I keep seeing people on the red pill side defending nice guys and the blue pill side calls out the nice guys as being fake nice.

I think these two groups are different. The red pill guys are talking about a specific kind of nice guy, these guys are not gonna rage when rejected. They will reject themselves for you, they are scared to make a move even if they get clues.

Let me explain the traits that I think characterize "Nice guys",

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Nice guys are too agreeable, they are risk-averse, they avoid confrontation, their actions are driven by a combination of Empathy, Fear of Rejection, and weakness. They are clingy, Simps, people pleaser, a male Pick Me, have low Self-esteem, are not assertive, rarely take initiative, and have Insecurity. They don't really like themselves.

When nice guys want something they supplicate, beg, they are true betas who struggle to say no to others, they barely have Boundaries and allow others to mistreat them, they are afraid people will dislike them and they are affected by peer pressure, they tend to be Conformist. They are incapable of being mean, rude, or hurtful even if the other person deserves it. They have a crippling fear of Rejection and this paralyzes them from taking Risks and they avoid Conflict. They shy away from having hard, uncomfortable discussions - Explicit Communication.

They know that logically they are asking for too much, emotionally what they need from relationships and friendships is intense Intimacy that most don't want to provide. They don't value themselves to sit and negotiate and expect the other person to compromise. They would rather give in and be a martyr.

Nice guys finish last is a saying that is popular even outside the Red Pill. Even in popular culture we know how nice guys fare. They tend to be seen as desperate and needy, the Love they feel is very close to an obsession. Nice guys are scared to escalate and even appear creepy, they would rather err on the side of not messing with any sensitive boundary. They Respect women and tend to place them on a pedestal. This means the girls are scared of falling off and have to conform to narrow expectations.

Nice guys can be great friends. They are reliable, trustworthy, they will do you favors, buy you gifts, plan meetups. They hold the value of Reciprocity and expect to be repaid. Their favors are not freely given and usually come with covert Expectations attached. See these people volunteer favors and do things that aren't even asked of them, they enter into covert contracts and decide what is being transacted unilaterally and selfishly without employing Emotional Intelligence.

When they like someone, they first play it too safe being all inhibited, then escalate too quickly to go overboard and come across too strong, hard, or fast. It can feel like they are trying to buy affection with fancy gifts. Nice guys tend to optimistically mistake friendly signals as indicators of romantic interest.

In relationships, they tend to hate to take Initiative. They are not assertive and would rather not take decisions, fearing the Responsibility that comes with it.

They are usually found in nerdy schools and occupations, they are feminine men and over time they grow resentful as they realize how much of a failure they are in the romantic domain. These men are natural Helpers who are drawn to broken girls in an attempt to fix her and through her feel good about themselves. This ends up with him developing negative stereotypes of women and relationships.

Some manage to learn and change, some find women who like them in spite of these qualities, some fall into PUA and Red Pill, some withdraw from this domain and declare that it is not a need - maybe MGTOW or Herbivore men and focus their energies into their career and hobbies - comics, coding, anime, gaming.

Now comes the other definition, the one that blue pill folk conflates with the nice guys. I mean the below guy is a way smaller minority, an asshole.

Not really nice

Some guys just act nice for a while, then the "nice guy" label is used ironically. Some "nice guys" feel an entitlement towards Sex, they are kind and thus are better than those assholes, why can't they get girls is what they think. They don't understand how it is nearly impossible to exit the Friendzone. After developing Intimacy > Emotional Intimacy they face repeated Rejection and thus they grow Resentful.

"Nice guy" is used to call out selfish people, who react aggressively when rejected, this is a different group to the blue pilled guys who cling to idealistic notions of romance and believe women are generally better than men. But there is a small overlap where nice guys do feel offended when they are rejected instead of just moving on.

"Nice guys" often complain about being put in the Friendzone as if it was an insult. True friends value the friendship but can still choose to leave because distance helps them get over their feelings.

One of the famous Gaslighting that society does is claim being nice has a positive effect on attraction. It helps in long-term relationship stability but hurts short-term attraction after a lower threshold than what most people expect.

What do you all think when you see the word "nice guy" being thrown around?