Why is the marriage rate falling?

Thucydides00 · 2022-03-03T13:42:14+00:00

Less people I think are seeing the need to get married, not because they can't find partners, but because there's no longer this social stigma of being unmarried, and because there's not really any huge benefit to being married if you're already in an LTR, it's become much more of a want than a perceived need. And I think people are marrying their partners now only because they want to, its seen as something they can do if they both want, and people like that are much less likely to get divorced.

SwimmingTheme3736 · 2022-03-03T14:07:52+00:00

There is less pressure on women to marry young. We don’t need to be married to move out of our parents homes etc.

There seems less religious pressure too, though could just be in the circles I love in.

LouisdeRouvroy · 2022-03-03T13:24:25+00:00

Divorce and marriage rate are not good in time series when the structure of the population is changing. Those are rates at t time. It means that if less young people are getting married and more older people divorce, then the divorce rate is going up, while marriage rate is going down.

Divorce rate is going down because in the last decades, less people got married, so every year, less people divorce. Marriage rate is going down, because there are less people in the age bracket prime for marriage, and indeed they tend to marry less.

Master__B0b · 2022-03-03T13:41:35+00:00

Divorce rate is falling because marriage rate is falling. The percentage of people still getting married that are extremely dedicated to staying married is larger than it was thrity years ago.

J1ra1y4 · 2022-03-03T13:36:56+00:00

The average age at which people get married is getting older aswell. That kind of indicates that people are putting off settling down until their later years. People nowadays in their 20s either want to Work or "have fun". This extends to the point if someone says they're married with kids at 23 people look at them with surprise. So by the time people are in their mid 30s they are probably prioritizing just finding a relationship over getting married and paying a bunch of money for a Wedding. That's just my opinion though, I could be wrong.

WilliamWyattD · 2022-03-03T14:43:44+00:00

I think anyone looking for a single, silver bullet causal factor is probably approaching this the wrong way. This is likely to be multi-causal.

That said, a primary driver is likely to be a change in the economic characteristics of children. Having and raising children was the primary driver behind monogamy, and the pair bonding instincts humans have. We have conflicting instincts, according to many in fields that study human sexual dynamics. We first have polygamous instincts. Later, we developed some pair bonding instincts as well, which may be the basis for monogamy. It is speculated that the high level of care that human infants had made more paternal investment than polygamy could provide a more optimal solution. Others have suggested this accompanied some change, like humans walking upright, such that women didn't carry children on their backs the same way, making the infants more encumbering.

More recently, with advances in medical technology, more children survive. We literally cannot have as many children as we used to or the population would truly explode. Birth control lets us separate sex and reproduction, letting us choose how many children to have. And the move to more advanced industrial lives from a more agricultural setting, changes the economic value of children.

Where once a child was providing some return on investment by 6 or 7, and breaking even by 10 or so, now children need more education to be productive. They simply consume resources until a much later age. Other changes mean that children in the more developed nations are not the retirement program they used to be. So children went from economic necessities, to psychological luxuries--and many adults found they could live without that luxury, or that one child scratched that itch, with serious diminishing returns setting in after that on the psychological reward front.

There are many other reasons for less children, but these are probably the core ones. The need to work together to provide for children, and to provide male and female role models to children, is probably the main driver in forcing men and women to cooperate and compromise on their differences in the ways needed to stay together for long periods. Without kids, everything is a lot more fluid, and a fixed contract like marriage seems to make less sense.

HalfysReddit · 2022-03-03T14:18:34+00:00

I can think of two primary reasons:

The option of not marrying is available to way more people. Economic and social pressures still make it a non-starter for most but it's much more available than it used to be.
The option of ending a bad marriage with divorce is way more available. Divorce has always been an option, but no-fault divorce is relatively recent and so is women earning their own livelihoods.

In the end, marriage is a social construct that more of us bought into fifty years ago than really wanted to, and now that the option of not buying into it is becoming more practical, more and more people are choosing that option.

StarchRunner · 2022-03-03T13:45:14+00:00

So I am curious, for men here who would like kids in an ideal world. What exactly is the reason you avoid marriage?

I saw my uncles and brothers in miserable marriages and then my friends. Most got divorced. It's probably a generation older than the surveys.

There is absolutely nothing in it in this culture for men. The most I get is normie-foos trying to convince me how super awesome it is and how I should get married. When I list my awesome life and then ask what's in it for me, they get nasty and resort to fear/uncertainty/doubt like that I will die alone, as the good little bible thumpers they are.

KillaKyleKlan · 2022-03-03T14:01:41+00:00

Why are we just allowed to divorce without a legitimate reason?

Pidjesus · 2022-03-03T13:55:56+00:00

Lack of religious/cultural pressure to marry, sex before marriage is normalised completely almost and marriage is very expensive

Sandshrew922 · 2022-03-03T14:12:37+00:00

I think marriage rates are down for a handful of reasons. Women have more options than ever in terms of employment opportunities and potential partners, which gives them the ability to wait until the right person comes along or abstaining in general. They don't have to get married to secure financial stability and survive anymore.

Men see horror stories about dead bedrooms and nasty divorces so they seem less ecstatic about essentially gambling their assets on something as fickle as romantic feelings.

Pair those 2 phenomena together and you'll see a drop in marriages, a drop in marriages means a drop in divorces.

EDIT: as for kids, there's a pretty steep financial barrier (at least in the US) to my knowledge, and the added strain on the bank account and relationship might make the juice not worth the squeeze. Kids complicate everything, so if your life and relationship aren't rock solid, marriage and kids are fairly large risks.

Maleficent_West5812 · 2022-03-03T13:36:23+00:00

Marriage rate is falling because of a lack of "economically attractive" men.

relish5k · 2022-03-03T14:21:03+00:00

The marriage rate is dropping because:

Lower social pressure for marriage. It is no longer socially engrained ideal, mandated as a gateway to proper adulthood. The rise of the divorce rate since the 1970s has likely contributed to this. Marriage is no longer needed to secure women's economic livelihood, nor is it a social requirement for children (though it helps). Marriage is more of a "nice to have"
Growing income inequality means people are poorer. Weddings are expensive. Marriage is more socially valued in higher income brackets. Some people want to wait to get married until they feel financially stable to embark on the subsequent milestones such as parenthood and homeownership, which are expensive.

I don't think TRP, a small fringe movement, has much to do with it.

I generally agree that divorce isn't necessarily a shortcut to happiness, but the data don't necessarily bare out your conclusions. One can assume that people who get divorced are in unhappier marriages, and if they were to stay in the "stay married" pool they would be unhappier 5 years down the line than their counterparts who chose out of their own volition to stay married. It is also possible that there is a "z factor" - people who get divorced are somehow inherently wired towards unhappiness, and that this wiring leads them to both get divorced and be unhappy (just as others would argue that marriage doesn't make people happier, but that happier people are more likely to gravitate towards marriage)

DrBoby · 2022-03-03T13:30:57+00:00

Statistic is dumb and misleading. It's not the divorces per marriages that decreases, it's the divorces per population.

You can only divorce if you are married, if no one is married, no one can divorce...

I, and men generally, avoid marriage because it's useless. Women can divorce when they want since the 70', 40% chance to lose half what you posses and 20% chance to pay alimony. For what advantage ? 5% less tax ? Not worth at all.

Siukslinis_acc · 2022-03-03T13:28:12+00:00

So people who are getting married are staying married increasingly. Why are they staying married? Fear of losing wealth? losing custody?

Because they get married when they are ready and often have lived together for years, so when they marry, they know that the relationship will be long term (I mean it already survived years).

There is lower social preassure to get married, so those people who really want to get maried get married. And those who don't can live freely without getting married.

cowboob · 2022-03-03T13:29:01+00:00

Women waiting out for a prince that will never come.

Radiant_Specific6542 · 2022-03-03T14:06:13+00:00

The marriage rate is falling because the juice is not worth the squeeze for men. Why risk your money, assets, and way of living? There's virtually zero benefit.

As for divorce rates, previous comparison is skewed because there's less marriages.

DrinkItInMan11 · 2022-03-03T14:10:43+00:00

I wouldn't get married for the simple fact that there's no beneficial results from being married and a man, there's no reason as a man to get married, you ultimately just get fucked over and become miserable, maybe lucky getting sex once a year. Fucking the same woman for the rest of my life sounds depressing too, no variety or spice.

The negatives far outweigh the positives with marriage for men. Marriage benefits women, not men.

Return_of_Hoppetar · 2022-03-03T13:40:11+00:00

Not a response to your question, but I think you are going by wrong premises.

People marrying older (up to a point) have lower divorce rates. People dating longer have lower divorce rates. Both of these have become more common. People are now free not to marry at all, so those who do are probably more secure in their choice.

I'm in Europe; I don't know about the US, but divorce rates here are lower for higher socioeconomic strata and for the well educated, who are also typically those who marry late (though I can't tell you whether these are independent factors for marriage success).

cx456f · 2022-03-03T14:58:04+00:00

divorce does not make them happier.

My divorce definitely made me happier. But I think it’s rare for both parties to be happier. One or the other maybe, but rarely do I hear both sides from the same divorce gained happiness. More often one party is very much aggrieved by the situation, or their bad decisions led directly to the divorce happening, and they are not happy about it. So I would imagine it’s hard to increase average happiness through divorce.

Matt_Door · 2022-03-03T15:13:41+00:00

I’d like to see the marriage rates compared to wage growth/stagnation and rise in housing cost and personal debt. I’d wager it would go far to explain the decline in marriage

Baron_Semedi_ · 2022-03-03T15:19:11+00:00

I don't subscribe to the blue pill or red pill shit. All I know is there is nothing to be gained by getting married. I haven't heard a single good reason for it. I can give and get everything i want without it. It's a waste of time and money.

heyitsjeapeagain · 2022-03-03T13:28:16+00:00

Fewer females are looking to meet someone. This has been a long-term trend so I wouldn’t get too carried away pointing to anything that happened recently.

343_peaches_and_tea · 2022-03-03T14:36:12+00:00

Culture mostly.

One example is societies feelings about out of marriage births.

In the 1930s, half of all unmarried pregnant women in the United States married before giving birth, according to U.S. Census data. As premarital sex and out-of-wedlock childbearing became more common, rates of shotgun marriage dropped sharply. By the second half of the 2000s, only 6 percent of unmarried pregnant woman married before giving birth, according to government figures.

That's such a different culture to the one we know now. It used to be that if you slept with a girl, she got pregnant. She would have good grounds to say "you know we need to get married now" and he would agree.

None of this forever girlfriend "I'm not sure" BS. It's off to the church tomorrow before the baby pops.

oedipascourage · 2022-03-03T15:21:38+00:00

Even though economic factors has an effect on such attempt, the deciding factor is living in relatively individualistic society providing various other "self-actualization" methods.

modidlee · 2022-03-03T16:28:55+00:00

Marriage is becoming a practice of higher class people. And when you have higher class people with investments, properties, inheritances, etc, they’re more likely to stay together to protect those assets. That doesn’t mean they’re happily married though.

Agreeable-Fruit-5112 · 2022-03-03T18:36:07+00:00

Mainly because the millenial and zoomer generations saw their parents all get divorced and end up hating each other. Also, nobody under 40 has any money. Even if you busted your ass at a top-level school, got a graduate degree (in my case, a PhD) and make at least $100k, you still can't afford a house. At least in the US or Canada. And that's at age 30-40. Previous generations could have a family at age 22. That family might have fallen apart later, but they still weren't in the position of "just starting out in life" at 35-40.

Those in my generation couldn't "start" life until we were in our 30s. That is how long it took to reach even a modicum of financial stability after school, school, school and more school. And by then, it's too late to have kids.

And let's not forget that social media and online dating are creating an entire population of lonely, isolated and severely depressed people living life vicariously through digital personalities. Continuous, endless FOMO.

Lateralanouncer · 2022-03-03T18:39:58+00:00

Why are men complaining they can't find wiverly women? Why are men stating they don't want to wife hoes? And the age thing.

sunkized · 2022-03-03T20:06:34+00:00

Both of my grandparents got married at 17. My grandpa had his own house at 18. That's unheard of now

djblackmith · 2022-03-03T14:13:40+00:00

Culture. Marriage has long been a religious institution. Religion in the west is diminishing from what I have seen so the institutions that came along with it (i.e marriage) are also going down. It should come as no surprise. I mean I leave in a Christian conservative country and we have state sponsored marriage counseling programs and other systems (like courts) to support the institution but I have seen none in the west. For marriage (and healthy marriages for that fact) to thrive and be sustained it needs to be neutered but you're not doing that.

A big mistake a lot of people on this sub (and liberal people in general) make is they think they can that they can create/sustain a moral/communal fabric system as well as institution that are good and benefit society without a strong almost religious institution (like the church) but you just cant. Its why the less religious a society becomes the more communistic it becomes. Which is why Communist states try to ban religion as much as possible.

afkawayrn · 2022-03-03T14:17:11+00:00

Why would you get married when the chance of it failing us almost 50%, not saying it is exactly that but it’s damn near close. And than add on top of that you have a high chance of losing half your wealth if you were smart and saved it up.

I’d argue at this day and age there is literally 0 reason for a man to get married. Youre just handing over the very small amount of leverage you had and will I’m turn lose all power in the relationship. And during a time when nearly all women are masculine and want to be the man of the house, you’re just asking for failure.

If a women leads the relationship she will lead it all right, right to the end of the relationship

Kilatypus · 2022-03-03T14:58:23+00:00

Marriage is allowing the Government to meddle in your personal affairs, and we live in a gynocentric society that prioritizes women's needs exponentially more than men's. The numerous amount of stories of men downtrodden after divorce court is a pattern men are adapting from.

It's like asking a man to step on a landmine and be happy that he has to keep his leg in place or else he will blow his leg off. It's smarter to not step on that landmine at all.

Mark_Freed · 2022-03-03T13:51:40+00:00

[permanently deleted]

goneaway2thewind · 2022-03-03T14:23:00+00:00

To reach parity on the factors considered for marriage, security must be established. We are economically, psychologically and socially insecure and in a volatile place. In times of prosperity and peace, marriages increase, but with so many deterrents on these things relationships fail to reach that point. This social regression is a human indicator of the times.

majani · 2022-03-03T14:39:05+00:00

Marriage was created to solve two societal problems: 1. broke single mothers 2. incels left behind by women's taste for top men

It was an inelegant solution and birth control solved both problems in a much more elegant way. That's why marriage is on the decline. A lot of people can't see the logic behind it in a world with birth control. Of course a thing as widespread as marriage will always have some inertia going for it since most people are NPCs who just follow along with traditions blindly, so marriage will never go down to zero

bondcola007 · 2022-03-03T14:42:47+00:00

The reason why the divorce rate declining is because the marriage rate is also declining.

Less marriage = Less divorce

MrHipcoin · 2022-03-03T14:52:46+00:00

Less marriages will usually leave those who are more ideologically adherent to some religious garb or prisoner spouses

Fluffy-Height-3460 · 2022-03-03T15:49:38+00:00

We all know why, it's going to get worst before it gets better

AlienFix · 2022-03-03T15:58:03+00:00

Fear of loosing my daughter

RealNiceLady · 2022-03-03T16:06:10+00:00

Hookup culture

src670 · 2022-03-03T17:16:09+00:00

Divorce rates are falling due to Marriage rates falling. Simple stats game.

Apocalypstik · 2022-03-03T17:16:45+00:00

A lot of people are waiting longer to get married and it’s become more acceptable (in some regions) to cohabit. So it seems when people are getting married—they’re more likely to have made a solid decision about it (yes yes I know about outliers).

On the anecdotal end. I was married at 34; husband at 45–first marriage. We both knew each other for years before even dating. We were married for practical reasons too—because it benefits us financially and by means of my healthcare plan.

-Giga- · 2022-03-03T22:53:54+00:00

Its funny how men online have been congregating for years be it purposely (manosphere) or happenstance of innocent leisure (locker rooms. Gaming chats)

Did u think women would not use the same tools over time

Men really said "no girls on the internet"

Women still primarily connect with their friends offline but its always been a robust offline social network and family sharing messages. We were efficient and Amish.

Lol Covid happened. Even non believers found TikTok and other spaces women can connect.

The democratization of unsilenced female voices loosened information past Twitter and talk shows and brunch. Even the shyest girl can connect some dots and amaze online.

Marriage has dropped not only bc of economy. Men have been showing their ass the past 10 years online in malicious scary ways.

Women are getting pink pilled against their will.

Im well connected offline, nevermind what Im building online and yeah. Getting married to a man that scammed u into hell no longer has the cachet it used to.

Even if u think im lying, please reference Japan, China, Korea, India. Reference anyone who believed in men and has internet access.

I was the biggest, uber christian believer in men, no questions asked. I dont hate yall. But there is a reason im good at what I do.

Men are a dissapointment. Women dont need MGTOW'S lifes work of "juice aint worth the squeeze"

The stats speak for themselves

CriticalEscapeBike · 2022-03-03T23:39:37+00:00

In 1992 there were 256 million people in the US. (I'm using one country's numbers for ease of discussion).

in 2016, there were 323 million people.

That's 26% more people.

If fewer people got married, AND you had a 26% bump in population, the mathematical result would always be: fewer divorces per 1,000 people / population.

That has less than zero to do with the % of marriages that fail(ed).

In that environment, at that rate of population increase, the number of divorces per 1,000 people could easily decrease, while divorces increased exponentially.

(It's math).

Ian_Campbell · 2022-03-04T00:17:53+00:00

The divorce rate per population doesn't matter. You cannot conflate that with the divorce per marriage rate. It could be the case that it is also falling, but it could also be that this is an artifact of so mant fewer new marriages.

Medical-Tap8190 · 2022-03-05T05:04:29+00:00

My reason to avoid marriage is just that I don’t view it as a romantic gesture. It’s not the end all be all happy ending we wanted from the Disney movies and romance films. It’s work. No one that I’ve ever seen said it’s the greatest thing. I’m convinced humans aren’t meant to be around each other for so long. Why don’t you hear more successful marriage stories? Someone wasn’t getting what they wanted after marriage, they turned to a different person after we got married, something switches off after the ceremonies and reception. As a child of divorce, I watched both my parents have something snarky or rude to say about the other, and I wondered how’s they get together in the first place. Marriage seems like it’s more for the women to get out of working, why’s it that women get majority of the money, belongings, and custody out of divorce settlement when they weren’t the breadwinners? Most men want to be with their kids, but someone’s gotta keep the house running, keep food on the table, take care of everyone. And Im not bashing just the women, the men who don’t pull their weight are trash also. But I’m speaking on the aftermath of these relationships, the post situation. Prenups are treated as offensive to women, yet the money they feel entitled to they had no part in the growth or expansion of wealth. If both parties can be civil in supportive, but there’s too many bad stories to list that deter me from looking at someone and deciding to go that route; I don’t know what their true intentions are or if they’re just here for financial gain

Frosty-Gate-8094 · 2022-03-05T18:25:54+00:00

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/marriage-divorce.htm#:~:text=Divorce%20rate%3A%202.7%20per%201%2C000,45%20reporting%20States%20and%20D.C.)

This the raw data.
6.1/1000 marriages vs 2.7/1000 divorces.
That's about 45%.
There is a link which shows rates from 2000-2019, marriage rates have fallen from 8.0 to 6.1 (25% fall). Divorce rates have fallen from 3.8 to 2.7 (28% fall).

There is no fall in divorce rates. They have been more or less constant since last 20 years. What has fallen is marriage rates. The proportion of marriages that end in divorce has remained steady at 45-50%.

The absolute decrease in divorces per 1000 population, is due to fall in marriage rates.

As the old saying goes ' the best way to prevent a divorce is to never get married'

masochisticanalwhore · 2022-03-06T06:27:51+00:00

Isn't this related to SES? Only the wealthiest bother to marry?

Jonesw16 · 2022-03-03T14:32:55+00:00

Most people only marry as they're afraid of being alone and its a societal expectation, not because of love.

gimpgirl555 · 2022-03-03T13:20:12+00:00

No virgin brides.

/thread.

CatoftheBanals · 2022-03-03T18:30:39+00:00

People get married mostly to create a stable nuclear family unit, that is how it's always been.

People are having fewer kids or not having them at all for many reasons, including climate change, angst over the state of the world, financial uncertainty, the insane expense of college with no guarantee of a job after, etc.

There is something called the happiness dip in your 30s/middle age, usually when kids are little. Your happiness goes down, then it rises again, which may account for the 5 years later figure for married people.

I think it's hard to study happiness in married vs. unmarried people because people might be unhappy for a load of external factors. If you're an alcoholic in one city, moving to another won't change that. If you're married but depressed and anxious over money, your child's future, your job, your aging parents...then getting divorced isn't going to remove all those stressors. Or it might remove one (eg, your wife spending too much) but add others (eg, your kid adjusting to divorce badly). Unless one partner is cheating or there is a very acute problem specifically linked to your partner's personality that is driving every other problem, you're not likely to find a drastic improvement in life once you divorce because the same shit will still be there.

Slyfer_Seven · 2022-03-03T14:04:21+00:00

Marriage is probably one of the few things left in the cushioned and coddled spaces a lot of men find themselves in that still has actual consequences if it fails and can't be fully controlled by one (their) side

Naturally, it is to be avoided at all costs to keep things in line with the rest of the disposable, half committed aspects of their lives where they've convinced themselves they're at least in control...

LateralThinker13 · 2022-03-03T16:16:45+00:00

TRP seems to warn men against marriage. They point to divorce rates but if you look at the trends,

CHECK YOUR SOURCES. Most places look at divorces per thousand PEOPLE, not per thousand MARRIAGES. The number of marriages has been steadily declining; from 10.9 in 1972 to 6.5 in 2018. That means there are a LOT fewer marriages out there. So saying the divorce rate is dropping overall, instead of measuring the divorce rate just in the married population (which is steadily shrinking), paints an incorrect picture.

So I am curious, for men here who would like kids in an ideal world. What exactly is the reason you avoid marriage?

Your question answers itself. Kids are the only reason that marriage is remotely appealing. Without wanting kids, there's zero incentive to marry and plenty not to do so.

logiauser · 2022-03-03T14:48:41+00:00

Simple. Women's standards are too high (they are not looking for equivalent men) and the risks far outweigh the rewards for men.

There's no meeting in the middle. It's going to get much worse. I expect that 6.5/1000 number (from 2019) to dip below 6.

_-One4All-_ · 2022-03-03T16:49:06+00:00

Family court favors the woman. Outcomes speak for themselves.
Social media and dating apps have overinflated the average woman’s sexual market value to the point that average women think they deserve top percentile men who naturally exploit the situation
Women can now maintain themselves so they dont feel a strong need for a man
Sexual liberation has psychologically traumatized many people who were not wired to have so many partners and cannot move on from the past.

Classic_Head3437 · 2022-03-03T14:53:23+00:00

There's no real benefit to marriage anymore. Women can't cook. Women think traditional gender roles going away just means they don't have to do anything. "Men" force their gfs to compete with video games for attention. "Men" already take a huge risk with their finances and child custody. Joint taxes is the only real benefit.

Yeezus_aint_jesus · 2022-03-03T15:23:38+00:00

I want to get married, but not until im in my mid to late 20s at the latest. The financial aspect, mental development, and overall life experiences I believe you should obtain ahead of time are key. My Serious gf and I broke up because she was essentially forcing marriage after two years together(23). She wanted to stay home, and have kids within a year. I saw her brother, and dad who did the same and were miserable in their relationships. I just couldn’t do that.

sarkington · 2022-03-03T16:12:45+00:00

Marrying later, economic hardship, lack of suitable partners

ihopeitsnormal · 2022-03-03T16:15:47+00:00

Marriage is trash. If you haven't seen that, you must live in a bubble

CFinCanada · 2022-03-03T16:31:29+00:00

Statistically, live-in boyfriends do more housework than husbands. We certainly are no exception, my man does half. I am under his work benefits under a spousal plan even though we never had the wedding as Canada allows this for cohabiting couples. And I don't want kids. It's not broken so I see no need to fix things. I think many others are the same way, they are living more authentically and being true to themselves. If they don't want a conventional suburban life with the white picket fence, they just opt out of it.

Ohmaygahh · 2022-03-03T16:43:47+00:00

It's multifactorial.

But i think the biggest reason that moves the needle is:

What's the point of marriage?

EstablishmentKooky50 · 2022-03-03T17:24:26+00:00

Marriage rates are on the decline and divorce rates are increasing since the industrial revolution and took a nose dive from the 1960-s. The single most significant driving factor for both is the invention of the birth control pill. Women now do not need men, and men do not need women either from the socioeconomical standpoint.

mrreal01 · 2022-03-03T18:16:43+00:00

I think a lot of men are realizing there is no benefit to getting married anymore and there is only negatives.

JameisBong · 2022-03-03T18:47:00+00:00

Women make just as much as men, they prioritize careers first and lastly easy access to top tier chads makes it harder for women to want to settle down with the average man

Wildhouse83 · 2022-03-03T15:00:40+00:00

Would you chose to work for an employer who can fire you randomly, yet you still have to keep working for years without salary? Oh, and if you have kids, they will be taken away from you as well.

That basically is marriage from a mans perspective.

hemaristhysbe · 2022-03-03T15:02:27+00:00

Most people who have time for TRP are usually educated, middle class or up.

Cite?

purplish_possum · 2022-03-03T15:45:04+00:00

for men here who would like kids in an ideal world. What exactly is the reason you avoid marriage?

You don't need government approval and a priest's blessing to have kids.

TheRealMekkor · 2022-03-03T16:10:59+00:00

I think there's a lot that goes into the marriage decline and it's difficult to say it's because of any singular issue. But I believe the decline also furthers the decline. More children being raised in single parent households furthering it to be more accepted or normative rather.

Women are hypergamous by nature and more women earning more degrees paying $50-60K annually they want men that earn the same or more as well as being physically attractive.

Men don't typically care what women earn, I've never looked at a women with attraction and wondered what her finances and lifestyle were.

Someone did mention college isn't valuable in this thread and I'd say yes/no. Typically the degrees women find interesting social sciences, criminal justice, art, humanities are worthless in terms of economics but provide a societal value. STEM fields still pay better than the non- educated related fields.

The sad thing is STEM credits cost as much as humanities. But the profit for price is easy different.

reeko12c · 2022-03-03T16:12:52+00:00

There's no incentives to get married and its an unnecessary risk even with a prenup. Question is, why do it? It's pointless.

Crushed_95 · 2022-03-03T16:33:35+00:00

Because dudes are waking up to see that it is a bad deal.

Redbitsux · 2022-03-03T16:59:35+00:00

People have fucking obscene standards now. It's not enough to look average and be earning above average anymore even. Even normal dating feels like you're being constantly tested on how perfect you are, it's like you're an experiment and you know you're going to fail 90% of the time. The energy and emotional drain ain't worth it from a heterosexual man's perspective.

Laytheblameonluck · 2022-03-03T17:45:16+00:00

The marriage rate is falling because of sex, women lose interest in sex in long term relationships and men do not want to sacrifice sex for marriage.

jayval90 · 2022-03-03T18:47:30+00:00

So I am curious, for men here who would like kids in an ideal world. What exactly is the reason you avoid marriage?

Divorce isn't a mutual proposition. 30% chance of divorce is still ridiculously high, especially considering the well-documented fact that 80% of divorces are initiated by women. That means that the divorce rate would drop to 18% if women divorced at the same rate men did.

All that your study proves is that these women are completely stupid for divorcing, because it turns out that things will probably get better if you stay and probably stay bad if you leave. That doesn't change the fact that a sizable percentage of women will make things a living hell for you.

1 in 4 isn't much better than 1 in 3 or 1 in 2 when the consequences are literally a life of living hell. Heck I wouldn't be comfortable if women and men divorced at the same rate and the odds she divorces you were 1 in 10. Yeah that's more reasonable, but the consequences of losing that bet are so extreme it would destroy me. 90% isn't good enough when the stakes are so high.

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Stunning-Potato-1984 · 2022-03-03T14:07:47+00:00

I don't think there is any evidence to suggest that TRP men are middle class or above, it's likely their parents were, setting up certain expectations for them, but I see a lot of men here who are not well off and expect to never be.

freespirit1963TJ · 2022-03-03T14:13:03+00:00

I don't like reading statistics, so the question that comes to mind is, are marriage numbers decreasing?

DillonTheFatUglyMale · 2022-03-03T14:28:32+00:00

The economy is rough this is why

Mimoxs · 2022-03-03T19:35:28+00:00

People getting married later in life = people being more discriminate and marrying someone they are actually long term compatible with

We don't have the "two naive hormone-fueled 20 year olds getting married on a whim and realizing they are incompatible soon after" thing much anymore. People marrying older is people marrying wiser.

In particularly religious places, you still see a lot of kids marrying young bc they just want to have sex. And then they end up in bitter marriages who hate each other by 25.

ruboyuri · 2022-03-03T19:44:27+00:00

Since women entered the workforce? Because it’s no longer necessary

In the past 10-20 years? “The economy, stupid”

Rispy_Girl · 2022-03-03T20:17:20+00:00

Because the generation that is currently if an adult marriage age was taught that marriage isn't valuable. So if you get married you have to really care and be long term committed. If you didn't feel that way is easier to coast as bf and gf. You no longer need marriage to live together, have sex, or have kids. There are even incentives to not marry with kids because you can get better benefits as a single mom.

LingonberryMental · 2022-03-03T21:44:49+00:00

Don’t bother, being single is much better as let’s face it. How many marriages have you seen that are successful? Barely 1 or 2 in my life so far.

WholeCelebration4567 · 2022-03-03T22:13:03+00:00

Because men keep getting taken advantage of and we’re just now realizing it

IcarusKiki · 2022-03-04T00:37:31+00:00

bc people are delaying life milestones

Fit-Faithlessness149 · 2022-03-04T01:33:47+00:00

I think marriage is falling amongst the general population or secular. The religious are still going to want to get married and are more likely to stick it out. Also the wealthier you are the more likely you are to get married and stick it out. So the fact that divorce rates are falling is only a symptom of the fact that the kinds of people that are continuing to marry are the ones who are at least likely to divorce.

jamesbwbevis · 2022-03-04T04:00:53+00:00

Because average women don't want average men

Hampton_Isles · 2022-03-04T05:30:11+00:00

Y’all are just ugly.

clockworkshining · 2022-03-04T09:06:20+00:00

While I think a lot the red pill catchphrases are laughable the one about buying the cow when milk if free comes to mind

Willow-girl · 2022-03-04T12:30:54+00:00

In America the marriage rate has dropped slightly in the upper classes, but it's tanked among the working class and the poor, because they would lose too many of their government benefits if they got married and combined their income with their partner's. About one in 5 Americans receives some kind of government bennie (mostly commonly SNAP) so this affects a lot of people.

spunkystoic · 2022-03-04T13:05:18+00:00

For me, as an unattractive guy, the way I've been treated by women I was romantically interested in has shown me all I need to know about marriage. I've really seen the dark side in that regard.

As a result, I think even if I was a bit "luckier" in dating, I would still be very wary of marriage.

oyxyjuon · 2022-03-03T19:59:15+00:00

feminism

daddysgotanew · 2022-03-03T17:04:54+00:00

Men aren’t interested in losing all of what they have, whether it be a lot or a little; and women aren’t really interested in anyone except the top 10 percent of men in looks and status

That’s it….no more complicated than that

gigisee2928 · 2022-03-03T17:13:23+00:00

It’s just not a good deal. Why should I do it lol?

masterdarthrevan · 2022-03-03T17:30:30+00:00

Because marriage is old, only old ppl get married, marriage isn't cool, it's got a bad rap, and really no wonder! I didn't read pretty much anything beyond the initial question of why is failing. I have no statistics to back me up and really it doesn't matter because this is my opinion from my lived experiences.

Alternative lifestyles were frowned upon and now they are growing.--(swinging, polyamory) Ppl live longer and are starting to realize they don't want to spend an eternity with the same person, ppl like variety. Fuck buddies are easier than ever to get and are less maintenance. Why would I bother being in a relationship, they are messy, complicated and take more work.

Also we live in a throwaway society, especially for girls - don't like your man? Throw him out and get a new one by -- like -- tomorrow. Men just are not having it anymore, and don't like being treated like trash by over entitled women who throw them away, while they do most of the " romantic " work and or spend money on women where it goes no further than 1 date... Etc I could go on about both sides but I think the issues --marriage-- is having are glaringly obvious.

Title	Why is the marriage rate falling?
Author	Mark_Freed
Upvotes	101
Comments	430
Date	March 3, 2022 1:11 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/t5ra90/why_is_the_marriage_rate_falling/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-is-the-marriage-rate-falling.1104352 https://theredarchive.com/post/1104352

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