I'm tired...

crazyex · 2011-02-05T02:51:38+00:00

Please don't dig yourself a hole on principle. If the custody ruling says she has the final say, then you will be endangering your relationship with your daughter by taking a losing stance.

I'm sorry for your family's situation, but please wait until you can work within the shitty system before you take your stand.

Last week I informed my ex that I would be taking my daughter to church, as the judge hasn't ruled either way. >The judge simply told us to compromise and if we couldn't compromise, then to schedule a hearing.

What the judge said is not what will be enforced. Someone has ruled, because:

After due consultation with Father, if any dispute, Mother has final decision making authority."

This is what will be enforced. She has the final say.

Following the letter of the law is not being a mangina, or a weakling. You are fighting an uphill battle against a system designed to rule against you, and you are dealing with a heartless ex who knows where you stand and will make you pay if you break the rules by taking a stand.

You are better off than a lot of divorced fathers. Going to jail will only make your situation worse. Arrests, jail time, and "taking a stand" can all be easily parlayed into you being a dangerous, unstable influence on your daughter, and you will see her less than you do now.

i_flip_sides · 2011-02-05T01:35:54+00:00

Hey, dude. Sounds like you already made up your mind, but I wanted to offer a different perspective here. Terms like 'mangina' and 'kow-tow' are for power struggles during dating. Your #1 goal here should always be to maintain a relationship with your daughter. Have no delusions, in this situation, your wife is all powerful. (If God were going to intervene, he probably would have already.) She holds all the cards, and you have NO rights. If you do this, she's going to take your daughter away, and tell her that you left because you don't care about her. Your relationship with your daughter will be permanently and irreversibly damaged.

When the courts say the father and mother are supposed to compromise, they mean the father is supposed to compromise. So compromise. Find another alternative. Watch church on TV, or hold your own services at home. But whatever you do, don't give your ex the excuse she's looking for to take your daughter away from you. In this situation, bowing to her demands is not 'kow-towing,' it's sacrificing your pride for the sake of your child. It's being a good father.

Sorry, man.

plain_name · 2011-02-05T02:43:57+00:00

I live in PA, so this may not be the same in your area.

I know that police around here cannot, and WILL NOT get involved in custody issues, as far as enforcing custody orders and making children leave one parent for another. I have full custody of my two daughters, and when their mom was living with an abusive BF, I wouldnt let my kids go back to her on her visitation weekend. She called the cops, they came out to write a report on the incident, and told her thats all they could do. My lawyer told me that I had to be careful when the kids went to school. because if she picked them up before me and kept them, I would be in the same boat and wouldnt be able to get them from her.

Around here, all you can do is go to the court and file for emergency custody, and then follow the proper channels. I also know around here that you legally cannot keep one parent from taking the child to church.

Google lawyers in your area that give free consultations, alot of times they will give you all the info you need to know, as far as what forms to fill out. And you are right, there are TONS of free resources and mothers groups available to women in the system, but none of the protections and options available to the good fathers in this world.

Good luck. I know the struggle. Dont give up.

zau64 · 2011-02-05T03:25:38+00:00

Your daughter will grow up and realize what her mother was doing... and hate her for it.

koncept61 · 2011-02-05T04:44:40+00:00

the police cant do anything to stop you

join custody is joint custody. once they find out its your time with her, they will tell your ex to fuck off

unless youre doing something illegal, the cops dont get involved in civil matters like this.

Wargasm6 · 2011-02-05T20:02:39+00:00

tl;dr should be "Don't fuck stupid bitches, they will always be stupid angry bitches."

RainyInferno · 2011-02-05T02:51:17+00:00

I may have missed it, but how old is your daughter?

I have a very blurry memory of being about 6 when my parents divorced and sitting on a judges knee (without either of our parents present) asking all three of us who we feel we should live with and why.

I'd take her to church, and if you get arrested then it'll be that much sooner that the judge hears your side of the story.

PrurientBookworm · 2011-02-05T10:21:44+00:00

As a woman, I want to clearly state that what your wife is doing is reprehensible. I'm terribly sorry you have to deal with this.

That said, have you thought about speaking with your ex about this? Not your rights or how she's being unfair (since that will just make her feel more justified), but about how your daughter feels about church. Point out that she has friends and is receiving the X benefits from attending (yeah, I'm one of those atheists, so you fill in the blank, lol).

If you stop and have a civil conversation (or have a mutual friend speak to her if she's just too bat-shit crazy to communicate with you) about how your daughter is being negatively affected by her decisions -which are clearly based off of northing more than her perception of your actions - maybe her maternal instincts will override the petty vindictiveness that she's been acting on. I know it's a long shot..... but from your previous post, it seems like she is so focused on holding a grudge against you that she's not thinking about what's best for your daughter. Try to bring her focus back to what's important.

I wish you the best and hope that this situation ends up turning out well for you.

Wargasm6 · 2011-02-05T20:03:50+00:00

No woman is worth this amount of bullshit. Make sure your woman is on the pill or just don't fuck around.

2011-02-05T05:02:59+00:00

mangina? really?

crocodile7 · 2011-02-05T03:57:51+00:00

[permanently deleted]

ArcoJedi · 2011-02-05T03:12:40+00:00

Take your kid to a church service on a different day than Sunday?

I know the Catholic church that I grew up in had a small Saturday night service and a weekday thing. I'm not Catholic now and I'm not saying switch denominations if you are not Catholic, but I wanted to throw the suggestion to you anyway.

My first reaction is to agree with other posters that suggested you not buck the system too hard just to prove a point. The system sucks, but work within it or you will just make things worse.

I'm happily married. But I grew up as my parents divorced when I was 7. Luckily they worked together better than this (most of the time). But keep your relationship with your daughter strong as best you can. Pray with her before bed every night. And keep as much of this personal struggle a secret from her as you can.

moojuece · 2011-02-05T04:08:06+00:00

Where do you live? I am going through some modifications of custody/support at the moment and here in Minnesota my lawyer tells me any changes brought about by my ex after she gets served will be viewed by the courts as retaliatory and basically equate to a pretty big mark in your favor. I know it sucks, but stick this out and stay the course. Record everything. Write down every date, time, save every email and stay within the law. Do everything by the book and make sure anything she does that isn't gets documented.
It sucks and it is hard, but we do win these more than I think people admit. Stay the course, it will be worth it for your daughter.

2011-02-05T04:58:52+00:00

Hey man. I am not going to address the issue at hand because I really don't know what to say about it. My thoughts come from the other side of the equation - my mom demanded a constant stream of money from my dad, or we could not see him. I just wanted to say thanks for putting up with all of this BS. I wish I knew enough about the world to tell my dad this when I was younger. I can't even fathom how he stuck it out so long with my evil mother. I know it is really hard for you right now. It wasn't until I was ~22 that I finally realized what had happened to my dad, and why he wasn't around that much (he was too busy working 24/7 to give my mom money that almost none of which went to the kids). Now I feel like my relationship with my father is quite good. Just realize that if you stick with it, you might end up with a really good relationship with your daughter in the end. I know if my dad had thrown in the towel my life would be a lot worse. I really do appreciate him a lot, even if I didn't understand any of this at all when I was younger.

myevillaugh · 2011-02-05T16:31:31+00:00

I've never used it, but Fathers and Families does have some resources, and referrals to "family law experts in your area". Perhaps they can help you. http://www.fathersandfamilies.org/?page_id=1170

Corvus133 · 2011-02-05T17:20:31+00:00

Utter bullshit - good luck

reccaoconnor · 2011-02-05T02:36:35+00:00

Is your ex a Christian as well? I need to know more about why she doesn't want her going to church before I could say anything else. In my opinion, religious differences make matters like this terribly difficult, regardless of sex issues. They're two very different beasts. If you pick her up Sunday with tickets to Disneyland will she let her go with you?

neoryoko003 · 2011-02-05T03:45:30+00:00

If church falls into your parenting time, she has no right to tell you what to and what not to do with her. If she calls the cops they have no right to take her away from you being that she is under YOUR TIME! I live in Cali, my husband has custody of his daughter. We've had many ups and downs with his baby mama and legal issues as to what we can and can't do and so on and so forth. I know for a fact the cops can't take your child away when she's in your time. Make sure to get a letters from your friends at church that can testify your daughter enjoys going to church with you and that you're a great father to her. I think it's very unfair that our society is set up this way, but even if they try to trump you, keep trying. Who knows you might be That person that helps change society's view on father. And either way it goes, your daughter will appreciate the things you've done and tried to do for her. I know she is young, but as she grows you should make sure she gets to know you for who you are and how much you love her regardless of what they might tell her about you. You might be able to find legal help if you look up the county on the internet, and there are some groups that help FATHERS with these type of legal issues for free. And gratz! I applaud you for being a great dad.

myssn · 2011-02-05T16:48:14+00:00

As a woman, I would just like to say that when I see a man and a young girl together I do not immediately think something creepy is going on. In fact, I think seeing a Father with his young daughter is one of the most precious things in the world. Maybe when people are "looking at you" they are thinking the same thing. I've seen this subject come up a few times on this subreddit and I thought I would just put my thoughts out there.

kloo2yoo · 2011-02-05T01:24:56+00:00

After due consultation with Father, if any dispute, Mother has final decision making authority."

imo, kowtowing to your wife's decision was the best way to avoid a shit-hit-the-fan moment.

So I wasn't sure. I filled out what looked to be the proper paperwork to request a modification. BZZZZZ. Wrong paperwork. Did you know that a clerk of the court can't tell you what paperwork you should fill out to get done what you want to get done?

Friday - Try again. Fill out a different form. Wrong again. Leave dejected. Get back to my office and call the law library. Guess what? The law library can't tell me what paperwork to fill out either. Their suggestion is for me to hire a lawyer to simply tell me what form I need. Fantastic! Good thing I've had this $6000 just sitting here!!

that is so messed up . . .

You're going to church, so make the LORD, as you know Him / Her part of your decision. Does your congregation televise? Could that be a compromise? is it a 'sin' if you avoid church on Sundays or attend other days? you don't owe me these answers, I'm just offering questions.

elminster · 2011-02-05T16:26:39+00:00

"I'm tired of the glares I get when I am at the McDonalds playhouse with my daughter."

Glares for having your daughter with you at McDonald? I spend every Saturday alone with my daughter (not divorced, just giving a SAHM a break) and nobody glares at me. Ever. Why would they? If you were hanging out there without a kid maybe.

"I'm tired of being labeled a perv when I have the short-sightedness to purchase clothing for my 5 year old daughter when she isn't present. God forbid she needs new underwear..."

What? I do all the clothes shopping for my daughter. (I enjoy it more than my wife does). I get my shoes shined at Nordstroms once a week and I always stop at the sales rack to get stuff for my daughter, the sales people think it is the greatest. They have started holding stuff back for me. I have also picked up underwear at Target for her when I notice a sale or a favorite character is in stock. Nobody looks at me strangely.

You are fucking paranoid. Your difficult divorce has left you all jacked up in the head. Don't give a legal proceeding that power. You see your kid and have a relationship with her. That is the key thing. Divorce sucks, but there is no need to let it poison everything.

As far as your divorce. Before you entered into the original divorce agreement did you and your ex discuss the child's religious upbringing? You knew the agreement you consented to allowed your wife final say in the religious upbringing of your child. Was that OK at the time? What changed? This is not about you being able to do thing with your kid, this is about a specific touchy subject that is handled separately in the agreement for that very reason. If you now want it changed, either hire a lawyer or educate yourself. For forty dollars you can buy the same practice guide for your state that the divorce lawyers use when they are working your case. It will have clear explanations and forms you can use to go pro se (no lawyer). Quit your "woe is me I am so persecuted" whining and handle your own shit.

landshrk · 2011-02-05T00:51:43+00:00

Just dont forget how much you care about your daughter, be a father and take her to church, but if your ex goes crazy just stand by your daughter and hopefully she will back you up and say that she wanted to go

wasrackart · 2011-02-05T02:27:00+00:00

very sorry there fella. this is a crushing story. try to stay positive and be the best man you can be that your daughter may know what a good person looks like; maybe she'll be able to recognize it later in life in a significant other.

try not to get a chip on your shoulder that could turn into a boulder and crush you. remember who you are and pay no mind to people who want to assume the worst about you.

i wish i had real, practical advice

RIYWD · 2011-02-05T05:44:24+00:00

As a child who was raised in a similar situation as your daughter, the best advice I can offer is to keep your custody battle strictly between you and your ex. Bringing the child into the clusterfuck in any manner will cause resentment.

MDwannabe · 2011-02-05T12:11:07+00:00

Why is child support at all related to a person's income? (Kind of irrelevant I know, sorry)

fLAWl3ss · 2011-02-05T08:16:12+00:00

I think it's kind of sad that you're putting going to church before your daughter. Let's say there is some legal ramification for what you're doing, instead of having your ex pick her up during your time and going to church alone, why not skip church and go at a later time when she's not there? Does god really give a shit when you go to church?

Jadis · 2011-02-05T09:34:50+00:00

Sorry if this has been asked,

But what does your daughter want? Does she want to go to church? Truly?

qazz · 2011-02-05T13:17:35+00:00

The only power men have left is the power to say no. and stop paying for everything.

rexsilex · 2011-02-05T17:08:18+00:00

If they do arrest you, they won't do it until you come out of the church. Police will not ever infiltrate a place of sanctuary.

annoyedatwork · 2011-02-05T18:55:00+00:00

Unless you're handling snakes, the courts won't rule on exposing kids to religion as it would drag the court into into a case most certainly bound for the appeal process.

(advice from my lawyer during my own custody hearings)

nzeeshan · 2011-02-05T04:28:41+00:00

I think you need to take a stand... God forbid if your cunt wife lies to "your" daughter .. then be prepared to tell your daughter the truth when she gets older. Tell her that you tried everything to be with her but her mom lied and stopped me from seeing you and stopped me from going to church with you among other activities. Tell her the truth, but don't bow down to your wife and her abusive/manipulative behavior. She's manipulating you because she knows you love your daughter a lot.

Also, you need to get in touch with a mother fucken lawyer ... some offer free consultations. Don't waste time talking to para legals at big law firms (they are just sales associates) ... try to get into a free consultation, note down all your questions and ask away.

Also, you need to get in touch with some Men's Rights/Father's rights organization. If you are tired of being looked at in a weird way .. keep a copy of the court order in your pocket among other paper work in case you would need to show to authorities. Also if your wife keeps on doing the abusive stuff and keeps being inconsiderate .. tell her ya you will take her to court and you will get a lawyer and spend your entire time fighting this ... I am sure she doesn't have time or the money to fight all this.

Also don't be afraid to tell the judge that your wife is manipulating and abusing her rights ... don't keep quite about it. Remember, it's better to die like a lion than to live like a jackal.

If your ex calls the cops ... show them the paper work and tell them that hey, you are the father and you are doing nothing outside the court order. On what basis is she going to call the cops?

http://singleparents.about.com/od/legalissues/tp/fathers_rights_organizations.htm

You seem like a decent and caring father ... and I hope that's the truth. If you are some con artist trying to con advice out of us .. then fuck you!

2011-02-05T11:42:42+00:00

Let your daughter think for herself and don't indoctrinate her by taking her to church.

justaverage · 2011-02-05T02:00:36+00:00

So basically, you want to take your daughter to your church, and your wife doesn't want you to take your daughter to your church. Your wife is the primary caretaker, so legally, she gets the final word on the religious upbringing of your child.

How about just going to church when you're not looking after your daughter?

MrLOL · 2011-02-05T01:09:46+00:00

I feel bad for you man. You sound like a good dad. I don't understand why women think they are the alpha when it comes to parenting. A crazy is still a crazy vag or dick. Keep on standing up sir.

pcarvious · 2011-02-05T05:56:42+00:00

I'm not one for churches or activities of that kind. However, your daughter, as was mentioned has friends that are from the church, and of which she probably only sees at the church. She's too young yet to really have a heavy and profound grasp of faith imo. You can refute me if you like on that one. However, friendship is something that most kids that young will readily understand.

be_a_man_already · 2011-02-05T04:41:30+00:00

It is posts like this that make me ashamed of /r/MensRights. This isn't being a man...this is unfocused complaining.

I really don't get how the OP can get so discouraged so quickly...I mean, this is reddit. I think you can pretty much just do a post where you ask reddit which form to fill out. Seriously.

But I wouldn't do that in this situation. In fact, I'd collude with my daughter to hide the fact of attending church. If the ex finds out, just deny it, lie about it, and get the kid to lie about it to her mother.

In fact, if it were me, I'd try to dig up dirt on the ex, find men in similar situations who have gotten what they want out of the legal system, and generally manipulate everyone to get the desired results (except the kid of course, who is going to learn from you how to manipulate everyone else. Manipulating the kid with candy is OK). Sounds like a psycho, right? Wrong. This is what every effective person does. You have to work with the system, keep trying different things until you get good results.

You have to remember that you're working within the confines of a sick system...all systems are sick, it is just a matter of degree and practices used. You either give up or you work with it to get what you want. You need to have expectations, realistic expectations for how much time, energy, and money it will take.

On top of that, I'd go to church and tell your pastor that your ex is trying to keep your little girl out of church. You think he would care? Hell yeah!

qwertisdirty · 2011-02-05T03:59:15+00:00

I would like to take a brief glimpse back in history and guess that you two were a young couple, under 21 when you started the relationship. If I am correct then please respond. Also my advice to anyone else reading this would be to not get anyone pregnant, or become pregnant unless you are completely capable of supporting the child both financially and emotionally.

If this is just some crazy lady, I can understand. But in most cases that sound like this one, all it is usually is stupid kids having stupid kids.

Lastly the reason reddit can't stand religious people is because of their misguided priorities. Like the fact that Christianity views sex as a sin before marriage. This is ridiculous because the majority of the population needs to experiment sexually before they can become truly committed to a life-long relationship.

Again, thanks for reading, please respond.

zau64 · 2011-02-05T02:38:52+00:00

Well hopefully you get one of those crazy fundamentalist judges. You can leverage their insanity to your advantage.

LadyDarkKitten · 2011-02-05T05:21:51+00:00

You're doing the right thing and thats what being a parent is about, doing the right thing for your kids.

Nano_Engineer · 2011-02-05T17:29:43+00:00

Ask your daughter what she wants to do. If she has that much fun at church then she will probably want to go. (more fun than sitting at home doing nothing). If she wants to go and her mother still says no, than that's just a bad mother. Argue for your Childs happiness.

bpbrundage · 2011-02-05T18:52:47+00:00

you can either take your stand for other men while sacrificing your personal life or you can acquiesce to the system so you can get the most out of your relationship with your daughter.

Azorka · 2011-02-05T01:59:34+00:00

Are you sure you know exactly what tl;dr means?

Title	I'm tired...
Author	justaverage
Upvotes	226
Comments	107
Date	February 5, 2011 12:46 AM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/ffj82/im_tired/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/im-tired.1043512 https://theredarchive.com/post/1043512

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