of the cited articles — and his is just a computer programmer. Oh, and a notorious circumcision fetishist in his spare time:

http://www.intactwiki.org/wiki/Jake_H._Waskett

No one believes any of the pedophile stuff that these guys write; and anyone that cites them is deluded.

Still, try again /u/vegasthief — 😘

[–]vegasthief 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

You can't throw away peer reviewed secondary sources buddy. They are as good as facts.

I don't think you know how science works. These research material had to go through a whole editorial board before it got published in such journals.

[–]Consilio_et_Animis[S] 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think you know how science works

Well, I know how pedophiles and child sex-abusers work, that's for sure 😜

And I'm pretty good at spotting them when they try and push male genital mutilation on un-consenting infants because it satisfies their evil fetish for "circumcision".

If hacking a chunk of your penis off is such wonderful medical "science", then you can wait until you are 18 and make the decision yourself. No problem.

Adult male circumcision is easy, quick, cheap and painless:

"A simple disposable device, known as PrePex, can be used to effectively circumcise male adults without anesthesia or a sterile environment and with no blood loss, and patients can return to work within hours, investigators announced here at the American Urological Association (AUA) 2011 Annual Scientific Meeting."

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/743451

Of course adult males in western countries in Europe are queuing-up to get this wonderful adult circumcision.

...oh, wait a minute, my mistake. No they're not! 😎

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

I have to say, you've changed my view on the topic somewhat. That source you cited was great: a peer reviewed meta-analysis, where none of the authors had a conflict of interest in the subject area (as noted at the end of the study).

However, I still feel that the recommendation of universal male infant circumcision is potentially at odds with the concept of bodily integrity (especially as described by the UN). Regardless of whether you're fine with your own circumcision or not, it is also a question of bioethics and the ability of an infant to consent to a portion of their body being irreversibly altered for benefits that can easily be obtained later in life. And considering that the most benign form of FGM (e.g. symbolic bloodletting by pricking the genitals with a needle) is banned in the U.S., we should really reconsider the issue of male infant circumcision.

Edit: after looking at other sources, it seems that neonatal circumcision is banned in some countries. Australia's pamphlet at http://www.ccyp.vic.gov.au/childsafetycommissioner/downloads/male_circumcision.pdf had a fair treatment of the ethical considerations for male neonatal circumcision.

[–]vegasthief 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think the male circumcision as an issue is at the bottom of the list because banning it conflicts with the religious freedom of billions of muslims/jews and also the practise itself has very little impact on male sexual and psychological functioning. The only moral issue here is the body integrity part, so I think it's a issue that will require engaging with religious leaders as well as the religious community.

[–]Consilio_et_Animis[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

engaging with religious leaders as well as the religious community.

This is what happens when "religious" leaders and the "religious" community "engage" with infant boys and a sharp knife LOL:

You can watch an infant boy being sexually fondled and masturbated here by a mohel. He's given a forced erection, so then it's easier for the child sex-abuser to mutilate his penis:

https://youtu.be/yaaw7wivUN4?t=3m12s

Here a mohel describes how the point of circumcision is to damage the boy's sexuality:

https://youtu.be/XN65C9tbLP0?t=10m34s

And here he is again, showing the torture and rape tools he will use:

https://youtu.be/XN65C9tbLP0?t=4s

You can watch a full mutilation here. The little boy will be raped by having a metal probe forced in-between his foreskin and the glans of the penis. The foreskin is adhered to the glans and birth, and does not separate until he is older. The rape-probe tears the two apart — rather like having a needle forced under your fingernail.

Then the boy will be tortured by having a clamp applied to his penis and his foreskin crushed. Then the child sex-abuser will mutilate his penis by amputating his foreskin.

https://youtu.be/W2PKdDOjooA?t=3m2s

This lucky little boy then gets a "Happy Ending" — the child sex-abuser sucks his bleeding penis, gives him herpes and then the kid gets brain damaged for life or dies.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2304793/Two-babies-stricken-HERPES-ritual-oral-blood-sucking-circumcision-New-York-City.html

So fondling, masturbation, rape, genital mutilation, oral sex, herpes infection, brain damage and death.

All in the name of "religion".

Nice.

[–]Consilio_et_Animis[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

none of the authors had a conflict of interest

Apart from they cite known circumcision fetishists numerous times! 😂😂😂

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

They do cite Brian Morris, that's true. But they also cite a number of independent studies conducted by people uninvolved with him. I'm not saying there isn't a bias. But being so instantly dismissive of a well-reviewed secondary source in a reputable medical journal really isn't adding to your image of credibility, OP. You might be better off comparing conflicting secondary sources than attacking the character of some of the researchers.

[–]TorontoIntactivist 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

Child Circumcision: An Elephant in the Hospital https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ceht-3xu84I

[–]vegasthief -4 points-3 points-2 points 10 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link

You're an MRA in toronto? I live Toronto and there is no need for the MRAs here. Everything is already gender equal.

[–]tallwheel 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link

LOL. I must move to this paradise of equality known as Toronto!

[–]vegasthief -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

Homeless shelters for men, free mental health services for everybody etc etc. Like it's stupid to argue for men's rights activism here.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

Hmm, can a man in Toronto decide WHEN and IF he wants to be a parent that can't be overridden by another person? Does a man have equal access to services if he is a DV victim?, Does a man have equal amounts of money spent on male related health issues as women do? Can a man decide to give up a child for adoption without the mothers consent in Toronto?

Oh yes, equality.

"If both the birth mother and the birth father sign consents to the adoption, his consent is final. The birth mother has 30 days in which to revoke consent". Some legal equality for you.

[–]vegasthief -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

"Equal amount of money spent on male health related issues"

Holy shit, why does it have to be equal amounts of money idiot? Should we spent equal amount of money on white issues as much as immigrant issues? We spend money based on how important the issues is relative the group we are spending it for.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Then it isn't equality is it??

[–]vegasthief -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

It's relative equality jackass. It's equality in the general sense of being equally obligated to help all demographics when the issues are of equal importance. Otherwise, it's not reasonable.

God, I can tell you're one of those bitter angry guys.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

So then what you talking about is equity , not equality.

*eq·ui·ty ˈekwədē/ noun 1. the quality of being fair and impartial. "equity of treatment"

e·qual·i·ty əˈkwälədē/ noun the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, and opportunities.

I see you also like using insults and tautologies as well. Do you think that makes your arguments stronger? Because here's a tip, it doesn't.

[–]tallwheel 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

That may be so, but Toronto has one of the largest populations of SJW's and feminists from my understanding. You can't hold a talk from even the most soft-spoken MRA (Warren Farrell) without them protesting and using illegal means to try to shut down the talks. I think that is an affront to equality.

[–]vegasthief -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

Soft spoken MRA? Warren Farell published a book that depicted men as victims and women never having been oppressed during history. It's an actual insult to both historians and all the women who have suffered for no reason except for men's own actions.

[–]tallwheel 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

I've read all of "The Myth of Male Power" and "Women Can't Hear What Men Don't Say", and that's not the impression I got at all. Have you actually read his books or are you just parroting what you've heard feminists say about him? He definitely never says that women have never been oppressed throughout history. That's laughable if you actually believe he says that. He was the president of a chapter of NOW for years before he decided that feminism had steared wrong.

Check out his youtube channel. Dude comes off as one of the kindest, most loving husbands and fathers, and true believer in equality.

https://www.youtube.com/user/drwarrenfarrell/

There are some quotes from him that can seem shocking when taken out of context, true, but if you read his books and get the overall message, you can clearly that he is only making a point about how things can look from a male perspective. This is for the sake of striving for equality, not to claim that men are oppressed and that women never were. Seriously, you should not believe wild claims that others have told you so easily.

[–]vegasthief -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

No they are not. There are way too many quotes by people Warren Farell and Erin Prizzey that's just disturbing and no context would justify it.

The myth of male power? Dude the title in itself verifies what I just told you. And LOL shocking when it's taken out of context? It's shocking both in and without context. He's making provocative statements to further his chauvenist agenda.

"From a male perspective"

From a male perspective, men always had it fucking good. Yeah they worked in physical labor but they controlled all of family resources, wealth, property and any extra money that they earned. Men legally owned women as properties and were their legal guardians. Marital rape was not a crime.They literally had women dependent on them for survival and so which women would never divorce or question their authority. You want to know how feminism got started? It got started by the writings of Mary Wollstencraft who was born into a family where her father abused and beat her mother every single day. Domestic violence was legal at the time and Mary had to protect her mother from her father's violent drunken tirades. When she grew older she became a prominent author and who inspired by the values of the enlightenment in which she proposed that both men and women ought to be equal and looked as rational human beings instead of superior and inferior. Warren Farell is a joke.

[–]tallwheel 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

OK. You are just trolling now. Either read and actually understand what you are commenting about or go back to your feminist echo chambers.

He never says that men never oppressed women or that either men or women have it better than the other. You are viewing things far too black or white. Both men and women can have advantages and disadvantaged, and someone can say that without claiming that one side has never had it bad.

[–]vegasthief -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah men oppressed women and viewed them like shit, it's written in every religion, philosophical teachings of Aristotle, and even in literature by men. And men can't be entirely to blame because women too themselves were complient and submissive to what men told them as a result of evolutionary flaws mixed with male competitiveness + male dominated hierarchy. I literally think it's the worst thing to be a woman and would never want to reincarnate as one because you are literally born as baby makers and submissives with Stockholm Syndrome. That's why I don't empathize with male issues ever because it's just stupid since men have so much biological and social privileges over women. They dominate and control culture.

[–]vegasthief -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

You're talking about one incident at University of Toronto. Listen, there are many MRA groups here (although no one likes them) and Ryerson University I believe has the biggest mra organization out of all the universities in Ontario. They are not harassed but occasionaly do get exposed for sharing beliefs with extreme groups like AVM in which case feminists do get triggered. But other than that, there has never been any problem.

Yeah Toronto is a multicultural city man. Obviously there's going to be SJWs.

[–]tallwheel 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You're talking about one incident at University of Toronto.

LOL. No I'm not. Look up what happened when CAFE tried to hold other events in Toronto. Like the talks by Janice Fiamengo or Paul Nathanson and Katherine Young.

[–]vegasthief -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Honestly I don't really care. Those idiots sound like conservatives from outside the city barging in to feed propaganda to a bunch of socially isolated white suburban males. Male victimhood propaganda shouldn't spread so I don't really empathize with any of those incidents.

[–]tallwheel 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Again. You show that you don't even care to know anything about what you are criticizing.

Paul Nathanson and Katherine Young identify as liberals. Nathanson is a Gay Jewish man, so 'how conservative could he be' he said himself at the lecture in Toronto.

The footage of the protestors of that talk showed that they did not even know who they were protesting. When asked, they recited quotes from Warren Farrell. So, I don't know. They thought it was Farrell instead of a liberal old woman and a gay man? Those protesters are a lot like you, don't you think?

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