~ archived since 2018 ~
~ archived since 2018 ~
| Upvotes | Comment on | Subreddit | Date (UTC) |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | "Women find it easier to survive, men find it easier to thrive"Those are the male advantages. But despite those, women seem to be kicking the shit out of men in education and slowly economically. So something is up. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 03:10 PM |
| 3 | Discouraging men from approaching women perpetuates a culture in which only the least desirable men approachGoing in mixed groups was always best for me. Merge groups. Let women be the vanguard in doing that. Female wingmen for the win! | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 03:02 PM |
| 1 | Men adapt to women's needs therefore women are the problemMaybe. I dont really care much about these issues from a personal or individual standpoint. You do your best and see what happens. Not much else you can do. But the society level implications are very interesting to me. The sorting mechanisms we have are only so efficient, so most people will never find their best possible matches. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 02:34 PM |
| 1 | Men adapt to women's needs therefore women are the problemI would hope that what you say is true. I would hope individual variance is high here. But there is a possibility that despite individual variance, there are strong patterns. That would be bad. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 02:28 PM |
| 1 | Men adapt to women's needs therefore women are the problemA deeper and open question is that even the men who want burning desire may be going too far and asking for the impossible. It may be that for women, regardless of her own level and whether she is evenly matched, there is only a certain level of raw desire they tend to get to with less attractive partners. It could be that the super enthusiastic sex and desire is primarily for very attractive men and always has been. Some exceptions, of course. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 02:11 PM |
| 1 | "Women find it easier to survive, men find it easier to thrive"actually whether women have a Big 5 personality advantage in conscientiousness is debated, and if they do it is small. Women also seem to lean more orderliness (subtype) while men more industrious. But agreeableness may factor in. And men can likely be put off their conscientiousness by temptation and addiction more easily than women., | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 02:09 PM |
| 1 | "Women find it easier to survive, men find it easier to thrive"Yeah, there is a hard developmental advantage early. But beyond that, women seem better able to be diligent about doing regular boring grunt work. More able to stay focused in a classroom and not be disruptive. Easier to work in groups. And then women are less prone to destructive temptations like drugs, porn, etc. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 01:37 PM |
| 11 | Discouraging men from approaching women perpetuates a culture in which only the least desirable men approachAll true. But I understand the confusion if you look at the bar scene from 70s through 2010s or so. Some guys think this was all good for everyone and a golden age. Not sure how women felt. And yeah, cold approaches in the day time in public places. Those were never a super common thing overall. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 01:09 PM |
| 2 | "Women find it easier to survive, men find it easier to thrive"Thing is, if those are also the conditions of work now, shouldn't education conditions match? That's the real problematic part with male underperformance now vs. female underperformance in the past. Conceptually, females were an easy fix. Not necessarily true for males. What if women are just better adapted to the world we are making right now, at least at the median? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 12:48 PM |
| 3 | The internet was the worst invention for men in our society.I think that until we learn to properly control our technology use and addiction I'd rather be back in 1994. The psychic costs of the Internet all around greatly outweigh the material benefits. For either gender. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 12:16 PM |
| 3 | "Women find it easier to survive, men find it easier to thrive"I dunno about that. Maybe referring to male variability in that the worst men are more numerous and worse than the worst women, but the top men are also more numerous and more capable. In general, the relevant literature suggests boys and men are more fragile than women in terms of needing the right structure to develop properly and then behave productively and morally as adults. So to the extent society is going to shit, it will hurt men more. And maybe when everything is in place, even median … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 12:04 PM |
| 2 | "Women find it easier to survive, men find it easier to thrive"I'm not sure. The psychic atmosphere matters. For example, in the 1980s and 1990s, the turnaround in female education was all about changing expectations and basically psychological conditions for girls. Right now, those conditions are horrible for young men. But, here is the darker question that troubles me: Maybe in this case there is justification for for the current state of affairs. A lot of these traits that are more male-typical might be things we do want suppressed. As men in the manosph… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 11:59 AM |
| 1 | Men adapt to women's needs therefore women are the problemI dunno. Because another manosphere trend of thought is that men have figured out that women will feign attraction and choose guys for stability or money, and men want not part of that. They want to make sure she has true desire for them. The manosphere at this point is by no means coherent. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 11:52 AM |
| 2 | The internet was the worst invention for men in our society.The Internet hurts men more. No doubt. But it ain't doing women any favors either. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 11:46 AM |
| 51 | Discouraging men from approaching women perpetuates a culture in which only the least desirable men approachI think nobody has fully thought this through. But historically you didn't approach strange women without mediation unless you wanted the shit kicked out of you. Or there were certain occasions with set rules. The bar scene for several decades may have been an unsustainable aberration. Not sure. It's true that women do seem to want there to be these venues where the right guy can approach them in the right way for that woman, and the men are supposed to automatically know all of it. That won't w… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 11:45 AM |
| -1 | Women on this sub apply the just world fallacy far too often when it comes to sexThe point you are missing is that people have very different priors here. The people saying that Incels are all gross tend to believe that not much has changed in the dating market. Women haven't become more selective, and Incels are the normal larger group of males at the bottom of the SMP who are there for a reason. Guys saying these incels are not that bad believe the opposite about the facts on the ground. If you think 50% of men or something are incels, then yeah, it is likely that a lot of… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 10:47 AM |
| 1 | The only reason why men and women aren't understanding each other is cause both of them are in different phases in datinghaha No. The point is that they are presenting themselves as emblematic of a certain SMV that in fact they do not have. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 10:32 AM |
| 1 | If “your league is what you can get” then women are shooting too high for guys they can only get for casual sexAre most women in relationships shit, too? Or are relationships in general shit? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 10:32 AM |
| 1 | "Autistic women are less likely to be single because they're better at masking" No, it's because gender roles expect men to be far more socially adept in datingThat is one study. One that we still do not understand how the math works on. I am very concerned by some of the data, but it is by no means consistent or definitive. For example, it is unclear how gendered all of this is. Some studies seem to point to just general social alienation with both genders pairing less, etc. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 10:23 AM |
| 1 | What’s considered being single by choice?This is getting to the big open question as to what determines one's attraction standards. But just because you can't find anyone you can land attractive does not mean it is easy to truly lower standards, even if they are more a result of culture/environment than biology. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 07:06 AM |
| 2 | The only reason why men and women aren't understanding each other is cause both of them are in different phases in datingI will be honest. I don't fully trust the anecdotes here. Nothing personal, just been on PPD too long. Often important info. is left out. LIke they will say "I'm a 6'4" White guy making 120k with a low BMI and a 8/10 face." That might all be true. But they will leave out that they are highly introverted with bad social skills. Or that they are on the spectrum. Or some other key thing. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 06:51 AM |
| 2 | "Autistic women are less likely to be single because they're better at masking" No, it's because gender roles expect men to be far more socially adept in datingThere is only one spectrum I'm on, and it isn't the political one haha I wouldn't even call myself centrist. I just try to be as honest and factual as I can and then look for the most pragmatic solutions. I am wary of false certainty. Things are too complex for that now. You will have best guesses and then have to try shit (carefully) and see what happens. Course correct. Always with humility in face of the overwhelming complexity of most issues. You might want to read the 10,000 year explosion.… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 06:26 AM |
| 1 | If “your league is what you can get” then women are shooting too high for guys they can only get for casual sexI'm not really that interested on what is true at the individual level as much as I want to look at the bigger picture. Why are most men shit? Are they really? I have an academic and scholarly interest here mainly. I don't have any timeline for having to make some sort of policy decision based on best guess at the time. So I like to look at all sides of the issues. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 04:17 AM |
| 3 | If “your league is what you can get” then women are shooting too high for guys they can only get for casual sexI agree that stripping away delusions would likely result in some women finding men on their own level more attractive. But it is far from clear how far this effect would go. I also think men may have their own forms of delusion resulting from other aspects of runaway technology abuse and just modern shit culture. Male sexuality is robust enough, and the male attraction floor flexible enough, that it won't necessarily show up in pairing rates. But it may show up in how attracted a man is to a wo… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 04:08 AM |
| 4 | If “your league is what you can get” then women are shooting too high for guys they can only get for casual sexYou are assuming that what is 'supposed' to happen is that women should pair widely with men of not much higher relative SMV rank in long term monogamous relationships. But at this point all assumptions are open for investigation. Maybe this always required a large number of women to pair with women they are not sexually attracted to. Yes, many women are likely deluded about what kinds of guys they can actually land. But even if you stripped away those delusions, this doesn't mean those women wo… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 03:55 AM |
| 4 | "Autistic women are less likely to be single because they're better at masking" No, it's because gender roles expect men to be far more socially adept in datingI am have huge issues with psychology and their taxonomy of 'disorders'. But regardless or whether psych has autism exactly right, it is pointing at something. And that something seems to have clearly grown in number. Maybe it is older parents. I honestly think we need to get the median age of birth down, but it has to be done in such a way where it makes sense for the individual man and woman. They cannot just be taking it for Team Human. People don't work that way. I suspect that autism, adhd,… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 03:51 AM |
| 7 | Men adapt to women's needs therefore women are the problemIt's unclear to what extent there actually is an increase in male sexual exclusion. Beyond that, even if we stipulate that there is, we don't know exactly why. Maybe women didn't get pickier--maybe men got worse. Maybe women did get pickier, but it they are just finally free to manifest their natural and innate levels of selectivity. Maybe widespread enforced monogamy always went against female nature and involved forcing countless women to pair with men they found sexually unattractive, even if… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 03:44 AM |
| 1 | Fear mongering women over “dying alone”I responded more in depth to you elsewhere. But isn't negging a tactic a guy does directly to the girl he is trying to sleep with? It was originally supposed to be used tactically, on very attractive women who were used to every man complimenting her and had an inflated ego because of that. OK if it came up in such situations naturally, as part of organic banter. I don't approve of 'canned' tactics in general, though. So I always hated it. Using it on less pretty girls is just wrong no matter wh… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 02:59 AM |
| 1 | Fear mongering women over “dying alone”My interest is mostly academic, even anthropological. I tend to focus on the strongest forms of an argument from the best actors. You get the good form of this argument from even married, female dating coaches. I am also aware that the manosphere is highly toxic and deranged in many places. So those guys are taking these types of arguments and trying to use them with different motivations, attaching various woman-hating beliefs onto them and so on. But I have no time for these guys. The issue wi… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 02:55 AM |
| 1 | Is it acceptable to criticize a woman's hair?I think that if you have enough game and attractiveness to pull this off then you could have done fine without being a dick. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 06:59 PM |
| 1 | Women in their 20s don't want to settle downPeople respond to incentives. I agree that a more common understanding that society has a stake in mating patterns and that there is an obligation to society can move the needle some. But in the main you will need to restructure incentives to get early marriage and reproduction. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 11:53 AM |
| 3 | "Autistic women are less likely to be single because they're better at masking" No, it's because gender roles expect men to be far more socially adept in datingThere's no formula for that, which is why it is a hard question. There's likely a hard limit at which everything goes to hell, but nobody knows what that is, especially in modernity where it is easier to pacify sexually frustrated males, and where their raw bodies alone are much less of a military threat. But I'd say you are likely to be well beyond the ideal pairing rate before you get to that. But how sexually selective free women naturally are is also a factor. And we dont really know for sur… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 11:25 AM |
| 0 | I'm not convinced that women's sexuality is shamed more.Humans are the only truly intelligent animal. Thus, if you suddenly apply intelligence and then intelligence-produced morality to humans, it would be a miracle if that morality ended up approving all male and female instincts and typical behaviors equally. So the better form of the argument is that female sexuality is more shamed than male for things that should not be shamed. Men rape more. But should we not shame that more because women aren't doing it much? Men watch way more porn. Everyone s… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 11:21 AM |
| 2 | How do guys who are settled for make the most of it?The concept of settling is nebulous. Unclear what that means. Does every guy who dreams of marrying a supermodel 'settle' when they do get married? So I think you need better framing here. Do you mean when a guy marries a woman who isn't sufficiently attracted to him that she actually likes sex with him? A wife who has slept with men she considers hotter or to have provided a better sexual experience? A wife who feels disappointed in her man from the beginning but feels forced to pick someone fo… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 11:13 AM |
| – | Debate: the problem with the dating market is women’s standards are too highThe nature of the game may be similar, or even the same. But I am not sure the conditions are. But yes, from an individual male's perspective, it is pretty much the same even if things were harder. Learn what women like in your SMP. Adapt to that. Improve. Compete. If it is harder, so what? How does that change what you do? But on a macro and society level, the overall results can change and I suspect they have. We may disagree there, but that is life on Reddit. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 11:10 AM |
| 1 | Men age better than Women. Fact or Societal standards/expectations?The biological facts are that men have a strong preference for neoteny in women. Women do not have that preference in men. In certain objective ways men probably peak in pure physical attractiveness later than men as they tend to fill out in their mid 20s. Women also wrinkle more than men, and women care less about male wrinkles. Men have the hairline, though. How much women care varies. Women's preferences for men, even purely on a physical basis, seem to scale more with age, to a point. Men un… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 11:06 AM |
| 1 | CMV: Luck is everything. Some men are just by default undesirable and there is no underlyting reason whySelf-improvement has levels to it. Female mate choice preferences absolutely do encourage men to improve, and most men respond to that motivation to some extent. But radical change on personal level is very hard and thus very rare. I'm mostly concerned with the big picture. It isn't all luck. Certain cultural and environmental factors can impact how selective women are and what their preferences are. But we do not understand all the dynamics by any means. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 10:55 AM |
| 9 | "Autistic women are less likely to be single because they're better at masking" No, it's because gender roles expect men to be far more socially adept in datingThe problem is that it is natural for a young man to be obsessed with finding female sexual partners until he has some. But that doesn't mean you can equate women's sexual choices with society's overall treatment. I'll be brutal, in terms of real social priorities, what matters is big picture things. What is the pairing rate? What percentage of men are sexually excluded? How stable and lasting are pairings? What behaviors are male and female mate choice preferences encouraging and discouraging i… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 10:51 AM |
| – | Debate: the problem with the dating market is women’s standards are too highI misread and wasn't quite sure what your 'nothing changed' applied to. I see you mean that very broadly in terms of what % of men get women. I do not think you proved it, but this is one of the possibilities. It's advanced by many. I think something has changed along these lines, but I am not sure how much and why. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 10:35 AM |
| – | Debate: the problem with the dating market is women’s standards are too highBut the big question is all about whether the lesser did get what is left over, and the dynamics of that pairing, including how many guys were left out entirely. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 07:21 AM |
| – | Debate: the problem with the dating market is women’s standards are too highFirst of all, I think it is empirically unclear exactly what is happening on the ground right now. This includes the possibility that some dynamics complained about by PPD men are true, but only in certain demographics. The most important point, though, is that even if we stipulate that the OP is right, we still wouldn't know WHY those standards are that high. For one, saying they are TOO high assumes that the widespread monogamy paradigm we have operated under (and which requires women to not d… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 07:01 AM |
| 8 | The Big Difference of Aging between Men vs Women is...Men are biologically attracted to neoteny in women in a way that women are not attracted to it in men. As well, despite what Blackpill says, men still care more about female looks than the other way around, overall. Finally, not only do women care less about wrinkles on men, men wrinkle less. Hairline is a male issue, but the extent to which women innately care is hard to say. OFC we do now have a culture of sex and youth, so that is pushing both genders to care more about looking young. These a… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 06:51 AM |
| 2 | How would an IQ score on your ID card affect dating or society in general?I won't beat around the bush. I am a believer in hypergamy, though I am more circumspect in my definition or certainty that I have hypergamy perfectly defined. And I aim at the core evolved instinct, and not how it manifests in a given environment. I don't think it is impossible for a less intelligent man to meet a smarter woman's hypergamous needs, but it is much harder. That said, like all qualities, the extent to which a given woman is hypergamous varies. You do not seem particularly hypergam… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 03:58 AM |
| 1 | How would an IQ score on your ID card affect dating or society in general?Even if you have the EQ to manage the problems, it's still isolating. I think that for various reasons, it is harder to make it work if the woman is the much smarter one. But when the man is, and they can make it work, it is functioning superficially but it limits possibilities in the kind of relationship you can have. I prefer a meeting of the minds, so the kinds of relationships possible with an average IQ woman do not generally appeal to me. (Here I'm assuming that IQ turns out to be a true p… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 02:26 AM |
| 1 | How would an IQ score on your ID card affect dating or society in general?For the sake of the question we are assuming that the IQ test was accurate. Using it as a proxy for true intelligence, which if probably true most of the time. But on an individual basis, sometimes the tests miss someone. You are right that having a high IQ is also correlated with many other things for complex reasons, but there can be issues even if that is not true. And yeah, socially unsuccessful people often end up identifying with their intelligence and a validating IQ score can encourage t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 02:13 AM |
| 1 | How would an IQ score on your ID card affect dating or society in general?Kinda. The core issue persists even if you had high WIS and CHA in that you are still in a different reality. OFC if you have CHA and WIS you can limit some of the negative side effects Misty talks about. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 02:09 AM |
| 3 | How would an IQ score on your ID card affect dating or society in general?Yep. Aware of how the curves differ here. And yeah, that is the issue because high IQ people tend to be more intellectual, and not being able to share that with a partner makes you feel isolated. You don't need her to be fully on your level, but close enough to not feel alone. Not every high IQ guy works this way, but more than enough do. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 07:06 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI think we may be agreeing. Leagues are just an understanding of conventional attractiveness levels and thus a rough idea of your odds of being perceived as attractive by someone else, i.e. they are a lot higher if you are on their rough conventional attractiveness level. Sure, types are a thing, but they are the unknowable. Conventional attractiveness levels form the basis of your basis probabilities, but you know this is not perfect. And leagues do not mean someone is too good for you or not. … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:53 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI agree. That is what I have been arguing. But there are complexities if you look closely enough. But by and large, yes. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:50 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadSaying she is cute is super obvious sexual intent. I meant that it is obvious to the girl, and everyone else. But not that you go beyond the bounds of plausible deniability. Saying she is cute would cross that line. Nobody said one needs to have perfect league taxonomy. And sometimes you sincerely get it wrong. But generally one knows. Roughly. And you dont need to test it with cold direct approaches to know. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:44 PM |
| 4 | How would an IQ score on your ID card affect dating or society in general?Past 2 SD, you are pretty much neurodivergent by definition. You are qualitatively different than most people on the inside. Unless you make a concerted effort to harness your IQ to learn to fake being 'normal' you likely will not appear so. And a really high IQ person might find doing so really tedious and stressful. High IQ also doesnt mean you are disciplined, and such radical change requires that. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:40 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI agree that if we increase the resolution of our examination of the issue, interesting tensions arise due to insecurities. And often there is compartmentalization. At the same time, given how much pressure women are under for their appearance typically, I feel some part of almost every woman knows where they rate conventionally, at least in a somewhat rough manner. I'm not saying they have it down with super accuracy all the time. And then there are some who are pretty deluded, usually upping t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:37 PM |
| 6 | How would an IQ score on your ID card affect dating or society in general?Yes. But the relationship is gonna be complex. You probably get better EQ as you move up into an past the first standard deviation, and then at some point you go down. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:31 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI find this hard to believe. I've almost never met a girl who didn't know where she stands in conventional beauty. But I don't know you. So I can't argue about you with you. Maybe you are one of those rare exceptions. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:30 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadBut she didnt answer the actual question until a later post. Would you treat the guys differently assuming same scenario for each. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:28 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat Megathreadcool. my experience is that these interactions play out differently usually. but I think there are good reasons as well. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:26 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI would suspect that part of you would know if some guy you are really attracted to and is your type is also as conventionally attractive as you or not. You have some idea how 'most' people feel. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:23 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadWell remember they know they are almost certainly going to be attracted enough to the guy in their league to go out with him. Not right fit or whatever. But yeah, they are less attracted to the guy not in their league. I also think this is somewhat justified. Guys shouldn't generally just cold approach a woman out of their league with obvious sexual intent. Other ways to do it if you feel you must. And to some extent, a woman is gonna wonder what else is wrong with this guy if he doesn't follow … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:19 PM |
| 0 | How would an IQ score on your ID card affect dating or society in general?At the end of the day, being 140+ IQ IS neurodivergent in and of itself. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:16 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadNo. He is not your type. He is less attractive to you than the guy in your league. The guy in your league is obviously attractive, just not a fit for you. My experience is that women do treat these men differently, and that to some extent it is justified. Men can definitely bat out of their league, but it should inform their approach. You generally should not cold approach a girl out of your league with obvious sexual intent. You should play it differently. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:15 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadIt will be a very short period to enjoy since once everything crumbles, survivors will restart with a lot of sexual constraint. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:01 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadYou are wrong. Properly defined, everyone intuitively knows that leagues exist, even if they do not conceptualize them as such. Leagues are not destiny by any means. But they are very real. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:00 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadInteresting, but assuming it is the same scenario for both men, how and why would there be a difference? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 05:59 PM |
| 0 | How would an IQ score on your ID card affect dating or society in general?The correlation between really high IQ and ND is complex IMO. This is especially true because we would be pushing the boundaries of the very imperfect definition of neurodivergence. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 05:57 PM |
| 10 | How would an IQ score on your ID card affect dating or society in general?As someone with a very high IQ, I can tell you there are reasons sexual success goes down as your IQ goes up. Beyond some correlations between unattractive traits and very high IQ, it is often very hard for high IQ people to truly relate to more normal IQs. And vice versa. And the dating pool of 130+ IQ people is not that large. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 05:55 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadQuestion 4 W (but anyone can chime in--it's a free fucking country. Or is in theory.) Would you generally respond differently to a guy who approached you at a bar who was in your league, but just not your type vs. a guy who was clearly way below your league? Assume both approach nicely and decently. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 05:51 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadYeah. I mean as with anything there are levels to this. But if we are calling her a size Queen, her desire for big dicks is pretty high level lol | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 05:46 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadSexual restraint is always on a continuum. If we released all these constraints, civilization would end over a long weekend. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 05:35 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadAssuming some best version of myself that can properly process primal insecure feelings, which doesn't seem like a younger me, I dunno. I guess I'd need to know how medium the actual sex is for her. How much of a size queen she is. Cause if she is a penetration girl and size is the primary determinant of how enjoyable sex is, then whatever she is saying now, chances are that at some point she is gonna crave a bigger dick again. And probably go get one. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 05:33 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI can't figure out if we are supposed to bring about equality by having men constrain their objectification of women, or by having women objectify men to match. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 05:27 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadMaybe. Depends on a lot of very specific details. Did she say it when we were serious? People tend to forget that LTRs start off often as something not serious, and so say something about that lover early on they regret saying later on. It's normal. Also, how often was she saying this. Most importantly, why was she saying I was not the greatest lover? Is this fixable? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 05:23 PM |
| – | "You're not competing with other men, but her peace of mind" actually you are competing with her situationshipsRight. I agree that if higher mate value men didn't fuck down sometimes when it was their easiest option, a desire for sex would push some women into sleeping with or even LTRing with guys on their level. However, I am skeptical about the size of the overall impact of this dynamic on the SMP. Have an open mind, but an doubtful at the moment. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 04:35 PM |
| – | "You're not competing with other men, but her peace of mind" actually you are competing with her situationshipsMany variables. You may be underestimating the ability of some women, often older and perhaps lower SMV women, to go nun mode forever, often anticipating that none of their options for relationships will be attractive to them, and not wanting to be pumped and dumped by guys they do find attractive but the girls know will never LTR them. Not all women are the deluded girls one sees cherry picked on manosphere podcasts. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 04:03 PM |
| 2 | Men and women are not, and never will be equalEvolution doesn't do equal. Of course. But human intelligence has to try to make sense of certain things, and it can do equal in some ways. We can decide, for example, that human lives have equal moral worth in some fundamental sense. As for male and female physical confrontation, humans have to make rules and ideals to make for better lives. You will have to generalize to do that. This means there will be some arbitrary-like lines drawn. But it is necessary. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:41 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadFair enough. I was sorta assuming best case scenario (which is very rare) and that the sexless internet guy filtered well and got his info. from the better sources. Not very common haha | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:31 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI dont really believe in middle grounds per se. The middle ground is being more and more truthful, and at higher resolution sometimes when needed. So saying things like makeup isnt sexual is stupid. So is the idea that male preference has nothing to do with it or why women wear it. But saying every girl who wears it is a whore is also totally stupid. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:24 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadRight. They may know more raw info about women than the guy who stays off the internet and just has relationships. But the guys without lived experience also lack the perspective to properly process a lot of that info. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:13 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadNot that you ever go too far, but some things are better shared much later in life when you are older and have been together for decades. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:11 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat Megathreadhaha yeah more overdone bullshit from the manosphere. OTOH if we can have a more honest and nuanced conversation about it, it might help prevent SOME of the extremism. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:10 PM |
| 1 | Fear mongering women over “dying alone”I agree, which is why extreme blackpill is dumb. Mind you, the men here are focusing in on what induces the most raw sexual lust in women. One may have issues with their monomaniacal focus on this, which I do. But I will also entertain their questions, while adding my own. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 02:04 PM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Perhaps you are viewing this through a more modern political lens than a historical and anthropological one. All good. Just not what I was interested in. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 01:07 PM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?It's a discussion thread, not a debate thread. I meant to investigate the whole dynamic, throughout different periods of history. This is why I also put in the word 'extent'. It isn't just a binary. Oppressed or not. But to what extent. Why. Were some periods different than others. Etc., Some good conversations were had IMO. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 01:02 PM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Because the idea is to avoid getting stuck on some technical argument about what 'oppressed' means and go beyond that IMO. 'Oppressed' has a connotation of it being unnecessary, for example. So one can take a look at to what extent some of the arrangements were necessary at the time, etc. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 12:55 PM |
| 1 | Fear mongering women over “dying alone”There are various schools of thought as to who make up the real top 20%. Is it about reproductive success? If it about stimulating true 'burning desire' in women? And are we talking historical context, or now? Blackpiller say that if it is about real desire, it is ALL looks. TRP says that if it is about real desire, it is still a mix of looks / status / game / dominance, with cultural and environmental conditions swinging the relative weightings here and there. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 12:37 PM |
| 1 | Women love chasing men, they just don’t admit it or flat out deny it.That may be an after the fact rationalization for an instinctive feeling in women. They aren't attracted to agreeable guys for evolutionary reasons, and due to sexual polarity and the like. It just seems weak. And weak isn't manly. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:23 AM |
| 4 | Older man/younger woman relationships are idealSure. But that probably tends to have a shelf life. At least in today's climate, there's a good chance he ages into a dead zone of attractiveness to her for a while at a time when she is still more universally hot. This can be bad news. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:18 AM |
| 1 | Women love chasing men, they just don’t admit it or flat out deny it.I think there is a continuum. And machismo and assholery can sort of blend into one another. In general, if you use Big 5 psychology, women do not like men more agreeable than them. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:16 AM |
| 1 | Older man/younger woman relationships are idealHow much older? But here's the thing. We still generally go into relationships with the idea that if this works it could be forever. There are issues with large age gaps as you get to the tail end of forever. I agree that for fucking around, as long as the guy is still hot in her eyes, there is something to be said on both sides for older man/younger women. There is political pressure against it because of the above point (and other factors) that IMO is making it harder for younger women to find… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:12 AM |
| 1 | Women love chasing men, they just don’t admit it or flat out deny it.The bad boy thing is a complex topic when you deep dive into it. But ofc this is all on a continuum like all things. So the degree of bad boy a woman needs varies. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:08 AM |
| 1 | Fear mongering women over “dying alone”I'm just the messenger here and trying to outline some common arguments I hear lol But no, many in TRP argue that while only 20% of men can be found truly sexually desirable, of course women date more than 20% of men. But they do it for other reasons, and those relationships tend to involve the woman extracting resources from the man. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 02:39 AM |
| 4 | Women today are the ones slut shaming men and trying to control men's bodies.I live in China and lived in Korea for a long time too. Also Eastern EUrope. Someone was telling me Latin America is different. I don't know. Never been there or heard much about pasport bros going there. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 05:04 PM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Yeah, there is an argument to be made that these are all regrettable side effects of other traits men evolved that were necessary for group survival, including women's. But once technology put us beyond that, women are kinda like 'well if those traits aren't needed, then why the fuck should we put up with the downsides one second longer?' | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 04:53 PM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?I'm not sure if you are arguing that sex makes men more likely to exploit than women with the same power, or that it makes the exploitation worse, or both. I'd also advance the idea that even without the sex angle, men might be more inclined to exploit simply due to biology. More aggression. Less agreeableness. More desire for dominance. Less empathy and compassion. All baked into hormones and DNA. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 04:42 PM |
| 2 | Women love chasing men, they just don’t admit it or flat out deny it.I think women are aware. But they feel they have a tough choice. So many of the guys who would otherwise be good partners just are not sexually desirable to them. So what they gonna do? Imagine a world where almost all of the women would be horrible partners, and the best partners would be gay men. Does that mean you consider a gay relationship at all as an option? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 04:28 PM |
| -2 | Fear mongering women over “dying alone”It is manipulation. But in the view of the manipulators, it is benevolent. Women can truly lower artificially inflated standards and find the guys that will commit to them truly attractive. Then everyone can be happier. But there is definitely some contradiction and incoherence on whether women are naturally and intractably so selective that only 20% of men can ever be attractive to them. Or whether this is just because of artificial inflation due to OLD, modernity, female culture and so on and … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 04:24 PM |
| 0 | Fear mongering women over “dying alone”The logic is that BOTH genders are much happier in general if they pair up. But that women and their self-inflated standards are causing the pairing rate to drop, while at the same time their behavior is making pairing with many of them (even if you can) not worth it for men, even granting how a good pairing is beneficial to men. Thus they are trying to remind women of the value of a intimate partnership with men so that women will adapt realistic standards and change their behavior so as to fac… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 03:17 PM |
| 2 | Women today are the ones slut shaming men and trying to control men's bodies.I can't speak to passport bros in latin america. I do have knowledge of Asia and Eastern Europe. . | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 02:14 PM |
| 7 | Women today are the ones slut shaming men and trying to control men's bodies.If they want hot guys, then how is this different? Most passport bros are not hot guys. That's why they are passport bros. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 11:50 AM |
| 2 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Fair enough. That makes more sense. I forgot about the interest young girls show in playing mommy and such. I was thinking more of some sort of explicit download. And that is what it would take with men. But I imagine a man could fasttrack learning this stuff once his wife gets pregnant. I do think women should be expected to do the vast majority of childcare in the first year. It is just better for the baby. Most women want to do it too, IMO. But they want the right conditions to make it possib… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 10:56 AM |
| 2 | The lies growing upStart? I haven't stopped. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 10:42 AM |
| 8 | Women love chasing men, they just don’t admit it or flat out deny it.The ideal relationship for the typical man and woman is where he fully meets her core hypergamous needs, and this isn't necessarily economic. But she looks up to him and admires him and feels he is ultimately stronger than her mentally, emotionally and physically. Her infatuation with him is greater and more on the surface, those his love for her may run just as deep but is a little more subdued. That said, life is often about making non-ideal situations work since so many of them are just that.… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 10:39 AM |
| 5 | Women today are the ones slut shaming men and trying to control men's bodies.Can a mediocre man date casually in Costa Rica and get hot girls as enthusiastic sex partners who have real desire and who are not there for the hope of a lifestyle bump, citizenship, better gifts than local men can provide? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 10:33 AM |
| 2 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?I dunno about the childcare part because at least in my experience nobody really prepares girls or boys for it. Advice and help come in once somebody gets pregnant. It's a weakness of mine (and also sometimes a strength) that when it comes to gender I can want to believe some aspects of the more Woo Woo divine masculine/feminine stuff, including overall equality and complementarity. At the same time, when on other topics, I am pretty brutal about acknowledging that nature does not do equal. If e… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 10:30 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadThe overpopulation thing is somewhat of a red herring in this context. I am talking about the women who feel that not having a replacement birthrate is OK forever, even after any possible overpopulation situation was taken care of. This is such an insane position that I have to try to imagine some possible reasons for it lol As for sexually excluded men, I am talking about men who basically almost never touch a woman without money changing hands. And who certainly don't have a serious romantic r… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 09:43 AM |
| 2 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Ah. Yes. I am not sure how much of this is at play anymore. And I dont know how much I buy into the flexing thing. But of course feminism cant succeed without male acquiescence at the least, and some key active support from men, too. And I have long wondered about the role of powerful men with daughters in all of that. But I am not so cynical that I believe love and concern for their daughters was not motivation, rather than it being some sort of flex on other men or not wanting to support them. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 09:36 AM |
| 30 | Women today are the ones slut shaming men and trying to control men's bodies.I don't think women see themselves as doing the same thing as passport bros at all. They are in their natural SMP making the best of things that they can using whatever tools other people use. The vast majority of passport bros are not really going overseas because the women may have different values or morals. No. They are going to get hotter girls than they could here. To purposely leave home and move to another nation just to get a hotter girl strikes women as the height of superficial. And t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 09:32 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI'm having the very provisional thought that the genders are sort of in something akin to a labor bargaining situation. In this light, of course intelligent women know that at some point we need replacement population. They also know that too many sexually excluded men would be very dangerous. But they aren't gonna admit to points that would weaken their bargaining position in the middle of a negotiation, so stop asking them to do that. The threat of these things is part of what would motivate m… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 09:14 AM |
| 2 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Not sure I follow the logic here. Men flexing on other men? But I have long held the belief that in many things the right framing is not Men vs. Women but High Value Men vs. Women vs. Rest of Men. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 09:09 AM |
| 1 | How does the average woman feel about sex?The elephant in the room question is the extent to which women's sex drive is impacted by the partner they have or potential partner they are considering. Obviously, men are impacted by that as well. But there may be some truth to Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks and women's attraction being much more bifurcated between guys who make them truly desirous, and guys that do not. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 09:00 AM |
| 1 | How does the average woman feel about sex?I somewhat disagree. Maybe I have too much experience with social sciences. I think you have to take in information from all sources on these things, from literature to religion to social sciences to anecdotes to what your eyes show you. And then there is no perfect formula for how to put them all together and draw conclusions. It is more art than science. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 08:57 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadHonestly, I'm not an expert in US divorce laws. I have seen various experts I trust say that overall divorce with children can be somewhat unfair to men. However, much of the reason is that this is often in the best interest of the kids. One of those situations with no perfect solution. I tend to believes in this overall summary, but have an open mind. And yeah, I have heard those figures. But that isn't necessarily inconsistent with divorce with children being at least somewhat tilted against m… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 08:15 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadTrue. But wasnt really thinking of just one thing. In general there may be more of a tension between the interests of high and low value men than of high and low value women. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 08:04 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI think his videos often have lasting value. I have uncovered lots of interesting source material from his videos. Him taking manosphere talking points at too much face value on a couple of things is my major gripe here, and not something that infects most of his stuff. The divorce stuff seems dated, as well. The divorce courts WERE antimale in the past at some point, but at this point I do not think marriage itself is that risky for anyone. There are many effective ways to protect yourself if y… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 08:03 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadYeah, well he isn't into what he would call excessive hedonism. But he may also be making the mistake of believing that there are male vs. female interests whereas maybe the reality is more like, at a very low resolution, high value men, women, the rest of men--three groups, not two. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 07:52 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadIt started off as speculative alternative history. So yeah, he is trying to play God here. He is gonna be wrong most of the time. One has to accept that. Over time, some of his videos have been more explicitly predictive, like this one. I think he is trying to warn people. This is one of his weaker projects in many respects. He takes way too many manosphere talking points at face value, as if they were facts. I tend to think there is something behind many of these points, but I wish he'd dig a b… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 07:50 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadHis stuff is dense with a million semi-baked ideas sometimes. Missed that one. Is it early on? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 07:41 AM |
| – | Why does society only entertain the idea of choice when it's comes to women??Where do you live that they force you to fuck women at gunpoint? I'm moving! | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 07:40 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadHe's not a grifter at all IMO. He's a sincere truth searcher with a lot of curiosity. The issue is that he may lack the intellectual firepower for a lot of the material he deals with, especially at the depths he likes to play in. He isn't stupid, but he takes on the really big questions and ideas with some of the biggest and deepest sources. It is not easy terrain to navigate with proper nuance. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 07:39 AM |
| 10 | Women love chasing men, they just don’t admit it or flat out deny it.Both genders do this with respect to people they find sexually attractive. The question is always who and what swath of the population each gender finds attractive, and how attractive. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 07:36 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI try to avoid the US culture and political wars. Everything that isn't within the domain of the modern left wokeys is considered right wing. This guy wasn't really on the political spectrum at first, though I'd say he has become more overtly US right wing over time on some things. I often don't agree with a lot of his reasoning or conclusions. But he tends to bring in stuff from a bunch of interesting sources and opinions and smash it all together. I see value in that even if his thinking is so… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 07:31 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat Megathreadhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4dxsmlPguY Anyone seen this? Is it even discussable here? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 06:14 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadBut even these heuristics can deceive. I have a big, broad frame. I am 6'3". I always had nice calves. I'm also overweight. But I've always been weak as fuck for my size. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 06:13 AM |
| 1 | The idea that women are naturally not attracted to most men or that they naturally have a weaker sex drive is nonsense.I would also add that the nature of female hypergamy and the degree of female sexual selectivity ARE the big open questions of the day IMO. This includes what the biological baseline is, and how and in what ways culture and environment can influence that biology. I do not think we know. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 04:21 AM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Well, I think it depends on which ancestors you are referring to. The argument I am making is that prehistoric peoples might have been so underdeveloped cognitively compared to us, on a biological level, that they would not behave the same way. In fact, they could not even maintain modern conditions if handed to them. So if we are trying to infer underlying common instincts on a biological level, this idea raises the already high level of complexity. At what point are our ancestors similar enoug… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 04:03 AM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?I have been reading arguments asserting that the idea that evolution slowed to a crawl after the stone age is totally incorrect: In fact, it accelerated greatly. Thus, even though the 10,000 years since the agricultural revolution are a short period evolutionarily speaking, some human populations may have changed significantly since then, especially in terms of intelligence. So even if we have similar instincts to stone age people, at the biological level, the combination of low IQ and these ins… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 03:15 AM |
| 1 | The idea that women are naturally not attracted to most men or that they naturally have a weaker sex drive is nonsense.No. There is an interplay between nature and nurture, but the OP and quotations underplay biology. Yes, in theory, sufficiently strong and targeted cultural influence can move the needle on biology more than most people think. But this is not generally sustainable, and things will return closer to the biological 'normal' when the influence is removed. It is not an apples to apples comparison, but still, it is pretty clear the male sex drive is typically much stronger on a biological level. I als… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 02:34 AM |
| – | Why does society only entertain the idea of choice when it's comes to women??Because sometimes there are no perfect choices, only least bad ones. Mating has never been solely an individual thing. Society has a stake. Yes, unilateral abortion options without the man being able to opt out is innately unfair. But every other options is worse. Maybe if we become post scarcity, or we adopt another mating and child raising paradigm, we could be more fair on this issue. But for now, this is how it has to be. The fairness aspect is that both sides know what the rules are when th… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 02:28 AM |
| 2 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?If I had to make a best guess right now, this would probably be my highest odds answer. People with power tend to use it to their own advantage. Then layer on the fact that males probably evolved instincts that make them more likely to do this with greater intensity. The instincts were evolved for other reasons, but they tend to make men strive for dominance more than women. However, since no timely policy measures that I am deciding depend on me making a call, I like to keep exploring issues fr… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 02:22 AM |
| – | "More women should make the first move" yeah, and it would still be like TinderIf you do speed dating and invert the roles such that the men stay at tables and the women move from table to table and are supposed to initiate, maybe choose which table, etc. then women become less selective. How much this translates to real life is hard to say. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 02:10 AM |
| 1 | "The Ick" is just another way of saying "a turn-off"I was addressing raw levels of sexual selectivity, not what each gender selects for or fetishizes or inflicts on the other. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 04:17 PM |
| 2 | "The Ick" is just another way of saying "a turn-off"SMV or mate value framings work fine when applied at the macro level. Walking around trying to determine your SMV and hers is stupid. Relatively small shifts at the margins can actually have outsized impacts on an SMP. These patterns can be hard to see by touching grass at your local Wal*Mart. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 03:41 PM |
| – | "More women should make the first move" yeah, and it would still be like TinderStudies and experiments have shown that being in the initiator role, at least in person, tends to reduce selectivity. Now, whether that would hold long term is hard to say. And it wouldn't reduce female selectivity to male levels necessarily. And then how much any of this holds true online is unknown. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 03:38 PM |
| 1 | "The Ick" is just another way of saying "a turn-off"But in the grand scheme of things, specifics like footbinding don't move the needle. It's more about how much higher in SMV rank (within your own gender) women will insist on mating. And if too high, then not only do the men who do mate feel it is unfair, but it also means way more men who do not mate. And less marriages and families and so on. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 03:29 PM |
| 3 | "The Ick" is just another way of saying "a turn-off"In the end, this all turns on how much of women's greater selectivity is innate and intractable, and how much has been increased by modern culture and conditions. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 03:17 PM |
| – | Men struggle so much because they are in constant contradiction.This. There are various coherent opinion packages possible within that laundry list of opinions. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 03:04 PM |
| 2 | "The Ick" is just another way of saying "a turn-off"It's because, like many things on PPD, it goes back to men being upset about what they see as the unfairness of women being too much more sexually selective than men. The idea is that women have way more turn offs, and way more of those are decisive. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 02:42 PM |
| – | A question for menThere is likely an asymmetry in feelings about male vs. female promiscuity on an evolved instinct level. And both genders feel it, though men more strongly. But it is unclear how strong and universal the basic instinct is. Culture layered a lot on top of it, often at times when culture had good reasons. Many of those reasons are gone or lessened now. So outside of the manosphere where people are overstating the intensity of the basic instinct in an attempt to weaponize it to alter female behavio… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 02:05 PM |
| – | In the US, looking good is more beneficial for men than women.Nobody sane ever thought anybody's looks didn't matter at all. But the OP is conflating looking presentable and looking sexually attractive to the other gender. I think the latter still matters more for women than for men. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 01:39 PM |
| 2 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Interesting distinction. And no, I'm trying NOT to narrow things down. I dont really see this as a debate or something that is supposed to reach a conclusion. Not as if people are likely to change other people's minds here. Not immediately. So I'm interested in any takes on it. Unclear to me how much that structural vs incidental distinction holds in times where a certain relatively consistent level of conflict is expected, though. This is funnily sort of in the same ballpark as my mom's argumen… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 01:13 PM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?These are solid points. There may also be a modern Western overprioritization of concepts like 'agency' and 'status equality' and stuff like that. There may also have been more of a need for there to be a single captain of a family who could make decisive decisions for it, and that could be held responsible for the whole family's actions as well. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 12:50 PM |
| 3 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Fair enough. Interesting hypothesis, but sort of incomplete if you don't actually address the issue of whether society is also actually tilting towards women in some ways or just seeming to. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 11:46 AM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?I dunno. This is why I am asking. You have argued that some periods and places were much more horrible for women. I'm wondering if the opposite has ever been true. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 11:44 AM |
| 3 | Women have become increasingly emboldened by our gynocentric society and more often than not are rude and disrespectful for no reason even when you are not hitting on themNot at all. As I phrased it, this is not something I necessarily buy, but it is an argument I wanted to throw out there and get some feedback on. That IS purple pilled in its essence. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 11:43 AM |
| 3 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?There's a lot more to the treatment of women than who they got to mate with. But on that point, yes their selectivity was somewhat oppressed. But I am not nearly as certain as you are that women are innately as selective as you make them out to me, i.e. that with no need for men and complete sexual freedom, 50% of men would basically be incels. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 08:29 AM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Are there are any cultures or periods that were a lot more horrible for men than women? Or is the range from about even to way worse for women? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 08:11 AM |
| 2 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Well you have such radically different characterizations of history in terms of gender balance. On one extreme, you have some people who say men basically abused and mass raped women for all of history. On the other, you have the argument that even if they lacked power, women were generally more protected and better treated than the men of their own level. I'm just trying to sort how I feel about this. What it might mean for NOW is a whole other thing. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 08:09 AM |
| 0 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?If the OP post was sloppy, my bad. But as can be seen in posts throughout this thread, I honestly do not know what I think. I am often playing Devil's Advocate or using other people's arguments I have heard to test reactions and counters. I assure you I am in good faith. If that isn't enough, then I guess we are done. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 07:58 AM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Sometimes we have to work within the limits that exist. This is too big to solve like a math problem with perfect data. I don't want to overload the word 'oppressed' either. I have used other words, as well. People can define oppressed however they want so long as they are clear about. And they can use other words. Various thinkers have characterized the history of gender relations in radically different ways. I'm not sure what I think, and to help me think it through myself, I just wanted to op… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 07:54 AM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?I'm not angry at anyone. I've heard radically different arguments about how one would characterize gender relations throughout history and I'm just trying to work out what I think myself. Discussion with others is a good way to do that. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 07:48 AM |
| 3 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?So the argument here would be that the HUMAN tendency for the more powerful to exploit the less so crosses gender lines. Nobody was morally superior, men or women. Men had more chances to be more powerful, and when they were, they exploited anyone they could, men or women. When women could exploit people, they did it just as much. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 07:43 AM |
| 1 | Is FTM transitions a good example of male loneliness comparative to female loneliness?What conditions would cause what levels of alienation and loneliness may differ among the genders. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 07:40 AM |
| 3 | Is FTM transitions a good example of male loneliness comparative to female loneliness?Men and women are biologically different. I do not think it is sexist to assert the truth. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 07:26 AM |
| 0 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?I think that at the least prehistoric people lacked the social technology to fully oppress and exploit women to the extent some other societies at least seem to have. Half your population is women. They live and sleep with you. Most are kin. Just logistically, even if the males there were Satan spawn, it seems impossible to completely disregard their feelings and ideas and not become miserable yourselves. Women have some talent for making men they despise miserable when they can. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 07:25 AM |
| -1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Those are interesting points about the male downsides. Kinda what I wanted to get at. Women had the chain pregnancies and difficult births and childcare role. And maybe they were subservient in a certain sense, but they were also more innately valued and protected perhaps. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 07:15 AM |
| 0 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Hmm. If we throw in prehistory as 99% of our existence, things may get more complicated. Then again, I have been reading arguments that evolution accelerated since agriculture, and that even though the post-agriculture period is a very small part of our existence, humans changed a lot cognitively in that period. So basically, in the ways that matter, prehistoric humans were not us and you cannot really think of that period as human history in terms of something that would be relevant to how mode… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 07:12 AM |
| 2 | Is FTM transitions a good example of male loneliness comparative to female loneliness?You are only presenting one extreme option. Another is that she suffered MORE because of her female sensibilities, and male sensibilities would not have suffered AS MUCH. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 07:00 AM |
| 0 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?I think maybe you are over fixating on one term in the title: oppressed. But it isn't mean to be that kind of formal debate. And I use other terms like advantaged or exploited or better life elsewhere. The real point is who had it better, I suppose. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:59 AM |
| 2 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Well, it isn't as if we are limited to one discussion. So we could talk about the first part purely in terms of getting at the truth. Then decide if it holds any relevance to the second. Some women might argue that millennia of unneeded and gratuitous male exploitation of women reveals men's true nature, and that is important to know now and in the future. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:57 AM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?What conditions existed in prehistory are always contentious topics. Opinions seem to vary wildly. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:55 AM |
| 3 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Yes, but the counterargument would be that if throughout almost all time and history men exploited women MORE than was necessary, while holding back any compensation for women's tougher biological role, then why should women trust men now? Through some combination of miracles and factors, women got men to take away the boot, perhaps temporarily. But it wasn't through some profound change in male nature. So women should always be wary and should feel no guilt IF things were to tilt in female adva… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:53 AM |
| 0 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?I guess this is a more general discussion than whether it is realistic to have expected a given set of men in a given place not to do this or that. Generally implicit in the critique that men oppressed women is that it wasn't necessary, or that men could have compensated women for what necessary oprression there was. There's an element of culpability here. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:49 AM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?This is not a strict formal debate, which are generally stupid anyways. So feel free to define any terms any way you like. We just talking here. And yeah, whether you would have preferred to be a man or woman is a decent working definition of advantaged. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:47 AM |
| 3 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?How are women mentally weaker than men exactly? And it is at least theoretically possible for the gender with more aggregate hard power to actually lead less advantaged lives overall than the gender with less power. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:43 AM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Regardless of the title, the idea is to think about things holistically. Depending on one's definition of oppressed, one gender could be more oppressed in most ways and yet still have overall advantaged lives to the other. Many possibilities. Freedom. Legal equality. Agency. Self-actualization. These are pretty modern concepts and may not represent the peak of happiness in times past. Or maybe even today. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:41 AM |
| 0 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?You can be property and still have a better life than someone who isn't. I'm not disregarding your point and it matters. But a single point is not decisive here IMO. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:38 AM |
| 2 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Not necessarily. But the 1960s in the West seem to be some sort of inflection point. But feel free to comment on the now as well as the past. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:37 AM |
| -2 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?It is a bit of a modern take to view legal and political equality as the sine qua non of being equally advantaged. It is possible to be advantaged overall even if legally inferior. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:35 AM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Well, it is you that are adding this requirement for some sort of perfect accuracy. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:34 AM |
| 0 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Maybe. That is a fairly modern pov that might not be relevant. Actualization is by no means the most important thing in a simple life. There were roman slaves who didnt want to be freed because their lives as valued and rich slaves were better than freedom in poverty, etc. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:33 AM |
| 0 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?At the risk of retroactively misapplying modern morality, one still might say that if one gender is more disadvantaged by biology, then the other is obligated to balance the scales. I would say that women needed to have that many children. Their societies needed to thrive and survive or the women were gonna suffer, too. But maybe men could have done more to balance things out given that women had to spend so much time pregnant and raising young kids? It probably would not have been efficient or … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:32 AM |
| 2 | We talk about women selecting toxic men a lot, but we hardly seem to glance at the thought of men actively selecting toxic womenIn general, the argument is that dumb men ignore female toxicity by overprioritizing sexual access to the hottest girl they can get. But with women, the argument is that they are not ignoring asshole traits, they are actually attracted to them. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 05:23 AM |
| 7 | Women have become increasingly emboldened by our gynocentric society and more often than not are rude and disrespectful for no reason even when you are not hitting on themI guess one argument is that even if we stipulate to the OP's facts--and we do not--this would, in the context of millennia of repression by men, constitute such an incredibly slight temporary overcorrection as to not be worth mentioning. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 04:32 AM |
| 1 | CMV: A man who has done extensive research on women and relationships but has not really been involved with them knows FAR MORE than a man who has lots experience with women without looking at studies and research.These are not exactly analogous. The reader guy is not some monk who has never seen a woman in his life. He just hasn't had a serious relationship. Now, if it were the monk who has never even seen a woman but has read about them vs, the man with extensive relationship experience, now it is the latter no question who knows more. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 04:30 AM |
| 0 | CMV: A man who has done extensive research on women and relationships but has not really been involved with them knows FAR MORE than a man who has lots experience with women without looking at studies and research.There are different types of knowing. It would be hard to say which of these two guys knows more about women. They both know different things. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 01:06 AM |
| 1 | Men's hatred/disdain for women is due to one simple fact..they don't understand them.As I said, if this is just a classic overpopulation situation, then not really different. And all is good. But there are a lot of women who insist we never need a replacement birthrate and that it is too much to ever expect that many kids on average from modern women. That is just delusional. Or really bad math skills. At some point you need that 2.1+. So women will have to do their duty to the species. But it's also fair for them to negotiate. What do men need to do so that this is a fair deal?… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 07:46 PM |
| 1 | Men's hatred/disdain for women is due to one simple fact..they don't understand them.Abortion and contraception methods of varying degrees of effectiveness. Having sex less regularly. Pulling out. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 07:40 PM |
| 1 | Men's hatred/disdain for women is due to one simple fact..they don't understand them.Even before birth control, populations naturally lowered birth rates when there was overpopulation. They had there ways. But there was no inherent lack of desire for children. Birth rates naturally climbed when overpopulation conditions went away. Look at the Black Death in Europe. Of course, at some point women do need to have 2-3 kids. And only they can give birth. Men can do as much as they can to balance things out, of course. So if there is more going on than overpopulation, then that is a … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 07:25 PM |
| 1 | Men's hatred/disdain for women is due to one simple fact..they don't understand them.I hear you on that. I tend to have very specific interests when it comes to the gender stuff. More academic, big picture and policy oriented. So I filter out a lot of the extreme stuff. There are men who think they deserve women above their level, or don't know their own level, etc. But overall I think this is more of a red herring. If there is a central issue, and it is unclear there is because everything is unclear about the current SMP, then that issue is more about female selectivity levels.… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 06:25 PM |
| 3 | Which is harder? Stay-at-home Parent? Or sole-provider for a family?Fair enough. What is easier and what is more desirable are not the same thing, for sure. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 06:11 PM |
| 2 | Which is harder? Stay-at-home Parent? Or sole-provider for a family?That's just a different question. I was just discussing what situation was a more difficult job in and of itself. I totally get that women feel that when men had all the power, they didn't take proper care of their women. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 05:52 PM |
| 1 | Masculine Aggression Is Not Always The AnswerWell, I suppose women could stop going after money, status, authority and success in men, right? Just kidding around. We all got our evolved instincts. It is what it is. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 05:06 PM |
| 3 | Is FTM transitions a good example of male loneliness comparative to female loneliness?I presume you would not be upset by gendered attention that praised you for MASCULINE qualities, though, right? Anyways, I appreciate the exchange of ideas in a civil and good faith manner. But it is probably too dangerous for me to go more deeply into this on Reddit. It is just so easy to get banned over trans discussions. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 04:19 PM |
| 2 | Late stage feminism leads to population collapseThere are too many potential confounding variables IMO to say that female education causes a massive drop in the birthrate in and of itself. Think of all the things that tend to come along with female education, or are needed as a foundation for it. Plus, nobody understands the TFR collapse. It is premature to put it at the feat of gender dynamics. It could be primarily economic. It could be about overpopulation signals--real or somehow mimicked. That is the scary part about the TFR isssue: we d… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 04:01 PM |
| 3 | Is FTM transitions a good example of male loneliness comparative to female loneliness?Well, there are different types of harassment. Transmen I have talked to say they 'prefer' the kind of basic bullying transmen get to the leering, predatory eyes of sex-hungry males. I think this is also why most of the queer, non-binary people were born women. Not so much about having the masculine roles as escaping issues associated with being female. But yeah, how you describe dysmorphia is not uncommon. At that level, it just feels primal and not about anything more than someone having an in… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 03:57 PM |
| – | Do you need looks to be sexually attracted to someone?A woman can fall in love and lust with a man that part of her brain objectively recognizes as physically unattractive. But if she does fall for him, and assuming his looks are not initially 'her type', then that still tends to change how she sees him. He usually becomes visually attractive to her. This works with men as well, but not as much. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 03:50 PM |
| 0 | Masculine Aggression Is Not Always The AnswerIt's also possible that women concluded that making men less attractive was an acceptable price to pay for making them less dangerous. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 03:46 PM |
| 5 | Is FTM transitions a good example of male loneliness comparative to female loneliness?It's interesting how you are pushing for a more genderless society. Perhaps if we lived in one, you would not have transitioned. Yeah, at the individual level, there is great variance. But there are still strong patterns. Most FtM trans seem to want to escape social expectations of womanhood rather than really be a traditional male. OTOH most MtF trans seem to relish strong gender roles, but they just think they want the female roles. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 03:39 PM |
| 2 | Is FTM transitions a good example of male loneliness comparative to female loneliness?I've been banned twice for saying things about trans lol And generally very respectfully. But I never learn. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 03:15 PM |
| 4 | Is FTM transitions a good example of male loneliness comparative to female loneliness?I think the male burden is typically a lot harder for the typical male than the female burden is for the typical female. But women also have greater reproductive costs as well. They are also more vulnerable physically. Hard to add up who is more disadvantaged. But when you are an atypical female, the female burden can really fuck with your head for sure. Like you said, you start to feel like society wants to own your beauty or something. My belief is that there is a kind of trauma reaction to a … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 03:13 PM |
| 3 | Is FTM transitions a good example of male loneliness comparative to female loneliness?Because Norah is still a biological woman. So she is experiencing some aspects of male loneliness, but through female 'eyes'. In fact, this may have led her to exaggerate how bad it is. Not that it is great for men, but it is kinda a hell sentence for most women. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 03:05 PM |
| 7 | Is FTM transitions a good example of male loneliness comparative to female loneliness?Just as there is a unique male burden of performance, this is the female one. Be as pretty as you can. Don't be vulgar. Sit like a lady. And so on. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 03:03 PM |
| 24 | Women like men who know more about relationships than they do.Again, women don't really give a shit how you got the skills. They just want the desired traits. Emotional intelligence. Ability to navigate relationships. All valued. They don't care if you are a natural or learned it or whatever. Women like to look up to and admire their man. Now, in terms of how that translates to relationship dynamics and 'leading', well that gets complex. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 02:41 PM |
| 0 | Men's hatred/disdain for women is due to one simple fact..they don't understand them.A lot can happen AFTER the sex drive is sufficiently fulfilled, though. It's a drive. It doesn't always make sense. Often the want and willingness to sacrifice for it is stronger than the actual sexual pleasure justifies. But once sufficiently met, a lot of good things can happen. Love, however you define it. Companionship. So on. Most guys. Even young guys. Just THINK they are all about getting laid. But they are just deranged by an unmet primal desire. Most, once they do get laid, start to see… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 02:24 PM |
| 2 | Men's hatred/disdain for women is due to one simple fact..they don't understand them.Hmm...interesting if somewhat dark take on men. I was thinking of the more straightforward issue for women in that when we have more babies, they have to have them. This is a different direction. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 11:39 AM |
| 1 | Men's hatred/disdain for women is due to one simple fact..they don't understand them.Well, if we really are overpopulated, then the birthrate 'problem' is in fact the solution. And when we get to a sustainable population level, birthrate goes back up. It's just not at all clear to me this is what is going on. I'm doubtful as to how truly overpopulated we are. I also have doubts that, even if we were overpopulated, that is what is driving the TFR crash. But I have an open mind. I dont think anyone understands the TFR issue. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 11:37 AM |
| -1 | Men's hatred/disdain for women is due to one simple fact..they don't understand them.I would say that most men intuitively feel that men and women are supposed to pair up widely with those of relatively similar mate value to form families. So I guess the real male complaint is that women, when 'free', seem to be becoming too sexually selective for this widespread monogamy paradigm to work. I think that in time men could adapt to women choosing men 100% on looks--or even ear and nose size if they wanted--so long as women paired widely and 'fairly'. The idea that a 50th percentile… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 07:23 AM |
| 7 | Men's hatred/disdain for women is due to one simple fact..they don't understand them.I think the main complaint is that in men's minds modern women are becoming TOO selective. Even somewhat sophisticated men get that women's greater reproductive costs mean they should be MORE selective than men, but a lot of men feel women today have gone past that threshold in aggregate. Of course, the counterarguments are also valid. Primarily, there is the argument that nothing has really changed substantively in terms of female selectivity--the internet is just making it seem so. There's als… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 07:14 AM |
| 0 | Men's hatred/disdain for women is due to one simple fact..they don't understand them.Men and women are very different. Racial and ethnic groups hate one another for far less differences than gender differences. On the other hand, unlike population groups, you cannot separate men from women. So the genders also have a lot that bind them. This was the error in trying to treat gender like class, race, etc. The genders cannot be separated. Male sexuality is obviously more straigtforward than female sexuality, with far fewer internal tensions and contradictions, especially in a novel… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 07:01 AM |
| 1 | Which is harder? Stay-at-home Parent? Or sole-provider for a family?Feels pretty close at this point. But those kids gonna get older and life at home easier, while the worker's body just gets older and things get harder. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 01:24 AM |
| 6 | Which is harder? Stay-at-home Parent? Or sole-provider for a family?Exactly. If you have triplets, being a SAHM when they are a year old might be like a tour in Vietnam. But kids age. So having 3 twenty-five year olds isnt so hard. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 01:22 AM |
| 5 | Which is harder? Stay-at-home Parent? Or sole-provider for a family?It is entirely contextual. One can surmise that if you have a sole provider, then there is a a good chance that the job pays well and is likely somewhat difficult. But of course maybe that isn't true and the family is just living cheaply off of one average job's paycheck. Similarly, being a SAHM is contextual. What ages are the kids? How many? But in general there is not enough truly productive work for a woman to do at home for her whole adult life. So in some overall sense, given average famil… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 01:20 AM |
| 2 | Most men allow themselves to be used by women just to get sex and validation in return.Not sure that is true. But it is a pretty dark take on the genders. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/04/24 05:01 PM |
| 2 | Most men allow themselves to be used by women just to get sex and validation in return.If men are that innately bad on such a large scale, then humanity is just fucked. Women should basically not care about the future of the species since any future will just involve mass abuse of women by men. Women should just have a children IF they happen to find one of the few good men, and they both happen to want to have kids for their own sake. But don't worry about society, humanity or anything like that because it is doomed by men's innate aggression and immorality. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/04/24 04:44 PM |
| 1 | Most men allow themselves to be used by women just to get sex and validation in return.Hmm...this is a case where it is hard to fully get your argument without some ballpark numbers. The worst men are worse than the worst women, in general. Male variability theory cuts both ways. So there should be more men who are cut out of the mating game than women, beyond the whole 'wombs have value; sperm is cheap' thing. But I'm not sure I grasp the kinda numbers you are talking about, and to what extent you think the cause is genetic or environmental. You seem to be suggesting maybe MOST m… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/04/24 03:03 PM |
| 2 | Most men allow themselves to be used by women just to get sex and validation in return.At the end of the day, you need women to pair with men and have kids at a sufficiently high rate. Women depend on a functional society as well. Mating is not an entirely personal decision--society has a stake, too. Now, within such parameters, there is room for women to be more sexually selective than men, and a lot more sexually excluded men than women. But it can only go so far. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/04/24 12:52 PM |
| 0 | Most men allow themselves to be used by women just to get sex and validation in return.If Esther Vilar had a point, it seems likely it was only relevant for a certain demographic at a certain time. Maybe UMC and higher post-WW2 there was a point where domestic technology and small families (due to low infant mortality) probably made being a SAHM for a woman's whole life easier than working. But even then, a lot of women wanted to work over being a SAHM. So unclear what was going on. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/04/24 12:11 PM |
| 3 | How many men who feel like women reject “nice guys” would proudly treat their girlfriends and wives like princesses and simp for them?It's harder than that because the kind of long term affection you are talking about rarely happens naturally. It is built. BUT as you say, not every man will have the potential to build that with you. So you have to find a guy who wants to build that, and who can with you (and you with him). But this is hard to test at the beginning because that kind of love takes time to create. So you somehow have to test for the potential. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/04/24 10:32 AM |
| 10 | How many men who feel like women reject “nice guys” would proudly treat their girlfriends and wives like princesses and simp for them?Men are not angels, but they respond to incentives, like women. Probably most men would treat their woman like a queen if they could do it. But this tends to happen in the beginning of a relationship. During that infatuation phase, men don't simp for women, they simp for themselves. It feels great simping for a woman you are infatuated with. But I think women know this. They may even feel that they are always on a clock. When will the youthful infatuation end? When will the youthful glow of my l… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/04/24 04:39 AM |
| 1 | The men actively raving about the need for subservient women are, ironically, the most prone to being used by womenI would say that deep down, most guys just want an escape from the dominance contest of life when they get to their home. They don't want a wife who is competing with them for power, particularly if the man is in a double bind: If he loses a power contest at home, he also loses her attraction. Men especially hate it if the woman somehow views the power balance in the relationship as representative of the male/female power balance in general, and is thus not just fighting for her own influence, b… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/04/24 04:19 AM |
| 1 | The entire “if a girl is really into you, you’ll know and there is nothing that can dissuade her” narrative really needs to die already. This is completely false, and is misleading generations of men.I mean it is technically behavior that is associated with males low in the male dominance hierarchy, and in many species. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/04/24 06:24 PM |
| 5 | The entire “if a girl is really into you, you’ll know and there is nothing that can dissuade her” narrative really needs to die already. This is completely false, and is misleading generations of men.Sometimes men and women miscommunicate and opportunities are missed. Happens. But being all in one's head about whether a girl likes you is innately low-value behavior. People of lower status become desperate for any sexual or other relevant opportunities and will take what seem like inordinate risks to pursue even the hint of one. This is logical in a way as such people rarely get such opportunities. But if you want to level up in aspects of life, sometimes you need to manually override these n… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/04/24 03:41 PM |
| 2 | Study shows men view their ex partners much more fondly than women do, matches up with my experience. What are your thoughts?Agree. Too many male posters act like men are so much more selfless by nature than women. But what really happens is that during the infatuation stage, especially with a young, attractive and neotenous woman, the chemical soup in the male brain makes doing shit for her feel great. It's a huge high. So in our own way, men are also following our male tingles and feelings during the start of a relationship. It is just that what creates those tingles is more consistent and straightforward. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/04/24 04:33 PM |
| – | Where does the belief that women only show interest in/ have sex with men in the top 20%, but then later settle for the bottom 80% come from?It is based in the fact that females are almost by definition more sexually selective, and that Pareto-like distributions can show up in many places. They are quite natural. Women are hypergamous and they have an attraction to male rank that is not really reciprocated. Pareto-like distributions started coming up in some Online Dating data with respect to female preferences and many in the manosphere took this too far. Ultimately, 80/20 cannot technically be right because it is a purely quantitat… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/04/24 04:18 PM |
| 3 | Study shows men view their ex partners much more fondly than women do, matches up with my experience. What are your thoughts?Not saying it is true, but it should be more considered as a possibility. Occam's Razor would suggest that maybe the simple reason that men remember their female exes better than the other way around is that women treat their partners better and/or provide more value with the relationship than the other way around, on average. This would dovetail with an Occam's Razor explanation of why women initiate divorce more: again, because men are doing more of the bad shit. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/04/24 03:50 PM |
| 5 | Who/what is maintaining the higher beauty standards for women?Well, like women, men have standards and preferences. No standards on a global level, but they do exist on an individual level. Otherwise, you pretty much nailed it. In such a feedback loop, it is unclear how much responsibility the target gender has for the degree of intersexual competition of the other. In a holistic way, as citizens and not a member of a gender, we all bear some for the interesexual competition levels of both genders. While women are re-weighting their mate choice criteria wi… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 02/04/24 03:15 PM |
| 14 | What is a traditional women in your view and is it feasible in modern times?Traditional just means believing in gender roles and filling them to the extent possible. Women always did productive labor. There was a weird blip in the West where women did less productive labor than before, though the way we set up the nuclear family, the childcare labor they were doing was extra hard for the number of kids. But it soon became geopolitically uncompetitive not to exploit one's female human capital. A couple that loves and respects one another should be putting in equal effort… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 02/04/24 09:09 AM |
| 0 | OK, so older men are gross and younger women only want their money... why is it assumed that women their age are different, considering how out of the game many of these men were when they didn't have money?People's ability to find others scales (imperfectly) to their own self-perceived attractiveness levels. This is often left out of the 'change your standards' discussion. There is some plasticity here. One's predisposition to try to find someone attractive or try to find them unattractive has a huge effect, though there are limits. Men do age better than women sexually, though the Wall has been weaponized and overdone. However, there is cultural pressure . influence for young women to not find ol… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 02/04/24 03:26 AM |
| 1 | Why do progressives/feminists rarely object to grooming standards for men?I dunno. Depends on the girl's hair coloring. Long, dark black leg hairs on a girls shins, like you would see on a guy, are instant boner killer for me. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 03:12 PM |
| 2 | Why do progressives/feminists rarely object to grooming standards for men?I have no issues with pubic hair or armpit hair. I have lived in East Asia and seen it all. But for some reason leg hair is a total turnoff. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 02:54 PM |
| 2 | It's a good idea for men to get practice girlfriendsDepends. Any benefits are more than outweighed by the self-harm of being a purposeful manipulative asshole. So if you can get a practice GF without being evil, or hurting her, great. If not, try something else. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 01:32 PM |
| 2 | Men’s standards are just as problematic as women’s.When they talk about wanting relationships in the abstract, they aren't necessarily thinking about the kinds of men they can realistically land. You get a revealed preference dynamic when certain women do have to choose between what they can get or sitting things out. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 11:08 AM |
| 1 | Men’s standards are just as problematic as women’s.Well, whether women's standards are realistic, and what 'realistic' even means, is an open question IMO. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 11:07 AM |
| 4 | Why do progressives/feminists rarely object to grooming standards for men?Yeah, well I don't really like dealing with the more extreme views and view holders. Most women who object to any grooming standards for female body hair are probably lesbian separatists who don't care about men at all, or any kind of gender fairness/balance in these respects because they feel men are so innately predatory to women there can be no balance. They just want women to ignore men and don't really care what women do. Or they are hippies who have to grooming standards for either gender. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 10:20 AM |
| 20 | Why do progressives/feminists rarely object to grooming standards for men?I guess the counter argument would be that women are way, way ahead of men when it comes to grooming. The argument against male grooming standards for women isn't necessarily that there be NONE; it is more about what they are and how comprehensive and troublesome they are. So I guess the the overall counter to what the OP is saying is that women just want men to start doing the basics, whereas women are way beyond that and could dial some of it back and we'd still not have gender equality here. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 09:53 AM |
| 1 | Would men do the same in the current dating market?Men would likely do the same. Maybe worse. However, more men would also probably notice and be concerned about data pointing at the possibility of big picture imbalances. More men would be worried about the birthrate. We are all, to some degree or another, prisoners of our culture and the environment when it comes to our individual lives. I don't really blame people, including women, for their individual decisions. However, when a man or woman puts on their 'citizen' hats, I do hold them respons… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 09:50 AM |
| 5 | I am tired of the rhetoric that "the friendzone" "isn't real" and the lack of acknowledgment that both sexes can be toxic in that scenarioIt's unclear how often or much being friends first reduces your shot at a girl you are otherwise attractive enough for. In many cases, it may eventually increase your chances. MANY relationships began as friends first, but in a lot of them, he was already sufficiently attractive to in theory be on the menu. But timing. Other relationships. Options she considered better. All could get in the way. The guy that was a solid 'no' that then becomes a real 'yes' seems somewhat rare. When it does happen… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 08:25 AM |
| 13 | I am tired of the rhetoric that "the friendzone" "isn't real" and the lack of acknowledgment that both sexes can be toxic in that scenarioDepends how you define the FriendZone. If you mean a friend who has romantic feelings that are unreciprocated? Happens all the time. But the original idea was that somehow being friends was preventing a guy from being the boyfriend, and without the friendship, he would have been. This also happens, but is actually quite rare. Most of the time, the one in the zone just was not sufficiently sexually attractive to their 'friend', and nothing about being a friend changes that either way. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 08:19 AM |
| 2 | Men’s standards are just as problematic as women’s.I don't necessarily buy that it being more controllable makes it more or less shallow. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 04:58 AM |
| 1 | Men’s standards are just as problematic as women’s.At some point, if one wants to level up, one has to start ignoring the worst forms of arguments and focusing on the strongest forms. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 04:57 AM |
| 1 | Men’s standards are just as problematic as women’s.I really hope you are right and that women are as committed to finding a hetero partner as men are. Could be true, but I'm not sure at all. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 04:56 AM |
| 2 | Men’s standards are just as problematic as women’s.It was meant to be a BIT hyperbolic, but still, sure. The point stands. But why is your concern about body fat percentage or facial beauty less shallow than her concern about height? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 01:05 AM |
| 4 | Men’s standards are just as problematic as women’s.It takes a lot more than a solid career to land women 10 years younger than you if you are bald and overweight. For sure lol | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 12:59 AM |
| 14 | Men’s standards are just as problematic as women’s.It would be better if everyone understood their realistic chances. That being said, I'm not convinced that women are necessarily as committed as men are to having a heterosexual partner at all. I think many people, especially men, believe that if you disabuse a deluded woman of her delusions as to what kind of man she can actually land, magically her standards will reset and she will choose one of the men she can actually land and be happy with him. Instead, many such women would likely just opt… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 12:53 AM |
| 2 | Feminists try to shame men out of their advantages in the dating marketThe Wall bullshit has been overdone and weaponized. But being ignorant of gender differences in ageing is dangerous. There are reasons why older woman/younger man does not work as well as the opposite. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/03/24 02:47 PM |
| 1 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyOf course. The 10,000 year explosion isn't really evo psych but father just evolutionary genetics. But if right, it may have some impact on evo pysch as it posits our stone aged ancestors as being much more biologically different than the consensus, which means evo psych would have to be much more careful in how it uses info. from prehistory to infer modern evolved instincts. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 07:46 PM |
| 1 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyCool. Will look it up. I'm very familiar with the area, though I don't do hardcore genetics or anything. I'm not that much of science guy. But the hypothesis of the book I just read is very controversial. So it was interesting. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 07:33 PM |
| 1 | Why should women take advice from people who loathe them?I don't even bother defining pills anymore. Not tightly. I mean there is no TRP Bible or Orthodoxy, and major thinkers in the sphere often disagree. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 06:43 PM |
| 1 | Why should women take advice from people who loathe them?Absolutely true lol | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 06:22 PM |
| 2 | The primitive narrative was women searching for love and men looking for sex , and men are to blame for accepting the reputation that comes with itSure. There is a lot of variance here as to percentages. My friend went to HS on the Jersey Shore at the peak of teenage sex and drugs. What he describes is significantly different than what was true in my time and place. It's natural for there to be a lot more sexually excluded men than women. So what we are talking about is how high that percentage is mainly, as well as some more qualitative aspects. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 05:00 PM |
| 1 | The primitive narrative was women searching for love and men looking for sex , and men are to blame for accepting the reputation that comes with itIt's not really about the rom coms. Again, it's more a matter of degrees here or there. And yeah, in a lot of media the nerdy guy in the friendzone didnt get the girl he was after. But he did OK in the end. And maybe they still do. Hard to say. There are definitely some guys who have been deranged by basically being overly exposed to the life of Chad via digital media, and so thinking certain things are natural rites of passage that are a vital experience in every man's life. But the truth is th… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 04:33 PM |
| 2 | The primitive narrative was women searching for love and men looking for sex , and men are to blame for accepting the reputation that comes with ithaha yeah,. We are compatible about the phone, incompatible in every other way. Should work great! | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 04:20 PM |
| 1 | The primitive narrative was women searching for love and men looking for sex , and men are to blame for accepting the reputation that comes with itLOL You one of THOSE women, eh? Text me every hour? I hate texting and I hate phones lol I like meeting people in person, and then when they are gone, they are gone until i see them again. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 04:12 PM |
| 2 | The primitive narrative was women searching for love and men looking for sex , and men are to blame for accepting the reputation that comes with itIt was clearly about controlling social behavior. They were trying to control men, too. Though of course not in the same ways. And yeah, demonizing female sexuality has also been tried, often by the same people. As for the whole 'I was lied to!' argument, of course the extreme versions are bullshit. But I grew up in the 80s and 90s. There were definitely mixed narratives about female sexuality. As in most things, it wasn't about absolutes but degrees along a continuum. How important was looks? H… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 04:05 PM |
| 2 | The primitive narrative was women searching for love and men looking for sex , and men are to blame for accepting the reputation that comes with ithaha NP. We sorta kinda agree on something maybe. Yay! | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 04:01 PM |
| 2 | Madonna/wh*re complex is why so many marriages end up being sexless.Fair enough. Both are issues. Not really sure on accepted definition of deadbedroom tbh. It's possible that we have unrealistic sexual expectations of women in monogamous relationships, especially as they age. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 03:59 PM |
| 3 | Madonna/wh*re complex is why so many marriages end up being sexless.Yeah, but the real deadbedrooms aren't just about a libido mismatch. They are often about sex basically being over. I agree that many men cause the deadbedrooms, too. But not sure a reddit sub is representative of the overall gender ratios on this. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 03:22 PM |
| 1 | Why do so many women insist that the bar is so low?TRP thinkers were right about a fair amount of things on the individual level. But this doesn't necessarily scale. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 03:10 PM |
| 5 | Madonna/wh*re complex is why so many marriages end up being sexless.Maybe. But most deadbedrooms don't start that way. If they did, then both partners would be fine with deadbedroom and no issue. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 03:09 PM |
| 1 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyI guess we are miscommunicating. No desire to relitigate the past. I'll start again. Evo psych uses evidence from the past and the present to talk about behavior in the past and the present. Evo psych does not think that genetically-based instincts solely determine behavior. Not now. Not in the past. Not ever. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 02:01 PM |
| 4 | Why should women take advice from people who loathe them?No, I was thinking about the best marriage age primarily in terms of fertility. Having kids before the fertility window closes. Being young and energetic parents. Having relatively young grandparents and the advantages of that. There are other considerations, such as gender dynamics. If women are unmarried for too long after they are sexually mature, then promiscuity tends to set in. Or they are more likely to have slept with guys hotter than their eventual husband. Or you will get too long a pe… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 01:33 PM |
| 2 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyI think you are conflating two things. You asked me if evo psych is concerned at all with the behavior of people still alive, and I said that is the point of evo psych. Buss is just saying that our evolved instincts--even if we could perfectly isolate and articulate them--by no means determine behavior on their own, now OR at any point in the past. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 01:13 PM |
| 3 | Why should women take advice from people who loathe them?I'm being a bit casual with 'we' lol But here I am talking very generally about humanity. I take it as axiomatic that the species must continue above almost anything else. If anyone wants to argue that there are good but possibly temporary reasons for X polity to run below replacement TFR for awhile, that is a different story. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 12:50 PM |
| 0 | Why should women take advice from people who loathe them?We only need 2.1 kids. And with low mortality rates and various factors suppressing Malthusian constraints, if we had even 3.0 for too long, we really do get an overpopulation problem. We need to hit a narrow window. Thus, I'm not sure we need or want marriage and kids at 20. But 30 is still too old. Maybe ~24-25 is good now. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 12:38 PM |
| 1 | A problem with evolutionary psychologySure. I don't follow the relevance of this citation. Might be the weed. I smoke too much. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 12:23 PM |
| 1 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyI'm too lazy to go Googling. But pretty much the point of David Buss' work is to explain people TODAY with reference to instincts that evolved over time. One of his post-Docs, William Costello, who does a lot of podcasts, is even an expert on Incels. That is pretty modern. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 12:19 PM |
| 12 | Why should women take advice from people who loathe them?Sure. If it's one person, it is very contextual. And even in a culture badly set up for it, you can still try to counter those problems and reap the innate rewards if you go about it the right way. That said, it does seem clear that right now marrying really young for most people is a bad idea. AT least statistically. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 12:13 PM |
| 10 | Why should women take advice from people who loathe them?You really shouldn't pack a discussion OP with some many arguable points presented as fact. It is not clear that non of this advice actually benefits women, nor is it clear that TRP hates women. As to the point at hand, one mistake that many 'tradcons' or 'TRPers' make is not understanding that what might be good for a person in more ideal circumstances is not always good for them in actual conditions. For example, I do think we want people to marry and have children earlier. And if set up right… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 11:51 AM |
| 0 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyI disagree in that evolutionary psych is all about our current psychology. It is just using an evolutionary lens explain and test what aspects of that psychology they explain. The hypothesis I am considering is not a sea change if true. It just suggests that more care needs to be taken when applying evidence from the far past to the modern day, or from one population to another. The hypothesis suggests modern populations are more different from one another, and from ancestors, than may be the ca… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 11:40 AM |
| 1 | Would you be able to continue your LTR if She Tells you were the second choice and She dated you Just because you asked First?I would laugh. Life is like that. Just because you were her second choice doesn't mean you weren't her best choice. Now, if she is saying this to hurt you then that is a different issue. But if it just came up, it's funny. In marriages and really LTRs I know, eventually most get to a place where they do share secrets about what they were thinking during the early days. And sometimes they are secrets like this. No big deal. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 11:13 AM |
| 0 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyI have read evo psych. And the OP already seems too long. Relax. We just talking here. Trying to start a conversation. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 09:52 AM |
| 1 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyIt's all on a continuum. The point would be that if this book's thesis is correct, then the degree of difference between current populations, as well as between humans in 2024 and all humans in 50,000 BC, is much greater than is conventionally assumed. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 09:46 AM |
| 1 | If men go away women would not look backSure. I've seen it. It has been looked at here on PPD a million times. At the end of the day, it is social science so you have to interpret it with more than a grain of salt. In other studies, women don't seem to have problems objectively and properly rank ordering male physical attractiveness given the right conditions. So I tend to believe that this data about 80% of men being below average is somehow eliciting something else from women, like they are somehow answering 'Do you find him attract… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 09:26 AM |
| 1 | If men go away women would not look backWell the underlying tone of the Op and other posts here suggests to me an overestimation of how many men are simply undesirable by women. I think that number has naturally grown as women became increasingly free of NEED for a man. But I'm not sure it has grown that much. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 09:14 AM |
| 1 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyIf the book's theory is accurate, it does make me question the relevance of say studying stone age behavior or that of amazon tribes if you are trying to parse nature from nurture with respect to Caucasian sexuality in North America in 2024. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 09:11 AM |
| 2 | What do you think is contributing to the male loneliness epidemic?I think you are on the right track. We have general isolation and atomization going on. But it seems clear from the literature that in these areas, men are the more fragile gender. Women seem to find meaning and purpose more easily and organically than men. I would not say it is only about their ability to have babies. Women find meaning in people and relationships more robustly than men. This is to say that while there are better and worse setups for women in this respect, they tend to make do … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 09:05 AM |
| 3 | If men go away women would not look backYou are prematurely overestimating how sexually selective women are. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 08:53 AM |
| 1 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyMy mistake. I meant behaviorially modern humans, which is basically the Great Leap theory. Anatomically Modern Humans correspond to the 300k figure you are giving. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 08:50 AM |
| 2 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyYou definitely need to filter with a lot of skepticism. I definitely don't view it as science. But at the same time, the products of psychology are worth considering along with many other sources. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 08:44 AM |
| 5 | The primitive narrative was women searching for love and men looking for sex , and men are to blame for accepting the reputation that comes with itI actually think Christian males (with support from relevant females) promulgated the last and currently relevant episode of 'women are more pure, and they are most attracted to goodness'. They presumably had their reasons. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 08:38 AM |
| 1 | A lot of women and men are unaware of their entitlement for the opposite sexYeah, the coolidge effect has been studied in more depth. Lots of interesting articles on it, including how women especially need sexual novelty after a certain time period. Women NEED it more; men WANT more of it. As to how we can adapt, that is an open question. Is there a way to rejuvenate lifelong monogamy? Is there a way to re-engineer our mating and family raising paradigm so that it can be more serially monogamous, and possibly for greater female sexual selectivity, while still taking car… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 07:39 AM |
| 1 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyYou are right. I could have worded that better. What I'm saying is that if the hypothesis of this book is true, the degree of certainty of our evo psych 'best guesses' goes down a lot. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 07:32 AM |
| 2 | Sexual promiscuity alone doesn’t matter.First of all, both genders have evolved asymmetric instincts about the sexual purity of the genders. Both genders view excessive female promiscuity as worse and get an 'ick' about it. Now, the degree of this instinctive aversion that transcends culture is often overstated by many men. But it is there. Beyond that, humans are always operating on imperfect information and looking for various heuristics to help them out. So it is natural that people look at both the raw body count AND the current p… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 07:30 AM |
| 1 | A lot of women and men are unaware of their entitlement for the opposite sexI think most fair people understand that various factors, especially women's higher reproductive costs, make it 'natural' for women to date upwards in SMV rank or mate value percentile. The question becomes 'how much higher'? And you are right to say that many have an unexamined assumption that women should mate with someone in a monogamous dynamic. Thus, it is wrong for women to have overly high standards that they have no chance of finding a partner who meets. It is true that many of these wom… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 07:20 AM |
| 2 | The primitive narrative was women searching for love and men looking for sex , and men are to blame for accepting the reputation that comes with itThere are various places and periods where notions that female nature and sexuality were more 'moral' became popular. Men had to have been involved in that. We still see the remnants of that belief today. This is what makes 'nice guys' who can't get a girl so upset. They were implicitly told that if you do what you are supposed to, you end up with a woman and a family and so on. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 06:55 AM |
| 2 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyIt's more that muddies things considerably because it is quite possible that one population's sexual instincts did evolve considerably far from stone age baseline, while another's did not. But no, it doesn't negate the possibility that some things were universal then and still are. And good evo psych doesnt just make up plausible evolutionary theories. It also has to investigate what holds true now, even with all of modern culture complicating things. But all of this does ask us to be more quali… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 06:36 AM |
| 2 | How come so many guys do not want to go to clubs to get women, even though that is the easiest option?It could be that the guys who can do well at a club also do well at OLD. And OLD is easier for them. Only a small set of men who do well at a club, and better there than OLD. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 05:43 AM |
| 62 | Madonna/wh*re complex is why so many marriages end up being sexless.I think OP is overestimating how common true madonna/whore is. And I think women are the proximate cause of most sexless marriages. Note I said 'proximate' cause because this isn't to say that the man's behavior didn't have something to do with her stopping sex. And I said 'most' because I know that it is not uncommon for the man to be the one who stops wanting sex with her. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 05:34 AM |
| -2 | Redpilled men and virgin women will be incompatible with each otherThere are strong evolutionary reasons why sexual purity is valued more in women, and why there are asymmetric attitudes towards male and female promiscuity. However, these basic instincts then meet culture and environment to form actual attitudes and behavior. Being more concerned about female sexual purity than male doesn't have to translate into wanting virgins. There are cultures where men didn't want virgins--they wanted some other guy to field test her reproductive system first. Prove she w… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 04:09 AM |
| -1 | Why do so many women insist that the bar is so low?TRPers are locked into this inaccurate logic that women only judge men relative to one another. So to them the height of the bar is how sexually selective women are on a relative basis: what percentile rank in mate value does a guy need to be to get say a 50th percentile SMV rank woman, as a base metric. But women evaluate men in many ways, not just relative to each other. So when women say the bar is low, they are talking in absolute terms. They feel today's men have declined from men in the pa… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 03:44 AM |
| 3 | For men, being able to shrug at rejection is paramount in datingI think you do damage to your soul if you get to a place where you are immune to the pain of rejection. Now, Tinder rejection is not the same as in person, of course. I dunno what the solution is. Maybe men just need to be better. Put more effort into being attractive to women, including working smart so they are focusing their effort on things women really do need and find attractive. Then try to meet women more organically. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 03:06 AM |
| 1 | Feminists try to shame men out of their advantages in the dating marketThese things are complex. It isn't as if every 22 year old woman who married a 37 year old man found him 'gross and old', but needed the money. There is a natural aversion to too much male age baked into young women's DNA, but it isn't that strong. And culture plays a role. The Western culture of 'old men are gross predators' has not completely permeated all world culture's. Age can also be a source of status and even sex appeal. Status and wealth can change how a woman sees a man. So the idea t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 02:12 AM |
| 5 | Feminists try to shame men out of their advantages in the dating marketIt is true that feminism and women have pushed a 'old guys are gross' agenda. However, to some extent they were going with the grain here. A lot of large age gap relationships were at least founded on a woman's economic need--a need that is slowly disappearing. This doesn't mean there was no attraction or love. But it does raise the question of whether a much older man was really the best choice for the woman if economic need had not been in the picture. Most large age gap relationships are not … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 11:08 PM |
| 2 | Most of the time when a woman cock blocks her friend at the bar, it is out of jealousy not to “save her” as most women will try to claimMy experience is that the cock blocking happens for a reason. Assuming that the girl you are hitting on does like you, then the main reason friends cock block is that they came with the girl, she is drunk, and they view getting her home as their responsibility. She is on their watch. Their responsibility. She came with them; she's going home with them. Get her contact info. and accept that THIS evening ends at the club. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 10:38 PM |
| 1 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?The world of love is full of mystery. Nobody has it all mapped out. Some people may indeed have 'the ONE' and meet that person and live happily ever after. I'm not sure that this really scales, though.Maybe not that many people have a ONE, or it is too hard to find everyone their ONE, or whatever. But I think if people only married and had kids with 'the ONE' then we'd become extinct pretty fast. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 11:34 AM |
| 1 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?Serial monogamy is where we are going. While humans seem to have accreted layers of sexual instincts that encompass polygamy, monogamy and serial monogamy, our strongest impulses by far drive us to serial monogamy. It took a lot of work and sacrifice and constraint to enforce widespread monogamy, and our culture is not in behavior enforcement game so much anymore. All I am saying is that the literature on divorce is dismal and overwhelming, and calls into question a lot of seemingly sensible int… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 11:25 AM |
| 1 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?People are different. Kids have different sensitivity levels. I was very sensitive, and I would have been better if my parents had divorced earlier rather than when I was 18, even though the level of overt dysfunction was below that which most research suggests is the level at which divorce is better for the kids. And in contrast, my fraternal twin brother was better off because they stayed together. But on the whole, the research is nearly unanimous that staying together for the kids is general… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 11:05 AM |
| 2 | Are people who romanticize the extended family dynamic actually prepared for what it means?The complicating factor here is that a culture is a holistic, interconnected thing. When the extended family trumped the nuclear, many other conditions were different. And as a result, people's psychologies were different. One can argue that perhaps changes in general conditions led to the rise of the nuclear family in the first place. So I guess the point is that imagining life right now, as it is, but with strong extended families can only take you so far. A lot of other things would likely ha… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 09:53 AM |
| 3 | Question for older guys 35+. What is your experience with the wall?Fair enough. Nothing is universally applicable to all people. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 08:50 AM |
| 5 | Question for older guys 35+. What is your experience with the wall?I don't want the sugar thing. That is just prostitution. Look, if you are an older guy who can legitimately pull younger women and have them truly desire you, then it can be tempting to indulge in that for a bit. And nothing wrong with it. But yeah, I like the mental connection more than the physical. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 07:36 AM |
| 8 | Question for older guys 35+. What is your experience with the wall?I think dating women my own age is great. Sure, there is still that unique pull of a woman at peak beauty and neoteny, but it is also kind of an abstraction. It's a nice fantasy, but often the reality feels awkward. I've tried it. Women your own age are plenty attractive and the meeting of minds is very sexy and produces a different, but still strong attraction as compared to being with a 25 year old who isn't actually that interesting. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 07:30 AM |
| 4 | Question for older guys 35+. What is your experience with the wall?The Wall ultimately refers to a biological reality. Men are attracted to both beauty and neoteny (youthful lookingness) in women. As women lose it, male attraction both declines and changes in character. A 40 year old man is attracted to a hot 40-year -old woman. But he doesn't have the same kind of overall romantic, wanna die for you, wanna write songs about you, infatuation that beauty PLUS youthfulness incites in a man. But what the Wall means to dating is very contextual. If you are British … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 07:16 AM |
| 1 | 30 yr old, single women in mediocre jobs, shouldn't expect more than average.Well, specific criteria have changed. But you are asking if she still is a picky in terms of percentile man she will accept? Maybe. Maybe not. And how much would be her and how much social influence is hard to say. That said, it's an assumption that women should be attracted to men they can land, i.e. to men of roughly the same SMV rank. Maybe widespread monogamy is unnatural for women, and they are too selective for that. Thus, especially as you get to the lower tiers of women in mate value, ma… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 03:39 AM |
| 1 | What exactly do women mourn after a heartbreak?This is another 'why can't I be loved unconditionally?' post in disguise. You cannot really separate out the qualities in a lover the way the OP wants. Looked at from a certain angle, pretty much anything we do is self-interested. Do you miss him apart from what he provided? How about, 'Do you miss her, but imagine she was a 500 lbs. land whale who was burned in a house fire?' We do build up something akin to true, non-self interested love over time. It builds in the joints and the spaces around… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 03:11 AM |
| 2 | 30 yr old, single women in mediocre jobs, shouldn't expect more than average.It's all good that we are clearing away blue pill bullshit surrounding women. They are not angels, just human being like the rest of us. But why does doing this seem to also involve forgetting what men are like? Does being 30 and a single Mom hurt you in the dating market, sure. But it's a secondary dynamic to how hot she is. The Wall is real. It is based in biology. But what it means to actual dating is very much dependent on context. In 2024, women aren't marrying guys 15 years older very much… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 02:50 AM |
| 6 | LOOKS WEEKLY DISCUSSION THREADThere is an objective aspect to beauty. There is also a subjective aspect. But ultimately beauty is a great mystery that seems at least partially primal to a subjective-objective split. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 02:39 AM |
| 1 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?You are a ray of sunshine. Never change, Sharp. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 02:30 AM |
| 2 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?I didn't mean any one person acting as if they have no choice about kids. Clearly they do. I meant that neither men nor women should act as if 'everyone' not having kids is just some sustainable option. It isn't OK to go extinct. So we need to figure this shit out. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 11:06 PM |
| 1 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?haha I try to see the issues from all angles and perspectives. Still, at the end of the day, we need kids. Something has to give. The birthrate of modern nations absolutely will go up in time. It's just a question of how. I hope it is a good way and not a bad way. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 11:04 PM |
| 1 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?I would not say most anti-abortion people are intentionally trying to strip women of rights. They really don't see it that way. Now, the anti-contraception people, well, those guys might be different for sure. I also wouldn't necessarily characterize men in the past as being as 'free' as either men or women are today. Was a whole different thing. Anyways, until we get to the Star Trek Universe, resources do remain somewhat scarce. Most people won't get enough money to not work, etc. Having child… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 11:03 PM |
| 2 | What does "insecure" even means?I dunno about that. Women are not shy about this at times, either. The real truth is that it isn't quite symmetrical. Penis - Vagina fit is a thing, and even the Tantrics in India knew this way back when. They wrote about big vagina pairing best with big penis, and small with small, and so forth. But ultimately I don't think big vagina became as much of a thing because (a) it is hidden, so it doesn't have the same impact on aesthetics and arousal that a large penis does. And (b) a vagina that is… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 03:52 PM |
| – | Why not liking sluts is such a big thing for women?You are trying to assemble too many things and reduce it all to one theory. But it is more complex than that. Women have historically policed female sluttiness at least as much as men. There are complex reasons for that. It's also clear that female and male promiscuity are not seen symmetrically by either gender on an instinctive basis. Again, decent reasons for this. However, this also doesn't justify anything as extreme as all women should stay virgin until marriage while the more sex partners… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 03:35 PM |
| 3 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?We don't need 4 kids per woman. It would actually explode the population. With modern technology lowering mortality and keeping malthusian constraints in check, we actually need to hit a narrow TFR window to prevent population explosion or implosion. I don't think women are evil here. Actually, when they know they will be expected to help raise them, go 50-50, and so on, men dont really want more kids than women. Surprise. WHat I object to is men or women acting like simply not having kids as a … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 03:01 PM |
| 1 | Let's talk about tables and the evolutionary purpose of sexual attraction.This is evo psych 101 Nobody sane can disagree with the basics, though as others have pointed out, we are the only intelligent species, and this adds a layer of complication beyond the base impulses. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 02:28 PM |
| 6 | What does "insecure" even means?Not enough that it has become at all symmetrical with small dick. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 02:22 PM |
| 4 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?I'm not missing the point. There could be a million specific situations where divorce is better for the kids. But on the whole, the data is clear. The threshold of dysfunction in a marriage past which divorce produces better life outcomes for the kids than staying together is much higher than most people imagine. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 02:13 PM |
| 1 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?The math is undeniable. If we don't get 2.1 at some point, humanity goes extinct. You can kick the question down the road if you want to posit some temporary overpopulation issue. But when that is done, still need your 2.1 SO barring sci-fi bullshit, only women can give birth. We must have 2.1. Not for men. Not for women. But for us to not go extinct as a species. So what does it take? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 02:10 PM |
| 1 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?I dunno if there is that much of a difference between 0 and 1 and 1 and 2 in terms of how much time it will cost you and how much work competitiveness you lose. And if we are talking about women who actually take real time off work, want some flex hours, and such, then yeah, it can hurt at any job. But it hurts way more if you are competing for partner in Big Law than if you are a civil servant at the DMV. At any rate, though, we have a dilemma. Barring sci-fi solutions, the math is clear. We ne… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 12:50 PM |
| 8 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?To be fair, we aren't talking about asking women to have 8 kids and be a full time SAHM their whole adult lives. We are talking 2.1 here. But you are right. Men don't seem to want to have that many kids, either, if you tell them that they will have to do 50-50 parenting. So it isn't just about the extra sacrifices women would make over men, even in a 50-50 situation. It's also about the lifestyle difference for the COUPLE between having 3 kids and not having any. And then, yeah, there is the iss… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 12:05 PM |
| 1 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?Well, virtually all the relevant literature suggests this is NOT true. The threshold of marital dysfunction has to be quite high for divorce to be better for the kids--when they are kids--than staying together. Even if the parents are 'miserable'. You need real abuse. Open and loud fighting all the time. That kinda thing. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 11:46 AM |
| -1 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?The truth, to me, is that in our current setup, most divorce is in fact brutal to kids. BUT it is not clear that serial monogamy has to be that brutal if you set things up entirely differently. If that is possible. But if we have decided that enforced longterm monogamy in a modern world where we live to 80+ is just too painful for adults, and maybe particularly so for women, then maybe we need to see if we can change the underlying structure of families. The current structure does NOT work well … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 11:32 AM |
| -1 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?I don't have a magic solution here. I'm just pointing out that a lot of people saying it is better for the kids to split up are totally wrong. At the level of dysfunction that couple is at, the old adage of staying together until the kids are in college is in fact accurate. However, you have to balance doing right by kids with doing right by adults, too. The kids will one day be adults. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 11:18 AM |
| 5 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?This is a bit of a cope. The literature has a solid consensus that the threshold of dysfunction past which it is better for the kids if the parents split up is in fact much higher than we think. The more sophisticated argument is a lifecycle one. Yes, stuff that happens in childhood does have a disproportionate impact. That said, kids have to become adults, too. So what good is making their childhood as happy as possible only to force them into 50+ years of enforced monogamy in relationships tha… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 11:05 AM |
| 5 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?I dunno about strictly unaffordable, but in the current setting, it would be a massive redistribution of status and resources to mothers. And if maybe we aren't 'paying' mothers enough now, the asking price also seems too high. It is telling us something is deeply wrong IMO. Women aren't feeling enough desire to have kids, or that there are any real innate rewards to it that are different than 'fatherhood' rewards. So somehow having kids in general is too hard, even though we need less than ever… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 10:53 AM |
| -4 | Where did this ridiculous notion come from that men lack emotional competence because they are only allowed to feel angerNot everyone has become a woke Karen, yet. Thank God. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 10:30 AM |
| 24 | Listening is not the same as agreeing. Why do many woman equate the 2?The faucet spraying water all over the kitchen is not the type of problem where you usually see women talking feelings and men talking emotions. Everyone knows that you gotta turn off the fucking water right the fuck now. It's usually more complex human problems, like a boss you don't get along well with, a friendship going badly, or a relationship issue. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 09:38 AM |
| 5 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?I agree there is some complex interaction here. Not sure it is as strong as you suggest, but maybe. A common complaint I have is when say some men want to end state welfare because it 'replaces' the male role, women counter that such men just want to buy sex then. Basically, they want to be financially more necessary, and so women will pair with them but not actually be more attracted. However, I argue that female attraction is complex. When a guy is more needed, he then tends to get seen as mor… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 09:24 AM |
| 3 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?Well, respectfully, I think you are contradicting yourself. You are suggesting that being in greater demand due to less supply would actually alter the innate character of the remaining men, making them more attractive. But even then, some men will still be unfuckable on absolute terms alone. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 09:11 AM |
| 13 | Where did this ridiculous notion come from that men lack emotional competence because they are only allowed to feel angerI would say that unless it is pathological or creating legit physical fear, male anger is generally more acceptable. It does less to diminish a man's mate value than female anger. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 09:08 AM |
| 2 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?Hmm...well I think 'it's natural' shouldn't be the end of the discussion. Culture usually goes with the grain of evolved instincts, but there are many occasions where culture is specifically trying to counter ingrained impulses, too. But I do agree that in theory it is more important for someone not to be forced into sex with someone they fund unattractive than for unattractive people to get sex, all other things being equal. Though, of course, all other things are never equal. But if base biolo… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 09:05 AM |
| 2 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?Women do not rate men entirely relatively. There is a relative aspect, and complex ways in which other factors like availability, exclusivity, usefulness actually do bleed into and impact raw desire to some extent. But just having less men does not guarantee that women will find the remaining ones sufficiently attractive. Culling men does prevent sexually excluded men from acting up, though. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 08:54 AM |
| 8 | What does "insecure" even means?There's truth to this in general. But dick comments are special and do go towards natural insecurities. There is really no female equivalent to saying a guy has a small dick because it doesn't just call into question superficial attractiveness. It calls into question someone's actual mechanical ability to create pleasure in a partner. ANd also their basic manhood. If 'sloppy' or loose pussy were more common, this would be closer to an equivalent. And it would be devastating to women, too. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 08:42 AM |
| 2 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?BTW did you mean the anti-natalist arguments are bullshit? I didnt follow. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 08:37 AM |
| 5 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?I agree, everyone's sexuality needs constraining no matter what mating architecture you choose. But how much and in what ways are key questions. And I also agree that Darwinian social competition probably does show that widespread monogamy is the most socially stable and socially competitive way to organize mating. BUT. BUT. One could argue that given recent technology changes, what was true before may not be true now. Nobody has tried anything different recently. What if there are other ways, a… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 08:33 AM |
| 20 | Listening is not the same as agreeing. Why do many woman equate the 2?Yeah, this is now cliche advice to men. But I kind of find it treats women like children when maybe they are actually being MORE insightful than men on this, at least in many situations. Women may recognize that a true and lasting 'solution' to various problems first requires that the woman really sort out her emotions and how she feels. So this 'support' is not in contrast to 'solutions'. It is rather the beginning of a process to come to a true solution rather than just pretending we are robot… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 08:19 AM |
| 7 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?Everyone and everything has a price. The issue with the 'pay mothers more' plan that everyone says 'can't work' is that society and potential mothers do not agree on price. Yes, subsidizing motherhood has been tried, but essentially women are saying 'Not enough.' | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 08:10 AM |
| 3 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?But the fertility crisis impacts everywhere. Even those parts of the world with positive growth are trending towards negative at a much faster rate than expected. Plus, there are limits to how much you can immigration a country can handle. Assuming we are not in some temporary overpopulation scenario, you need replacement TFR or close to it eventually. And I agree that people laying the birthrate crisis on a chance in gender dynamics or female behavior are doing so prematurely with too much cert… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 08:09 AM |
| 8 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?People shouldn't have an issue admitting obvious facts, but we are human. So we do. That said, I can understand the reticence to admit the above. See, the above factors are only necessarily true within a given context and cultural setup. However, many women (and usually unconsciously) are sort of wondering whether the entire widespread, enforced monogamy architecture for family creation and child raising basically goes against hardwired aspects of female nature. It may run against their innate l… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 08:03 AM |
| 2 | How easy is it for you to find a romantic partner who doesn’t hold (what you would consider to be) a dogmatic or cultish ideology?Exceptional women drive the feminism buss. As you get closer to parity in terms of advantages/disadvantages when chasing the top, competitive jobs, every last disadvantage gets even more annoying. Just human nature. Now you are really in the running, and you feel every extra pound you have to carry compared to your competitors. Life can be becoming overall tilted in favor of women at the median, but when judged purely using the metrics of power and status and wealth, women trying to 'break the g… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 07:49 AM |
| 10 | Women being immediately drawn to men they see with other women is less about preselection and more about herd mentality/competitiveness.I agree these are not the same thing, but they are both aspects of pre-selection. Whichever does more lifting is contextual. But men are also very competitive, and preselection does very little for men. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 07:07 AM |
| 1 | Is there legitimately an actual correlation with causation to women wearing revealing clothing and promiscuity?I'm sure there is a correlation, though how strong depends on the given culture. But the point of sexual modesty is not really about whether it results in less sexual assault in an easy to see causal train. It isn't even about how much actual sex people in revealing clothes have. Sexual modesty is about a deeper understanding of how humans--men and women-- actually function. Sex is nature's original drug. Like all drugs, it can become addictive and distort the rest of reality if you are not care… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 06:21 AM |
| 12 | Women justify their biases against men all the time, but men are condemned for doing the sameIt's an interesting side point if one gender's complaints are sympathized with a lot more than the other's. It might mean something valid. Or not. But at the end of the day, expecting that these complaints necessarily should be balanced is a version of the Just World Fallacy. We are the only intelligent animals. We have developed moral and ethical systems that go beyond innate, evolved animal instincts. It would be a miracle of coincidence if our evolved moral systems ended up mapping onto innat… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 06:06 AM |
| 1 | Is the objectification of sex just an inevitable part of life?The best argument for prostitution is that it is a 'necessary evil'. I dunno if I buy that, but even if I did, let's all remember that it is an 'evil'. So is porn. It is obvious. But then we face a logistics question. Is the cost of making prostitution (or porn) illegal higher than the benefit accrued from trying to do so? I don't know. With porn, maybe so. It is very hard to really get rid of porn without becoming tyrannical, particularly in a culture where the law is the only socially regulati… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 05:39 AM |
| 2 | What’s your opinion on the 4B movement coming to America?You need 2.1 kids or the population goes to zero. You need to create some sort of stable and sustainable accommodation with men or the society will devolve into a shithole because men aren't going anywhere. Now, if we want to talk about theory, then that would be different. There are many women who argue that when you total all things up, women would be happier in a world without men provided some technological way to handle reproduction had been invented. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 04:35 AM |
| 2 | What’s your opinion on the 4B movement coming to America?4B is not the solution we are looking for. Neither is MGTOW. At best, both are temporary bargaining positions for a gender. Everyone sane knows that at the end of the day, men and women need to work together to create a society. Unless someone has some amazing new idea, we need widespread monogamy for family creation and child raising. We can argue whether we are temporarily overpopulated, but at some point you need 2.1 kids per woman. So the question is (not) simply: How are we gonna get this d… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 01:11 AM |
| 2 | do you all believe that the common English idiomatic expression "settle down" means "settle for"?Well, the Wall and Body Count conversations are where nuance goes to die. Certain elements of the manosphere weaponized these topics as part of a revenge fantasy. In response, too many female posters 'fight their side' and say stupid shit like that the genders age the same way, or oversell the dangers of sperm from older males and so on. The Gender Wars are a wonderful thing. The real truth is that 'the Wall' just refers to a rather sudden loss in raw sexual attractiveness to males of all ages a… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 23/03/24 09:22 PM |
| 1 | do you all believe that the common English idiomatic expression "settle down" means "settle for"?Sorry. Don't really follow what you mean by this. What are women avoiding? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 23/03/24 08:58 PM |
| 2 | do you all believe that the common English idiomatic expression "settle down" means "settle for"?Well, I don't think the reality here is super clear. Clearly this dynamic happens, but it's a matter of extent. How common is it? Is it increasingly common? In which demographics? The Devil is in the details here IMO. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 23/03/24 08:24 PM |
| 10 | do you all believe that the common English idiomatic expression "settle down" means "settle for"?I think many (most?) know the difference between the expressions. It's that there is a common manosphere theory that amounts to women 'settling for' the guy they 'settle down' with a lot more than is commonly believed. At the end of the day, the real question being asked is whether a lot of women in the West end up having less real sexual attraction to the man they marry in their 30s as compared to guys she slept with in her 20s. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 23/03/24 09:19 AM |
| 2 | Men, if you made $1M a year, would you want a bang maid or a 50/50 relationship?It's very contextual. I'm a believer that most modern jobs are shit and soul destroying. So ideally, number one. But the woman would matter more. If the choice were more positive on both ends, I might change my mind. If it were a choice between a woman whose true passions are satisfied by a work/life balance that tilts strongly towards home, and another woman who is in a meaningful field and is truly passionate and in love with her work, I might choose the second. But I'm not typical, and such w… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/03/24 10:37 AM |
| 2 | The "quiet" male revolution.Depends how many check out | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/03/24 01:14 PM |
| 3 | A huge chunk of women find it sexy to feel vulnerable in relationships with explains the appeal of bad boys as well as the appeal of large menThis isn't it. It isn't about being 'vulnerable' really. Liking bad boys, liking to be dominated in bed, and even liking tall guys do share some common causation, but are not entirely driven by the same things. The 'women like assholes' is especially complex if you deep dive into it. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/03/24 12:43 PM |
| 3 | I hear the statement "The bar for men is extremely low these days" a lot in the context of dating, sex, and relationships. Is the bar low for men's looks or personality/character/effort?I have just noticed this miscommunication about what they mean by 'the bar' several times here in PPD. That said, I can't speak for all the women here. Maybe some do have the same meaning for 'the bar' as men, and feel that women are not pickier than men, and less picky than ever. That would be insane. But possible. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/03/24 12:40 PM |
| 3 | Measures to get over a crush.I'm not sure if one can accelerate this bit of male wisdom. But maybe. The thing is that most youthful infatuations are built on hormone and chemical surges. The feelings go beyond just lust, but there is an erotic longing at the core. So what I'm saying is that it is unlikely she was THAT special, she just felt that way because you were hopped up on biological chemicals designed to make you breed. It's possible that she was THE ONE, or one of the few ONES. But unlikely. If she was that special,… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/03/24 12:37 PM |
| 9 | A double standard i’ve noticed with how a notable amount women react to online dating content directed at men vs womenYeah, some women have gone insane about many things. Modern woke politics accelerated feminism off the cliff, especially in the universities. Boys underachieving is a problem. The extent to which education is stacked against them unfairly is hard to determine. It is complex, but there are areas of concern, for sure. Women in the West are clearly not an oppressed group. Whether they are still unfairly disadvantaged overall--or even advantaged--is tough to say. So many variables. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/03/24 12:27 PM |
| 4 | A double standard i’ve noticed with how a notable amount women react to online dating content directed at men vs womenHis post is not really non-sensical. It may suffer a bit, like many arguments, from treating more extreme cases as representative of what is more typical. But there really are a lot of women who have been indoctrinated into nearly insane beliefs, just like the manosphere has done similar things to a lot of men. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/03/24 12:22 PM |
| 11 | A double standard i’ve noticed with how a notable amount women react to online dating content directed at men vs womenDemonstrably may be too strong. It is a complex area making proving something really hard. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/03/24 10:40 AM |
| 4 | A double standard i’ve noticed with how a notable amount women react to online dating content directed at men vs womenThat's true. If it is about something potentially endangering, then for sure it is about differences in impact. And women tend to look at worst case impact on an individual, rather than overall harm. Some female behavior could be a lot more common and thus harmful overall. But if a certain male behavior can, if rarely, lead to murder, then that is what rings the alarm bells. We are all just dressed up apes in the end. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/03/24 07:24 AM |
| 18 | I hear the statement "The bar for men is extremely low these days" a lot in the context of dating, sex, and relationships. Is the bar low for men's looks or personality/character/effort?I think this is a miscommunication. The bar men are referring to is how selective women are about their partner's qualities before they can be attracted to him or sleep with him or commit. I believe the bar women are referring to is the actions a man needs to perform and conditions he needs to meet in order to get sex. This presumes an attractive man to the woman in question, and is not about what it takes to be attractive to her. Rather, it is a comment about how historically even attractive me… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/03/24 05:21 AM |
| 39 | A double standard i’ve noticed with how a notable amount women react to online dating content directed at men vs womenA lot of women believe that life in the West is still advantageous to men, and many believe it is still overwhelmingly so. If one believes that, it is human nature to worry more about negative stuff aimed at the oppressed group than negative stuff aimed at the oppressors. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/03/24 05:16 AM |
| 2 | Question: If a woman asks for a divorce over emotional needs, is it okay to divorce over physical needs?Context is key hear. What kinds of emotional needs? How would a man meet them? What kinds of physical needs? How would a woman meet them? It is definitely acceptable to divorce if you aren't ever having sex. But you also have to be realistic about sexual expectations. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 10:55 AM |
| 0 | Women, what's something (behaviour, presentation, expression) traditionally seen as "feminine" that you find attractive in men? Men, what's something traditionally seen as "masculine" that you find attractive in women?haha though if we push 'traditional' hard enough, long hair is for men too! | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 08:14 AM |
| 1 | Why would women be jealous of a young woman getting married, if they want to ride the CC instead?To the extent the CC is real and desired, it is just the 'least bad' option. Basically, it is a pessimistic take that when freed of the need to trade resources for sex, innate female sexual selectivity is actually very high. Thus, there just won't be that many attractive men around. Most women do want to meet and commit to the perfect guy. But if they cannot land or find one, then being able to fuck around with hot guys when young, and possibly land one, beats being forced to be celibate or fuck… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 07:27 AM |
| 1 | How to handle her desire to deeply connect and sleep with other guyYou may have causality wrong. Of course, women are not a monolith. And their sexuality is complex and filled with internal tensions, especially in a novel environment they were not evolved for. But often, if a woman is sharing dark secrets with a guy, she may be doing so because she is already connected and she feels an attraction. Not sure how often it works the other way around and the actual sharing of the secrets builds the sexual attraction. As for the OP, what is it really asking? Will you… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 07:21 AM |
| 2 | Is there an epidemic of straight Millenial/GenZ women falsely claiming to be lesbians?Most of what you claim are red flags for fake lesbians I have found to be true of real lesbians at various stages of their lives. It is true that Lesbian communities tend to eschew men more than gay male communities eschew women. But this never stopped them from complaining about men--maybe because most Lesbians can never fully weed men out of their lives. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 07:16 AM |
| 3 | Men only have importance to women as providers.Esther Villar is a trip. Always provoking; but a little nuts, too. Male, not female, preferences tend to ultimately hold sway in how women dress. But yes, it is indirect and women are thinking of other women when they dress. That is true. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 07:10 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat Megathreadhaha interesting. The issue for women, though, is that generally anything done to keep a man in check is not good for her actual attraction to that man. Some have argued that this is part of the essential tragedy of evolved female mate choice priorities. What is sexy to them may well not be good for them. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 05:45 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadYou sound like a FtM trans experiencing Testosterone therapy for the first time. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 05:41 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadWill evolved men be as viscerally attractive to women? Or will women continue to complain that men don't do their part and haven't adapted, while sexually rewarding the more ancestral-like alpha guys? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 05:30 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadNot mad. She just factors in those types of flatter distributions for males into her overall analysis. In fact, she feels it is the right tailed men (for which women have no real equivalent) that even make men worthwhile and on par with women overall. Take them away and we are just inferior women in the modern era. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 05:23 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadMaybe lol Was a fun convo, though. Older people often do not give a fuck. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 05:22 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadIt is hard to parse the extremes vs. typical when it comes to men. Not like I agree with my Mom on all the details here. Just was shocked to see such strong and curated opinions from her. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 05:06 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadOFC looks always mattered, even for men. But they were not the status symbol they used to be, which greatly amplifies their effect. On the other hand, as some posters have noticed, this double counting of looks (once for just hotness and twice for status) kinda does an imperfect replication of taking us back to the era our instincts evolved for. The argument here is that while looks would not have been status in the Stone Age, they would have been much more correlated with status due to other fa… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 05:05 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat Megathreadmaybe. dont think so, though. but maybe. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 05:00 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat Megathreadlol yeah, though she does hate Chad. She like handsome men, but thinks its a sign of male degeneracy that male appearance is being given such status now instead of mocked by other great men. A sign that men have nothing left to offer if being handsome gets you status among men and women like it does now, instead of laughed at as a pretty boy. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 04:57 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadWell, this was her other point. She does believe the genders are roughly 'equal'. But she is a big 'male variability' proponent. She feels men don't account for just how good life is for top men when they say that things are female centered now. Her argument is that even though relatively smaller in number, life is so good for the top 20% or 30% of men that it really does move the overall needle. Moreover, she takes it further. Hypergamy of various sorts is needed because most average and below … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 04:53 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadShe's smart, but wasn't expecting her to be this ready for TRP-style convo. Her opinions are...strong. She was like 'No matter what needs to be said in public, don't think us women have forgotten 10 thousand fucking years of exploitation. We have not. It goes beyond any anger. The fact that men exploited us more than was needed by biology--more than we would have exploited them if somehow women had had the power--simply reveals true male nature. And, as an aside, we are still pissed. All of us. … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 04:44 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadMY 75-year old Mom is fucking pink pilled. She told me that men are naturally greedier, lazier and more unfair than women. Beyond even the inevitable factors associated women's 'disadvantaged' biology, men have always made sure that life is easier for them than women. In her opinion, men (in general) have never been able to even their contributions in a relationship once the need for a man to risk life and limb regularly actually defending his mate, children and tribe was gone. Outsourcing to an… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 04:36 AM |
| 2 | In today's age, do people truly believe that a man's "resources" are really that important?Money and prestige are huge benefits to that senior partner in the dating arena. And you neglect the way that status and accomplishment impact how a woman looks at a man in many ways. Sometimes it can just be very temporary and local status. Like the office grinder who is in charge of a convention one weekend and seeming more attractive because he is MCing and in charge. Another thing that is happening is that male looks are in some ways being double counted compared to other areas. Male looks a… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 04:24 AM |
| 1 | Why are women so keen on having male friendsThe problem is that in English, 'friend' covers too much ground. Most women I know do NOT have close male friends the same way they have female friends. Those friends women did have, they had when younger and were more like 'good time facilitator' acquaintances. Males have a talent for getting more bored than women and inventing shit to do. Younger women I know liked having that around. Didn't mean he was truly her bestie the way her female BFF was. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 04:02 AM |
| 5 | In today's age, do people truly believe that a man's "resources" are really that important?This modern idea that you can draw bright lines between a woman being truly desirous of you sexually and a woman trading sex for resources, status, lifestyle, security, etc. is ultimately wrong. Yes, there are these different poles: sexual desire vs. desire to be in your life for the advantages you offer. But female psychology is complex, as are evolved instincts. Money and status actually are sexually exciting to a certain degree to women. But beyond that, being needed and powerful and capable … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 03:56 AM |
| 2 | Disregarding appearance, modern dating dynamics naturally select for emotionally unavailable menWomen don't select for emotionally unavailable men. They select for emotionally strong men whose somewhat different emotional makeup complements innate female emotionality. Women have always selected for this when possible. Men select other men based on this, in the male hierarchy. In fact, it actually aligns with male nature. Men just need to figure this shit out. There are many situations where the novel modern environment is in tension with some aspects of our evolved instincts. And so we nee… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 01:24 AM |
| 3 | The best and most healthy relationships in the real world usually involve women who are crazier for their male partner than the other way around.Yes, since nothing can be equal, it is closer to the ideal for women to have the stronger feelings. But they probably should be close. This is really an off-shoot of basic hypergamy where it is more important for the woman to admire (in certain key qualities) the man than the other way around. On the other hand, the vast majority of relationships are not ideal and will not approach the ideal. A lot of women raise a valid point that hedging the risks is more important to them than trying to achie… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 01:18 AM |
| 2 | The real wall is menopauseThe Wall is ultimately the loss of raw male attraction that a woman suffers when she loses neoteny and beauty. Even when she remains very attractive, as age creeps into her appearance, the neoteny factor wanes and men treat her differently. Still sexy and desirable, but less of that 'I'm madly in love with you. Would die for you. Will do anything for you.' Technology and lifestyle have pushed the Wall back a bit and made the decline less steep. Less sun exposure. Less early pregnancies and breas… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 01:13 AM |
| 1 | Red pillers are delusional beyond helping, and none of their statements make senseThe self-improvement part is the most coherent aspect of TRP. One might ask what the OP's expectations are? Nobody said TRP will take someone with the worst genetics and have them banging the Swedish bikini model team. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 12:50 AM |
| 5 | Men of this sub, do you believe that most men have practically no standards?What's the difference between a standard and a preference? Men have preferences. A standard is a threshold that, if not met, you will walk, and/or feel no actual sexual attraction. Men very much have preferences. Their actual sexual attraction floors tend to be much more plastic than women's. The less options. The more time without a partner. The lower that floor will go. A lot of men have basically no standards for casual. Relationship standards are higher, but again, more flexible than you thi… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/03/24 11:58 PM |
| 1 | David Buss and flaws in the Dual Mating Strategy hypothesisI don't think dual mating requires ovulatory shift to have some validity. Buss's ultimate conjecture is that dual-mating, when possible, is not necessarily inconsistent with female instinct. The problem is that men mate guarded too well. True dual mating was generally too dangerous in history, so instead women had to go with mate switching. So it is possible that Buss is generally right, but that Rollo is not entirely wrong. Perhaps in today's environment where dual mating is easier to pull off,… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 17/03/24 09:15 PM |
| 13 | Does the "friend zone" mainly consist of males? If so, why?Because the feminist meme that 'friendzoned' guys (real FZ is rare, but whatever, you know what I mean) are these calculating manipulators trying to ignore female agency is total bullshit. The vast majority of guys in these situations are semi-clueless and young. They caught feels. They bought into various messages about how decency and loyalty and love are the keys to getting a girl. They are in love with their friend, or close enough. So fucking them, and getting that much closer to the real r… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 15/03/24 08:02 AM |
| 9 | Does the "friend zone" mainly consist of males? If so, why?Until recently at least, women were more naturally red pilled about these things. They knew their level better. Most FZs are just a guy thinking that because he has an emotional connection with a woman and they enjoy each other's company that this overrides the sexual competition aspect of mating. They are wrong. Women always knew this, though recently some seem pretty deluded about their level and are getting fuckzoned, which is just the friendzone plus sex. Men in the friendzone think this is … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 15/03/24 06:04 AM |
| 2 | The "All women are 10's" phenomenon - How Male competition (overt) and female competition (covert) works and why female cooperation is leading women to delusionEmotions are not reliable. But they are also the only thing that makes anything worth doing. So they are the only game in town. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 15/03/24 03:47 AM |
| 2 | The "All women are 10's" phenomenon - How Male competition (overt) and female competition (covert) works and why female cooperation is leading women to delusionThat's too much Mr. Spock for this full human. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot going wrong with how far some women take this concept of using emotion to regulate other emotion. This is especially true for the cherry picked girls in manosphere ragebait videos. I'm just saying we should remember that building up once's confidence, psyching oneself up, etc., are also real things people do. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 15/03/24 03:27 AM |
| -1 | Maybe a lack of third spaces isn't the issue - society has just become more puritanical about where/when this is acceptableYes. Women should be able to be in many spaces and know that they will not be approached by strange men very often. OTOH women should then work with men to help figure out how best men and women should meet up and be introduced. It ain't OLD. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 15/03/24 03:09 AM |
| 2 | The "All women are 10's" phenomenon - How Male competition (overt) and female competition (covert) works and why female cooperation is leading women to delusionThank you. You inspired my own post on the matter. Women know that sometimes you need more than logic and objective analysis to keep your own emotions in the right order. When did men get so autistic they forgot this? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 15/03/24 01:15 AM |
| 13 | The "All women are 10's" phenomenon - How Male competition (overt) and female competition (covert) works and why female cooperation is leading women to delusionWhile the explicit logic of a lot of the female posts here is totally trash, implicitly they are telling us men a deep wisdom that men in their autistic phase seem to have forgotten. We are emotional beings. Emotions are pretty much what give anything purpose. And guess what? These emotions are by no means under our complete conscious control. Sometimes, to keep things moving right, you have to use one set of emotions to balance out another, even if that means 'lying' to yourself on one level. U… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 15/03/24 01:14 AM |
| 2 | How bad Is in a relationship not being able to orientate/know Places? How bad Is being an inept?Being inept is a dealbreaker to most women. But there is a big difference between being inept at something and being inept overall. This could be a cute and even endearing quirk if the guy is competent and confident overall. If it is emblematic of everything in his life, then he better be really fucking beautiful. And even then... | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 06:19 PM |
| 1 | Unsolicited dick picsThat is interesting. My experience with women is that when you ramp up their sexuality and libido, it doesn't work out the way men hoped. Men think it will turn women into men with vaginas and everyone will be fucking. Like they hoped in the 60s. But when you ramp up female sexuality it tends to--surprise--ramp up along female lines and not male. They often get MORE sexually selective. And they stop being as holistic in their now even more pickier judgment and start to focus on the top men in he… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 05:45 PM |
| 1 | Unsolicited dick picsI never liked nudes even from lovers. Most women I know didn't like dick pics--certainly not ones that were basically a disembodied penis. They didn't mind a well-crafted whole body shot with an erect or semi-erect penis in it. But not some dick with no context shot. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 04:42 PM |
| 2 | Unsolicited dick picsDon't get me wrong. I would never. It's just all wrong all the way around. That said, interesting to try to figure out why this happens. There must be some demographic of women that dick pics helps with. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 04:19 PM |
| 5 | Without the influence of modern culture, men would be more successful with women.The issue here is what are you positing as the baseline or natural cultural conditions? Conditions and cultures always varied. Also, I am not sure about some of your assumptions. A womb has innate value; sperm is cheap and plentiful. There are also arguments that women have evolved to be more attractive than men in some objective way, and not just to men due to make thirst. Women have always cared about a man's productivity because the whole point of the monogamy revolution was that undercooked … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 04:13 PM |
| 3 | manosphere dudes are turning off the very women they are trying attract and seem oblivious to this.Women should more actively engage in these discussions with candor and good faith if they want to help get rid of some of the more toxic aspects of the manosphere. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 03:15 PM |
| 3 | You can't change what you're attracted to. But most people can compromise on certain preferences.I agree that external influence on what women find attractive is strong. This idea that their level of selectivity or the criteria they care about is all biology is total bullshit. However, what too many men fail to understand is how profoundly culture and environment can mold you. They think that if some woman just realizes that she has zero chance of landing any of the men she thinks are on her level that she will magically just be able to be change her programming and become super attracted t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 12:57 PM |
| 14 | Maybe a lack of third spaces isn't the issue - society has just become more puritanical about where/when this is acceptableI don't know if there was some Golden Age of publicly accessible women. But I do know that in the broad scope of history it is rare to make women available to unsolicited male propositioning with no common acquaintance or introduction. I'm not sure this is all bad. We may have to figure out a better way for men and women to get introduced romantically, but it is quite possible women are happier in an environment where men are scared to just chat up any woman they find attractive. Maybe men shoul… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 12:49 PM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadThat's not exactly true. Or rather the big picture where the investment pays off is bigger and more complicated than you make it out to be. The Ukraine war is not about saving Ukraine or making money on weapons or the rebuilding. It's about protecting the post-WW2 order, something that DOES make many nations a lot of money compared to the alternative. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 12:37 PM |
| 4 | You can't change what you're attracted to. But most people can compromise on certain preferences.Yes, culture and environment influence standards, thresholds and preferences way more than people admit here. BUT that doesn't mean an individual can easily change the cumulative impact of all these influences. Not just by 'thinking' and doing it on their own. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 12:32 PM |
| 2 | Unsolicited dick picsIt's possible this is some mass male delusion. But more likely there is some market for this. Someone is getting advantage from sending unsolicited dick pics I guess. I am aware that there is a subculture of fairly promiscuous women that want the dick pic, though often not because it turns them on, but rather because they want to avoid wasting time by quickly disqualifying men who don't meet their penis requirements. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 12:28 PM |
| 3 | Is it true that most people cannot lower their standards biologically?True standards are obviously created by nature AND nurture. So IN THEORY any impact that culture and environment has on standards could be undone. But undoing environmental influences is not as simple usually as just understanding what has happened and then 'thinking' your standards lower. Not how humans work. And here I am talking about TRULY lowering standards such that 6/10s now seem attractive to you when before they did not. This isn't about just going with a less attractive option that is … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 12:54 AM |
| 2 | what people miss when giving advices to men is that men operate in a hierarchy .The idea that women only compare men to one another is a TRP mistake. By this thinking, if all men became magically more attractive by the same amount, it would make no difference. This just isn't true. Women also compare men to absolute standards. To historic ideal of men. To the woman herself, which is what hypergamy is really about at core. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 11:32 PM |
| 1 | Men of the western society, I'd like to know if you're really not able to find even one decent woman out there?This is actually complex. In terms of trying to assess the big picture, unless you are arguing that the inflated female selectivity apocalypse has actually already happened, we are talking about % changes in the SMP that will be significant and impactful, but not necessarily easily seen with anecdotal surveys or touching grass at your local Wal*Mart. But there is also a game of expectations. When presented with the picture of a guy who has several LTRs in his 20s and then marries one, a lot of m… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 10:43 PM |
| 3 | Men's self worth and general perception in society is tied to their success with women.There are certainly levels to this. But there is a large group of guys who will be fairly romantically successful in the ways that matter. They will have a couple of LTRs in their 20s and then marry and have kids. Their lives are probably BETTER for not having been a teenaged fuckboy. But instead, they now believe they missed out on some super special experience that they can never get back. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 10:19 PM |
| 9 | Confidence is a psychological regulator, not a mindset people can toggle on at will.I mean it isn't that clear cut. We are the only intelligent species and sometimes we can override biology to some extent. But yes, nice seratonin levels, confidence, a feeling of well being, etc. are all things that both come with status and contribute to achieving and maintaining it. This is what the clued in people have intuitively understood for ages. It is ALL about relative status. Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven. Better to be poor but the top poor guy than the poorest rich guy… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 08:03 PM |
| 1 | Do the plethora of choices in men when it comes to online dating and social media make it more difficult for you to commit to one man long-term?Yeah. That baffles me. Completely. Like why do you want an actual 'fat' ass? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 07:50 PM |
| 1 | Do the plethora of choices in men when it comes to online dating and social media make it more difficult for you to commit to one man long-term?Perhaps this was a thing when I grew up, but not in my demographic. Maybe it is a newer thing. I just never remember a guy caring about a girl's height unless she was way TOO tall, or like a medical midget. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 07:04 PM |
| 1 | Why are women so aggressively worried about being murdered by men?Right. I teach in China. My students are all going to study in the US for university. They all worry about their safety. When I bring up the stats that the US is actually safer than China, even if you are more likely to die from violence in China, it tends to blow their minds. All they could think about was being shot. Medical quality. Food safety. Road safety. All of those factors were totally lost on them. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 07:03 PM |
| 1 | Do the plethora of choices in men when it comes to online dating and social media make it more difficult for you to commit to one man long-term?Sure. There were better asses, and working out might help get one. But at no point was just adding fat to your ass making it sexier. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 07:00 PM |
| 20 | Men's self worth and general perception in society is tied to their success with women.In an increasingly hedonistic culture, sex obsession naturally creeps in. Erotic capital becomes a key aspect of status for both genders. It is true that women have had a chance to evolve some defenses, such as telling themselves it doesn't' really matter because men are just sex obsessed and immature'. But such psychic defenses only go so far. One of the major issues is that the kind of men who were always undesirable to women have very little refuge later in life where they can still have high… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 03:41 PM |
| 1 | Do the plethora of choices in men when it comes to online dating and social media make it more difficult for you to commit to one man long-term?Fair enough. Though I don't really buy into the 'A' part of 'T&A' usually. I dunno. When I grew up, guys would talk about girls being flat chested, but I never really saw it make much difference in a girl's prospects. And I never saw height be an issue. But heh, things can change. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 03:35 PM |
| 2 | Is it just me, or is the idea that men want women to perform “femininity” largely overblown?I don't think men want lapdogs or women who agree with everything. But men intuitively understand hypergamy to some extent. One aspect of it is that if she wins a fight or carries an argument, it's just one event. But men face double jeopardy. Not only can you lose the issue at hand, but rack up too many losses and you will lose her admiration, then respect, and then attraction. So yeah, men want to avoid too much open conflict at home, especially of the kind that if he loses, he loses overall r… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 11:21 AM |
| 4 | Why are women so aggressively worried about being murdered by men?It isnt even about understanding the odds. We simply evolved to worry more about certain things than others, whatever the relative chances. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 09:55 AM |
| 11 | Why are women so aggressively worried about being murdered by men?Humans are not evolved to really internalize statistics when it comes to threat assessment. We have a ton of cognitive biases that get in the way. So yeah, a woman's chances of being murdered by a man do not really rate that high statistically. But it is exactly the kind of danger we evolved to fear and worry about, partly because there is a feeling that you can control things and limit the danger. What are you gonna do about lightning strikes, viruses, cancer or car crashes, really? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 09:54 AM |
| 0 | Do the plethora of choices in men when it comes to online dating and social media make it more difficult for you to commit to one man long-term?I think that is a bit strongly put. I agree that often more of the stuff that we complain about now also happened in the past than many admit. But that also doesn't mean there haven't also been significant changes in these areas. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 08:14 AM |
| 1 | Do the plethora of choices in men when it comes to online dating and social media make it more difficult for you to commit to one man long-term?I think the whole big ass thing was mostly a meme that really never crossed over that much from the racial communities it was always popular in. If you are fit as a girl, you pretty much usually have a nice ass. Some women, especially Asian, can get that true flat ass, which is unfortunate. But barring that, thin = nice ass for most white people IMO. I wouldn't say petite is a male preference. It beats being too tall. And while there are reports men are starting to care more about female height … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 08:12 AM |
| 2 | Do the plethora of choices in men when it comes to online dating and social media make it more difficult for you to commit to one man long-term?When she is young, maybe. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 08:05 AM |
| 8 | In your experience, is it more common for partners to adopt the girlfriend’s or the boyfriend’s friend group?I agree that this is not super gendered. But when viewing it in aggregate, one gendered aspect is that if someone has no friends or a very underdeveloped friend group, it is much more likely to be the man. To some extent this male tendency is screened out in that not having a friend group is usually unattractive to women. But it still happens often enough, for various reasons. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 05:00 AM |
| 1 | Women’s dating preferences are creating a system of vast inequality in datingWhile we will never be able to perfectly parse nurture from nature, we can often get a pretty good idea of the layout of things. It does matter what is 'natural'. That doesn't necessarily mean we will go along with it, but it helps inform us how difficult or costly constraining certain 'natural' behaviors might be. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 04:57 AM |
| 6 | Would women go redpill if they had to chase and date other women?Having spent some time with Lesbians in my youth, I think a lot of popular culture fails to appreciate that a lot of lesbians and lesbian subculture do have a highly promiscuous youthful phase. Something to do with the lack of danger, from pregnancy, physical strength, etc. But for most of the Lesbians I knew, the U-Haul phase came later. First there was a seriously slutty phase. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 02:40 AM |
| 4 | Would women go redpill if they had to chase and date other women?Mimicking might be the wrong word. But yes, the masculine/feminine duality and polarity makes its way into homosexual dating. That said, Leek isn't wrong to say these archetypes don't get adapted significantly. And they do not always apply across the board. The Butch Lesbian is approximating the male role in SOME aspects of lesbian dating, but that won't mean her role maps onto the male hetero role in all respects. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 02:38 AM |
| 2 | Women’s dating preferences are creating a system of vast inequality in datingYes, and the competitive landscape is different due to technology. That said, the fundamental constraint remains that we must remain competitive whatever changes to the mating system we allow. Unclear whether more female economic independence will allow women to manifest degrees of sexual selectivity that will push this ultimate constraint or not. Some types of increased selectivity may be in women's personal interests, but some definitely are not. Have to see if women can lean into the first an… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/03/24 11:15 PM |
| 7 | Women’s dating preferences are creating a system of vast inequality in datingI wouldnt say that is exactly true. Rather, various social systems competed. Widespread enforced monogamy outcompeted other mating systems. Top men also gave up polygamy. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/03/24 10:53 PM |
| 2 | She has to like you moreThis is the typical ideal, though it is as much or more about female hypergamy and the desire to 'look up to my man' than it is women's greater need for emotional drama. But that said, like a truly hypergamous union, this is just the typical ideal. Not only do individuals vary greatly, but even 'typical' couples for which this would be the ideal cannot always find this kind of match. Nevertheless, couples find their way to happiness all the time when they are not in an 'ideal' relationship. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/03/24 01:51 PM |
| 1 | How would you describe “lady game”?Maybe. But women are not usually breaking out lady game on most men. Still, yes, women need to know their target audience. Some guys who are very successful with women and have a lot of options do get bored. They do like the chase, and so on. But a lot of guys do not. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 06:28 PM |
| 0 | Female Attraction StandardsI don't expect fair. But maybe it isn't unfair, either. Women do have higher reproductive costs. If we invoke fairness, there should be some compensation for that. Hypergamy of some kind is the compensation. In the 'fairness' vein, the question would be whether modern's women's hypergamy is well calibrated to what extra reproductive costs women face. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 05:32 PM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsI guess the counter is, what about those painfully average and uninteresting girls? Are they not the natural matches for the painfully average and uninteresting guys? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 05:12 PM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsI actually do not believe in looking at history as the story of men oppressing women. It is far more complex than that. But I don't really follow what you are trying to add to the discussion on female sexual selectivity here. I have no secret message I'm dying to say but feel too afraid to share. I'm just in exploration mode on this question, as it seems to be one that is very pertinent to our near future. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 05:10 PM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsYeah, if female attraction standards are such that whatever the culture, so long as women don't have to trade sex for anything else, less than 20% of men will be considered sufficiently attractive that sex with them is not repulsive, then we gotta deal with that. I'm an old guy with no dog in this fight. I just wanna get as close to the truth as I can because I'm curious. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 12:09 PM |
| 0 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadGuess Molly might have to wait then. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 11:41 AM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsMaybe not the best wording. But I meant standards that are higher or different than what biology itself dictates. Of course, we could then discuss which of those standards serve women's interests and which don't. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 11:39 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadOnce you don't want anything, you will have everything you want! | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 10:53 AM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsSetting aside specifics as to what may or may not have happened to attraction standards, it does baffle me how anyone can think they are entirely (or almost entirely) genetic. This is true for males and females, though the literature suggests female sexuality is even more influenced by environment and culture than male sexuality, which is less complex and more robust. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 10:36 AM |
| 0 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadAcquire lots of Molly and go clubbing. Can take classes if you want or need later. But first learn how to become one with the beat. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 10:33 AM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsI cannot fully agree with that characterization of history, but I do agree that one way or another women have become or had to become more traditionally masculine. And nobody wants to become more traditionally feminine. So this does throw another layer of complexity in to determining how sexually selective women are innately. But I personally do think that the traditional feminine needs more protecting and honoring. Deep down, women do want this. They want to be more like their nature, but also … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 06:43 AM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsYes, one issues is that women seem a lot better at being co-husbands than even motivated and well meaning men are at being co-wives. There is a distinct possibility that women are outperforming men now because they have innate advantages in the modern environment. So if you layer that a woman is somehow innately superior in performance to her mate value rank equivalent on top of her being innately more sexually selective, the ultimate perceived selectivity gets even higher. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 06:27 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsThere's no perfect science here. Only best guesses and the like. But I do not think female sexuality has been immune to the digital revolution any more than male. So yeah, I do think that being exposed to countless images of 'perfect' people has likely increased what it takes to be considered attractive by a woman. Online dating has had an impact. Social media and a culture that accords status to looks in a way it didn't before. Porn has distorted male sexuality, too. Of course it has. Sure, wit… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 06:23 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsYou need numbers to put the big picture into any kind of context. Even if you use them roughly. I'm not saying people do or should use them to guide individual dating decisions. So yeah, in the big picture, a lot of guys have a prior belief that women IN GENERAL and ON AVERAGE should be attracted to a guy who ranks the same among men that she ranks among women, in attractiveness. There are all sorts of possible issues with this belief, including maybe 'just world' fallacy, I am not distancing my… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 03:19 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsI think the obesity epidemic complicates things. A lot of people assume that just because the genders are equally obese that this somehow cancels out. But two fat people may just not want to pair up and may find the idea of sex with one another gross, even if they know each is equally (un)attractive. But there may be some gender variance here as the male libido may still make him want to do it, but she just can't. But if both lost weight, she could. It is also possible that soft fatness dispropo… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 03:10 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsFair enough. Kinda mousetopia stuff. But there might be some shortcuts if attraction standards are fairly plastic and your first priority is a high pairing rate. You might be able to more focus on that than just general well being. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 02:34 AM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsYeah, well in this formation of the argument, I guess the baseline would be the ERA (Environment of Evolutionary Adaptedness) which is mostly the stone age. Most of our evolved instincts are adapted primarily to that time. But of course, using that as 'normal' is not without problems, either. Of course, if you take this common argument more literally, then the environment doesnt matter much here. The baseline is just what is biological. It has always been the same. In this argument, the actual s… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 02:32 AM |
| 3 | Female Attraction StandardsWell, to be clear, what we are positing is something like a 50th rank woman has similar raw attractiveness to men that a 70th rank man does, or something like that. Now, the idea that women are objectively more attractive is another point. No consensus on that in the literature, but it is possible. Women do have objectively more reproductive value, as well, as wombs are scarce but sperm is plentiful and cheap. Don't want to argue about the definition of 'eugenic' but the point of sexual selectio… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 02:27 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsWe have enough data that most scientists posit the stone age as the era whose environment is most aligned with our evolved instincts. Most of those ideas seem like ones to improve overall psychic well being rather than aimed specifically at making the genders as widely attractive to one another as possible, or reducing female sexual selectivity so as to facilitate widespread monogamy with a high pairing rate. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 02:18 AM |
| 4 | How do you feel about the fact that women are encouraged to do things in relationships that men aren't?Well, this goes well beyond the scope of the thread. But I don't think that is how humans and healthy societies work. That is too much of the modern West's extreme individualism. Now, the strictness of society's standards, how cruelly they are enforced, how much shame, etc. are all open questions. But I don't think it is a matter of 'you do you and I will do me'. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 02:13 AM |
| 6 | How do you feel about the fact that women are encouraged to do things in relationships that men aren't?Yeah, so I think we have interestingly discovered that in some circles, people have managed to flip the double standard. But I agree that male promiscuity is generally treated better than female. There is some biological basis for this, but the general attitudes go way beyond that. I don't think either gender benefits from spinning plates generally. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 02:08 AM |
| 0 | Female Attraction StandardsThis would never be perfect, but it's not impossible to solve. For one, we could posit the Environment of Evolutionary Adaptedness (primarily the stone age) as the norm and work from there. Or we could take a more goal-oriented and less normative approach. We still ideally want to pair up as many adults in good relationships as possible, and exclude as few as possible. Thus, any flexible influence that moves us in the other direction is the influence we want to undo. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 02:02 AM |
| 6 | Female Attraction StandardsGotcha. So what is 'natural' is for women to mate pretty far up in relative mate value rank, but that is actually their objective desirability equal. That means a lot more men are naturally excluded, and to make the math work, some women share some men in some way. Now, setting aside whether this is truly about objective attractiveness, or more about attractiveness to the other gender, this is pretty much what it means for women to be more sexually selective. And this is how sexual selection exe… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 01:59 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsHmm I have seen that channel before. It is funny. It's social science, so I take everything with a pound or ten of salt. But yeah, women ranking so many men below average makes me question if they understand what 'average' is, or whether this question somehow got conflated with 'is he attractive TO ME' in women's minds. Maybe they somehow translated 'average' to 'at least some small bit of sexual attractiveness TO ME'. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 01:48 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsI Have never heard that women rate men they know the same way men rate women. Interesting. Where did you get that from? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 01:33 AM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsNo. I hear you. I am not Blackpill or even close. What women are attracted to is an ongoing field of study for me, and I have an open mind. But here I'm more thinking about that, whatever those qualities are, what kinds of pairing rates should we expect in the future? How selective are women, whatever it is they are selecting for? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 01:28 AM |
| 4 | Female Attraction StandardsThe former. The latter is an interesting idea. I guess if you do assume culture and environment do significantly impact standards, then you are left with the question of what is the 'baseline' or standard environmental influence you want to posit as 'normal' or neutral with respect to the biology. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 01:21 AM |
| 4 | Female Attraction StandardsI'm not sure what you are getting at, because the math here doesn't work. If what we are saying is true, then there wouldn't really be any issue. The 50th ranked in mate value woman would be attracted to the 50th ranked man--it's just that what man occupied that rank may be different than some men think he is. Or are you saying that women as a whole are more attractive overall, and thus that 50th rank woman is objectively more beautiful, and overall more valuable sexually and sexually attractive… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 01:17 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsBut what do we mean by a minority of men getting pussy? Like regular casual? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 01:06 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsRight. She still has more raw SMV than the HB6 guy likely. But her SMV rank is well below his. Now, how much SMV rank matters depends on one's beliefs with respect to how much people want one monogamous partner, etc. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 01:05 AM |
| -1 | Female Attraction StandardsAlso, given innate differences in nature, including sexual selectivity and hypergamy, and men's more flexible attraction floor, this kind of digital exposure probably has a different impact on each gender. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 01:03 AM |
| -1 | Female Attraction StandardsI'm not asserting anyone has it harder at life now or in the past. What I am saying is that in a sustainable future where gender roles are minimized and things are very egalitarian, you cannot really have one gender need to work a lot harder at life than the other. And yes, it would be difficult to calculate, even with relative genderlessness. Women still get pregnant, etc. That all goes into the equation. All I am saying is that one constraint would be that you do not somehow have intense male … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 12:54 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsWhether women have become objectively more attractive than men overall is by no means an accepted belief in the relevant fields, though it is considered and debated. But if we go back to prehistory, when we did much of our evolving as humans, I'm trying to make the math work. If men and women were equally attractive and selective then, then there would be little sexual selection pressure on attractiveness. Everyone would pair up with their mate value equal. So even then, at some point some large… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 12:51 AM |
| 4 | Female Attraction StandardsSure. Wifed up. LTRed. Being first bitch. Whatever. The point is that you think that women being able to sleep with men above their league, even if they cannot land such men (if they wanted to) or are their first choice does impact women's willingness to settle for men closer to their SMV rank? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 12:45 AM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsSorry. I don't follow the logic here. I'm just saying that we do not know if, on an innate basis, it is normal for women to find men of the same SMV rank attractive. I mean we KNOW it is literally not, because that is what it means for women to have greater sexual selectivity. ANd we know they do. But the question is how high? How much is innate? How much is cultural? So I'm not doubting any women who say they don't find such and such men attractive right now. But that doesn't mean this is all i… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 12:42 AM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsIf you see me suggesting some binary, then I have been unclear in some way. I am the nuance guy. Always about continuums and not binaries. To the extent it tends to annoy lol Nothing is ever perfectly equal. So sure, if things turn around and it is men spending more money, time and effort than women to be sexually attractive to the other gender, that is fine. But only so long as it is not massively more and overall effort in life is relatively equal between the genders. But it cannot become this… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 12:27 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsI agree that this female standards question can be viewed individually, and at a population level. Both are valid. And this thread is open to opinions on any of that. So I was too hasty to say we are just doing one thing. So sure, if you only care about individual level stuff, why would a woman listen to any of this if she is doing OK? If she is not, and maybe cannot land the only men she is attracted to, then the topic might interest her, but in a very different way than if we are looking at so… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 12:14 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsMaybe, but even if good looks are the most important factor, there's a big difference between it say being 51% of that equation and 99%. Charisma. Behavior. Dominance. Competence. Etc. all contribute, and appeal to instincts in women evolved when they did need men and that will still apply to a great degree even if they do not need men. I cannot count the number of female friends who have aborted a bar hookup in mid-flight when the guy did or said something that rubbed them the wrong way, even w… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 12:01 AM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsI agree that you avoid numbers in relationship building. But what we are doing right now is speculating about future population-level trends. In doing such, it is not an oxymoron to use numbers very roughly if you are all aware you are doing so. Like when some people assert that unfettered female sexual selectivity will lead to skyrocketing rates of male sexual exclusion, it is totally fair game (and needed) to ask if they mean something closer to say a 20% incel rate or a 70% incel rate. These … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:58 PM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsBut then, do you think that if we want high hetero pairing rates and low 'incel' rates, men would actually have to work harder at life and mate acquisition/retention than women? Does your belief about Average Joe's potential still hold true if he matches female effort in these areas, but is taught to work 'smarter not harder', i.e. to focus efforts on what women really want most? I'm not sure how sustainable it would be, in a relatively genderless and egalitarian society, to let greater female s… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:51 PM |
| 4 | Female Attraction StandardsWell, in terms of analyzing population-level dynamics, you cannot avoid using numbers. You have to use them carefully, and understand when they are--like now--being used incredibly roughly. But there is no real avoiding them. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:47 PM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsI strive for objectivity and truth. I do not know if I believe this, but this is the strongest form of this argument and should be put properly to be considered. So if men did properly adapt, how selective would you say women would be in the future? Even if men were no less attractive than in the past and were as supportive of egalitarian relationships as possible, should we really expect say a 50th percentile mate value woman to be sufficiently attracted to a 50th percentile male to want to pai… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:45 PM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsBY these women having a better shot, you mean being able to get sex from them, not necessarily be wifed up, right? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:40 PM |
| 3 | Female Attraction StandardsI absolutely agree with you that the way that 'need' can translate into actual sexual desirability is totally underappreciated here. It complicates this idea that in the past women almost always had no desire for their husbands. Those numbers are not really indicative. The 6,000 BC male reproduction bottleneck is not fully understood, but leading theories suggest it has little to do with female sexual selectivity and rather a very unique and brutal period in history. As for the 40% through histo… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:35 PM |
| 3 | Female Attraction StandardsLooks alone do not dictate desirability, even if it were some sort of sci-fi Star Trek environment where there were zero material or safety or childcare needs for anyone. But I take it you mean factoring in whatever creates sufficient desire in conditions trending towards these, maybe 40% of men are desirable enough to motivate a woman to pair, especially as men are taking obvious duty sex and fakery off the table. Men will expect regualr, enthusiastic sex from their partner. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:25 PM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsSo for long term pairings, even when women don't need men and there are less children needed and so on, you still don't think women will turn out to be THAT selective? High pairing rates can be expected, even if there is an expectation that--even if you have to wait for it--there will be regular and enthusiastic sex inside the relationship? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:22 PM |
| 0 | Female Attraction StandardsBut then, assuming we undid any possible artificial inflation of standards and selectivity, if any, how innately selective should we expect modern women to be? This would be in an environment where they have less and less material or safety need for a man. Where we have less kids. etc. Like some people think that maybe a 70th percentile mate rank man might be the natural match for a 50th mate rank woman, and thus we should start to expect incel rates of 20-40% over time because that is just how … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:20 PM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsSo how selective would women be if we somehow undid that? But it would still be an environment where women do not NEED a man the way they once did. Would it be normal for 50th percentile mate rank women to find 50th percentile mate rank men suffciently attractive to want to pair with and have enthusiastic sex? Or is it more like 60th percentile men? or 70th? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:17 PM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsOFC women should have a realistic expectation of what they can land and where they stand. But that is not the same as 'realistic standards'. It could be that if you fully enlighten a low SMV woman, she would just say "OK. I'm not better than any of these guys I can land. I don't deserve more. But I'm just not attracted enough to any of them that sex wouldn't be gross for me. So I'd rather go it alone.' You are operating under the assumption that if you remove undo cultural inflation of standards… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:15 PM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsOthers argue that they in no way changed women's nature. Rather, they simply demanded that women make a much greater erotic sacrifice for the overall health and competitiveness of society. Meanwhile, maybe men made greater sacrifices in other areas. But many would argue none of this means that women 200 years ago were generally attracted to the husbands they basically had to marry. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:00 PM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsThese are the questions to ask. We need to use numbers, very roughly, to guide and ground the discussion. But of course the numbers will ultimately be extremely crude. And we will have to make our best guess--we won't be able to prove anything like in math. So yeah, it is an imperfect discussion. But what else can you do? It is the real question at hand, even if there is no way to answer it at all perfectly. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:58 PM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsYes, all sane people understand women are more innately sexually selective than men on a biology basis, whatever the culture or environment. But the devil is in the details. HOW selective are women if they do not need men? Should we expect a 50th percentile rank woman in mate value to be attracted to a 50th to 60th rank male, even if her raw SMV is higher and he is naturally more desirous of her? But is she likely to be desirous enough to not only pair with him (which involves many consideration… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:56 PM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsI think we understand that. Rather, the question is one of details. How selective are women innately, even if you get the culture as right as you can? Like is it natural for a 50th percentile mate value rank woman to actually want sex with the roughly equivalent mate value rank man she can land in an enforced monogamy world, even if her raw SMV is of course higher. Or at this middle level of the SMP, are women likely to pair primarily for other reasons, but actual desire for sex will be somewhat… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:53 PM |
| 3 | Feminism encourages women to never take accountability for their poor decisions when it comes to choosing incorrectlySo if we had the culture and environment right, how innately selective do you think women are? I mean that is the underlying question, ultimately. If women don't need a man, is it natural to think that in the right culture a 50th percentile mate value woman would want to pair with a 55th percentile man, and be enthusiastic about having sex with him? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:49 PM |
| 3 | Female Attraction StandardsLeaving aside the issue of conflicts with individual freedom and a liberal democratic society for now, if there were no social media. No dating apps. We didn't plaster digital images of perfect bodies everywhere. Sexuality was more constrained. Etc. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:47 PM |
| 3 | Female Attraction StandardsSo assuming we did the culture and environment right, would it still be sort of unnatural for a 50th percentile mate value woman to really be attracted to a 50th -55th percentile man? She might be willing to pair with him because he is the best she can get, but men in such situations should not expect a constant supply of enthusiastic sex. That is reserved for higher mate value women who can land high mate value men whom they actually find very desirable? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:45 PM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsSure, but then think this through. Does this mean that women and men have basically the same levels of innate selectivity and average men and women feel the same way about such pairings? Or are the women in such relationships choosing them primarily for other reasons, and are significantly less physically attracted to their partner than the other way around. Or than high mate value women are to their high mate value male partners? And if this is true, should men in such pairings thus temper thei… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:43 PM |
| 4 | Female Attraction StandardsSo you are assuming relatively symmetrical biologies when it comes to this. Perhaps women 'ended up' with men of roughly equal mate value rank because of enforced monogamy and the more attractive men being taken by more attractive women. And women paired up rather than remained single for reasons other than actual attraction. Thus, men in such pairing should have realistic expectations about the sex lives possible in such relationships. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:40 PM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsYes, in the sense that the absolute threshold where sex is a negative is much lower and more flexible for men. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:34 PM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsBut these arguments are not only made at the individual level, but also at the population level. For example, if social media is inflating women's standards, maybe we could do something about that. Or porn, for men. ANd so on. It isn't just arguing that an individual man or woman should be able to slough off all cultural and environmental influences simply by thinking and realizing that he or she cannot land what they can get. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:33 PM |
| 0 | Female Attraction StandardsMany argue that female selectivity is high on an innate level. The widespread, enforced monogamy regime didn't make average men more attractive to average women. It was male sexual socialism at women's expense. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:30 PM |
| 0 | Female Attraction StandardsI disagree. Most who think women have unreasonable standards have the prior assumption that women should be attracted to men of roughly similar mate value rank, but no longer are, on average. So they agree with you about women's innate levels of selectivity, but disagree with you about what is happening on the ground. And thus feel female selectivity has been inflated past what biology demands it be. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:28 PM |
| 4 | Female Attraction StandardsBut it strikes me that, again, to prove my point, you are working off the unstated assumption (like many men do) that it is actually natural for women to find men of roughly the same SMV rank attractive, i.e. a woman who ranks at the 50th percentile among women in mate value should find a man who ranks 50th to 60th sufficiently attractive to desire sex with him. If not, something is wrong with the culture or environment. But others believe that women are and always have been innately way more se… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:25 PM |
| 0 | Female Attraction StandardsWell, lowering standards doesn't need to mean that someone believes we can do so individually, just by thinking it, as easily as you turn down the volume on your TV set. But if there is a cultural and environmental component to what we find attractive, then in theory that could be manipulated such that people could truly find someone attractive when they did not before. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:21 PM |
| 3 | Female Attraction StandardsThis is a clear example of what I mean. Your unstated assumption is that what people find attractive is primarily set by biology, or perhaps a mix of biology and environmental factors so complex we cannot really manipulate them. So they had might has well be innate. Others think differently, and thus lower your standards can mean finding ways to actually find the people you can land TRULY attractive. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:18 PM |
| 8 | Feminism encourages women to never take accountability for their poor decisions when it comes to choosing incorrectlySo is it your opinion that if few men are attractive to women today, this is primarily just women's innate biology finally free to manifest itself. These standards are not artificially inflated by modern culture and technology--they are just how women have always been. It is some combination of women being naturally quite picky combined with men being naturally less attractive. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 09:28 PM |
| 1 | Would you give an attractive ex-pornstar a shot if she quit porn and was aggressively pursuing you?Well, assume you have to sincerely date her for possible marriage and family, not just to fuck. In theory, I could do it. But it just seems like all those porn vids are gonna come back to make the childhood of any children we might have a nightmare. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 08:21 PM |
| 2 | Do Any of You WANT An Arranged Marriage? Why? Who Should Arrange it?Usually, institutions exist in an interdependent ecosystem. I'm not sure how you can restore arranged marriage without restoring the family, and so on. At any rate, what 'arranged' means is pretty plastic. Nobody here wants to be forced to marry someone with no veto power. But softer versions of arranged marriage, where the principals do have effective veto power and are active participants in the process, are not necessarily bad and could be quite good. Again, depends on the culture and institu… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 07:43 PM |
| 0 | Are more and more women choosing to stay single into their 30s?I dunno. The extent to which men contribute to relationships is an open question here. Too many women go with the anecdotal evidence with excessive certainty. But there is a lot of it. However, the more comprehensive studies seem to indicate that, especially with the current younger generations, married men and women actually do contribute roughly the same hours per week to the relationship. OFC there is the 'mental load' or 'CEO of the Household' point that is really hard to prove or disprove b… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 01:04 PM |
| 2 | A thought experiment for menThese are all legitimate aspects of the possible problem. I don't think any are necessarily unsolvable, though. Not in a 'close enough' functional sense. And everyone has a stake. If the incel rate goes too high, it is bad for men and women alike. Women also want partners, and I have known more than a few women who really thought highly of a guy, wanted to be with him, and just couldn't find him sexually desirable enough. If they could, their life would have been better. The obesity epidemic is … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:54 AM |
| 1 | This sub is basically a place for men to come and vent and argue about their frustrations about dating. Where are all of the women with bad takes?haha fair enough. OFC once in a relationship, you would have a responsibility to work with a partner to make sure everyone's needs are taken care of and everyone understands one another. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:02 AM |
| 6 | Are more and more women choosing to stay single into their 30s?Obviously, less survival need for marriage combined with a culture that no longer pushes marriage nearly as hard is likely to result in lower marriage rates for both genders. As to the phenomenon described by the OP of not enough attractive men to go around, this--including the all-important details--are the great open question of gender dynamics. It is a known biological fact that left to their own preferences women (like the females of most species) will be more sexually selective. They have h… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 09:56 AM |
| 1 | A thought experiment for menI filter all the idiots pretty relentlessly here. So let's just ignore them. But the best form of the argument isn't asking women to ignore attraction; nor is it necessarily saying their standards aren't valid. It is saying that we have a common 'problem'. Society works best when people pair widely for family creation. In fact, most people's lives are infinitely better--man or woman--IF they can successfully pair with a partner they find sufficiently attractive. So, if (and it's a big if) women'… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 09:54 AM |
| 1 | This sub is basically a place for men to come and vent and argue about their frustrations about dating. Where are all of the women with bad takes?Strictly and literally speaking, there basically is no unconditional love. And hookups can mean many things. And yes, due to greater female sexual selectivity and innate reproductive value, combined with greater male variability, there has always been a much larger group of bottom tier men who are unfuckable/unmarrigiable than of women. This is known. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 07:02 AM |
| 2 | This sub is basically a place for men to come and vent and argue about their frustrations about dating. Where are all of the women with bad takes?Well it can mean that. It can also mean you were very desirable. The real issue is that men want some source code they can use to perfectly predict women. No such thing. People are too complex. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 07:01 AM |
| 2 | A thought experiment for menI don't know if my stance on this ever changed. I think this is the big open question in gender dynamics: How innately sexually selective are women as their material need for men trends towards zero? How much actual change in selectivity have we seen? If there has been a significant rise, how much is culturally and environmentally induced? Can any artificial inflation be undone, particularly without undoing key features of liberal democracy? I don't think we know any of it. It is funny, though, … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 03:08 AM |
| 5 | A thought experiment for menSorry. I am slow sometimes. But I do not follow what your hypothesis is here. Like big picture. Do you think 50th percentile men and women are attracted to one another? What do you mean 'average guys are ugly'. Like they always have been? Is there something going on right now making them ugly? Is there any difference between how a 50th percentile woman is likely to feel about a 50th percentile guy and vice versa? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 11:03 PM |
| 2 | A thought experiment for menThe problem is that 'unattractive' and 'never truly attracted to them' are somewhat underdefined. If we are using the female approach, these terms tend to mean that you do not want sex with them for its own value. If you could have everything else from that person, and not breed resentment, you'd skip sex with them over having it. This bar is set pretty fucking low for men. It is there, but it is low. That said, there is also a competitive aspect. She may be attractive enough that you would choo… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 10:15 PM |
| 15 | A thought experiment for menThere is profound disagreement about 'the facts on the ground' before we even get to arguments over hypotheses to explain said facts. But in general, what most men want here, is NOT for women to date men they find unattractive. No guy wants to be that guy. Rather, men want a society where women are truly attracted to their rough SMV rank equivalent. Some allowance has to be made for greater female reproductive costs and greater male variability (meaning there really will be a lot more truly unfu… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 10:09 PM |
| 20 | A thought experiment for menMale and female sexual attraction floors are quite different. But yes, assuming we just accept the OP's statement that you feel NO sexual desire for them, then no, you don't date any of them. OFC the whole point in what men are saying about female sexual standards is that they are artificially inflated. They aren't asking women to date men they find unattractive. They are saying that if we somehow straighten things out, then women will truly find a lot more guys attractive. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 10:03 PM |
| 2 | Redpill is very difficult for vast majority of women, it's heartless and cruelAt this point, Youtube provides solid direct access to the kinds of scholars who do Evo Psych, sexuality studies, and the like. They are by no means perfect, but you can skip the TRP middle man, with all the toxicity bundled there. You can understand the basic instincts at play, which is a solid start. But we are the only sentient creatures. Instincts only go so far. It is very hard to isolate nature from nurture. So if you understand the nature, it's on you to add in what nurture might do, and … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 08:49 PM |
| 3 | "Every woman is unique in their taste in men" no they aren'tI think that the underlying sentiment behind this kind of bullshit is that women don't really want men trying to statistically examine, categorize and eventually game what women find attractive on an aggregate level. I think many women feel that supposedly benign 'pure knowledge seeking' is usually in the service of some male agenda to control or constrain female sexuality and mate choice for male advantage. So when I hear things like 'everyone is different' or 'we all have our types', what I re… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 12:36 PM |
| 2 | Is it over for inexperienced men who didn't go to college?That is true. It does become a negative feedback loop, and at some point the lack of opportunity to practice and improve is also holding you back in addition to the underlying reason you didn't get such opportunities. But I do think there is too much focus on the latter point. If you were weird and ugly in HS and college, and never touched a woman. But then you get a great job and hit the gym, get some style, etc. you will probably do alright despite the lack of experience. Yes, you may have to … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 12:12 PM |
| 4 | Can we talk about the phenomenon of childless stepdads who are actually good?If the culture and environment is somehow jacking up women's standards past what they need to be on a biological basis, then you have to somehow undo the unneeded inflation first. You cannot just say that women whose standards have been inflated should mate with men they find unattractive. That would be traumatic. First, you have to find a way for those men to be sufficiently attractive to the women. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 09:19 AM |
| 38 | Is it over for inexperienced men who didn't go to college?You have it backwards. It is not so much that the lack of experience hurts you. It is that a lack of experience is revealing something innately unattractive about you. So yeah, if you didn't go to college and are inexperienced at 22, maybe this is not necessarily as damning as there is a higher chance you somehow didn't have opportunities to meet women rather than you being innately unattractive. But at any rate, these are just rough heuristics. At the end of the day, you know if you are unattra… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 01:11 AM |
| 3 | Women constantly use how “dangerous” and high risk dating is for them as an excuse for their pickiness but then consistently select and return to abusive low lifesMaybe. But this also might be a natural defensive mechanism in reaction to men here constantly accusing women of this and that just because the women wanna fuck who they wanna fuck. Picky or not picky. Like sometimes that abusive guy may actually be the only guy who is sexually attractive enough to a woman to be an option. He is bad, but the least bad of all the actual options. Maybe women are innately super picky in terms of what they find arousing, based on instincts that evolved for another t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 12:29 AM |
| 1 | CMV: The game of waiting for sex hugely contributes to future dead bedroomsIt's also possible that the entire widespread monogamy regime we have lived under always involved a massive suppression of innate female sexuality and sexual selectivity. Thus, it is possible, that without open polygamy, the majority of women won't actually be able to partner and reproduce with a guy she has an overwhelming desire to have sex with. And maybe female collective wisdom understands this, so the advice to wait is to make sure that she is going to get the investment she wants for the … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 12:23 AM |
| 1 | If men’s carnal first choice is younger woman, would you expect older men to be women’s?Look, if you took all constraints off, then yeah, actual male pedophilia aimed at pre-pubescent girls is probably a lot more prevalent than it is reported to be now. And yes, even non-pedophiles have some sexual attraction to pre-pubescent girls even if it is kinda vague and isn't necessarily something such men men would even try to consummate if they could. But pre-pubescent girls are by no means the females most males find optimally attractive. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/03/24 11:23 PM |
| 1 | If men’s carnal first choice is younger woman, would you expect older men to be women’s?lol no But if you evened the playing field and removed all taboos, then purely physically, the ideal female age range would be lower than people are comfortable with, yes. But not 11. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/03/24 11:02 PM |
| 4 | Why do many women seem to take pleasure in rejecting certain men?It's a natural feeling of power and superiority that is tempting and somewhat intoxicating to someone in that position--this would include men if the roles were flipped. It is also a signal of their value. When men below a woman's league publicly hit on a woman it calls into question what her level really is. Publicly rejecting the guy in a 'what the fuck were you thinking way' rather than a 'after careful consideration, no' kinda way reaffirms her level with other women, herself, and men. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/03/24 07:28 AM |
| 1 | if women are better than men socially & aesthetically. Why the best version of men is slightly better than women ?Yes, but it is also possible women are actually objectively more attractive in some key ways. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/03/24 07:15 AM |
| 3 | In dating, as a man, it's demanded that you be confident and socially skilled. Meanwhile, women are allowed to be as neurotic and anti-social as they pleaseYes, the male and female burdens of performance differ. And maybe they are not equal, though women also have a greater reproductive cost. Still, don't forget that women also have social expectations as a gender that may not be super in sync with the actual personality of a given individual woman. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/03/24 07:07 AM |
| 3 | if women are better than men socially & aesthetically. Why the best version of men is slightly better than women ?SAT doesn't really work well because lots of males and females can cap out the writing section. It isn't that hard. Yes, women score better than men overall. But if there were no cap, what would be the gender breakdown on the top 0.01% of scorers on the writing section? I dunno. And yes, ofc male variability implies longer left and right tails to the distribution. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 11:09 PM |
| 7 | if women are better than men socially & aesthetically. Why the best version of men is slightly better than women ?I think it would depend on the test and parameters. But the male variability hypothesis is by no means accepted by all, and even those who accept it in general may differ on the specifics. Judging anecdotally by results in life is complicated by the fact that it is not just about actual ability. More men than women are likely to maximize potential at the extreme end by being willing to live unhealthy, unbalanced lives that are all about manifesting a given talent to its fullest. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 10:58 PM |
| 6 | Men are constantly told they are delusional and shoot for women out of their league, but even the casual observer can see that the exact opposite is true ***EDITED PER MOD REQUEST***Yes, but that assumes her situation is the same as men's. Men have a lower and more flexible attraction floor. The man may be happier paired up if he lowers his standards. The woman may be sexually traumatized by having to sleep with a male body that her own body recoils at, even if she knows he is 'on her level'. She may be happier alone. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 10:33 PM |
| 4 | if women are better than men socially & aesthetically. Why the best version of men is slightly better than women ?Sure. And it's a theory. But we don't really know the full extent of male variability and where it applies. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 10:30 PM |
| 1 | Men are constantly told they are delusional and shoot for women out of their league, but even the casual observer can see that the exact opposite is true ***EDITED PER MOD REQUEST***Like women, there are biological constraints on what men can be. But yes, it is possible that instead of female standards going up, male attractiveness is somehow going down. Or that, as you say, if this is going to be a world about mating for sexual desirability, men need to start investing in their own the way women always did in theirs. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 10:30 PM |
| 31 | if women are better than men socially & aesthetically. Why the best version of men is slightly better than women ?The male curves for various qualities are flatter, with longer left and right tails. This is male variability theory. The best and worst of anything are usually mostly men. But things are different at the median. Women do have superior social skills at the median. Whether women are objectively more attractive at the median is debated. Possible. Hard to say. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 09:27 PM |
| 3 | Men are constantly told they are delusional and shoot for women out of their league, but even the casual observer can see that the exact opposite is true ***EDITED PER MOD REQUEST***I was just advancing a possible objection to the OP's assumptions. But I don't necessarily believe it. We do need to have serious conversations about the big picture of our family creation and raising ideal. Women as citizens are at least morally required to think about such things and join in that conversation. Sex and marriage and the like are not entirely individual decisions--society has a stake, too. But as to the answers, I don't know. Part of what we are finding out is just how innately s… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 09:24 PM |
| 14 | Men are constantly told they are delusional and shoot for women out of their league, but even the casual observer can see that the exact opposite is true ***EDITED PER MOD REQUEST***Have you considered what a woman should do if the men she can get a relationship from are simply unattractive to her? Yes, many women in such a situation are a bit delusional about their chances of truly landing the guys they are attracted to. But some are not. And there is no guarantee that if the women who are deluded are disabused of their delusions they will just pair up with the guys they can land for a relationship. These women, if they get a reality check, may just opt out then. Or they m… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 09:12 PM |
| 1 | What advice would you give to average and below average men who want hookup and not be in a monogamous relationship?Other than become above average in key qualities, then these men probably have to aim at women quite far below them in SMV rank and/or appearance. If you want to know how a an average guy can get casual like Chad, and with the same caliber of women that average guy could relationship up, the answer is that he usually cannot. TV and movies have warped young men's minds as to what is normal and achievable. Most women don't do casual regularly, even today. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 09:06 PM |
| -1 | Men shouldn't dismiss so quickly the idea that unequal distribution of housework/childcare contributes to divorcesI think a key reality check is whether, if Mom has to go on a business trip or go to hospital for a bit or whatever, she needs to make some huge letter or not explaining to Dad what to do, who to call, who has what appointment, where, when, etc.? How many men who work roughly the same hours as t heir wives at work, and who even put in as many hours at home, are TRUE Co-CEOs of the family? Do they know the vaccination schedule? Do they Tammy's new 'Best Friend' that is teaching her bad habits and… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 09:02 PM |
| 1 | Would you date a woman that slept with your friend before you were exclusive?Yes, | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 05:25 PM |
| 4 | Are women generally speaking more loyal to their partner?Men still cheat more, and if you equalize opportunity, then a lot more IMO. But there are other aspects to loyalty. Men are maybe more ride of die there, but hard to say. Anything that fucks up your sexual attractiveness to the other gender tends to lead to a loss of love and loyalty, unless a woman is gonna go post-sexual. But then you have other issues. So yeah, when men don't perform or fail to earn, then women lose attraction. Men will be more loyal to a woman is this way. But if a woman sto… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 05:20 PM |
| 1 | Signs you ARE the woman's first choiceBasically, hypergamy is satisfied. For now. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 05:14 PM |
| 2 | Signs you ARE the woman's first choiceIt's complicated. Women dream. You are almost never gonna be her first choice in that kind of way. But as they mature, many can see how many of their dream guys were in fact bad dreams and not good ones. So you can be her best option, and one she is thankful for and admires. That's enough. No need to go into overly theoretical territory as to whether you were her 'first choice'. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 05:13 PM |
| 19 | Would autistic guys have more luck if they were more social?Maybe. Autism is sort of a made up working definition for a whole host of personality and cognitive profiles. Some of these do better with women than others. Not sure extroversion is the most important of these traits, though it does matter. But if you are obviously autistic and can't mask, then being social alone might make it worse not better. Hard to say. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 04:55 PM |
| 2 | Do women (really) choose the wrong men?I cannot think of any time or place that sexual attraction was truly considered superfluous. Sure, sometimes that was an ideal. But in reality... | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/03/24 01:19 PM |
| 5 | There is a logical pattern in the manosphere that cannot be denied but also doesn't guarantee successBefore you study any TRP or whatever, you need to ground yourself with one absolute touchstone. Women are NOT NPCs in life. They are full player characters, just like you. They have their own desires and evolved instincts. Some are the same and some are different than men's. Women are at least as much prisoners of the times and the culture as men. You have to really look at things from their pov sometimes or everything else gets distorted. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/03/24 07:00 AM |
| 7 | Do women (really) choose the wrong men?Sure, though men are going to reject a cute girl if they are pretty sure there is a supermodel waiting for them in the next room. But 'hypergamy' is absolutely pointing at a real thing, though it is hard to perfectly articulate what the core evolved instincts are behind it. So yes, the genders do behave differently in these areas if you get into the details. But that is a long conversation if one wants to be nuanced and get it as right as one can. But as a guy who likes and loves women in genera… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/03/24 01:56 AM |
| 0 | How is the second branch secured during a monkey branching?These are some fair points, but there are also gendered patterns to this worth discussing. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/03/24 01:27 AM |
| 11 | Do women (really) choose the wrong men?The evolutionary lens is important, but has to be used carefully. We are in a very novel environment compared to what our instincts are evolved for. Do either men or women choose bad partners? All the time. But at the same time, choices you are not attracted to sexually at all are off the table. They aren't options. Culture and environment absolutely play a huge role, not only in what we find sexually attractive, but also as to the extent to which we prioritize maximum sexual attractiveness over… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/03/24 01:02 AM |
| 1 | Q4M: When you ask women to rate someone, are you asking if she's attracted to them? Or are you asking what she thinks they're objective looks are on a 1-10 scale?yep. you women are devilishly complex lol also, depending on the woman, the more reactive nature of women's sexuality throws a wrench into things because you are asking women whose sexuality is in 'sleep mode' what they like when it is activated. For many, there is a disconnect of sorts and sexuality-off girl does not fully understand what sexuality-on girl likes. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/02/24 06:29 PM |
| 1 | Q4M: When you ask women to rate someone, are you asking if she's attracted to them? Or are you asking what she thinks they're objective looks are on a 1-10 scale?I dunno. I find it hard to generalize because even as a youth I have asked the question and meant different things in different contexts. I think if we ask a purely looks question we generally are looking for a fairly objective answer, since that is at least a bit more objective than overall attractiveness. And we'd expect a woman who finds a given guy hot but is aware that her opinion is not that conventional for women to note that. If we ask something like 'do you think mark is hot or sexy or … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/02/24 04:49 PM |
| 1 | Q4M: When you ask women to rate someone, are you asking if she's attracted to them? Or are you asking what she thinks they're objective looks are on a 1-10 scale?OFC in a social science situation you want women to lean into their idiosyncratic preferences and 'types', because if it turns out everyone shares that type, then it never was a 'type' lol But in a casual situation it is, like all human things, complex. The question is ambiguous: do you think he is cute could mean 'cute in general' or 'cute to you'. I think most women will kinda conflate both in a casual situation and fudge it. But again, depends on the woman. Women I have known who had strong t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/02/24 04:37 PM |
| 1 | Q4M: When you ask women to rate someone, are you asking if she's attracted to them? Or are you asking what she thinks they're objective looks are on a 1-10 scale?Gender-based tendencies don't change the fact that at the individual level there is enormous variation. I think you have good points on the question at hand, though it is also pretty contextual and depends on exactly what is being asked in what situation. As is my annoying habit, I was sort of expanding the discussion into a related area I found more interesting. My general gripe about female posters here is a reluctance to simply analyze something in a purely descriptive manner. There is often … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/02/24 04:05 PM |
| 1 | Q4M: When you ask women to rate someone, are you asking if she's attracted to them? Or are you asking what she thinks they're objective looks are on a 1-10 scale?I think women's brains in general do not tend towards systematizing. So yeah, almost no matter how you word it, if you ask a woman if someone is attractive, she will tend to immediately go to whether he is attractive to HER. If you push, maybe she will talk about types and say 'Not to me, but some of my friends would be into him.' Things like population level SMV scores, 'objective' ratings of looks and such are not usually the kinds of ways most women look at life. Furthermore, even among women… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/02/24 03:16 PM |
| 2 | How much are men told to bottle up their emotions relative to girls?Being emotional means many things. Some would argue that men, driven by testosterone-fueled emotions, are more emotional. More aggressive. More impulsive. More angry. More risk taking. But yes, in terms of the kinds of emotions that fall under the Big 5 Personality category of neuroticism, women are more prone to them. It is hypothesized to be an advantage as a mother of young infants. Sexual polarity requires men lean the other way so they have something to bring to a relationship to complement… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/02/24 03:06 PM |
| 0 | Does a mans social status attract women?OFC status of all kinds is attractive to women. This is evo psych 101. Common sense 101. No need for evo psych to know it. Now, there are nuanced differences in the kind of attraction status vs. looks vs. charisma vs. dominance can create. Sure. But yes, status is very attractive. OTOH, the bigger the difference between a guy's status and other attractive qualities, the more likely he is to get gold diggers and the like if he goes for women who would have been out of his league without the statu… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/02/24 02:50 AM |
| 6 | Apparently women in your "friends circle" really dislike you hitting on them'Close Enough' is not just a matter of frequency. If you are wrong, it isn't always dead wrong. And for a variety of reasons, a friendship is actually much more salvageable if the guy who makes a move but gets shot down was actually pretty close to having a shot. Like almost in her league, or in it, but just not her type, or it was just bad timing and in another timeline she might have dated him. It's hard to really articulate exactly why this is. Part of it is that a large SMV difference in a c… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/02/24 02:46 AM |
| 12 | Apparently women in your "friends circle" really dislike you hitting on themWhy are the men being so stupid here? OF COURSE it would be different if he were in her league, or if she somehow found him sexually attractive. That is the fucking point. He should fucking know where he stands. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/02/24 12:44 AM |
| 18 | Apparently women in your "friends circle" really dislike you hitting on themBut don't you see, THAT is the whole point. People should generally know when they have a chance. Not perfectly, but close enough. How can you be friends with a girl for a long time and NOT know where you stand sexually? Or at least have a pretty good estimation. Don't blow up friendships for no reason when there is no chance of romance. It's just that simple. If your feelings have become too strong, then yeah, spend more time apart or even end things. But don't be the guy in the video. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/02/24 12:43 AM |
| 2 | Resources and casual sexAlso, attraction is by no means purely physical, even if we are talking about a zipless fuck where you will never see the person again. This is especially true for women. I cannot count the number of times women I have known have told me stories that amount to 'I was drunk and bored/horny. Met this hot guy at a bar. Was going to take him home and sleep with him. BUT then he had to open his mouth...' As to why younger women sleep with older guys 'for free', well, again that is complicated. Some o… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/02/24 05:40 AM |
| 3 | Prehistoric patriarchy vs Prehistoric matriarchyThere was no doubt Goddess worship. But that is a far cry from a kind of matriarchy that is anything like a mirror image of patriarchy. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/02/24 05:34 AM |
| 6 | Prehistoric patriarchy vs Prehistoric matriarchyIt's almost a cliche in anthropology to project one's politics onto prehistory. Still, Darwin is closer to being right here. There is little convincing evidence of any matriarchies, much less a prehistory that was primarily matriarchal. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/02/24 04:16 AM |
| 1 | Resources and casual sexYour examples are extreme. Money can't move the needle nearly far enough in those circumstances. But in general, female attraction is complex and it is hard to draw bright lines like money only being attractive if a woman will have access to it. When a woman decides to sleep with a man, there are obviously both conscious and unconscious calculations at play. On an unconscious level, money is a flawed but functional heuristic for determining the kind of worldly dominance, status and competence th… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/02/24 04:02 AM |
| 2 | Is it reasonable to expect monogamyEnvironment also matters. In some circumstances, it is pretty reasonable to hope that you really do monopolize a great deal of your partner's sexuality. But in a modern context, where genders mix, masturbation is almost encouraged, and we are titillated 24/7, there is really no chance of that. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/02/24 01:28 AM |
| 1 | Is the Red Pill something you would recommend to someone who wants to improve their dating experience?The key thing to understand is when the big picture should inform your individual dating life, and when it is better to focus on how variable people are at the individual level and just deal with them more as unique individuals than 'men' or 'women'. A lot of people get fucked up there. I don't go around thinking about my SMV ranking and hers when dating. Of course, 'leagues' were always a rougher and more intuitive way to look at these things that is useful at the individual level. But again, h… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 10:11 PM |
| 1 | Is the Red Pill something you would recommend to someone who wants to improve their dating experience?I get you. And yeah, stats can fuck certain people up. They can be essential, if used well, to other people in other situations. Very circumstantial. To be honest, there isn't much content that is considered really hardcore TRP that I like. I have to filter so much. Nowadays, I can go directly to the evo psych sources and skip all the bad stuff. But some people's brains don't work that way. And depending on what someone's issue with dating is, they may need some TRP tonic--toxins and all. If you… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 09:49 PM |
| 1 | Is the Red Pill something you would recommend to someone who wants to improve their dating experience?There is no 'universal' Red Pill anymore. The manosphere has expanded and fractured. The rise of podcasts has made the evo psych sources that TRP was originally based on more directly accessible. So it is meaningless to talk about whether TRP is good or bad or anything. You have to be more specific. Depending on what my friend's issues were, I definitely could recommend some content that the OP might consider TRP or TRP-adjacent that would help him out. But I'd be pretty selective. And yeah, if … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 09:30 PM |
| 1 | Does it make sense to expect lust if you can’t authentically inspire lust? Does it make sense to expect your partner to fake lust for you if haven’t made explicit what they get in return?I think it is clear that maximizing eugenics is not the best path. But eugenics are not really irrelevant, either. A lot of current cultures have some strong dysgenic patterns, and these are a problem. Unclear how best to address them, though. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 04:54 PM |
| 2 | Does it make sense to expect lust if you can’t authentically inspire lust? Does it make sense to expect your partner to fake lust for you if haven’t made explicit what they get in return?Are you saying other female mammals are not picky maters? Or that human females are not? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 04:28 PM |
| 1 | Do most women underestimate their sexual bargaining power in modern times?There's also the fact that at the upper levels of the SMP, things invert somewhat. Top men have more leverage than even top women. And to SOME extent, women are looking up and adapting their behavior to what works there, not with Johnny average. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 04:18 PM |
| 1 | Does it make sense to expect lust if you can’t authentically inspire lust? Does it make sense to expect your partner to fake lust for you if haven’t made explicit what they get in return?That isn't true. Other female mammals pick which males to present to, and fight or run from males they don't want to breed. Are you saying this or someone else is? Don't follow the logic here either way. And sure, I don't really try to track the true attitudes of the posters I find uninteresting here. I'm here mostly to discuss ideas, so I just 'next' 90% of posters who don't have anything interesting (for me) to say. I'm not sure I agree with any broad characterizations of what the Red Pill is … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 04:10 PM |
| 1 | If we can agree hypergamy is realThat's the basics, yes. Though there are such significant differences between humans and even our closest primate cousins that inferring human nature from that of other animals is dangerous. And the real issue is not hypergamy itself, but the extent of it. We honestly do not know how innately hypergamous women will turn out to be, even if free to indulge in it as much as they want. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 04:04 PM |
| 2 | Does it make sense to expect lust if you can’t authentically inspire lust? Does it make sense to expect your partner to fake lust for you if haven’t made explicit what they get in return?Not necessarily sadism, since I think a lot of these guys are just kinda clueless. But as to your point, this is why I do not advocate any kind of policy measures now. We have no idea what is going on exactly, or why. But it is definitely possible for an environment or culture to artificially inflate male or female attraction standards. And if that is what is happening, that inflation could be undone. It could also be that men are somehow just objectively less attractive than they need to be, an… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 03:58 PM |
| 3 | Does it make sense to expect lust if you can’t authentically inspire lust? Does it make sense to expect your partner to fake lust for you if haven’t made explicit what they get in return?I argue the opposite. Constraining female sexual selectivity through enforced monogamy seemed to outcompete more eugenic civilizations at the macro level. Now, maybe we will come up with some other combination that outcompetes enforced monogamy, and is more eugenic. Hard to say. But there is no straight line correlation between a more eugenic society and a more competitive one. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 03:49 PM |
| 3 | Does it make sense to expect lust if you can’t authentically inspire lust? Does it make sense to expect your partner to fake lust for you if haven’t made explicit what they get in return?There are lots of potential problems with this seemingly simple logic. Humans are an intelligent species whose technology has created a massively novel evolutionary environment. If female selectivity is too high, for example, your polity or culture might not be able to outcompete others long enough to see positive results from greater eugenics. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 02:19 PM |
| 1 | If we can agree hypergamy is realI think you are missing the point of my argument. I am saying that male and female mate choice dynamics are qualitatively different. It isn't just about them having different criteria and women turning up the selectivity meter a bit. Women's desire to personally 'look up' to her mate, as well as female concern about male ranking, make female mate choice fundamentally different than male. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 02:17 PM |
| 1 | If we can agree hypergamy is realIt's not about which traits a gender desires in a potential mate. It is about how selective they are and how they evaluate potential mates. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 12:01 PM |
| 1 | Does it make sense to expect lust if you can’t authentically inspire lust? Does it make sense to expect your partner to fake lust for you if haven’t made explicit what they get in return?OFC it matters is you can inspire lust. But that is the ultimate question PPD tends to dance around: How innately sexually selective are women as their material need for a man trends towards zero? How much is culture and environment, and how much is biology, when it comes to a woman's standards with respect to what she finds truly lust-inspiring, and to what extent? We really do not know. The more moderate men still do tend to have some sexual expectations--many women still call even these somew… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 10:55 AM |
| 2 | If we can agree hypergamy is realThere's no law that says the genders are symmetrical here. In fact, the general biological law that the gender which invests more in reproduction is more selective about mate choice speaks to the fact that there are fundamental gender asymmetries here. Whatever Hypergamy is exactly, it is certainly about a comparison between a female and potential mates with respect to certain criteria having to do with dominance and a kind of worldly competence. While both genders use their own standing to part… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 10:41 AM |
| 1 | If we can agree hypergamy is realThe issue is this foolish idea some people have that you can evaluate the entire holistic worth of a person. Or that people even try to do that. Even when people talk about dating 'down' they tend to have some specific criteria with respect to what 'down' means--they don't usually mean they are dating a person of inferior total human value. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 06:44 AM |
| 1 | If we can agree hypergamy is realRight. But it is fair game to question whether there is more to hypergamy than just the long noted practice of women marrying up in status. And it should be noted that hypergamy, however defined, can calibrate to smaller distinctions if needed. Assortative mating and hypergamy are by no means mutually exclusive. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 06:42 AM |
| 1 | If we can agree hypergamy is realThe issue is you are arguing with fools who believe hypergamy means women date up in terms of some overall, holistic evaluation of a person. But who could do such math? It's hard to perfectly define or articulate what hypergamy is. But there is more to it than both genders symmetrically wanting the best deal they can get, but simply having different criteria. Male and Female mate choice dynamics are not essentially the same, just with different desired criteria. The core dynamics are different I… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 06:40 AM |
| 3 | Is it reasonable to expect monogamyYou've conflated several things, chiefly among them the reasonableness of hoping for monogamy and your own severe doubts about how attracted your GF is to you, beyond even monogamous considerations. Also, even monogamy has levels to it. It is one thing to hope for and expect a partner to only have sex with you. It is another to want them to literally have zero sexual attraction to anyone else. The latter is some pretty deep monogamy and fairly unrealistic in today's environment. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 06:13 AM |
| 10 | Does it make sense to expect lust if you can’t authentically inspire lust? Does it make sense to expect your partner to fake lust for you if haven’t made explicit what they get in return?Right. The other possibility is that standards for lust are primarily driven by biology and not environment, and what we are seeing now is the true levels of innate female sexual selectivity, finally freed from the need to trade sex for anything else. It's also possible that modern men are just less lust inducing than men before them in some ways. There are many possibilities, many of which could be happening at the same time. We don't even know the facts on the ground. There are some worrisome … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 06:08 AM |
| – | Manosphere contradictionsThe truth is that while I understand the worry a lot of men have that they will be the Beta Bucks option, I do think trying to gauge her true desire by any kind of simple litmus test based on how fast she slept with you vs. others is a bad idea. There are just too many variables at play. Logan Paul may be a good example. It's quite likely she is not less desirous of Logan than other men she has fucked sooner; my guess is that she made Logan wait so that he wouldn't think she was easy. she made h… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 06:05 AM |
| 9 | Does it make sense to expect lust if you can’t authentically inspire lust? Does it make sense to expect your partner to fake lust for you if haven’t made explicit what they get in return?The argument is that women's standards have become artificially inflated beyond what biology dictates they must be; thus, in theory, the inflation could be undone. It would a true lowering of standards and not fakery. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 02:18 AM |
| 2 | Is the state of modern relationships going to just keep getting worse or....has it never been better?Well, I think we'd best agree to disagree here. It's a pretty broad subject that goes well beyond the scope of this thread. But for the record, for all their flaws, the earlier Beats were on to something; I have mostly contempt for where the Hippies went with it, though. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 11:01 PM |
| 8 | If we can agree hypergamy is realHypergamy is clearly pointing at something real, but exactly what the evolved instincts are that support various forms of hypergamy are difficult to say. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 10:16 PM |
| 2 | Manosphere contradictionsI totally get that, and I'd personally avoid using sexual history like this as some rough gauge of 'true desire'. But I also get the underlying fear. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 10:10 PM |
| 2 | Is the state of modern relationships going to just keep getting worse or....has it never been better?I think that during and up to the 60s revolution, a lot of people recognized that Americans were living (somewhat) disciplined but sterile and purposeless lives. Important parts of the soul, so to speak, were not being tended to. But the 60s answer of throwing off that discipline and embracing a free-for-all of individualistic hedonism was not the right response to the problem. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 10:09 PM |
| 1 | Do people not date based on their romantic feelings?It's only meant to be modeled as a marketplace at large scale. And it's an imperfect modeling. You shouldn't be running around looking at your personal dating life primarily through an economic lens. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 06:49 PM |
| 9 | Relationships are not 50/50But you really think that modern men put in more total hours of effort to the marriage than women, as a reliable trend and pattern? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 04:26 PM |
| 32 | Manosphere contradictionsPoint one isn't necessarily a contradiction, and a couple of different arguments have been grouped together. The manosphere point is that you do not want a woman who is basically not desirous of you, but has had her party fun and now you are her best stability option. So generally such men have no problem waiting for sex IF she made every other guy wait for sex just as long, if not longer. What is worrying is when she fucked a lot of guys on date 1, but made you wait for 3 months. I get that the… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 04:22 PM |
| 16 | Relationships are not 50/50I think most modern relationships do aim at a 50/50 (rough and over time) split in overall EFFORT. Naturally, some people actually contribute more as they have more talent or better luck or a higher paying job or whatever. But it is the effort (generally in time) that matters. And yes, even in effort, often one partner puts in more. People are just different and fail to live up to ideals all the time. That said, I see no evidence that it is generally the woman who puts in less effort and time th… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 04:15 PM |
| 11 | Relationships are not 50/50Yeah, but sophisticated people understand that '50/50' is just rough shorthand for this equitable split of EFFORT--not necessarily true contribution as people's talents vary. No one sane suggests keeping constant detailed 'score'. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 04:13 PM |
| 18 | Women preferring to stay single because they don't feel attracted to average men says a lot about their unrealistic expectationsIt's true that a lot of modern women do not accurately understand their chance of landing a man who meets their standards. BUT the OP has an assumption that women buy into the idea that we are entitled to or 'supposed' to be able to pair up with a member of the opposite sex of roughly similar SMV rank. Maybe, men are just less attractive. Maybe modern men are even more so. Maybe women are too naturally selective for this, and thus high pairing rates always involved forceful suppression of female… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 04:10 PM |
| 2 | Do you think women will have to come to terms with dating men who earn less?We will see. I think it is a bigger consideration than you make it out to be, and more gender asymmetrical. Yes, most people do end up marrying within their general class and income level. BUT when men made all the money, enough married downward to keep the pairing rates high. Now that women are making as much as men, it will be difficult to keep the pairing rates as high if a lot of women are not as willing as men were to 'date down' economically. And it is unclear how far women's abandonment o… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 04:03 PM |
| 5 | Do you think women will have to come to terms with dating men who earn less?I think you are right that the manosphere overhypes women's financial hypergamy. However, I think you are going too far in the other direction. Male income is still a very important consideration to most women, though they do vary in the details. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 06:48 AM |
| 1 | Do you think women will have to come to terms with dating men who earn less?There's definitely a complex mix of nature and nurture here. As you say, the desire to partner up and have children is strong. Given the math at play, women have had no choice but to 'marry down' a lot more than in the past. That said, this move has taken longer and gone less far than many social scientists predicted, given how well women are doing economically. Moreover, there are signs that relationship quality suffers significantly when women outearn their husbands. Perhaps this will ameliora… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 06:44 AM |
| 1 | Do you think women will have to come to terms with dating men who earn less?In the EEA (Environment of Evolutionary Adaptedness) there was no 'money'; thus, women's primary mating instincts are not about male wealth and income. Rather, they are an imperfect heuristic in a novel evolutionary environment. As such, there is some room to maneuver here. But men will have to figure out a way to be dominant and admirable to a woman who makes more than him. Can be done, but it is not easy. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 06:36 AM |
| – | The decline of the James Bond franchise shows how traditional masculine values are quickly fading into the background.James Bond is not really a paragon of true male virtue. Rather, he is an example of certain attractive male qualities. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 06:33 AM |
| – | If a man wouldn’t want the women in his life being in porn, then his feelings about porn are pretty anti-porn.There are deeper reasons for the 'ick', and they are not all about status. Women get the 'ick' more readily from promiscuous women than men. If you look at it evolutionarily, it all makes sense. It was just naturally easier to focus more on constraining female sexuality than male if you want to avoid big social problems. Women are the ones who actually get pregnant, after all. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 01:02 AM |
| – | If a man wouldn’t want the women in his life being in porn, then his feelings about porn are pretty anti-porn.It is unfortunate that this process happens alongside the the ageing and desiring babies process. So it is hard to believe she is just maturing vs. her situation and bargaining power changed. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 12:58 AM |
| – | If a man wouldn’t want the women in his life being in porn, then his feelings about porn are pretty anti-porn.This is not wrong. But there are more dimensions than this to men' complex feelings about female sexuality. I think the PPD men overblow it, as part of the gender wars; but there is an inherently asymmetric attitude towards male and female sexual purity that is not just based on status, or it being harder for men to fuck around than women. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 12:53 AM |
| 2 | If personality is so important, why wont women fall for their male friends more?Gotcha. To be fair, there is an underlying and unresolved question of just how sexually selective women will turn out to be as their material need for a man trends towards zero. It honestly could turn out to be disastrously high, but we just can't know right now. Plus, separating nature from nurture here is, as always, very tough. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 05:06 PM |
| 2 | If personality is so important, why wont women fall for their male friends more?Except for a teenaged boy, all of life is 'extreme arousal'. But yeah, women also have those post coital bonding hormones. LBJ said the gender wars was a distraction so we wouldn't focus on growing income inequality? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 05:03 PM |
| 5 | If personality is so important, why wont women fall for their male friends more?Truth, maybe the female approach is actually more normal and natural. The male approach is what happens when one gender is more drugged up on sexual attraction hormones that distort their ability to reason properly lol | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 04:59 PM |
| 19 | If personality is so important, why wont women fall for their male friends more?Women still weight a much wider variety of criteria, including personality, more heavily than men do when it comes to mate selection. Men are still almost all about the looks. HOWEVER, women are pickier overall than men, and have a threshold system: if you do not meet a minimum standard in some key criteria, it is very hard to compensate with outperformance in another area. This makes it seem like whatever thing you are missing is now THE MOST IMPORTANT thing to women ever. And it is, when you l… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 04:51 PM |
| 7 | If personality is so important, why wont women fall for their male friends more?Bingo. 99% of the FriendZone stuff is not a FriendZone--you just are not attractive enough for her. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 04:48 PM |
| 7 | If personality is so important, why wont women fall for their male friends more?True. To be honest, just like exposure to raw male sexuality has traumatized a lot of women, the same is true for many men. Getting exposed to women's greater sexual selectivity is just a hard pill for many men to accept and swallow. And this is true even when not massively exaggerating the extent of this greater selectivity. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 04:47 PM |
| 7 | If personality is so important, why wont women fall for their male friends more?Maybe. Or they at least don't have sexually attractive ones to her. I get where this idea of women having the more 'moral' sexuality comes from and was cultivated, but we should be past that now. Women find hot what they find hot, like men do. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 04:43 PM |
| 3 | Is a One Night Stand the truest form of a woman showing Burning Sexual Desire?And then the gender wars here make productive cross-gender conversation pretty hard. Each side reps their team. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 04:26 PM |
| 2 | There are simple logistical reasons why divorce is worse for men than for women which explain the disparity in divorce initiationIt could also have something to do with the fact that women find it harder to fuck someone they no longer are attracted to, or don't love anymore, or even hate. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 04:00 PM |
| 2 | What makes something “feminine”? What makes something “masculine”?It should basically be about tendencies that are more typically found in men vs. women. But yes, the masculine or feminine 'ideal' aspect complicates things. There are a lot of traits that tend to occur more in men, but that women today are not going to label 'masculine'. A lot of more male typical behaviors lead to more worldly power. Women have decided that they want this power. too. Trusting men to take care of them didn't work out well in their opinion. Thus, it is very hard to say what is m… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 03:40 PM |
| 9 | Is a One Night Stand the truest form of a woman showing Burning Sexual Desire?True. Still, in some ways being fully exposed to the sexuality of the other gender (including the worst deviant aspects of it when being tempted by bad things) has traumatized both sexes. Women see how sick and depraved and relentless male sexuality can be. Men see how mercenary, transactional and judging many (not all) women can be about their men. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 03:34 PM |
| 5 | Is a One Night Stand the truest form of a woman showing Burning Sexual Desire?Ha. People forget how situational a woman's decisions can be, including sexual ones. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 03:20 PM |
| 10 | Is the state of modern relationships going to just keep getting worse or....has it never been better?As much as I hate a lot of what happened in the 1960s, it did explode into being for a reason. We see the carnage of so much unencumbered individual choice and the problems this poses in terms of resisting temptation. But do we fully appreciate just how constrained and trapped people in the 1950s felt in bad relationships? When they no longer felt loved? When they no longer felt any attraction to a partner but had to still have sex with them? Not that one can turn back the clock of course. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 02:51 PM |
| 1 | What constitutes “SMV” for women is not the same as what constitutes “SMV” for menYes, this is why looksmatch and smv match are not the same. You are also right that many men project male mate selection criteria on to women. I do not even like comparing SMV across the genders as women usually just have more raw SMV. It is more productive to talk about SMV RANK, as in what is his or her SMV rank among their own gender, usually as a percentile figure. It is normal for women to mate upwards in SMV rank, at least in the bottom and middle of the Sexual Marketplace tiers. Men are m… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 10:30 AM |
| – | For all you - fertilityYes, the male biological clock is overhyped here as part of the ongoing gender trench warfare. That said, just because a man can have a child at 65 doesn't mean he's going to be a great father at that age. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/02/24 05:19 AM |
| 7 | Why are men encouraging women to settle for men they aren’t attracted to when they know that women aren’t going to pour into a man she doesn’t like ?On a certain level, you joining the bigger conversation and being forthright and honest about your situation IS doing something about it. Many women have trouble doing this. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 17/02/24 05:42 AM |
| 6 | Why are men encouraging women to settle for men they aren’t attracted to when they know that women aren’t going to pour into a man she doesn’t like ?No. The best forms of the argument are asking women to understand the benefits of pairing up, to themselves and to society. And as a result, to at least try to make sure they are not artificially inflating their standards to a point they cannot find a man who will commit to them. That's it. If there is no artificial inflation, and women's true standards are just higher than most of them can achieve, on a hardwired intractable basis, then we have a tragedy with no good answers. But since that is … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 17/02/24 04:52 AM |
| 2 | This sub passively censors red pill discussion through a strange list of “rules” that seems to grow by the dayIt's Reddit and the Internets. There is no perfect solution here. But if some heavy handed moderation isn't used, this place gets spammed by Black Pill whiners and doomers. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/02/24 01:49 AM |
| 3 | Why is it so bad to fall for your friends?It's a lot more common for men to fall for their female friends than the other way around, for a host of reasons. But yes, it does happen both ways. But the bottom line is that 95% of the time you ruin a friendship because you had no chance. If you did have a chance, you'd know it. That is why it is bad. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/02/24 01:46 AM |
| 2 | To what extent do men or women exhibit tribalism when it comes to their own genders?To some extent, women are more tribal and externally loyal to one another because they had to be: Solidarity because men were stronger and could kill them. Women have also evolved to show superficial loyalty to the group, while competing intensely but covertly. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/02/24 01:37 AM |
| 1 | Why is it so bad to fall for your friends?There is some aspect of familiarity reducing the initial mystery that is part of attraction, especially for women. But I don't think this is that important a dynamic most of the time. Really, the issue is not that it is hard to fall for friends at all. Rather, the issue is more that if you are friends, you have likely known one another for a while; and if there had been potential for attraction, she would have shown it by now. You need to meet an attraction threshold for romance to bloom; all th… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/02/24 01:26 AM |
| 0 | Women face no significant penalty when dating in their 30sHer weight has varied. Not sure where she is now. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/02/24 12:21 PM |
| 1 | Part 1: The future is femaleInteresting. My bad assuming everyone is in the US. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/02/24 12:37 AM |
| 0 | Part 1: The future is femaleTo be fair, you can achieve all of this through contracts and don't need to be legally married. I'm not knocking marriage, I think it's great and we need more. Just saying. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/02/24 05:07 PM |
| 2 | Men are having less sex, but women are somehow contracting more STDsEven if one article says what the OP says it does, there seem to be a lot of contradictory studies on what is happening in the current sexual marketplace, including whether the rise in sexlessness is gendered at all. If there is a rise in STIs, and a big IF, it is far from clear what would be the cause. Yes, there is a valid hypothesis that when it comes to casual sex, women are sharing Chad. But another hypothesis is that the higher sociosexuality people all kinda fuck one another, and even thi… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/02/24 07:07 PM |
| 4 | It seems for the average guy every woman is suddenly "demisexual"I don't know where we got this idea that average guys are supposed to be able to have lots of casual sex? A lot of women basically don't do truly casual. Even if they hook up quickly, they are still hooking up with guys they want to try out as boyfriends. But some girls do do the full casual thing. ANd maybe for that they are picky AND weight things like looks and charm more than they would for a relationship. C'est la vie. I'm much more concerned about women becoming too selective so that they … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/02/24 08:16 PM |
| 1 | Is there any legitimate argument to be made for the superiority of women over men?Well that is my point that instincts cant keep up with technologically-driven changes in environment and culture. But I would not characterize women as 'sitting on their asses' during hunter/gatherer times. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/02/24 02:46 PM |
| 1 | Is there any legitimate argument to be made for the superiority of women over men?Sorry. I don't really follow this line of criticism. Nature and nurture usually do intricate dances. Feedback loops. Yes, men had to prove themselves, but then they naturally evolved temperaments that help them do this. Vice versa for women. They had to take less risks--and too much risk for your 'breeders' was bad. So they evolved temperaments that support this. There is no better or worse here. Just better adapted to a given environment. If the genders achieved a sort of equilibrium for the en… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/02/24 09:19 AM |
| 1 | Is there any legitimate argument to be made for the superiority of women over men?Seems a bit of both. As usual. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/02/24 09:14 AM |
| 1 | Stop the Gaslight 1: BluepillWomen are less visual than men in many respects. Doesn't mean male looks don't matter. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/02/24 01:08 AM |
| 12 | Is there any legitimate argument to be made for the superiority of women over men?There's no such thing as 'superior' in evolution, only better adapted to a given environment. The chances of evolution ever doing exactly equal in a given environment are about zero. But the differences can be so small that it is too close to really measure which is superior. Also, given that women have to give birth, the difference in roles makes any accounting of which gender is better adapted overall to an environment hard to determine. But if we are talking about the modern world in the Libe… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/02/24 12:16 AM |
| 1 | Who are the type of young women who date older men? Most women I knew when I was early 20s were chasing hot college boys.Yeah, since not many polls on this, mostly one just has an anecdotal sense at best. Also, it's on a continuum. General sentiment has shifted against age-gapped relationships, but that doesn't mean suddenly everyone views them as super bad or anything. Furthermore, attitudes will vary greatly with demographics: ethnicity, age, region, gender, social class, etc. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/02/24 01:57 PM |
| 1 | Who are the type of young women who date older men? Most women I knew when I was early 20s were chasing hot college boys.That's a bit uncharitable. Everything is online. Depends how well you parse and filter it. I didn't mean I get my info. from like manosphere grifter gurus. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/02/24 10:03 AM |
| 1 | Who are the type of young women who date older men? Most women I knew when I was early 20s were chasing hot college boys.It's not a Jihad. And it is a confluence of many factors, not just feminist politics. But I know that when I was in college, a lot of girls would say this or that older male professor was hot. It wasn't the 1960s. They weren't going to sleep with him, but they did admit to finding them attractive--not many older profs, but a few. From what I can see online, this happens a lot less now. It's more: 'He's 45. Old man. Eww.' | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/02/24 06:51 AM |
| 3 | Who are the type of young women who date older men? Most women I knew when I was early 20s were chasing hot college boys.Maybe if peak woke / feminism has been reached. But there is a lot of political pressure on women not to sell out team female and date too old. Plus, in general, I do agree that ~3-5 years older man is best. Usually, large age-gapped relationships means he is thinking too much with his dick and/or she is being too mercenary. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/02/24 10:52 PM |
| 2 | Is it possible for people to lower their standards through therapy?I agree. What I'm talking about is useful for assessing overall functioning of the sexual marketplace. Society has an interest in individual mating decisions. But on an individual basis, yeah, you have to respect the variance. Can't be thinking graphs and spreadsheets when you dating. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/02/24 10:50 PM |
| 2 | Is it possible for people to lower their standards through therapy?Individual variance is large, of course. But there are strong macro level patterns for what people find attractive, which can serve as a rough guide for modeling population level behavior on a fairly objective and empirical level. Now, of course, 'Beauty' itself is the ultimate mystery. It transcends subjective vs. objective. You cannot even say for sure what everyone finds attractive is empirically and objectively 'beautiful'. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/02/24 01:21 PM |
| 2 | Is it possible for people to lower their standards through therapy?I think the relevant literature supports the idea that even raw visceral sexual desirability is significantly influenced by culture and environment. This is particularly true for women. Such attraction is not really binary after all, but on a continuum. Just one example is how our attraction standards--even for raw desire--clearly scale to our own self-perceived attractiveness. But the scaling is not perfect: You definitely get people at the low end of the SMV tiers who simply are not attracted … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/02/24 01:09 PM |
| 2 | Is it possible for people to lower their standards through therapy?I think you can, to the extent they are inflated beyond some unknowable biological baseline. But yeah, in such cases, they have likely been culturally inflated. You don't undo cultural influences by just 'thinking and talking' usually. Normally, takes time and some behavior and environmental changes, which eventually get some traction. Something like getting off social media or stopping porn usage etc. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/02/24 09:29 AM |
| 1 | The number of people who refuse to acknowledge that men are way hornier than women is a perfect example of why blue pillers can not be trusted to have an honest discussionIt's similar to saying which sex cares more about looks. It's not an apples to apples comparison since dynamics are different. But when it comes to libido, it is fair to say that men have a much higher libido as a very low resolution summary. Women are more complex here, as usual. Have you seen how teen girls lose their fucking minds over an idol? And there is definitely a libidinous and sexual element to that worship. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/02/24 09:24 AM |
| – | ✨️🧚🏻♀️Why are lads personally offended over what a lady does with her body?🧚🏻♀️✨️Part of the reason is concern about the overall way the sexual marketplace works. Whether the assessment of what is actually happening is accurate or not, there is a worry that the widespread monogamy paradigm is dying. In particular, that men can no longer expect to have regular sexual access to women who are at roughly the same SMV ranking. Moreover, there is a specific concern that if the only way for widespread monogamy to work is for women to 'settle' for their rough SMV equals as women get… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/02/24 04:48 AM |
| 13 | Who are the type of young women who date older men? Most women I knew when I was early 20s were chasing hot college boys.It's always taken an exceptional man to be 35 and consistently dating 25 year olds, particularly if he's dating women who are truly desirous of him. The current politics make this even harder. Few women chased older men, fewer still based mostly on true desire. And nowadays, with the aforementioned politics involved, even fewer. Still, if a guy is hot and high status enough with charm, he can do it. But it isn't close to normal. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/02/24 08:03 PM |
| 6 | Men do not have high beauty standardsNot really empirically testable easily, for sure. But what can I say? Feels true from anecdotal evidence and things I have seen online, etc. The exposure to a bazillion perfect naked female bodies digitally has to have some impact. The hedonic treadmill is a well known phenomenon. There was a time seeing a woman's ankles was boner time. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/02/24 10:35 AM |
| 2 | What the "Pills" Get Wrong . . .AIDS doesn't really count as it wasn't a true cultural change. In fact, what we need is fundamental cultural change that will stick even as technology increasingly reduces the hard constraints. In time STDs could almost be gone. Birth control and even abortion might get easier and easier. Sure RvW was undone, but let's see what happens when you can buy a no side-effects, foolproof abortion pill. The right amount and type of sexual constraint in the 21st and 22nd centuries might look different th… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/02/24 10:15 AM |
| 2 | What the "Pills" Get Wrong . . .Yes, I think excessive promiscuity is bad for both genders. More for women, but still bad for men. No idea how society can ever reign in some of the hypersexuality of the modern culture, though. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/02/24 06:02 AM |
| 3 | What the "Pills" Get Wrong . . .I was just saying that in Evo Psych and the like, High Value IS an amoral term. It's part of modeling the SMP as an economy, and the model itself is moral free. I grant you that the reason the term 'high value' gets confusing is that in actual parlance, people often do impute a moral dimension to the term 'value'. And yes, in a deeper sense, even when you model the SMP in an amoral fashion, you are capturing the aggregate morality of the current zeitgeist, at least insofar as it impacts the aggr… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/02/24 05:03 AM |
| 3 | What the "Pills" Get Wrong . . .There is a reason that TRP used to distinguish between Sexual Market Value and Relationship Market Value. Evo Pysch tends to just use SMV or Mate value as an overall, but will sometimes contextualize it. Men generally do have fairly different criteria for casual and serious commitment, with their mate choice dynamics coming much closer to women's (minus the hypergamy) when it comes to serious relationships. Women, as usual, are more complex and harder to characterize. For a lot of women, their c… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/02/24 02:40 AM |
| 2 | Men do not have high beauty standardsIt's hard to say which gender 'cares more about looks', because their mate choice dynamics are different. Men still weight female appearance more heavily compared to other criteria than women mate male appearance relative to other criteria (even if this weighting has crept up for women). But women are pickier overall, have a threshold system with a much less flexible attraction floor, and are much more willing to just walk away and play with cats if none of their achievable options seem sufficie… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/02/24 01:23 AM |
| 11 | Men do not have high beauty standardsI think this is maybe a little overdone. But I do agree that men have not been immune to the distortion of beauty standards that comes from massive overexposure to images perfect (and MORE than perfect) looking people. Because men's attraction floor is more flexible, they will still pair up with their SMV rank equivalents, whereas women often just won't pair at all because now their achievable options don't exceed the sexual repulsion/attraction threshold. But even if men will pair up with their… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/02/24 01:20 AM |
| 2 | What the "Pills" Get Wrong . . .High Value Man or Woman are shorthand for 'High MATE Value' in an economic modelling of the Sexual Marketplace. Thus the terms are completely amoral and simply represent how desired a given man or woman is as a mate, in aggregate, by the opposite sex. You can be a total saint or scumbag and be a high value man or woman in this context. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/02/24 01:00 AM |
| 16 | Switching around "Commitment" for "Sex" may allow more empathy between the sexes?I don't really think you can boil down male and female natures into single imperatives, much less that these imperatives are in complete opposition. But there can be some tension between what each gender is driven to want, for sure. But there are also accommodations that are still win-win synergies. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/02/24 12:57 AM |
| 2 | The gender war is not just an online thingI'm not sure saying you have serious problems with feminism is the same as wanting to take back the franchise from women. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 02/02/24 07:57 PM |
| 1 | Your personality is mostly determined by factors outside your control and changing it fundamentally is EXTREMELY difficult, contrary to what other people might be espousingTrue. They can use it as an extreme example of looks aren't everything, but not as a great example of 'look what you can achieve by self improving your personality'. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 02/02/24 11:58 AM |
| 3 | Women are just as redpilled as men.Women often have more compartmentalized brains than men, able to hold contradictory beliefs and so on, when needed. I hypothesize that this is due to their greater neuroticism and agreeability combined with their evolutionary need to sometimes do things they might feel are immoral on some level. This compartmentalization helps them manage their tendency towards guilt and other intrusive negative thoughts. So that is what I mean that women have an intuitive (from DNA and culture) feeling for what… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 02/02/24 06:15 AM |
| 2 | Your personality is mostly determined by factors outside your control and changing it fundamentally is EXTREMELY difficult, contrary to what other people might be espousingSo what then is actionable from this? I guess have more sympathy for SMP losers of all kinds. I agree, though that should be basic human decency. Also, temper self-improvement expectations. Be realistic. Fair enough. Anything else? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 02/02/24 06:11 AM |
| 5 | Women are just as redpilled as men.At this point, it really depends what you means by 'red pill'. I think it is perfectly acceptable to have a solid understanding of the best evo pysch. But there is a lot of really objectionable stuff that is presented as trp. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 07:37 PM |
| 1 | The gender war is not just an online thingWell if it really was the rules of the jungle then more unrestrained use of male force would also be on the table, though I'm glad it isn't/ I'm not that pessimistic. I think that when we figure things out better, there is a good chance that the demands of female selectivity and the social need for a high monogamous pairing rate can't find an acceptable equilibrium. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 07:32 PM |
| 22 | Women are just as redpilled as men.Women are more naturally red pilled, to a degree. They have more developed social skills in this area innately. And they had to pay more attention to men and mating dynamics than the other way around since men could kill them, or get them pregnant, etc. But female intuitive red pilling is not the same as being fully read in on evo psych or anything like that. They sort of know what they need to know, but there are tons of delusions, too. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 03:32 PM |
| 2 | AD HOC WEEKLY DISCUSSION THREADThere's a lot of evidence that while men want a lot more sexual novelty than men at the top end, women NEED more minimal sexual novelty after 3-7 years in order to be attracted enough to want sex with that man. The male sex drive is more robust that way, even though they also lose some attraction. The theory is that this natural drop in female libido with the same partner is timed to the period required to pair with a man, have a child, and raise it out of extreme dependence (which often include… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 03:30 PM |
| 1 | The gender war is not just an online thingOne of the deeper questions that is still open is whether the genders can remain sufficiently balanced in a high technology society where liberal enlightenment logic has started getting near its end point. We don't know. Maybe various factors conspire to eventually create enormous female advantage at the median. (For various reasons, top men will still win. They always win.) And if such a society cannot keep the genders sufficiently balanced, will that mean a need to change social structure away… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 02:59 PM |
| 2 | The gender war is not just an online thingI think their counterargument would be that in a Liberal Enlightenment system, the only equality we grant is of legal status, rights and opportunity. Sure, some extreme feminists said gender roles in the personal space would also disappear, but this isn't really something a liberal democratic society can do anything about either way. That's all individual stuff to be negotiated by individuals. If that means women have some advantages in the sexual marketplace, so be it; although given women stil… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 02:03 PM |
| 2 | Why is interpersonal chemistry never accounted for in conversations about attraction- only looks?It's not a great policy to constantly be shooting out of your league. For one, it tends to mean you have overprioritized something superficial like looks or status or whatever. Also, the rejection will wear you down, and if it doesn't, you are sort of training yourself to be a sociopath. And if every guy is doing it all the time, well, life is gonna get super annoying for women. It should be more about if you see some girl and she is out of your league, but you feel something extra for her that … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 01:59 PM |
| 3 | Why is interpersonal chemistry never accounted for in conversations about attraction- only looks?I think a lot of men today lack the social skills to really understand the nuance of when chemistry overcomes a looks mismatch. As a result, if you leave the door open to chemistry > looks, they will start wildly shooting out of their league and thinking that THIS TIME they have that magic chemistry with her. They will play a losing numbers game with women that are too good looking for them, hoping to win the chemistry lottery. But yes, people are amazingly weird and complex and varied. So witho… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 10:11 AM |
| 1 | The gender war is not just an online thingThe issue is that while feminism did a lot of good despite its foundations, these foundations were all kinds of wrong. Feminism was primarily based in an inaccurate understanding of human nature, and now the chickens are coming home to roost. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 09:58 AM |
| 1 | How come it is almost never considered that a guy can develop feelings for a woman he is friends with and that he just became friends to get into her pants?I understand the frustration of being in the trenches of the PPD gender war. But I long ago I pretty much went AWOL to preserve my own sanity. I don't spend much time worrying about the dumber arguments (and people) on all sides. Resource/Status hypergamy has, IMO, a more conscious and a more unconscious aspect. On the conscious side, for much of history women simply had less resources and status than men. So if a woman dated a man of equal status, she was often actually dating down in relative … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 08:34 AM |
| – | Men have already lost the gender war and it's bound to get worseTechnology drives massively reduced infant mortality (and other forms), which puts a cap on family size or the population would explode. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 06:06 PM |
| 1 | How come it is almost never considered that a guy can develop feelings for a woman he is friends with and that he just became friends to get into her pants?I think a topic like hypergamy is a good example. It gets outright denied or then de-railed with bullshit like 'well men are hypergamous, too.' I think a lot of men get hypergamy wrong, and TRP goes way too far. But there is clearly something there that is being pointed at. It would be better if more women helped really refine what that is rather than gaslighting that there is nothing there. Or the submission thing. We could use better input from women on that. Submission is not the best word. B… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 05:39 PM |
| – | Men have already lost the gender war and it's bound to get worseThe mother role will never disappear. But even if we get replacement birthrates, we can't have huge families for every woman anymore or the population would explode given current mortality rates. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 04:50 PM |
| – | Men have already lost the gender war and it's bound to get worseBut if you are going to speculate intelligently about future trends, it is helpful to look into the causation as well. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 04:35 PM |
| – | Men have already lost the gender war and it's bound to get worseEngage seriously with the issue as if men were your brothers and sons, not some separate species. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 03:12 PM |
| 1 | Society is finished, terminal stageFair enough. I appreciate you making your priors fairly explicit, which many avoid doing. I meant that of course there is some theoretical level of male sexual exclusion that causes existential problems to a modern civilization. We are not other primates in so many ways. Of course one can never be 100% certain, but it seems unlikely a society would solve with say a 95% Incel rate. But what you are saying is that whatever the danger level is, women are nowhere near THAT selective and we won't get… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 01:51 PM |
| – | Men have already lost the gender war and it's bound to get worseI would think sensible women would ask 'why the hell is this happening' long before it comes to that, right? It seems almost axiomatically obvious from history that a society with high heterosexual pairing rates, stable relationships, and replacement TFR where men and women cooperate well is a healthy society. Obviously, ideally the pairing rate is not higher than it 'should' be based on whatever level of female sexual selectivity turns out to be 'normal' such that women are being forced to slee… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 01:15 PM |
| – | Men have already lost the gender war and it's bound to get worseThis is kinda dark. Do most women view most men as so inherently mediocre, unattractive and predatory that it would be OK to move on without them? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 01:07 PM |
| 4 | What benefits do you value most in a long term monogamous relationship / marriage?Do that for 2 min every morning and check back with us in a few months. Should be ready to play with the other inmates by then. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 01:01 PM |
| 15 | What benefits do you value most in a long term monogamous relationship / marriage?I'm sorry. You have exceeded the maximum mental health and emotional stability thresholds for this subreddit. We kindly ask that you refrain from posting here until you have become sufficiently deranged to contribute properly. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 12:50 PM |
| 1 | Society is finished, terminal stageThe issues posed by low pairing rates are on a continuum of severity. I don't agree with the OP that we are about to see civilizational collapse. I also think that it is normal and natural for there to be more sexually excluded men than women. This is basically what it means to say women are more sexually selective, and free enough to manifest that greater selectivity. But the devil is in the details. Just how selective will women turn out to be in a baseline, biological way as their material ne… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 12:43 PM |
| – | Men have already lost the gender war and it's bound to get worseSure, in terms of men having any special advantages due to physical strength, aggression or courage. Technology is also slowly eliminating the female role as mother. It won't go to zero, but with lower mortality rates, we can't have 3+ kids per woman or the population would explode. So why are women so innately advantaged in a situation where strength doesn't provide much advantage and women don't spend that much time doing hardcore childcare? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 12:36 PM |
| – | Men have already lost the gender war and it's bound to get worseYou can't really talk about the future of gender dynamics if you don't posit some underlying causation. Why is this happening? Why are men underperforming, both against women and historical male standards? Why are men checking out? Why are women's standards rising? Why are women determined to be so promiscuous? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 12:23 PM |
| 1 | Society is finished, terminal stageIt's not that binary. It isn't as if the change that is coming is akin to an asteroid wiping out all but a handful of people and starting again from caves. What we do influences what that change will look like, even if there is some collapse involved. I agree that broadly speaking the biggest issue is that we have almost no ability to control our technology usage. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 12:13 PM |
| 1 | Society is finished, terminal stageWinding back the clock isn't a solution. Can't really be done in general, though on some things, at some times, you can realize you took the wrong turn at a given fork and try to retrace some steps. But it isn't as if some coming change is this completely fixed and unalterable fact. We have SOME control over our destiny, though it is also important to not have hubris over how precisely we can steer such a complex ship as modern society. That doesn't mean we just take our hands entirely off the s… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 11:55 AM |
| 1 | Society is finished, terminal stageI don't think either gender should be moving on from the other. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 11:39 AM |
| 1 | Society is finished, terminal stageThat is a truism along the lines of Keynes' famous line, "In the long run we are all dead." But that doesn't mean we don't try to do anything to steer the ship of civilization as best we can. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 11:33 AM |
| 1 | Society is finished, terminal stageThere is a sophisticated argument to be made about there needing to be more economic and protection need for a man in a woman's life to reign in female sexual selectivity so that the pairing rate is high enough. But I'm not sure that is the argument the OP is making. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 11:12 AM |
| 2 | Red Pill analysis of relationship power dynamics between men and women inevitably leads to supporting ‘traditionalism’ or ‘patriarchy’ as it only thing that can theoretically limit or destroy ‘womens power.’There seems to be a tension between the TRP belief that you should only be with a woman who has genuine desire for you, and the idea that the only way to reduce male sexlessness is to implement policies that restore female economic dependence on a male partner. Doesn't the latter belief up the pairing rate but also increase the number of marriages where the woman doesn't really desire the man? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 10:06 AM |
| – | standards don’t matterRight. But there is a kind of gray area here. How much pressure should one feel to try to truly adjust standards to realistic expectations? If not individually, then for each gender as a whole in terms of what society should be pushing. It's an open question how well society can function if pairing rates drop too low. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 09:48 AM |
| – | standards don’t matterI shame people for having no idea about their actual chances of landing someone who meets their standards. This is just general stupid person shaming, though. But I don't make the mistake many men do of thinking that women with unrealistic assessments of their chances will just lower those standards if they come to realize how little chance they have of landing such a man. No. Many would just opt out then. Fuck up when and if needed, and otherwise enjoy single life. Too many men assume women hav… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 08:36 AM |
| 2 | How come it is almost never considered that a guy can develop feelings for a woman he is friends with and that he just became friends to get into her pants?Seen some data on that. Interesting stuff, but so many potentially confounding variables. Were these friendships where both people were dating others? Or was it one-sided unrequited love until she suddenly changed her mind? Did she change it because she was won over by how much he loved her, or did the guy suddenly accomplish things and change in status? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 07:40 AM |
| 1 | [STUDY] There exists a positive correlation between being a bully and success in dating and sexual relationshipsAs I mentioned in another post, I delved more deeply into this. A problem was that I (and others perhaps) were only conceiving of Bullying in the more extreme and cliche ways, like the Jocks locking the hapless nerd in his locker while everyone, girls included, point and laugh. In today's culture, the social sanction for such extreme bullying might make it counterproductive due to the loss of a certain kind of status. But there is a wide array of bullying that would not generate such sanction an… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 07:32 AM |
| 3 | How come it is almost never considered that a guy can develop feelings for a woman he is friends with and that he just became friends to get into her pants?Ah, well it's a dance at the individual level. I don't expect anyone to be completely forthright, etc. But at the conceptual level, in higher level discussions, academia, etc. women need to really be more candid about the truth, without always having one eye looking at how men might weaponize any admissions as a way to rollback equality. If we get a better common narrative on these things at the higher levels, it will trickle down IMO. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 04:36 AM |
| 1 | How come it is almost never considered that a guy can develop feelings for a woman he is friends with and that he just became friends to get into her pants?Excellent point. Another reason why men need some refined form of TRP socialization to better understand how things work. Women need to get in on this, helping contribute to better male understanding of how things actually are. I get that women are afraid of losing gains made over the past few decades, but they have to stop worrying that accurate understanding of gender sexuality dynamics will undermine egalitarianism. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 03:52 AM |
| 2 | [STUDY] There exists a positive correlation between being a bully and success in dating and sexual relationshipsThat is definitely true. But what is trying to be isolated is whether bullying behaviors themselves increase your ability to attract a sexual partner. It's complex. What I had to remember is that not all bullying is the now cliche, over the top kind where you stuff some nerd into a locker while everyone laughs at him. Given current social mores, that probably works against a bully, lowering his status. But there are probably all sorts of less obvious bullying behaviors that do act as dominance d… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 03:49 AM |
| 9 | How come it is almost never considered that a guy can develop feelings for a woman he is friends with and that he just became friends to get into her pants?Yeah, while some friendzoned guys are what Gad Saad calls 'sneaky fuckers', i.e. betas who know they can't compete straight up, so are trying to use covert methods to get laid, the vast majority of these guys are decent. The main problem is the still present belief in men that you can 'win a girl over' by showing how much you love her, would be loyal, etc. Part of the reason young men believe that is that under certain conditions, this can work and even be decisive. But a lot of young men don't … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 01:01 AM |
| 1 | [STUDY] There exists a positive correlation between being a bully and success in dating and sexual relationshipsI read the study and they still couldn't rule out that bullying and increased sexual activity are not both results of some other variable, like higher aggression levels. Unclear to me that in today's day and age actually being seen as a bully makes you more sexually attractive. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 12:19 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat Megathreadumm...fuck. yeah. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 04:31 PM |
| 1 | Why are some women into 'bad boys'Do you think that the more domesticated and soft and soy boy the 'good guys' in a woman's field of vision get, the more attractive a 'bad' boy' becomes in contrast? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 02:53 PM |
| 1 | Why do so many female offenders get a boyfriend/husband easily?Mostly because men are less selective about mate choice. There's real no male / female symmetry here. I would wager that often the criminal woman is more physically attractive than the man would otherwise get. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 02:18 PM |
| 1 | Why are some women into 'bad boys'The long answer is complicated. The short answer is that female mate choice heuristics, adapted to vastly different conditions, often struggle in a more modern environment. And often 'bad boys' read as excitingly masculine to these misfiring heuristics. This can be particularly true if many or most of the other men a woman knows, domesticated by modernity, read as very beta or feminine to her mate choice heuristics. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 01:38 PM |
| 3 | What is the actual reason why men get shamed for having preferences?I don't believe any healthy society runs entirely on legalistic/contract law morality based entirely on consent. There are other ethical factors at play. I agree that telling a 40 year old man that desiring an 18 year old is unnatural or innately wrong is a mistake. This is a normal male instinct. However, it is perfectly fine to tell him that even if she consents, sex with her is likely bad for him and her. A real relationship is probably worse. In the end, these things are contextual and even … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 11:14 AM |
| 1 | How big of a concern would it be for you if your children/potential children reached adult age without any romantic success?I would be intervening WELL BEFORE high school. I would be very concerned. How I would intervene would depend on what the deficit was. Teaching them to efficiently maximize looks without becoming obsessed with such things is fairly simple, at least conceptually. The tricky part is if they did not conform to gendered expectations in personality. That is highly contextual, but in general, I do believe society should be encouraging people to conform to certain gendered expectations. The tricky part… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 09:35 AM |
| 6 | What is the actual reason why men get shamed for having preferences?I don't think the analogy with homosexuality works; men have other options they are attracted to other than just very young women. I agree that there are unfair politics involved though in what 'bad behavior' gets prioritized as more important to deal with. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 09:04 AM |
| 1 | Predictions for how the dating market will look 100yrs from now?TFR will stabilize at some point. The question is HOW. This is why women's groups should be at the forefront of the TFR discussion, not minimizing it as unimportant. There are better and worse solutions to TFR for women, and the worse ones are really ugly for everyone, but especially women. The same is true of male sexual and romantic exclusion. Given women's greater freedom, I expect a higher sustained level of technical inceldom and the like. This is probably natural and based on women's innat… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 06:18 AM |
| 1 | Women base most of their “preferences” on trends and what is popular, and are far more influenced by what other women think than even their own instincts - the whole 6 foot thing is a perfect exampleThis is a fascinating subject that is ill served by overly sweeping arguments. Yes, I would say that the literature supports the idea that female sexual preference--even at a raw desire level--is more impacted by culture and environment than male. But both are subject to such influence. But there is a biological factor at play that is hard to parse from nurture. It really is hard to get at what the respective contributions of nature and nurture are in a given woman's standards. It is true that m… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 06:10 AM |
| 0 | Q4W: Who is the most romantically/sexually unsuccessful woman you know? What’s their personality like? Describe her.The most sexually unsuccessful men and women are incredibly ugly. The genders share that in common. Now, beyond that, things diverge. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 06:02 AM |
| 2 | What is the actual reason why men get shamed for having preferences?It's just inaccurate to conflate men's almost universal preference for very young women, on a purely superficial desire basis, with pedophilia. Yes. That is politics driven. OTOH, in 2024, a healthy culture should be trying to constrain this desire, and shame is part of how a culture does that. Men shouldn't be shamed for having the impulses, but they should be shamed for leaning into them in thought or behavior. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 05:57 AM |
| 0 | What is the actual reason why men get shamed for having preferences?We are sentient creatures with moral intuitions that will not perfectly map onto every male and female preference being considered equally valid. So you have to talk more specifically. Healthy cultures usually do 'work with the grain' of biology, but at times they go out of the way to do the exact opposite and try to constrain or suppress a given instinct. So it depends. Things become contextual. In 2024, I don't see much virtue in men leaning into their raw desire for exceptionally young women,… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 05:24 AM |
| 2 | I think that breadwinner women should not be shocked at their lackluster marriages.But in the big picture, I wouldn't say things are stable on the resource hypergamy front. Clearly, evolved female instincts are not targeting money exactly. There's a lot of culture going on here, too. The measures you suggest aren't really enough for women to feel protected if they ease off the career accelerator, esp. earlier on, which is when you want them to. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 05:19 AM |
| 1 | I think that breadwinner women should not be shocked at their lackluster marriages.I think you raise good issues. I'm just not generally down for the trolling, though to each their own. I think hypergamy is very real, though the manosphere has gone off the rails in their articulation of it. It is in fact very hard to perfectly articulate what the core, ingrained and biological, instincts are behind hypergamy. We can see that there is some plasticity in how it manifests in the actual, modern world. Current conditions are so new, evolutionarily speaking, that evolved female mate… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 04:38 AM |
| 2 | I think that breadwinner women should not be shocked at their lackluster marriages.It is true that, statistically speaking, female breadwinner marriages seem to be prone to a lot more issues. The OP's trolling and reasoning isn't really worth addressing, though. As for why these relationships often suffer, it is hard to parse causation from correlation. It's also hard to know if this is temporary and things will change as some perhaps vestigial cultural influences dissipate over time. I do think that any decent adult, man or woman, should do equal work in a relationship, gener… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 04:14 AM |
| 1 | What do you suppose influences hypergamy from in a systemic social context?Yeah, back in the period women's instincts were primarily adapted to there would have been a higher natural correlation in a given male between many of the traits women are attracted to, and less internal tensions in female mate choice. Thus their heuristics would have worked better, etc. But status itself would have been much less hierarchically divided, especially in terms of formal status levels. And as you go further backwards in time, before we were humans, from which we get some layers of … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/01/24 07:51 PM |
| 9 | What do you suppose influences hypergamy from in a systemic social context?I disagree that society influenced male sexuality that much. It may constrain male sexual behavior, but it hasn't had that much impact on actual male sexual preference. In fact, the literature generally shows that men's more robust and straight forward sexuality is significantly less impacted by culture and environment than women's. Female sexuality, on the other hand, has always been more complex and full of tensions, even contradictions. As the environment shifts ever further away from the one… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/01/24 10:13 AM |
| -1 | Why do women seem to get "the ick" over the most innocuous things these days?It's true that women are innately more selective. But the Devil is in the Details. HOW selective are they now? Same is true of men. They are also selective, just not as much as women. So the real question is whether women and men are becoming more sexually selective than their basic biology mandates due to the impact of modernity. If so, is this good or bad? If bad, can we undo the influences that are increasing pickiness' in particular, can you dial back those influences without undoing the res… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/01/24 04:54 AM |
| 3 | Most women want socially liberal men who are capable of engaging in “benevolent misogyny “.I don't think anyone has been able to perfectly articulate what hypergamy is, especially in terms of the actual evolved instincts behind it. I know a lot of the manosphere goes way too far and is too certain about their theories, many of which are kinda ugly. I'm also open to the idea that the term hypergamy itself is not the best one. But IMO the concept is clearly pointing at something very real in female psychology. There is a gender asymmetry here. And the woman 'looking up' to her mate in s… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/01/24 04:34 AM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?This presumes that women buy into the idea that people have some sort of duty to pair up and have families, etc. Many women would say that 'so what if I don't find any of my achievable options attractive--guess I stay single then'. Now, it would be better if all women at least had a true understanding of their odds of finding the kind of mate they want. That is true. But it doesn't really change the underlying issue that women don't necessarily believe that they have to accept one of their actua… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/01/24 04:29 AM |
| 0 | What Things do You Do to Support the Opposite Sex?Didn't mean it as a gotcha question. Just legit curious. Thought that would be your answer, but wasn't sure. Could have been an angle where maybe it is more natural for the 'prey' gender to care about itself collectively than the 'predator' gender. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 08:00 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?Yeah, in abstract, women deserve compensation to cover their greater reproductive burden. But there are no easy answers as to the best way to do it in practice. Shared custody seems fair, but it is also often a shit show in practice. Parents just can't get along. The shared custody often prevents both parents from moving on, including sometimes literally moving to another city for work or whatever. Or starting second family. Two homes and moving around and divided loyalty can wreck havoc on kids… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 07:51 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?Maybe. But a lot of that has to do with the higher cost of reproduction for women. And in an amoral aggregate sense, regardless of who the parents are, children are a need and asset for all of society. They benefit men and women equally. So doesn't it seem fair that men transfer some wealth to women to even things out? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 07:26 PM |
| 3 | Those against the Red Pill, where should a man go for dating advice?Everyone knows what will make you more physically attractive. Up to each man to decide how much to prioritize those efforts. The real truth is that men should become the best version of themselves based on their own standards and beliefs. Act with women the way you do with anyone. Just be yourself, but unironically. Then look for women who want you. But accept their judgment and selectivity without bitterness, even if that means that the you the universe created turns out to not be what a lot of… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 07:22 PM |
| 2 | Those against the Red Pill, where should a man go for dating advice?I think at this point the various constituent parts of the manosphere have bled into one another. Yeah, some TRP guys are still entirely descriptive, but prescriptive elements have bled into TRP for sure. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 07:15 PM |
| 1 | What Things do You Do to Support the Opposite Sex?Would you say the same thing about supporting "women"? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 07:08 PM |
| – | CMV: The whole "traditional" lifestyle that is pushed by some red pillers looks unappealing and is counterproductive/contradictoryYeah. Something along those lines. I definitely don't have all the answers. But we need to touch grass here. The large majority of more typical women, whether they know it or not, will be happier with some more traditional gender roles around infant care IF we can find a way to make this work for them. This is what their biology wants, and if you look at the data, many women actually know this explicitly. But they want to have interesting work that pays as well as men per hour when they are not … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 07:04 PM |
| – | CMV: The whole "traditional" lifestyle that is pushed by some red pillers looks unappealing and is counterproductive/contradictoryI honestly think most mothers ultimately would be happier being off work and have primary care of their children during the critical first 3 years. The kids would be better off, too. It's just that we have created a context where the costs are too high. We can't have 3+ kids per woman of the population would explode. So if a woman has 3 children, that still means the vast majority of her adult life will not be about caring for an infant. But if she takes say 9 years off to care for 3 children wh… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 06:48 PM |
| – | CMV: The whole "traditional" lifestyle that is pushed by some red pillers looks unappealing and is counterproductive/contradictoryThese are complex issues. I'm not sure 'it’s not healthy for her or baby to spend 24/7 hours together'. That, in fact may be the healthiest thing, innately. But if that is driving mothers nuts, it probably means society is doing something wrong. It isn't the mothers' fault. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 06:41 PM |
| 1 | What Things do You Do to Support the Opposite Sex?I try to encourage truly honest and truthful conversation about both genders and gender dynamics, regardless of whether a particular truth is uncomfortable for men or women (or both). In the end, the truth is beneficial for both genders and the only way to deal with some modern gender issues is to clear away a lot of the political insanity surrounding gender. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 06:33 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?I get it. Just saying no actual right wing policy for removing rights. But I guess women don't trust them. May start with culture only, but could be rights afterwards. Sadly, the modern left is just insane right now. Not a lot of great options. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 06:15 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?Yeah. Not any kind of legal removal of rights, but many conservatives would prefer more cultural enforcement of certain gendered roles and expectations. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 05:19 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?Perhaps implicitly, I feel a lot of women believe they will never have truly equal rights until a combination of law, culture, technology and economic redistribution eliminate any biology-based disadvantages women have compared to men with respect to the acquisition of material wealth and power. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 05:17 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?Even is we assume your argument, would you really want to increase the heterosexual pairing rate by having women NEED individual men more rather than WANT them more? Do you want to be in a marriage primarily because she needs your economic production? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 05:02 PM |
| 11 | Men who feel their wives see them as Beta MaleIn the West, very few couples marry without there having been some true desire at first. Maybe she had desired other men more in her past; but there was sufficient desire for the husband that having sex with him was viewed as a net positive. At first. With New Relationship Energy, novelty, and youth. Over time, that desire can go down, even to the point where sex is now a net negative for her. It's all very different with an arranged marriage. In theory, more modern arranged marriages are suppos… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 04:26 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?I wish a lot more posters understood it isn't sustainable. Sadly, it is not so 'of course' as it should be. But we have to better understand the TFR collapse before we can address it. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 04:17 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?Yes, but there are limits to this. It isn't a sustainable solution to a TFR that just freefalls forever. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 04:08 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?Hmm...maybe value was not the best term as it implies some holistic, maybe even moral or spiritual valuation. I meant more 'importance to the material functioning of society'. I'm making amoral, materialist observations here, though of course there are other dimensions. I don't view a given man or woman as materially valuable based solely on whether they have kids or not. That said, society does need a stable birthrate one way or another. But that is an aggregate thing, and doesn't mean any give… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 03:19 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?Generally, I agree, though I'm not quite sure there is perfect symmetry here. But I'm making an amoral point about heterosexual pairing rates. Women are more sexually selective than men, including more willing to wait things out if women don't like any of their achievable options. Men will choose to be with women at a higher natural pairing rate than women will choose to be with men if there is less and less actual need to be paired up. And I think this dynamic is more than about the higher male… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 03:04 PM |
| 1 | Why do women seem to get "the ick" over the most innocuous things these days?Well, just like many women will dress sexy and/or wear makeup even at home or when there is zero chance of seeing an actual individual man, being attractive to high value men in the abstract still sits at the bottom of this causation pyramid. But yes, a lot of it is mediated by the female social matrix. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 02:57 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?Women still need men in aggregate almost as much as they used to. However, it is a bit of a tragedy of the commons thing. The value provided by men has been collectivized and distributed to everyone, men and women alike, without anyone actually needing an individual man in their life. This is a good thing on many levels, but only so long as women now voluntarily choose to be with the men who are willing to commit to them. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 02:44 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?I don't even think we fully know what is going on now, much less what the future will bring. The data is muddy and sometimes contradictory. I also believe that with such a complex issue, we naturally can't see ways to address it yet because the public has not really begun to engage with the issue. Before solutions, if any, we need widespread and honest discourse at all levels of society. We have to put aside childish and utopian ideas about how human nature and culture work. We need to be real, … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 02:41 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?Aside from abortion, which I don't view as a 'rights' issue even though I am generally pro-choice, which rights do mainstream conservatives want to take away from women? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 02:36 PM |
| 3 | Most women want socially liberal men who are capable of engaging in “benevolent misogyny “.Yeah, I have yet to find the ideal term either haha Accommodating? Deferential? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 01:45 PM |
| 9 | Most women want socially liberal men who are capable of engaging in “benevolent misogyny “.This is the true core of hypergamy. Not money or resources. Not even status. But being able to look up to her man with respect to some sort of worldly strength and competence. That said, this is the ideal. Without men having an artificial advantage in these areas like they used to, it is hard to pair all women up with men who are above them in these areas. The sorting mechanism just isn't that efficient. So I guess a lot of couples will have to learn to maximize what happiness they can still hav… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 10:51 AM |
| 2 | Most women want socially liberal men who are capable of engaging in “benevolent misogyny “.I basically agree with you. 'Submissive' is a loaded term nowadays and may do more harm than good. At any rate, whatever it means exactly, it is on a continuum in terms of degree; furthermore, we aren't in Roman times. A woman always has 50/50 voting right any time she chooses to (re)assert them, i.e. she can leave whenever she wants. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 10:47 AM |
| 1 | Men having lower standards of cleanliness is not a "flaw"Not sure about that. But I have seen a lot of men simply clean to their own standards and then let the wife do whatever else she needs to raise it to her own. This doesn't end well. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 05:35 AM |
| 4 | Why are so many men subservient to their wife/gf?Not sure how prevalent this is, but here is one dynamic I have noted. Equality isn't just about being formally equal partners. In the real world, you have to earn it in a way, as brutal as that may sound. I've seen a lot of men who don't fully embrace co-CEO of the household and relationship duties. They don't consider a lot of shit and they can act impulsively. So even if they aren't being passive, if their ideas are all poorly conceived or even outright stupid, she is going to have to override… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 05:31 AM |
| – | Would you care if your gf hung out with guys she’s slept with in the past?Not necessarily. This is all very contextual. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 06:47 PM |
| 7 | (Re-upload) What do y'all think of this excerpt about radicalisation in the manosphere?The problem with these types of discussions is that due to having very different prior assumptions about what is actually happening now, as well as what the future will likely bring, people end up arguing right past one another. And the muddy and sometimes conflicting data about the state of the current Sexual Marketplace (SMP) doesn't help clarify things much. Some people feel that at a population level, not much has really changed. The only real change is that sexually excluded men, who have a… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 05:38 PM |
| 1 | Is there a Lizzo Paradox™ for males?Where body positivity comes from and what sustains it are interesting questions. But it is pretty clear from evo psych research, as well as just psychology in general and many other disciplines, that this is normal female behavior. Women evolved to formally and publicly pronounce loyalty to the female group and adherence to officially group supported values. Meanwhile, they compete covertly but ruthlessly, often not actually believing the party line. Women were too valuable to be beating the shi… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 09:46 AM |
| 12 | Is there a Lizzo Paradox™ for males?The men asking women to lower their standards tend to believe that those standards are artificially inflated somehow past any biology-induced minimum, and thus they can actually be genuinely lowered such that after that the woman will truly desire realistic options. This is quite possibly true, but what they get wrong is that if it is true, most of the inflation is cultural and environmental. You have to dial back those influences. Individual women can't easily just flip a switch. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 09:42 AM |
| 3 | Men having lower standards of cleanliness is not a "flaw"You can't take contract law principals and the like into a human marriage and expect anything but disaster. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 07:45 AM |
| 8 | Men having lower standards of cleanliness is not a "flaw"Agree. In the end, the Devil is in the Details. But in general, if you have to spend a couple more hours a week cleaning for your partner to be truly comfortable at home, then what decent person wouldn't do that? But if the difference is a lot more than that, then yeah, you should have checked this before marrying. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 05:01 AM |
| 1 | What are some of your 'favorite' societal contradictions?This is a good one. There are ways to resolve the incoherence, but not when the arguments are made that way. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 04:55 AM |
| 1 | What are some of your 'favorite' societal contradictions?Kinda true. But complex comparison given different mate selection dynamics. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 04:55 AM |
| 1 | Why do men not tell other men to be vulnerable, AND, why do women tell men to be more vulnerable, en masse?It's all part of the historically unique adventure in egalitarianism, and distortions caused by people underestimating the power of evolved gender differences, a belief they feel facilitates egalitarianism. The truth is there are evolved differences in personality tendencies at the population level. Moreover, gender roles and expectations tended to encourage and solidify many of these as part of creating complementarity and the polarity needed for sexual attraction. There are ways for men to pro… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 04:11 AM |
| 17 | Men having lower standards of cleanliness is not a "flaw"If living alone, you really, really do not want to know... | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 03:12 AM |
| 25 | Men having lower standards of cleanliness is not a "flaw"Unless a partner is getting into OCD territory, I believe the one with a lower floor just has to up their cleanliness standards. It's hard to drop your disgust level, etc. If you compromise, then the partner who needs it cleaner will spend their whole life uncomfortable in their own home. Why do that to someone you love? Or worse, they will just do the extra work to raise the cleanliness levels to what they need and resent you for it. Why do that to your relationship? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 03:07 AM |
| 1 | Men erroneously confuse being confident with being an asshole with the whole nice guy/asshole dichotomy and womenHmm....what should be done on the individual level by women in the field is complex. We are never free of our biology entirely, especially when it comes to attraction. But I do hold women accountable for hamstering bullshit at the conceptual level, when we are supposedly talking honestly about something in the abstract. If the conversations could be more honest on all sides at this level, then maybe better practical ideas about what to do in the field would filter down. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 02:56 AM |
| 3 | Telling small d men to be good at oral amd fingering is emasculatingThe OP's reasoning is all fucked up. But yes, telling a man to compensate for a small penis with skills in other areas is a bad message--perhaps emasculating. Not sure. But a bad message. Women have different preferences. I think a man should have the whole repertoire and be eager to fuck, munch and finger, and always willing to get better at any of it. But it is not a contest. You don't compensate for one act with the other. Men with smaller penises need to look for women who don't feel they ne… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 02:19 AM |
| 2 | “genuinely kind guy” is a rebrand of the “nice guy”I don't see it that way. I see it as many people became uncomfortable with the real topic at hand: the complex way that a truly kind personality can interact with female mate choice heuristics. So they side-tracked that conversation by bringing up that a lot of 'nice guys' are not actually very nice. This is true, though we can debate about what 'a lot means'. But this is a separate issue. So 'genuinely kind guy' is an attempt to return to and focus on the original question. That said, no, I do … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 02:12 AM |
| 1 | Men erroneously confuse being confident with being an asshole with the whole nice guy/asshole dichotomy and womenI don't usually have much interest in stuff on the individual level. More of an academic interest in gender and gender dynamics. But I do agree that a lot of female posters are not really forthcoming about this stuff, but one has to have some empathy as to why. And yeah, they should have some empathy for guys, etc. Shitty world sometimes. The value of pure kindness to the genders in terms of establishing the minimal level of sexual attraction is limited. This is true for both genders, but men's … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 02:08 AM |
| 0 | Men erroneously confuse being confident with being an asshole with the whole nice guy/asshole dichotomy and womenNo. The goal isn't to be maximally erotically stimulating. It's to get women and have good relationships. You can be genuinely decent, kind and 'nice' and still do that, at less cost. It's just harder. It's like the Light and Dark side of the Force. The Dark side is both easier and more potentially powerful. But it will destroy you in the end. The Light side can be powerful enough, without the cost. But the work is harder. You don't need to be super agreeable to be kind. Having an edge, being in… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/01/24 05:56 PM |
| 1 | Men erroneously confuse being confident with being an asshole with the whole nice guy/asshole dichotomy and womenYou're genuinely nice because that is the right thing to do. Period. There are ways to be that way and still be attractive. Whether it is MAXIMALLY attractive in a purely erotic sense can be debated, but doesn't really matter. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/01/24 02:45 PM |
| – | „Just go outside and look at couples, bro. Black/red pill is bs” so I did…Interesting work. It's hilarious that when studies are tossed out, a lot of female posters are all about their own lived experiences and anecdotes. Someone does their own informal study, and now they are all stats experts. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/01/24 01:20 PM |
| 3 | Men erroneously confuse being confident with being an asshole with the whole nice guy/asshole dichotomy and womenThere is no doubt that being genuinely kind is better for you and for your relationships. There is also no doubt that you can be more than sufficiently attractive if you are kind. Now, as to whether being an asshole can be sexier in some respects, that gets complex. It does depend on the woman in question, too. But let's remember that the pure hero Archetype is not usually the most erotic of female fantasies. The roguish hero is often more popular. The White Hat may be the male ideal (and even t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/01/24 08:26 AM |
| 4 | CMV: Most Red Pillers (TRP) are actually the most defeatist of all the "Pills"The manosphere is growing but also fragmenting. Many beliefs. Much of it is corrupt as hell, sure. But there are real issues behind it all. Hopefully, the current manosphere sort of dissipates and gets replaced by something better. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 01:51 PM |
| 4 | CMV: Most Red Pillers (TRP) are actually the most defeatist of all the "Pills"As are almost all things today, the manosphere (including TRP) is corrupted by many factors, including the need to make money off of clicks. But I don't think we get far focusing on the worst parts of things. Better to look at what might be driving the manosphere and the strongest forms of those arguments. Men are checking out for causes that are not fully understood. Women are destroying men in education, and this is steadily trickling down into the workplace and economic measures. Innate femal… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 01:48 PM |
| 4 | CMV: Most Red Pillers (TRP) are actually the most defeatist of all the "Pills"These things are tricky. Until you have some critical mass of believers, trying to change the world through your actions kinda is pissing in the wind. Also, there really are no obvious solutions to all of this. So spreading understanding of at least the diagnosis really is the first and possibly only step you can take right now. We need more brainpower focused on how to address the problem, I think, before we start championing specific policy measures. It is really delicate territory. In fact, w… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 01:35 PM |
| 6 | CMV: Most Red Pillers (TRP) are actually the most defeatist of all the "Pills"I disagree. Virtually all healthy societies in the past understood that the group has an interest in individual mating choices. The personal really is, to some extent at least, political here. Now the balance between the group interest and personal autonomy is tricky and not obvious, IMO. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 01:31 PM |
| 6 | CMV: Most Red Pillers (TRP) are actually the most defeatist of all the "Pills"Until there is some sign of a broader movement, most people will live their life with the idea that their actions are not going to contribute to broad social change. They will do what they feel is right or in their interests or even in the interests of friends and family given the prevailing conditions. Depending on the person, their behavior may be very different or exactly the same as if a broader movement were afoot and they wanted to contribute to it. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 01:23 PM |
| 8 | CMV: Most Red Pillers (TRP) are actually the most defeatist of all the "Pills"TRP is ostensibly non-prescriptive and purely descriptive: tools for the individual to use as they wish. However, most TRP content providers do have a prescriptive side. Typically, they do want to change things, but they also know that there is normally a pattern to such changes. They usually begin with changes to the consensus narrative, and many TRPers do do their part to encourage this change. But until the narrative swings, there is no point trying to change the system through individual act… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 12:43 PM |
| 2 | Change my mind: Men shouldn't settle for a woman past her primeI think it is far from clear what is happening in the SMP these days, especially on large scales rather than more corner cases in certain demographics. But yes, in the big picture, a large portion of the female population fucked a smaller number of guys they found truly desirable when women were in their 20s, and then later paired up with guys for the longer term who really got little sexual attention in their 20s, it would be an ugly thing. Not a healthy dynamic overall. However, even if the ab… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 06:02 AM |
| – | Question for RedPill about households where each spouse works full-timeI'm not. Just saying a lot of that kinda deletion happens lately. I get it. They trying to create some discipline in the sub, and sometimes the price of that is a nice thread. Annoys me too, but I also get it. Anyways, so far so good. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 04:43 AM |
| – | Why can't women take an L?What are the victory conditions, then? When can the lib fems give it the ol' George W. 'Mission Accomplished'? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 02:24 AM |
| – | Question for RedPill about households where each spouse works full-timeSure. But that still doesn't mean a man can work roughly the same work hours as his wife, but do way less housework than her because he makes more per hour, and not have her be bitter and resentful. Not how humans work. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 01:04 AM |
| 2 | does social proofing on attraction show how women have lower levels of free will or independent thought?'Free Will' and 'independent thought' are huge areas of philosophical debate in general. Plus, at some point one inevitably gets into language and semantics games in such arguments. The relevant literature strongly suggests that while both genders are impacted by biology and culture/environment, female sexuality is more plastic and influenced by culture and environment than male sexuality. But having a stronger biological component relative to women doesn't necessarily mean men have more 'free w… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 12:47 AM |
| 1 | Male surplus is a problemIt's an ongoing area of investigation. Apparently it is a 1:1 ration at conception, but more female fetuses don't make it to term. However, there are various gender imbalances in terms of miscarriage during different stages of pregnancy. But overall, more female fetuses don't make it. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 12:33 AM |
| 1 | Male surplus is a problemRight. One cannot say China would be better off if the hadn't done One Child. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 12:27 AM |
| 1 | Odds are you won’t be your partner’s “sexist” or “best in bed” - and that’s okayI think there is a lot of variance in women as to what they want from sex. Some women want the passionate, exciting experience more than anything else. This can even be more important than whether they orgasm. And for them, the greater mechanical compatibility you get with a partner over time doesn't mean as much, especially if this tends to come at the cost of surprise and variety as each partner starts to repeat what works mechanically best. Others are more chill. Enjoy the connection and the … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 12:24 AM |
| 7 | Question for RedPill about households where each spouse works full-timeWith some exceptions, it's not about money. It's about total hours of effort. That's how human intuitions work. If you both work 50 hours a week, but the man makes 200k and she makes 80k, he doesn't get to do any less housework. He can splurge on a maid, but you still split what is left after the maid 50/50. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 12:12 AM |
| 1 | Question for RedPill about households where each spouse works full-timeThe edit doesn't matter. Top level posts without redpill flair will still be deleted since you formally made this an ask redpill question. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 12:10 AM |
| – | Why can't women take an L?Evo psych has done a lot of work on inter-female dynamics. Without going too far into it, the conditions women evolved under led to them developing 'formal' equality. It became very important for women to all publicly espouse the equality of each member of the group, while competing viciously in subtle and indirect ways. Women do not at all believe they are all equal. However, one of the best ways to subvert another woman is to accuse her of acting and thinking like she is 'better' than the rest… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 12:07 AM |
| 2 | AD HOC WEEKLY DISCUSSION THREADI think we have way different ideas about how humans actually work. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/01/24 03:40 PM |
| 2 | AD HOC WEEKLY DISCUSSION THREADHe doesn't believe her. He thinks its a kind of worry that the guy will think she is gross unless he knows her well. He thinks if he can show he is not like that, she can get a lot of pleasure right now. Didn't say he is wrong. Just not really motivated by evil. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/01/24 02:38 PM |
| 1 | Why do girls tend to arrange social groups in terms off attractiveness, whereas boys tend to do it in terms of interest?Men consistently weight looks much more heavily relative to other criteria than women do. However, the male sex drive is more robust and indiscriminate, and men are able to find a wider selection of women, even if not ideal, sufficiently physically attractive to desire sex with them. Women weight appearance less heavily than men do relative to other criteria. But they are pickier overall, but often with a kind of threshold system. Women are more willing to walk away if they don't like any of the… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/01/24 01:23 PM |
| 10 | Male surplus is a problemOf course it's a problem. Excessive unpaired males, especially with little prospect of pairing, have always been a big problem for any polity or society. Naturally, this begs the question of what is 'excessive' in a modern context. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/01/24 01:09 PM |
| 1 | Why do girls tend to arrange social groups in terms off attractiveness, whereas boys tend to do it in terms of interest?No. Women and men have different mate selection dynamics. Looks are important to both, ofc. But one cannot say equally important. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/01/24 12:44 PM |
| 1 | Why do girls tend to arrange social groups in terms off attractiveness, whereas boys tend to do it in terms of interest?That would contribute, for sure. Based in biology and then typically augmented by culture rather than minimized. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/01/24 12:25 PM |
| 1 | Why do girls tend to arrange social groups in terms off attractiveness, whereas boys tend to do it in terms of interest?There is a gendered component. I teach in Asia. In places where the dating culture in high school is severely restricted, you can still see the girls clique up by attractiveness to a great extent. But the boys do it more by interest. But once access to girls become more of a thing, then especially at the high end, the boys start mirroring the female clique in a way. Essentially, one of the male interests becomes accessing the highest mate value females; and so that group excludes guys who cannot… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/01/24 12:17 PM |
| – | Should society see more men enter into relationships with aunt - niece pairs?There are many things that might have some explicit benefits in certain ways, but where the violation of human nature and the damage this causes vastly outweighs any such benefits. This be one of them. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/01/24 11:41 AM |
| 9 | Is it controlling to want your girlfriend to not go clubbing?Depends. I used to know some women who really were into the music and the dancing and just danced together, not in super sex outfits (relatively speaking), and found any guys approaching or wanting to dance with them to be annoying. And no, they were not lesbians. But also, its 2024, and we are all hypersexualized. This will have different avenues in the genders. Even the best women will attention whore more than is ideal, and the best men will watch porn. Is what it is. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/01/24 06:16 AM |
| 3 | Why do girls tend to arrange social groups in terms off attractiveness, whereas boys tend to do it in terms of interest?I also teach and have seen the same thing. However, in an environment where dating is really common, often an attractive boys group will form as a mirror to the core group of hot girls because this allows for group hangs, etc. But yeah, even then, the boys group will be a bit less looks based where other avenues to status than male looks are available, like say being good at sports. I imagine that as male looks themselves increasingly grant status that the top male group that forms to mirror the… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/01/24 05:01 AM |
| 4 | AD HOC WEEKLY DISCUSSION THREADI think a lot of guys these do hear a lot of info. about how hard it is for a woman to orgasm from PoV, or that women don't want guys to go down on them because the women are scared they smell or taste wrong, etc. So they actually do want her to orgasm. They do want to show that they are happy with how she is down there, etc. I'm sure there are lots of guys who have selfish or egotistical reasons. But some guys just want to make sure she is enjoying herself and don't know how to balance what she… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/01/24 04:51 AM |
| 2 | AD HOC WEEKLY DISCUSSION THREADThis new Reddit layout is killing me. But I don't like the 'old reddit' layout either. Only option seems to be between 'old reddit' and whatever form 'new reddit' is in. Is there any way to just have what I had like a week ago? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/01/24 04:48 AM |
| – | Are women the primary motivator in most men's lives?It's hard to parse the causation of these things so finely. But yes, men having women in their lives, and the families they can create together, has always been critical in male socialization. MUST it be that way? In any circumstances? With any technology level? Who can know? This does not necessarily mean women must fuck unattractive men for the good of society. Women have always been more selective. Men have always been more innately variable. It is normal for there to be a bigger pool of unma… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/01/24 02:15 AM |
| – | Women wearing revealing clothingThe extent to which women admit the truth to themselves varies greatly. You have to remember the greater susceptibility women have to negative emotions. Sometimes, hamstering to justify these things must convince themselves first so that they do not feel bad about these things. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 23/01/24 04:33 PM |
| – | Women wearing revealing clothingIt's ingrained deeply enough that sometimes women take measures to look good even if they are 110% certain nobody will even see them. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 23/01/24 04:07 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI think there is a much stronger hierarchical aspect, sad as that is. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 23/01/24 03:44 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadPeople are too well matched in looks for how much they consciously seem to value appearance. My new theory is that this assortative process is bolstered by an attraction scaling process. Over time, what you perceive as attractive enough to cross the threshold from repulsion to attraction scales (imperfectly) to your own appearance level. So when an 8 in looks is looking at partners and only chooses 8s or above, it isn't just because they value appearance that much. It is also because 7s and belo… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 23/01/24 03:30 PM |
| – | Women wearing revealing clothingYep, welcome to PPD. Though I will say that this is often bad behavior. A healthy culture will set boundaries for this sort of thing, though where exactly these boundaries should be is fair to debate. But we are way over whatever decent line one could come up with. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 23/01/24 12:27 PM |
| – | Women wearing revealing clothingI'm empathetic in that attention whoring is a natural avenue for female sexuality, so if you live in a digitally-powered hypersexualized culture, you are gonna get a lot of it. It will be hard to resist. It's like teaching abstinence in high schools while teenagers are being sold everything with sex. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 23/01/24 11:47 AM |
| 3 | Serial killer infatuationIt's an outlier, but it is real. An inversion of female nature and socialization. Freedom from constraint, inhibition, expectation, agreeableness. Maybe male cuckoldry or submission kink is something similar. Inverting and casting off male nature and the socially enforced expectations of it. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 23/01/24 03:31 AM |
| 1 | Women wearing revealing clothingEmpathy time. We live in a time of unparalleled sexual titillation. But the genders ARE different. So their sexuality, when overly stimulated, is going to play out differently. Yes, feeling attractive. Feeling sexy. The attention. The validation, even if just imagined as she is alone at home or with family. It all matters. It makes them feel good. It props up self-esteem. It can become essential. It become abstracted and isn't necessarily about wanting the attention, desire or actions of any giv… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 23/01/24 03:26 AM |
| 2 | Why I believe Men are unsympathetic towards Women's grievances in dating.These are outlier women, but it's still a very real thing. It's complex and some of it is probably a mystery. I think I have some of the pieces, but not the whole puzzle put together. Female nature tends to be more agreeable. It is more inhibited, including sexually. Socialization reinforces nature. The truly wild and even evil man is a kind of rebellion against all this. An inversion. It is a frigid wind that seems to blow clean all the confinement. Sex is about disinhibition, and even in less … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 23/01/24 03:02 AM |
| 2 | Even ignoring the RP/BP doomers, how does anyone not becone cynical about long term monogamy when working in an office setting full of cheaters?care to specify? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/01/24 12:46 PM |
| 2 | Bisexual women, is foreplay usually better with men or women - why?Most bisexuals are not truly 50/50 and have sexual preferences and romantic ones. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/01/24 12:36 PM |
| 2 | Even ignoring the RP/BP doomers, how does anyone not becone cynical about long term monogamy when working in an office setting full of cheaters?While we may have some instincts for it, lifelong monogamy is less natural than serial monogamy. And what a life meant in the era we primarily evolved in was much different than what it means now. Think about how hard societies worked to force people together past the serial monogamous 3-7 year period. Now think about how weak most of those forces are now. That said, while maybe not ideal, I do think society can deal with a return to serial monogamy so long as this is not accompanies by too larg… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/01/24 12:32 PM |
| -2 | What do you think is the cause for this to happen?Humans seem to have evolved layered sexual systems. There is a very hypergamous/polygynous system dating back to before we were humans. As the need for greater investment in infant care arose, we developed a more monogamous layer (mostly serial, maybe some lifelong). Overall, I'd say the predominant instincts are serial monogamous for women with hypergamy and greater sexual selectivity than men. Men have a low-investment, fuck everything that moves strategy (including rape sometimes), and a high… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/01/24 10:48 AM |
| 2 | Would you be a beta bucks?I don't buy into AF/BB as TRP lays it out, but it is based on a very factual tension in women's mating requirements. As to whether the scenario you describe is more of a TRP AF/BB scenario, or more of 'a bitterness that the guy didn't get her at her best and now she gets me at my best' TRP scenario depends on the details of how he improved. In real life, in 2024, I accept that I may not be the hottest guy a woman has slept with. I may not even provide the best sex by some dimensions. But if she … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/01/24 04:49 AM |
| 1 | Why do many women say age gap relationships have a "power imbalance" yet say nothing about wealth gap relationships?Sure. Maybe not the same women, though. And maybe more of the more wealthy than more physically attractive. Just throwing out some pieces of a complex puzzle, as are you. I can't pretend I know how all the pieces go together, particularly as things seem in constant flux these days. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/01/24 04:43 AM |
| 2 | Would you be a beta bucks?The question is hard to follow because if a man improves, then depending on how much, he may simply no longer be the Beta Buxx the OP describes. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/01/24 04:23 AM |
| 1 | Why do women love testing menOn an evolved level, what women instinctively want from a man can be faked. It is difficult to suss out what her DNA needs to know. It is extra difficult in a modern environment very different than the one we evolved for. Women will never stop testing, but it's a fair question as to whether there are better and worse ways to do it. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/01/24 04:21 AM |
| 2 | Why do women love testing menThe socialization is built on innate male and female differences in personality tendencies, at a population level. But fair to wonder whether culture should continue to accentuate such differences or try to constrain them. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/01/24 04:18 AM |
| 1 | Why do many women say age gap relationships have a "power imbalance" yet say nothing about wealth gap relationships?Unclear how much the power imbalance is a sincere complaint. Or if it is, then how meaningful. But with an age-gap relationship there is more likelihood that at some point there might be a real attractiveness gap, meaning a chance of 'paying for sex' sort of thing. Also issues when one partner gets disabled before the other, and so on. Sure, a wealth gap could mean an attractiveness gap, but it is less likely to involve one. A lot of women are tired, consciously or otherwise, of men thinking the… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/01/24 04:15 AM |
| 7 | Why I believe Men are unsympathetic towards Women's grievances in dating.Thank you. I really appreciate that. But it is PPD and you gonna get hate if you post here long enough. Just happens. A lot of tribalism on all sides here. Nuance died a long time ago in these here parts. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/01/24 02:04 AM |
| 3 | Why I believe Men are unsympathetic towards Women's grievances in dating.Don't get me wrong, if you dive deep and objectively into it, the whole 'women love assholes and hate nice guys' thing is complex and nuanced. On the whole, it is mostly about bad boy/nice guy traits tricking imperfect female mate assessment heuristics that evolved for a different time. Often the bad boy traits read as more masculine or stronger, while nice guy reads the opposite. There are also unfortunate correlations between bad boy traits and things that are genuinely attractive, and vice ve… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/01/24 02:03 AM |
| 11 | Why I believe Men are unsympathetic towards Women's grievances in dating.I agree. And I often call out women's lack of empathy for men, too. The hate DMs I get are fairly gender balanced. Female selectivity and hypergamy can be an emotional kick in the ass for both genders in different ways. For guys, especially when young, it is confusing when the girls who are around you and you are friends with--who seem on your level and basically are--end up not being available to you the way you end up really wanting them to be. And women often end up focusing their attraction … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/01/24 05:54 PM |
| 26 | Why I believe Men are unsympathetic towards Women's grievances in dating.I can see why many men think the way the OP says they do. But it's a failure of empathy. Women are as much a prisoner of culture and biology as men are. Often, their sexuality, especially when young, is as much a blessing as a curse. You grow up and start to see that for a lot of women, they aren't choosing the bad guy over the good guy. A lot of the good guys just aren't on the menu at all. You were never a choice. And it wasn't necessarily because you were good. You just weren't on the menu. M… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/01/24 04:34 PM |
| 1 | Men don't take responsibility either, and often bludgeon ourselves with our own wall.I said men can potentially age better. Mostly it is because women are not attracted to neoteny like men are, but there are some absolute differences as well as some other factors involved. That doesn't mean the average man ages better as women often take better care of themselves and fight ageing harder. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/01/24 12:31 PM |
| 0 | Which do you feel a woman values more?Well, everything is on a continuum, including how unsuitable #1 would have been as a partner and how much #2 is desired sexually and romantically. So it ultimately depends. But modern women in the West do not actually marry guys they do not feel some attraction to very often. But that is at the start, when both are still usually at least somewhat young and you have novelty and new relationship energy in your favor, and she is trying very hard to find him attractive rather than unattractive. The … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/01/24 11:32 AM |
| 1 | How does hypergamy explain things like gangbang fantasy?yeah the multiple men thing is part of the centre of attention aspect of women. If the gangbang is more forcible it starts to get into the dominance/submission area that is related to hypergamy. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/01/24 03:26 AM |
| 1 | Which do you feel a woman values more?A woman values #2 better, but Guy #2 can't live with being #2 if he couldn't have been #1 as well in different circumstances. Just male nature. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/01/24 03:08 AM |
| 2 | Men don't take responsibility either, and often bludgeon ourselves with our own wall.The Wall for women simply means a decline in raw attractiveness to men. But given a strong modern female preference for age-similar mates, intergenerational female sexual competition is pretty limited. Thus, the impact of the Wall is also limited. It's true that due to men potentially ageing better than women in terms of raw sexual attractiveness, and female attitudes changing as they age, the raw smv of the genders does balance out more later on. But there are also more older people--male and f… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/01/24 02:42 AM |
| 1 | Falling fertility rates seem to be a problem of falling marriage rates, which in turn seem to be due to lessening of the gap between male and female privilege. Hence it might be impossible to raise fertility rates unless egalitarianism is challenged.I dunno. This is all a weird thought experiment. At some point there is no adaptation to below replacement TFR. The state breaks down. Or you become an authoritarian nation before that point and everyone, men and women alike, loses their human rights. It's hard to say. One hopes that at some point before then population stabilizes voluntarily somehow, maybe because underpopulation factors eventually make having kids super attractive somehow. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/01/24 02:34 AM |
| 2 | Is approaching women something men are stopping to do? Is it also frowned upon? Also is male sexuality demonized?Fair enough. I may not have the proper, most up-to-date terminology. Will have to look that up: consciousness, self-awareness, sentience, etc... | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/01/24 09:06 PM |
| 1 | Do you believe in the idea of "just be her first?"Alpha-widowing happens--more to women, but to men as well. That said, it's a pretty extreme thing, so it is probably overdone by the manosphere. But in general, if the ultimate goal is to pair as many adults as possible into stable long-term relationships with decent and sufficiently pleasurable and meaningful sex lives, then excess comparison is not great for either gender. The partner who is overall the best fit for you is likely not the one who will be the most purely sexually arousing or sti… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/01/24 08:38 PM |
| 1 | Is approaching women something men are stopping to do? Is it also frowned upon? Also is male sexuality demonized?We are the only conscious creatures. With that consciousness came moral intuitions. Sadly, this morality is not going to map equally onto all evolved but gendered instincts. Neither male nor female sexuality is, in and of itself, immoral. But yes, by most moral systems operating today, male sexuality is more likely to go off the rails and become immoral or lead to immorality. It needs more constraint and channeling. That said, yes, of course female sexuality also needs constraining and can lead … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/01/24 07:40 PM |
| 3 | How can LTRs last when modern men discard women who reach thirty or forty?It helps that men often have less options and a much more flexible attraction floor. We may lose attraction, but what we still have is enough that sex is still desired. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/01/24 03:30 PM |
| -1 | Men and women are not equal and will never be equalSure. You make reality conform to the law or the law conform to reality. Pick one. I agree. In general, I think the West has gone too far in trying to eliminate gender roles. Culture plays an important part in behavior, but there are limits. We are in the biological redline now and it is biting back. Time to push the other way and start culturally and perhaps legally enforcing more gender roles. Unclear exactly what that looks like in the specifics, or how to best square it with core liberal enl… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/01/24 04:43 AM |
| 2 | Men and women are not equal and will never be equalThe golden rule is that your society has to be materially competitive with others, or they will come visit you in space tanks while you bounce arrows off of them. So if other societies are exploiting their female human capital, whatever you envisioning had better be as materially competitive. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/01/24 04:19 AM |
| 3 | Men and women are not equal and will never be equalSure, this difference exists. But how much does a sentencing imbalance really move the needle in terms of overall gender balance? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/01/24 04:08 AM |
| 2 | Men and women are not equal and will never be equalI'm working on it. So legally, how would you change things? Take the vote from women? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/01/24 04:01 AM |
| 4 | Men and women are not equal and will never be equal'Equal' is like when people too casually talk about the 'average guy': meaningless without more context. There are too many dimensions to view equality through. No two different things can be completely equal in every dimension. So it's more a matter of getting into the weeds on the specifics. In a conceptual sense, I view the moral value of men and women as equal. Society should prioritize their true happiness (whatever that means) equally. Beyond that, we can talk. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/01/24 03:51 AM |
| 3 | FEMINISM WEEKLY DISCUSSION THREADMost who talk about male privilege do think that on the whole men are still majorly advantages. These people may or may not believe women have any special privileges of note. I don't really talk of male or female privilege, but I do expound upon various advantages each gender has in a simple attempt to better understand the world. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/01/24 12:24 PM |
| 1 | FEMINISM WEEKLY DISCUSSION THREADIs this maybe because for some religions touching a non-related member of the opposite gender is in fact a huge deal? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/01/24 11:19 AM |
| 1 | FEMINISM WEEKLY DISCUSSION THREADWe have never managed--and never will--to eliminate all gendered roles and expectations. Clearly men and women each have different advantages. How they add up in terms of overall advantage is pretty tricky math at this point as neither gender seems so overwhelmingly advantaged that you can dispense with any need to calculate. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/01/24 11:17 AM |
| – | One primary detriment of Blue-Pilled thinking is the glossing over of basic human nature.Don't want to spend too much effort here as some mod will probably scrap the whole damn thread because you have an assertion as your title, but you flagged it discussion. * Sigh *. But yes, the issue with a lot of now prevalent ideas is a basic disregard for the constraints of human nature. You can put many kinds of feminism in this camp, as well as a lot of progressivism. But since we are going to give human nature its due, we have to remember human nature is strongly gendered in many ways. As … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/01/24 11:10 AM |
| – | Why don't RP/PP talk about obesity and its effect on the dating market?TRP as a praxis deals with by saying 'get in shape and then date women who are also in shape'; let everyone else go to fast food hell. Enjoy the decline. Now, TRP thinkers in their more prescriptive moments do talk about obesity from time to time as well. To some extent, on the macro level, obesity is basically hand waved away on the assumption that since both genders suffer from it roughly equally, it somehow just balances itself out and is a non-factor. I think this is a bit naively hopeful. F… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/01/24 10:42 AM |
| 1 | How do you think we can tackle kink inequality....or should it even be a concern?I think we need to go the opposite direction. We have pushed too far trying to eliminate all gendered roles and expectations, into a biology-induced red zone where biology pushes back and you get all sorts of problems. Culture has room to minimize and maximize various gendered roles in a society, but there are limits. So we should be easing off the push to de-gender society and trying to find ways to make this work with our overall gender egalitarianism and liberal enlightenment beliefs such tha… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/01/24 10:34 AM |
| 2 | If woman have the choice over abortion, should men have the choice over child support?It depends what the details of state support are. Maybe one could look at it as insufficient moral hazard. Either way, seems likely that the more the state subsidizes any babies under any conditions the more likely it is that the wrong people have too many babies. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 05:14 PM |
| 1 | If woman have the choice over abortion, should men have the choice over child support?Yeah, I agree that in practice paper abortions probably just end up leading to a lot of bad consequences. But was just exploring that argument. Ultimately, women gotta be careful who they fuck and so do men. Not about fairness or anything like that. Just reality. Maybe if we get to a non-scarcity world, that equation changes. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 05:09 PM |
| 1 | If woman have the choice over abortion, should men have the choice over child support?Infanticide is rarely done easily or without some shame, though. And usually requires fairly extreme absolute conditions of scarcity. Infanticide without such conditions seems hard to justify by most moral codes and systems today. And no, I said that maybe you could justify paper abortions in a situation where the man is willing to pay the cost of the abortion and the woman has access to it. Thus, the woman can make an informed choice knowing that there will be no paternal support. The idea bein… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 05:06 PM |
| 2 | What age is dating truly over for a guy?But the suffering the consequences is likely the consequences of not having made the needed changes, not of having missed a chance to develop--although the latter has some impact. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 03:57 PM |
| 9 | What age is dating truly over for a guy?Exceptions happen. But likely that guy found a way to change, or was always attractive and something prevented him from consummating that until older. Age-Inappropriate levels of inexperience in men is a red flag, but that just means investigate closely. If upon further looking he is attractive, she will still be attracted. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 03:55 PM |
| 2 | How true is the Madonna Whore complex for guys?To be fair, I never dove much into it. I'd have to read more to figure out how women become Madonna's. Usually, as the name suggests, by being mothers I expect. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 03:49 PM |
| 0 | How true is the Madonna Whore complex for guys?It's nothing about single mom's per se. Every woman is a whore at first. But some women become Madonna's who cannot then be fucked again. Maybe through committing to them or maybe through becoming mother's or whatever. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 03:31 PM |
| 2 | What age is dating truly over for a guy?I totally agree there is a negative feedback loop here. But too many guys focus on the idea that if they didn't say get to be with women romantically in high school, the MAIN issue is the competitive disadvantage of not having developed romantic skills during those years. The lost time. That is an issue, but most of the problem is whatever qualities were in you that caused you to be sexually excluded in the first place. As an example, imagine an inherently less attractive guy (in personality tra… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 03:17 PM |
| 2 | Clearing the Ground: Towards Definitions in Light of EvolutionA stricter use of occam's razor is for working on a problem and making calls when you do not have definitive evidence. But in terms of an overall description of where we are at in terms of our best probabilistic assessment of the facts, it is better IMO to note your best guess at probabilities for all major possibilities. This can include noting what occam's razor would suggest, ofc. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 03:02 PM |
| 10 | How true is the Madonna Whore complex for guys?In psychoanalytic literature, a Madonna–whore complex (also called a Madonna–mistress complex) is the inability to maintain sexual arousal within a committed and loving relationship.[1] First identified by Sigmund Freud, who called it psychic impotence,[2] it is a psychological complex) that is said to develop in men who see women as either saintly Madonnas) or debased whores. Men with this complex desire a sexual partner who has been degraded (whore) while they cannot desire the respected partn… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 02:59 PM |
| 4 | How true is the Madonna Whore complex for guys?my understanding is madonna whore is about NOT wanting to fuck a woman who has had kids, even your own, no matter how hot she is. Trump had it huge. Maybe it happens mostly in men swimming in options, a sort of luxury belief. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 02:54 PM |
| 4 | How true is the Madonna Whore complex for guys?I think it is pretty rare, to be honest. At least in terms of it being significantly impactful. There aren't that many guys who wouldn't be attracted to a very hot young woman just because she has had kids. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 02:46 PM |
| 1 | What age is dating truly over for a guy?Yes, but in terms of the impact on female selectivity and how many men are sexually excluded, they could be powerful. So university might be a harder sexual marketplace than it used to be for 'average' guys. Even better for top tier ones--and it was already awesome. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 02:38 PM |
| 2 | What age is dating truly over for a guy?It's always the same at the individual level: level up as best you can, lower your standards, move to an easier/better market, or come to terms with your fate gracefully. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 02:37 PM |
| 2 | Clearing the Ground: Towards Definitions in Light of EvolutionThere's some interesting literature on how people used various means to limit birthrates throughout history without actually just limiting sex. Whether this was prevalent enough to create any kind of direct instinct for children is hard for me to say. Thus I leave it as an open question beyond my current competence to address. If I had to guess, there would be SOME direct instincts for kids, but not strong ones. But I really have no idea for sure. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 02:21 PM |
| 3 | Is personality more important to men or women?Merci. I always find these 'Do men or women care more about' questions frustrating. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 02:17 PM |
| 2 | What age is dating truly over for a guy?That does happen. And to be fair, it's not clear to me exactly how much the university dating scene has changed. I was surprised at how much online dating apps are used there given this is probably the environment where you need them least. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 01:49 PM |
| 2 | What age is dating truly over for a guy?The modern university experience is almost custom designed to hook people up, so yeah, if you can't get laid there, well... | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 01:40 PM |
| 2 | Clearing the Ground: Towards Definitions in Light of EvolutionI haven't really investigated the literature on this specific question. So given what I do know, I'm just saying where I am at. I can't rule out any specific instincts to procreate, but I definitely believe instincts to have sex and care for children are much stronger even if we do have some direct instincts to reproduce. Evolution is not always maximally parsimonious, and there could definitely have been an adaptive advantage to directly wanting children. Humans have used a variety of technique… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 01:39 PM |
| 2 | Clearing the Ground: Towards Definitions in Light of EvolutionI'm not sure how you would create a test to parse nature from nurture on this one. Clearly, many people have a desire to have children. But is any of this instantiated into our DNA, or is this all done through mimetics? I don't know. The principle of parsimony would suggest that there is no need for us to evolve a direct instinct for having kids: only for having sex and for caring for existent children. But evolution is not always parsimonious, or there may have been a need for direct instincts … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 12:56 PM |
| 2 | Clearing the Ground: Towards Definitions in Light of EvolutionI think Alpha and Beta do more harm than good unless simply being used as very casual shorthand in a context where 'close enough' is sufficient. The AF/BB, Dual mating, etc. stuff all just point to the internal tension between a woman's desire for Good Genes (GG) on the one hand, and Provisioning, Protection and Paternal Investment (3P) on the other. I would argue that in the Environment of Evolutionary Adaptedness (ERA) there would be stronger correlations between GG and 3P qualities in any giv… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 12:28 PM |
| 2 | Clearing the Ground: Towards Definitions in Light of EvolutionIt's not clear to me we have no direct instincts to have children, but I grant that the stronger ones are to have sex and to take care of children that exist. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 12:18 PM |
| 2 | "You have to work 10 times harder than your grandfathers for women 10 times worse."I really appreciate that you have an open mind and ability to understand nuance, since these things are pretty much all about nuance. Devil is in the Details, like maybe 20% Incel Rate would be OK, but at 50% disaffected men burn the whole fucking place down. Hypergamy is not bad. I agree. It's a question of how intense that hypergamy is, and what heuristic markers it is using in what represents a novel environment vis a vis our evolutionary instincts. Also, there are some tensions with too much… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 11:54 AM |
| 4 | "You have to work 10 times harder than your grandfathers for women 10 times worse."Female reproductive costs are much lower now. Families are smaller. Technology reduces the damage done by having children. But they are still greater than men's, of course. And you are right, men don't really offer much now that a woman doesn't in a relationship. Most sane people understand that basic biology accompanied by the above dynamics means that women will, on the whole, mate up in SMV rank. There will always be more unmarrigiable/unfuckable men than women. The real questions is HOW sele… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 11:17 AM |
| 2 | "You have to work 10 times harder than your grandfathers for women 10 times worse."True. But humans are sui generis. We have consciousness. Culture. Technology. If you max out on female sexual selectivity and male intersexual competition, then you may get more eugenics in one way. However, if your polity or civilization cannot compete because it becomes dysfunctional then it isn't worth it. You need to balance these things out. So there are broader questions at play. What is our mating and child rearing paradigm? Is it OK if men who want a mate just have to work harder in life… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 10:10 AM |
| 4 | "You have to work 10 times harder than your grandfathers for women 10 times worse."Because it is not just a new set of competition criteria for men. Women having higher absolute standards than men and being more willing to just walk away, stay single, or time-share top men means that in the big picture, a man has to work harder to get a partner of similar SMV rank than a woman does. OTOH women still have greater reproductive costs, though those costs are declining with better technology and smaller families. Men are arguing that 'all in' a man just has to do more to get a woma… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 09:57 AM |
| 3 | "You have to work 10 times harder than your grandfathers for women 10 times worse."Well, to play Devil's Advocate a bit, I think it's quite possible that if women started choosing mates using the exact same criteria than men do, men would adapt. There would be a transition period with a lot of whinging, but in time nobody could doubt the equity of things. The male complaint today seems to be that women are layering on male-levels of concern about partner appearance to all the traditional female requirements. And still, if this was just a sorting mechanism change, but women too… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 09:52 AM |
| 1 | If woman have the choice over abortion, should men have the choice over child support?This wasn't my ideal scenario. But in discussions we usually see if there is common ground, or opinions can evolve as a result of dialectic. Guess that isn't going to happen here. All good. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 09:38 AM |
| 1 | If woman have the choice over abortion, should men have the choice over child support?I said there would be limits on paper abortions that match the women's limits on the abortion. The man must pay for the abortion, and he cannot have a paper one in any situation where the woman could not have a real abortion. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 09:24 AM |
| 1 | Falling fertility rates seem to be a problem of falling marriage rates, which in turn seem to be due to lessening of the gap between male and female privilege. Hence it might be impossible to raise fertility rates unless egalitarianism is challenged.I have a very open find to the causation behind the TFR drop. It is probably a messy mix of many factors. Economics definitely seem to be a culprit. The economics themselves are interesting as they are a mix of hard facts and psychological expectations. Having more money does not always match up with more kids. By certain metrics, even today's middle class have enormous levels of prosperity in absolute terms. However, their expectations in terms of minimal acceptable lifestyle (for them or any p… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 09:22 AM |
| 7 | What age is dating truly over for a guy?Of course it is generally on a continuum, though if you can't get anything in college that is a serious indicator of trouble. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 09:18 AM |
| 4 | What age is dating truly over for a guy?Well, no doubt falling behind in development is a factor. But I would say most of it has to do with each milestone further confirming how innately unattractive you are to the opposite gender. And as you get older, the massive change required gets harder and harder to do. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 09:17 AM |
| -2 | If woman have the choice over abortion, should men have the choice over child support?But there are serious issues with allowing super late term abortions. It doesnt have to be unlimited fertility control on the female end to allow for any limits on male responsibility. They could both have some limits and still be equitable in that scenario. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 06:53 AM |
| 10 | What age is dating truly over for a guy?They maybe are. If the same thing is true by 30, you are at the next level of trouble. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 06:51 AM |
| 3 | Falling fertility rates seem to be a problem of falling marriage rates, which in turn seem to be due to lessening of the gap between male and female privilege. Hence it might be impossible to raise fertility rates unless egalitarianism is challenged.Sure. There is an argument that we are currently overpopulated. But this kicks the can down the road in a sense. At some point we must have replacement TFR. And I don't see any clear evidence that overpopulation signals are the primary cause of the current drop. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 06:50 AM |
| 7 | Falling fertility rates seem to be a problem of falling marriage rates, which in turn seem to be due to lessening of the gap between male and female privilege. Hence it might be impossible to raise fertility rates unless egalitarianism is challenged.I get that dealing with morons must get frustrating. But while I in some weird theoretical thought experiment, TFR trumps almost anything, I don't think this is particularly relevant to the real world. Or doesn't seem so from where we are now. I don't believe in sci-fi solutions. However, we just do not fully understand TFR and pinning the drop to female attitudes is premature. Maybe completely wrong. The data is muddy and mixed, but there is a lot of evidence that women DO want more than enough… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 06:49 AM |
| 1 | Falling fertility rates seem to be a problem of falling marriage rates, which in turn seem to be due to lessening of the gap between male and female privilege. Hence it might be impossible to raise fertility rates unless egalitarianism is challenged.Sure. But baked into this hypothesis is the idea that the birthrates do go back up. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 06:29 AM |
| 3 | Falling fertility rates seem to be a problem of falling marriage rates, which in turn seem to be due to lessening of the gap between male and female privilege. Hence it might be impossible to raise fertility rates unless egalitarianism is challenged.It's hard to conceive of a scenario where we for sure know that gender equality always = sub-replacement TFR and thus undoing egalitarianism is the only solution. But yes, in this theoretical world, the need for babies would trump just about anything else. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 06:28 AM |
| 5 | Falling fertility rates seem to be a problem of falling marriage rates, which in turn seem to be due to lessening of the gap between male and female privilege. Hence it might be impossible to raise fertility rates unless egalitarianism is challenged.The problem with this analysis is that marriage rates don't fall in a vacuum. Thus, there are a whole bunch of potentially confounding variables here that would need to be tested before one can assume that lower marriage rates themselves are the primary cause of the TFR issue. One could say the same about gender equality. It is a complex issue that nobody seems to understand close to fully with any provable certainty. But yes, if we could somehow know that gender equality always tanks TFR, and t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 06:26 AM |
| 39 | What age is dating truly over for a guy?Of course it is never truly over. But yes, there are essentially negative milestones and major inflection points. But a lot depends on demographics and such. But if you are an American middle class and above man goes to college, as one example, then if you haven't had a date or slept with a woman by the end of university you are in big, big trouble. Not so much the whole 'I am now behind my competitors in terms of opportunities to practice social skills'. More, it is indicative of huge inherent … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 06:21 AM |
| 5 | If woman have the choice over abortion, should men have the choice over child support?I theory, yes. In practice, no. At the end of the day, if there is a child, someone has to take care of it. If the woman cannot do it by herself, the state would have to step in. But that creates very bad incentives on a population level. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 06:11 AM |
| 2 | If woman have the choice over abortion, should men have the choice over child support?I don't think rule 1 necessarily follows since the right to paper abortion could be similarly conditional: If the man is willing to cover the costs of the abortion and it can be done safely, then he has the right to the paper abortion. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 06:09 AM |
| 2 | In the current year, do you think men should pay for dates? Why or why not?I don't think humans can abandon gender roles entirely, no matter how hard they try. But you do want norms to settle into an equitable pattern overall eventually. In theory, given women's greater reproductive costs, it would be OK for men to put more into the courting period. But this depends on how many other things turn out. If it becomes common for men and women of a certain demographic to be going on a lot of dates every month, then men paying for all of them is too high a cost to be fair. N… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 04:17 AM |
| 4 | Is personality more important to men or women?These direct and simple comparisons are problematic because each gender has a different selection mechanism. Relative to other criteria, men still weight female appearance more heavily than women rate male appearance relative to other criteria; the opposite is true of 'personality' (though personality is a big tent). But women are more selective in general and have a unique hypergamy dimension to this selectivity. Women are also less willing to settle, and less satisfied with getting less than t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/01/24 03:51 AM |
| 1 | The way TRP describes female submission makes 0 senseSemantics fights are rarely productive anyways. What we are really arguing about is the degree of relative dominance women want from their mate, on an evolved level. It's a continuum and we are searching for the best word to describe where it sits on that continuum. Clearly you probably think that the answer is further along on this spectrum, closer towards submission or whatever, than I do. All good. It's an open question and fair argument. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 06:33 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadSure. Lots of different takes on this stuff. I just exploring different people's views. Not sure what I believe in terms of the bigger picture and what is common or not. I also meant few men could live with it if for whatever reason he and his wife can't also get to that level, even after trying. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 04:45 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI dunno. I have doubts about the veracity of any of this. But it is more interesting to assume it's real for sake of discussion. And that includes that the video was pretty convincing that she was loving it and not faking it. I'm good with accepting that in a world where we all have had many lovers, the person you end up with might not be the most purely attractive you have been with, or the absolute best sex. But at the same time, sex with a past lover can't have been on a whole other level. No… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 04:01 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadThe point is that the sex he is having now is clearly not driving her as wild as that was. Like if my GF once loved anal and bdsm, but now does not, but what we do is at least as exciting and satisfying, all good. But if most women have lovers in their past who took they to whole new sexual heights (however it was done), but have just accepted that this kind of pleasure has to be traded for a stable husband, then Houston we have a problem. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 03:50 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadYeah, we can debate the extent to which this represents typical female sexuality. But the gaslighting is extreme. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 03:22 PM |
| 2 | Is the problem with modern dating simply due to options and economics?Well, as they say, there is room in the joints. It is unclear how selective women are if you remove most artificial amplification of their standards. And society can probably handle a sustained incel rate larger than seen in the past. Just not too high. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 12:11 PM |
| 0 | Is the problem with modern dating simply due to options and economics?They don't to be thrown a fuck. They want to be lusted after and fucked. And so we replace Beta male suffering with female suffering as they have to fuck guys they find unattractive? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 11:59 AM |
| 4 | Is the problem with modern dating simply due to options and economics?But most modern men say they only want a woman who truly lusts after them. So if women do turn out to be so selective that like 40% of men cannot generate lust from almost any woman, then we are in a bind. Sure, the men who become the new incels dont want to pay for Chad's babies. But we also need babies. And the men don't want those women duty fucking them just to have kids. So where does that leave us? What is the way out of that bind? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 11:43 AM |
| 3 | Men are delusional as much as women, if not more.Yes, men overestimate themselves and chase out of their league. Sometimes even knowingly. But at the end of the day, I think this is somewhat peripheral. If we have an issue with pairing rates or SMV imbalances, it will primarily be as a result of female selectivity. This, ofc, doesn't mean it is necessaarily women's 'fault'. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 11:23 AM |
| 11 | Men are delusional as much as women, if not more.The underlying issue is that at the end of the day, most men believe in the widespread monogamy paradigm and have expectations to match. Even if not applied always to relationships. This is to say that while acknolwedging women can be a bit more selective, we should still see the vast majority of men having regular sexual access to their rough SMV rank equivalent, whatever form that access takes. I think women are undecided. Not sold. Wanna see how they feel as they stop needing to trade sex for… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 11:20 AM |
| 2 | Men are delusional as much as women, if not more.I dunno how true that is at the end of the day. Happens. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 11:15 AM |
| 0 | Men are delusional as much as women, if not more.The Wall only means that raw, visceral sexual attractiveness of women drops fairly fast. But what that means in practice is very culture and environment dependent. For one, with technology, the Wall happens later and the decline is less steep. In addition, as women are less inclined to date much older men now, it isn't as if post-wall women are fully competing with pre-wall women for the same men. Thus less of an impact on actual options. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 11:01 AM |
| 0 | How do you think you guys will handle it once it's over and you're settled down?Everyone struggles with lifelong monogamy. It seems like our instincts involve layers of programming, with polygamy, serial monogamy and lifelong monogamy being in different layers. And serial monogamy is probably the strongest. Yeah, the dynamic you describe intensifies the difficulty of staying with one partner and the lack of sexual novelty involved. But ultimately the same issue. Some sort of consensual non-monogamy is a possibility for some people, but haven't seen many systems that work we… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 10:59 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadYeah, a lot of people figure things like obesity just cancel itself out since each gender is roughly equally affected. But that may not be true. For one, the genders value different things to different degrees. A society of pudgy, soft and sedentary people may lower male attractiveness more than female. Furthermore, even ignoring gender differences, two thin people may be more motivated to fuck and pair up than two equally fat people. Sometimes you just don't find someone attractive even if you … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 10:51 AM |
| 3 | Why do all feminist subs block most discussions that aren't positive of them?One factor is that the angry element of the manosphere is out of control on Reddit. Without strict moderation, Feminist subs will be invaded and overrun by manosphere denizens as extreme and incoherent as the feminists. This provides the feminist subs with an excuse to do what they wanted, anyways. A lot of those in feminist subs are so indoctrinated that they believe a lot of 'facts' are as proven and obvious as that water boils at 100 degrees. They feel there is no discussion to be had there. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 10:48 AM |
| 3 | Is the problem with modern dating simply due to options and economics?I dunno. We don't yet know how selective modern women will turn out to be, even with contraception. It's also unclear what removing contraception would even do post sexual liberation when the institutions that encouraged people to see the value of having kids are gone. Maybe instead of harem fucking Chad as some people assert young women do, the ones who couldnt have Chad's babies would just opt out rather than have kids with Beta Billy. Maybe they would have Chad's babies as single moms. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 10:43 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadWell, in terms of the big picture, it isn't as if MOST men pairing up is some magical threshold, as many posters seem to imply. (Not meaning you.) Mating dynamics are pretty sensitive to even significant changes at the margins. If women turn out to be say (to pull a somewhat meaningless number out of my ass) 30% more selective than thought, then that could make all the difference between social breakdown or not. It might decide between a longterm incel rate of 15% and 40%, again just using bulls… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 10:40 AM |
| 14 | Is the problem with modern dating simply due to options and economics?The issues you list are potential problems. We don't fully understand their impact. But not, the real underlying question is how sexually selective women really are, on a relatively intractable and hardwired basis, as their need for a man trends towards zero. We don't know. Are we artificially increasing female selectivity? If so, can this be undone? At what cost? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 10:02 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadYeah, the whole RMV vs. SMV complexity is a can of worms. Most researchers just stick to SMV for the whole thing, and posit different SMVs and ranks for casual vs. relationship. But even for casual, the % of SMV that is pure appearance is an open discussion IMO. I dunno if things were THAT dire in terms of women marrying guys they weren't sexually attracted to. But that too is pointing at the biggest of all the unanswered questions. The one that really matters: How sexually selective are women, … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 09:50 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadIt's useful for conceiving of and roughly modeling large scale mating behavior. We haven't really come up with a better way to do that. On a personal level, it's basically just your league, which everyone has known about and used as a concept since probably the dawn of time. Fancy terms not really needed at that level. And yeah, like all things, the concept of leagues can be misused by people, including as some excuse to never try anything. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 09:42 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadSexual Market Value involves modeling large scale mating dynamics as an economic marketplace. It is an abstraction and not meant to be perfect, nor a great tool for individual use. At the individual level, there is a lot of idiosyncratic variance, types, etc. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 09:35 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadSMV/RMV is not just about looks. Comparing male SMV directly to female is problematic. But yeah, what a man's SMV rank is now and what it would have been then vs. now, it would change as women's priorities change. But in any given environment, women almost always dated up in SMV rank for that environment. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 09:29 AM |
| 2 | Do men even like women anymore?Hmm...let's imagine there was no sex. No reproduction. The stork delivered them or whatnot. How would the genders associate? How much would they like one another? I mean this is sort of what we are really getting at when we ask if men like women or women like men. Every time men here say that men like women better than the other way around more, women just say this is bullshit: men like our pussies more than we like their dicks. That's not real 'like,' much less 'love'. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 08:41 AM |
| 1 | Dating, investments, homeownership, and financial prioritiesThe stock market may outperform real estate, but you are forgetting leverage. You can't get leverage on your brokerage account anywhere near as great as you can with a low downpayment mortgage. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 08:35 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadIt's not that hard to do in a very rough, but still useful as speculation way. Hence ballpark and pulling out of our asses. And yes, as you get bigger numbers, of course women on average almost always marry up in SMV rank. That is basically the definition of being the more selective sex. And that is OK--women have higher mating costs. Moreover, male variability theory tells us that by a host of key objective measures, men at the bottom will be worse than their female rank equivalents. This plus … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 08:33 AM |
| 5 | Dating, investments, homeownership, and financial prioritiesIn the broad scope, median women are continuing to do better educationally and financially by a wide variety of metrics. And the number of metrics is increasing. Whatever specific issues related to home ownership, this female outperformance is inevitably going to keep manifesting in a variety of outcome metrics. Women are rocking it. Men are dropping out. Of dating. Mating. Competing. Just real life. The weed is ever more potent. The video games keep getting better. The porn is more and more sti… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 08:27 AM |
| – | Passport bros and mail order husbands doing it wrong: The case for marrying up not downYour passport only gives you so much leverage and advantage. Most men choose to spend those points on increasing her appearance and youth. If you spend the points on her money, she's gonna be less viscerally attractive most of the time. Plus, given that the usual reason your passport is an advantage is that your country is richer, points spent on her money often don't go very far, much less allow you to marry up in wealthy. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 08:23 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadSMV and SMV rank are useful analytical tools at the macro scale if you know their limits. If you determined the SMV rank of 100 men, it might be by how many women in your survey group considered them attractive or whatnot. This obviously has a million problems if you up the resolution. But it also has utility if you use the information carefully. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 08:11 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadThere's some quantification behind the ranking, of course. But it is problematic to directly compare raw male to female SMV. So I prefer comparing ranking within one's gender. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 08:05 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadJust to pick some ballpark numbers out of our asses for some rough context, how much further up in SMV RANK (not raw SMV which is hard to quantify) do you think women typically mate? What about in the past? For example, would you say the 50th percentile ranked woman among her gender in terms of SMV typically marries/mates/pairs with a 60th Ranked man? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 07:44 AM |
| 0 | What does the 80/20 rule?Ultimately, you cannot find one quantifiable metric that defines gender relations and attraction. Thus, it is impossible to literally apply 80/20 in some holistic way to female attitudes toward men. I wouldn't even say that it means 20% of men are having 80% of the casual sex, as what is 'casual'? And what is 'of the sex'? Number of male orgasms? Partners? Sex sessions? What? But the Pareto Principle is applicable in a generalized manner to indicate that with respect to women's overall attractio… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 07:26 AM |
| – | Red pill ideologies do not make sense to meThere was no original TRP ideology, really. It was mostly about trying to understand the real truth of gender dynamics to help men do better with women, however the men wanted to define that. Now, from the start there was some implicit prescriptive ideology in terms of what would be a fairer culture. Over time, that has become more explicit. Ignoring the crazies, the best form of this argument is that we are artificially inflating female sexual selectivity (including hypergamy and tendency towar… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 07:21 AM |
| 1 | The way TRP describes female submission makes 0 senseThe dynamic of kin influence over mate choice is very interesting and hasn't been as fully addressed in evo psych as it should be, but that may be changing. Have read some interesting stuff on it recently. No doubt that male relatives had more influence than female, and that male mate choice was less influenced than female. However, kin of both genders had influence, and maters of both genders faced kin-influence constraint. Of course, female sexuality was constrained more than male; and by more… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 07:08 AM |
| 1 | The way TRP describes female submission makes 0 senseI'm sorry. The state of PPD these days is wearing on me. I probably got to into my feels as they say, and was too sensitive. I'll try to reset to something more functional and re-engage and see where that gets us, though I'll understand if you are done. At any rate, we have covered a lot of ground. Will be hard for any of us to cover it all in one post, but I'll choose some things and make a start. I have serious problems with how TRP uses the term 'hypergamy'. I'm not even sure it is the best t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 06:48 AM |
| 0 | Why is confidence such an aphrodisiac?Confidence triggers the heuristics women have that are looking for competence. It's atavistic. Women are also more neurotic and prone to negative emotion, which has advantages for being a mother and possibly because they are weaker than men physically. A confident man seems less prone to negative emotion, thus you get the Yin-Yang gender polarity. The confidence also triggers heuristics looking for a masculine kind of emotional stability that she can seek refuge in during her negative emotion st… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 05:31 AM |
| 1 | Does the Destiny situation prove that redpill is right?bingo | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/01/24 04:17 AM |
| -3 | The way TRP describes female submission makes 0 senseMy patience has run out with you constantly strawmanning me and taking shots, some passive-aggressive and some just verging on aggressive. I'm me, not whomever else you have discussed things with. Whatever they may have said does not apply to me. I've been nothing but polite and respectful with you. You seem incapable of returning the courtesy. It's no way to behave, and no way to learn anything. I'm done. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/01/24 07:30 PM |
| 4 | The way TRP describes female submission makes 0 senseI don't know. I am by no means a progressive or left. I am uncomfortable with the word because my intuition tells me there might be more accurate terms, not for any ideological reasons. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/01/24 03:54 PM |
| 1 | The way TRP describes female submission makes 0 senseWay too many differences in priors with respect to how humans evolved, and their cultures, for us to productively interact I think. Many of these instincts come from before we were human, and then during prehistory, when things do not appear to be at all as you describe. Though the role of kin influence on human mating, both for males and females, and its impact on sexual selection dynamics is a fascinating topic. Clearly, you cannot apply the normal sexual selection mechanics of other animals t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/01/24 03:21 PM |
| 3 | The way TRP describes female submission makes 0 senseThere's no doubt that evolution tends to create feedback loops. I believe the female drive to look up is the primary dynamic here; but men evolved some desire to look down, partly for its own sake but also because they want to satisfy their mate's hypergamy so as to not have her cheat or leave them for a man who does. The reactive drive is generally weaker, as well. Also, this does not mean want a woman who is as low in the hypergamous traits as possible--just below him. And it definitely does n… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/01/24 02:10 PM |
| 0 | Women’s Attraction to Dangerous and Violent MenIt's complex. It's a case of heuristics designed for an evolutionary environment that was drastically different struggling to find decent traction in a completely novel setting. The degree to which is it is a conscious thing is unclear, but it is mostly unconscious. Women today aren't really even consciously thinking 'he can protect me' because in 2024 that is often almost irrelevant. And why the attraction to bad boys? Also hard to say exactly. More heuristics somewhat misfiring. If you imagine… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/01/24 01:29 PM |
| 1 | The way TRP describes female submission makes 0 sense'Submit' is an overly strong word for 2024, yes. It is more suitable to a time when the husband often had to make life or death decisions for the family, or when he was legally responsible for their actions. That doesn't mean he should be a tyrant, only that if he 'puts the foot down' you have to obey and follow, though not necessarily agree. In 2023, where each party can leave a marriage at any time for any reason, technically each partner has a 50% vote and there is no tiebreaker. Divorce is t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/01/24 01:16 PM |
| 2 | Men are infinitely more forgiving towards women flaws yet women keep pretending men and women are on an even field with dating.Females are virtually always the more selective sex in nature. No different for humans. But we are also a unique species in many ways as well. Women are not infinitely more selective than me, just more. How much more selective, and based on what criteria, varies from woman to woman. Culture and environment also play a large role. If there is some fairly intractable baseline genetically-based level of selectivity, we don't really know what that is. We are running a unique experiment in a way: fir… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/01/24 11:24 AM |
| 1 | Where is the incentive for a woman to be submissive?I don't believe in submission or whatever. It's more a matter of say accepting the natural dynamics if you pair hypergamously with a guy who is more dominant and worldly competent. Don't fight him every day just to be difficult; or worse, because some part of you resents his superiority in those areas and/or sees your battle with him as symbolic of all women's fight for 'equality' with all men. All women didn't marry all men; YOU married HIM because of those traits. So accept and enjoy them. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/01/24 05:43 PM |
| 3 | There's a viral phenomenon on social media (mainly tiktok) of porn bot sites stealing videos of women to pretend to be single lonely older women. What do you think of this trend?No idea about the porn bots. Will say that the Wall is totally misunderstood by many on PPD. It just means a somewhat sudden and rapid decline in raw sexual attractiveness. But that is it, on a biological basis. What this means beyond that depends greatly on culture and context. If age-gapped relationships are limited, for example, then post-Wall women aren't facing a lot of competition from pre-Wall women for men their age. So no reason the dating options of post-Wall women must dry up. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/01/24 02:15 PM |
| 1 | Why do some people bend over backwards to find excuses for everything women do?It's accurate or not. The sexism claim is irrelevant and nonsensical here. And I'm not saying Christianity is the final word on morality. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/01/24 01:28 PM |
| 2 | Is it true that a good amount of women want alpha males to have some beta qualities?Maybe. But male sexual desire is robust and indiscriminate enough to sort of override a lot of contradictions. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/01/24 01:02 PM |
| 1 | Contrary to what the Internet and Hollywood makes you belief, why does it seem Cougars are a minority and most women don’t want to date men their age nor younger than themselves?I think we are talking past one another somehow. I'm not denying what you are saying. I'm saying that even with all that, there are more older men who do not act creepy and would normally be seen as attractive by young women than today's women will admit to. Or maybe the politics/ideology has permeated deeply enough these women don't even find them attractive anymore. But I am not saying that a large portion of middle-aged men are attractive at all to 20 year old women. Of course not. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/01/24 12:58 PM |
| 2 | Contrary to what the Internet and Hollywood makes you belief, why does it seem Cougars are a minority and most women don’t want to date men their age nor younger than themselves?Of course most women prefer dudes close to their own age. I'm factoring that in. I just said there is a political aspect that further depresses women's attraction to older men, not that without such ideology modern, free and economically independent women would all prefer much older guys. Men are even MORE concerned about youthful beauty than women are. Men of all ages are most attracted to (in terms of raw sexual attraction) very young women. But men will still admit to finding some older women… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/01/24 12:39 PM |
| 2 | Ladies (non-exclusively), what are your thoughts on population collapse?The rationalization here is insane. We can debate whether the world is currently overpopulated, but leaving that aside, at some point we need replacement TFR. I don't think we understand the TFR collapse. But laying the blame on women or gender dynamics is premature. Could be many things. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/01/24 11:08 AM |
| 1 | Ladies (non-exclusively), what are your thoughts on population collapse?We can argue over whether the Earth is currently overpopulated. But at some point we will need those 2.1 kids per woman. That is basic math. So barring sci-fi solutions, how can we get a replacement birthrate in a way that would make women feel they are being fairly treated? Everything has a price, just a matter of what it is. Give women $1 Million a baby and watch TFR explode. That is too high, but what would be the price? (Not necessarily only in cash, ofc.) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/01/24 11:04 AM |
| 2 | Ladies (non-exclusively), what are your thoughts on population collapse?Motherhood is suicide? Where> How? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/01/24 11:01 AM |
| -4 | Ladies (non-exclusively), what are your thoughts on population collapse?Maintaining a stable replacement birthrate is not necessarily reproductive subjugation of women. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/01/24 10:58 AM |
| – | My hypothesis for the rise in young male sexlessnessI don't think there are enough age-gap relationships to move the needle that much. But depends how you do the stats. Like if you set some arbitrary line and look at say people 20-25, then sure, a lot of 25-30 year old men would be fighting over that same dating pool of 20-25 year old women as some of those relationships would only have 2-3 year gaps. Why you always have to look closely at the stats. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/01/24 10:48 AM |
| 7 | Why do some people bend over backwards to find excuses for everything women do?I do not necessarily agree with the OP's framing. Nor do I have the puzzle solved for how the women are wonderful effect began. But I might have some pieces of the puzzle. Any help assembling them is appreciated. First, one could argue that women ARE more moral than men in terms of Christian morality. This was a departure from classic moral codes focusing on excellence, power and achievement, which likely favored men. This is also part of why Nietzsche called Christianity a religion for slaves a… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/01/24 10:23 AM |
| 1 | Contrary to what the Internet and Hollywood makes you belief, why does it seem Cougars are a minority and most women don’t want to date men their age nor younger than themselves?I get that. But this is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about particularly attractive older men, in a setting that makes them seem more attractive. In the past, lots of young women would have found these men attractive in a an idle, fantasy sort of way. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/01/24 10:01 AM |
| 1 | CMV: Dating for most men gets easier at 30 because they lack the sexual experience to realise , women's standards and desires for a relationship, marriage shift out of necessity.Well I may not share your priors about how many men women can find attractive, in what contexts, and even what the threshold for 'attractive' is. I would say that almost all women in the West, when first married, are in a situation where if the option was sex or no sex with their husband, and somehow there were no negative consequences for not having sex, the women would still want it. Doesn't mean they think their husband is the most arousing man ever. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/01/24 07:19 AM |
| 3 | Why is categorical thinking so prominent in these spaces?Well, never said there weren't downsides. And there are better and worse life scripts to be handed down. We all need one, no matter how smart, to some extent or another. Trying to build everything from scratch in one's life tends to make people insane. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/01/24 02:16 AM |
| 2 | CMV: Dating for most men gets easier at 30 because they lack the sexual experience to realise , women's standards and desires for a relationship, marriage shift out of necessity.familiarity may not breed contempt all the time, but it does eliminate the novelty aspect of sex. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/01/24 02:14 AM |
| 5 | CMV: Dating for most men gets easier at 30 because they lack the sexual experience to realise , women's standards and desires for a relationship, marriage shift out of necessity.This is an interesting take. It is NOT the original AF/BB put forward by Rollo and the like though. Not at all. Alpha is defined as what sexually attracts a woman on a raw arousal level and Beta as what does not. (OFC I don't really agree with this whole framing of things.) I know I also have some issues with your approach, but will take time to think them through. Still, appreciate having something to chew on. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/01/24 02:13 AM |
| 1 | i’ve seen this idea tossed around that women are more susceptible than men to social trends - both genders are very susceptible to trends, let’s stop pretending its one sidedTo be fair, it is pretty hard to do the 'overall' math on something like this. There are a lot of differences. Hard to add them all up. Like if women are more susceptible in a positive way, men are more susceptible in a negative one. Here I mean positive and negative technically. It is clear men need a lot more socialization, especially when young, to be right. Lack of a good upbringing, especially a father figure, impacts men a lot more than women, etc. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/01/24 01:39 AM |
| 2 | i’ve seen this idea tossed around that women are more susceptible than men to social trends - both genders are very susceptible to trends, let’s stop pretending its one sidedWell, when one understands how social science works (and doesn't), this is the best response to someone on Reddit asking for a link to 'prove' something. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/01/24 01:34 AM |
| 1 | i’ve seen this idea tossed around that women are more susceptible than men to social trends - both genders are very susceptible to trends, let’s stop pretending its one sidedGoogle.com | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/01/24 05:54 PM |
| 5 | CMV: Dating for most men gets easier at 30 because they lack the sexual experience to realise , women's standards and desires for a relationship, marriage shift out of necessity.I'm very familiar with Buss. And AF/BB as TRP describes it is not really from Buss. In fact, Rollo is in a major disagreement with Buss over dual mating vs. mate switching. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/01/24 05:48 PM |
| 21 | i’ve seen this idea tossed around that women are more susceptible than men to social trends - both genders are very susceptible to trends, let’s stop pretending its one sidedYeah, people acting as if men are not susceptible are idiots. It is a human thing. That said, nature rarely does equal and women are clearly MORE inclined to this sort of thing. The literature backs this up. The degree and quality of difference is definitely a debatable point, though. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/01/24 05:46 PM |
| 2 | Which historical women =did not survive because= they refused to marry anyone?Discussions evolve. Pay attention or you might miss something. I'm not walking back anything about prehistory. I just didn't feel it was the more productive avenue here because we can just use actually documented history. And you added in all that stuff about feminism and whatever. Not what I said at all. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/01/24 04:52 PM |
| 2 | Which historical women =did not survive because= they refused to marry anyone?Hmm. Maybe the wording was somewhat ambiguous. But my point was that we dont need to think about prehistory. We have documented sources from the last 300 years (and ofc more). | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/01/24 04:44 PM |
| 1 | Which historical women =did not survive because= they refused to marry anyone?There is no retconning. We have countless first person testimony from women of the time. But I'm not saying most women didn't want a man or to get married. I have no idea of the percentages. I'm just saying it happened, and it happened relatively often. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/01/24 04:41 PM |
| 2 | Which historical women =did not survive because= they refused to marry anyone?Well, it is very hard to say how people felt in prehistory. I have no doubt that most women wanted to mate and have children. I imagine some did not. Or they didn't like their options. Or they didn't like who their kin wanted them to marry. At any rate, speculating over prehistory isnt really important to the discussion at hand. We have a ton of documented sources of women choosing to marry when they would have preferred to stay single; but the economic prospects of spinsterhood were just too di… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/01/24 04:30 PM |
| 9 | Which historical women =did not survive because= they refused to marry anyone?There are no goalposts. That is an artifact of a debate structure where you want to 'win' more than get at the truth. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/01/24 03:06 PM |
| 16 | Why is categorical thinking so prominent in these spaces?Most posters aren't really capable of handling deeper and more nuanced investigations. Not necessarily a slight. Not like that kind of intelligence is the most important trait in a person. But there is a reason that cultures and cultural elites usually handed people their basic life script. Average people can't be expected to figure this shit out, especially from scratch. But the democratization of everything has made everyone think they can be a philosopher or theologian. And in some ways moder… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/01/24 02:57 PM |
| 2 | Contrary to popular belief, I think meek, beta guy and dominant woman can create successful marriagesWell, that is why I said 'in theory'. Whether any possible rise in standards gets undone is hard to say. Can't say I really agree with the rest. Seems to simple and extreme a narrative to me. But there is a lot we don't really know right now IMO. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/01/24 02:47 PM |
| 7 | CMV: Dating for most men gets easier at 30 because they lack the sexual experience to realise , women's standards and desires for a relationship, marriage shift out of necessity.Yeah. Raw attractiveness has to impact how rapidly desire goes down. How much is unclear. Men are also programmed for serial monogamy, though there is a polygamous system in there too. It is just the male libido is more straightforward and robust. So the desire doesn't fall as far as women's; moreover, the male attraction floor is more flexible and lower. So when the desire declines, it doesn't go below the threshold where sex is wanted as often. BUT female sexuality is responsive. Women notice … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/01/24 02:40 PM |
| 7 | Which historical women =did not survive because= they refused to marry anyone?Sure. But why engage with the weaker form of the argument? Just want to dunk on people over exploring the real truth? Don't get it. Mind you this is a common problem on PPD for both genders. The Gender Wars are real. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/01/24 02:33 PM |
| 4 | Is it true that a good amount of women want alpha males to have some beta qualities?This is when--as often happens--alpha and beta do more harm than good. But yes, women often want a mix of things. Sometimes that mix is actually MORE purely sexually attractive while also making for a better relationship. Sometimes, women want an impossible combo.: qualities that will increase comfort and connection but that won't decrease desire. How impossible the combination is depends on the woman, ofc. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/01/24 02:27 PM |
| 11 | Which historical women =did not survive because= they refused to marry anyone?Sometimes it is a bit of hyperbole. But even in say the European West of the last 300 years, one of the best places to be a single woman, the loss of lifestyle for not marrying would often have been significant. I do imagine that for most of prehistory it would have been next to impossible not to mate and produce babies. Either they force you or kick you out of the tribe for not contributing, and then you die. Or trade you to some other tribe who forces you. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/01/24 02:23 PM |
| 1 | Contrary to popular belief, I think meek, beta guy and dominant woman can create successful marriagesThere were a lot more reasons than just fear of being Alpha Widowed or the basic instinct to prefer sexual purity behind the old rules. I'm not as doomerish about women's sexual standards and ability to truly desire men as you are. The data is unclear right now. Moreover, to the extent standards have risen--even risen too high--it isn't obvious that this is all just the revealing of intractable and innate female sexual selectivity. The standards could easily be be being artificially inflated; an… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/01/24 02:18 PM |
| – | How do you rank the importance of these traits / factors in a potential partner?The thing is that many women who really do not prioritize looks and sex-related things often do not prioritize lustful sex, either. It is a double edged sword for a man who is not great in these departments, but wants a partner who is very attracted to him. These guys are looking for the rarer woman who prioritizes arousing sex, but doesn't have high standards for looks and other conventionally sexual attractive traits BECAUSE she legitimately can find average guys truly arousing. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/01/24 11:12 AM |
| 8 | Contrary to popular belief, I think meek, beta guy and dominant woman can create successful marriagesPriorities change, but do preferences? I get it. I'm a reasonable guy. But you have to understand male priorities. We want decent raw lust for us, even if we are not the most arousing guy you have ever known or slept with. Also, there's a limit to how much of a wild youth fucking guys who were more arousing then that we can tolerate. Some is OK. Not too much. If those conditions are met, all good. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/01/24 10:39 AM |
| 10 | Contrary to popular belief, I think meek, beta guy and dominant woman can create successful marriagesYeah, well even the meek guys don't want to be stepfather after Alpha Chad gets her sexual youth and even knocks her up. Here's the thing. Just as being exposed to unvarnished male sexuality seems to have traumatized women, men have also been traumatized by exposure to raw female sexuality. Men want to be truly desired for sex. Reasonable men in 2023 can accept that they will not be a girl's first lover. They can accept that she will find other men more purely arousing and even have slept with s… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/01/24 10:33 AM |
| 14 | CMV: Dating for most men gets easier at 30 because they lack the sexual experience to realise , women's standards and desires for a relationship, marriage shift out of necessity.It's more than one question, really. But this is the terrain to discuss and explore. This is what your OP was pointing at. Probably no simple easy answer or model, but lots to be learned and talked about. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/01/24 10:27 AM |
| 67 | CMV: Dating for most men gets easier at 30 because they lack the sexual experience to realise , women's standards and desires for a relationship, marriage shift out of necessity.This is the Alpha Fucks/Beta Bucks dynamic that many in TRP believe in. There is some truth, but I also don't think TRP gets it right. So the underlying question is to what extent women's true preferences and standards actually change. Or are they just coming to terms with the fact that unless they are Stacy they will have to sacrifice a lot of true erotic stimulation for comfort, security and family? This is hard to say. One thing AF/BB gets wrong is that in the modern West, women rarely marry … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/01/24 10:15 AM |
| 2 | Contrary to what the Internet and Hollywood makes you belief, why does it seem Cougars are a minority and most women don’t want to date men their age nor younger than themselves?There's a conscious (and semi-conscious push) to reduce the frequency with which women date and mate with significantly older men. Lot's of reasons. Some good. Some not so good. But the ideological stuff pushes past what we'd get from women just not needing to exchange sex for resources the way they once did. When I went to college, it wasn't uncommon for the girls to have a semi-crush on older professors, even into their 50s. It wasn't the 1960s when female undergrads were fucking profs, but th… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/01/24 10:07 AM |
| 5 | Men protect their relationship from outside opinions more judiciously than women do.it's real, though it drops off with age. but it is also usually generalized and vulgar. and rarely too much when it is about a girl you are really into, as another poster said. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/01/24 07:06 AM |
| 1 | Debate : People dont understand that Money and status makes you GENUINELY more sexually attractive as a Man.I don't see a need for the more complex taxonomy. But yeah, this idea that only male appearance combined with a few key personality traits related to charisma and charm create true, panty dripping lust and everything else is just a woman sacrificing some potential lust in a conscious exchange for resources, status or lifestyle is indeed bullshit. There's some element of truth to it, but no bright line between what creates overall attraction and what creates arousal. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/01/24 10:04 PM |
| 12 | Contrary to what the Internet and Hollywood makes you belief, why does it seem Cougars are a minority and most women don’t want to date men their age nor younger than themselves?Cougars are a rarity. Women's main preference remains the same, which is to be with a man 2-5 years older. But if we are talking just casual dating, or really young women, things change. The main change seems to be desire for or tolerance of bigger age gaps with older men. Even though this has never really been the norm, tolerance for it is down. For a variety of reasons. But there is a political element to it, as well. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/01/24 09:31 PM |
| 1 | I Think There's Room for a Men's Liberation Front - Let's Talk About ItThat may change in time. Right now, a lot of women's groups view public attention and political capital as a zero sum game. So if you address men's issues, you stop addressing female ones to the same extent. And there is some truth to that. But in time the male issues may become so obvious and severe they cannot be ignored. And we may learn to walk and chew gum at the same time, politically. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/01/24 06:26 PM |
| – | Beauty is a lot more objective with similarities than more people are away of. There are no such thing as types.True beauty is the ultimate mystery and seems to be primitive to subjective vs. objective distinctions. But yes, in terms of what women find attractive, there are strong patterns. When men are more differentiated in terms of these objective patterns, and women are exposed to this wider selection of more differentiated men, then attraction to the most attractive men starts to trump idiosyncratic preferences. That said, types are also very real, even in a society like ours where women are exposed … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/01/24 05:28 PM |
| 1 | Do you think young girls need to bring back the 90 day rule, or even more extreme like wait until marriage?Not sure about 90 days, but yeah, waiting more as a regular 'rule' would be better for all. However, not clear that this is how culture works. Rarely is it some grassroots change that is then enforced through normal mechanics of a market system. Usually you need institutions to put constraints on the sexual marketplace. Not sure we do institutions anymore. 50-Male-not married-no kids. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/01/24 05:39 AM |
| 1 | Texting a girl: Keep it short and simple or she will run!PsyHacks is decent on this. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jSL60LSu3kw He has more stuff on adorer vs. adoree if you check out his channel. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/01/24 05:30 AM |
| 1 | Texting a girl: Keep it short and simple or she will run!Tricky, because you don't want this to be an overly conscious or calculated things. That becomes tiring and fake. Mostly, proper partner choice should solve this. Pick someone where it is true. And maybe just kind of develop an unconscious calibration system where in general the man is a bit less demonstrably admiring than the woman is. But then every now and then, in the right moment, he can let her know how crazy he is for her, too. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/01/24 05:21 AM |
| 3 | Texting a girl: Keep it short and simple or she will run!This goes way beyond texting. In general, people don't like other people just because the other person likes us. And often, the more they like us--the bigger the initial gap in 'liking'--the more put off we can be. This applies to men and women. Human nature is fucked up. Of course, there are also tons of exceptions. Someone who is not in a position of plenty will often like someone more in response to being liked more; but it is unclear if this is real liking or desperation. And with men, wanti… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/01/24 05:01 AM |
| 1 | Many people talk about toxic masculinity, but we rarely hear about toxic femininity.come on now. are you trolling? How can you not have heard the various schools of thought on nature vs. nurture when it comes to human behavior? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/01/24 04:47 AM |
| 1 | Rape complainants should not be believed by defaultThis is complex. Legally, no. You can't believes someone without sufficient evidence. The presumption of innocence is also a more than a legal belief; however, on the non-legal side of things, the burden of proof might not be as high. And not assuming the target of allegations is guilty doesn't necessarily mean you have to presume the complainant is not telling the truth. You can kind of be neutral in a certain sense. That said, humans do not have perfect legal of social 'technology'. As we atom… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/01/24 04:46 AM |
| 0 | I Think There's Room for a Men's Liberation Front - Let's Talk About ItThis is related to the whole attitude many women have about men's issues: "Why don't you organize and solve them yourselves like we did our issues?" Of course, that isn't quite how history went exactly. But on a deeper level, I'm not sure the genders should be symmetrical on this. When men really organize as a unit, as 'men' in opposition to 'women', bad things can happen. Men still have absolute power if they decide to take it. There is no higher authority to put them in check. In addition, wha… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/01/24 04:28 AM |
| – | Kin Influence and Sexual SelectionI like that you can look beneath the surface of things to see possibilities most modern people cannot see. And yeah, much to be said for the right kind of kin influence on marriage. Just how to insure women, with their less flexible attraction floors, don't end up traumatized by having to sleep with men they are repulsed by or hate or whatever. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/01/24 02:08 AM |
| 1 | Many people talk about toxic masculinity, but we rarely hear about toxic femininity.a mix, but based in biology | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 07:46 PM |
| 1 | Many people talk about toxic masculinity, but we rarely hear about toxic femininity.The emotions are the same. But there are strong gendered patterns to who has which ones, when, to what extent, etc. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 07:06 PM |
| 1 | Many people talk about toxic masculinity, but we rarely hear about toxic femininity.If taken too literally, real men don't cry is problematic. But it does represent a very important truth, as well. Male emotionality is naturally different from women's in general, but those differences need to be further codified and enforced by socialization in order to maintain critical gender polarity and attraction. You can't raise men to be not sexually attractive to women. It's a bad idea. Plus, there is social utility in having the genders different on this beyond coupling. But yeah, ther… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 05:54 PM |
| 1 | Debating women's preferences won't lead to women changing themNo. If women can truly lower their standards on some things, it would be in their own best interests. Same for any men that say can't be attracted to less than a 9 or 10, etc. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 05:17 PM |
| 2 | No, romance was not a modern inventionlol no thanks. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 03:12 PM |
| – | Debate A Man should be allowed to opt out being a father if he says it enough early in a pregnancy.I agree that there is unfairness in this option, too. But what can you do? Paper abortions create all sorts of problems, too. And perverse incentives. One 'solution' that works is to be careful who you fuck. But it of course also has downsides people don't like, i.e. less casual and novel sex. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 11:47 AM |
| – | Debate A Man should be allowed to opt out being a father if he says it enough early in a pregnancy.Yeah, the man can opt out BEFORE he sticks it in. There is no perfect solution. Society decided to put the needs of kids, and of society, above the needs of men who want to fuck. Every option here has downsides. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 11:23 AM |
| 2 | No, romance was not a modern inventionAnd sometimes that adaptability can include the birth, over time, of some or even a lot of true sexual desire. People vary. But on the whole, I am not sure. I'm just pursuing one possible angle here as I look at the issue from all sides. As I said to another poster, 'romantic love' tends to require a minimum amount of basic sexual attraction. I agree that in societal functioning terms, shifting to romance-based marriage has created certain problems. That said, it is interesting to note that it i… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 11:20 AM |
| 1 | No, romance was not a modern inventionIn such cases, probably. I'm just exploring this question from all sides. I don't have a set view. I'm very reticent to use a modern perspective to casually judge all of history cross so many cultures and environments. But we do know women are more sexually selective than men by nature. We don't know to what extent, in terms of biology. So since romantic love generally requires some sexual attraction, it strikes me as interesting that it is a lot more common to hear men talk about the problem of… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 11:15 AM |
| 2 | Debating women's preferences won't lead to women changing themThe degree of selectivity of women with respect to any of their criteria is subject to cultural and environment influence. So in theory they can ALL change. What people often get wrong is that they think women are not prisoner to culture just like men, and so can just 'think' their standards down like turning the volume up and down on a radio. Doesn't work that way most of the time. But they CAN change if culture and environment change. But how much standards and preferences can change with reas… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 11:11 AM |
| 1 | Many people talk about toxic masculinity, but we rarely hear about toxic femininity.The real issue is we don't have a consensus 'masculine' or 'feminine' ideal to then call 'toxic' if it goes too far. Women decided that any more female-typical behavior that tends to contribute to less hard power in life (as opposed to softer influence) and less material success should be leaned away from. Sure, maybe women are more inclined to be a certain way, but humans are somewhat plastic and can usually do as they must. Thus women today resent holding up anything that contributes to greate… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 11:02 AM |
| 1 | No, romance was not a modern inventionI meant that a kind of maternal or maybe platonic love MIGHT grow because it would be the only option if a woman is not at all attracted to a man, but does come to love him in some way. And of course this is BEST case scenario; withering resentment, disrespect and even hatred might be more common. Naturally, we can only look for patterns. Actual cases would be a mixed bag of course. Some women have grown to truly love and even desire an arranged husband they initially found unattractive on a bas… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 10:42 AM |
| 2 | Debating women's preferences won't lead to women changing themWhat do you want? We know what female mate selection criteria are, though we could haggle over what the weightings are. There are all sorts of possible clues that women have become more selective, including studies showing growing male sexlessness/romantic exclusion. But it is also hard to know if these dynamics are about female standards going up, or male performance going down. It could also be economic. It could be about digital technology giving everyone more entertainment options. It could … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 10:39 AM |
| – | Dick size matters to most people, and men with small penises are better off abstaining from sex to protect themselves from being personally and socially humiliatedYeah, even with culture increasing women's desire for bigger penises, I don't think 5 inches is the cutoff for getting out of the game. Maybe four is closer. The OP is right that at some point you would need to take a very different approach to mating and dating if you have too small a penis. But where that cutoff is remains unclear. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 07:34 AM |
| 2 | No, romance was not a modern inventionI'll leave aside the discussion of what love, romantic love and lust actually are, and how they fit together. But I guess the Devil's Advocate would question whether this ancient approach to marriage was one-sided? Was it essentially about constraining the natural selectivity of female mate choice? Yes, a man can learn to be relatively passionate about a wife he married for the reasons listed because the male attraction floor is lower and more flexible. Could women? How often did this happen? Or… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 06:34 AM |
| 3 | Debating women's preferences won't lead to women changing themI think we can survive whatever criteria and weightings women use to select men, within reason of course. Main issue would just be excessive selectivity and leaving too many men out of the game altogether. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 06:16 AM |
| 3 | Debating women's preferences won't lead to women changing themYeah, the guys that conflate the macro and the micro are wrong. Have to assume that no changes on a societal level will ever come in time to help you out personally. You are on your own. But that doesn't mean society-level issues should not be discussed or debated; just do so without the desperate hope that this will save you personally. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 03:27 AM |
| 3 | Debating women's preferences won't lead to women changing themThe point though is the context for that opinion. Guys have this innate prior that we are supposed to pair up widely as human adults. The required math on that means women can mate up in SMV rank and be more selective, but not by a lot. So our ideas about 'fair' and 'unrealistic' come from that. Women seem to be unsure about the big picture ideal. And without it, there is no real basis for 'fair': just people who are mutually attracted pairing off when they can, and those that can't find a match… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 03:25 AM |
| 6 | Debating women's preferences won't lead to women changing themWell, the whole point is that things could be changing quickly. And that possibly a lot of the pairing up in the past was caused by women being forced to make erotic sacrifices for economic considerations. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 03:13 AM |
| – | Debating women's preferences won't lead to women changing themNo. I'm not talking to individual women in their role as personal people. I'm talking to them in their role as citizens of their polity. Asking them to look at the big picture and ask the big questions, and look for honest answers. IF women have become too selective, it is more than possible that society today somehow amplifies their standards beyond what they need to be. Thus, this process could in theory be reversed. OTOH maybe this is just innate, intractable hardwired selectivity finally fre… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 03:08 AM |
| 7 | Debating women's preferences won't lead to women changing themI'm actually the only one giving the right answer. The honest answer. WOmen are innately more selective than men on a variety of metrics. That is normal. Makes sense. Higher reproductive costs. Evolution. ETc. So it isn't about ONE standard or preference, it is about the degree of selectivity of the whole preference/standards package. It's also possibly that men are objectively worse somehow now, and that this contributes to female standards seeming higher when in fact it is men dropping as much… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 03:02 AM |
| 2 | Debating women's preferences won't lead to women changing themYes, but you are assuming an answer to the underlying question. I am not sure women have bought into the idea that widespread monogamous pairing is an ideal we should aim at. Consciously or subconsciously, many may feel that achieving that was only done by ruthless suppression of female sexuality and innate selectivity. Built on widespread female sexual slavery. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 03:00 AM |
| 3 | Debating women's preferences won't lead to women changing themI'm a nuance guy. Not about extremes. So it's all on a continuum. It isn't that women are all pining after Chad, no. It's about degrees of selectivity. And so you can't see that in one example or by going to WalMart or not. Some of the stats are alarming. Some less so. Hard to know what is going on for sure. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 02:53 AM |
| – | Debating women's preferences won't lead to women changing themPeople are 'free' only so long as the aggregate of their 'freely' made decisions keeps the societies that guarantee their freedoms functional and competitive. So that is the question. As women's material need for an individual man trends toward zero, how selective will women become? What kind of pairing rate will we see? Can society cope with that? I don't know. And I think people on all sides who claim they are certain about their answer are premature. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 02:49 AM |
| 4 | Debating women's preferences won't lead to women changing themThe whining over WHAT women's standards are is a bit of an artifact and secondary. Men could adjust. The real issue is HOW selective women are. What % of men are going to be excluded. If that number is higher than of women, but still reasonable, men will adapt. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 02:26 AM |
| 12 | Debating women's preferences won't lead to women changing themStandards, even true ones, are influenced by culture and environment as well as DNA. We just don't know the mix. But yeah, logical reasoning isn't exactly how culture influences attraction, though. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 02:24 AM |
| – | Debating women's preferences won't lead to women changing themDevil is in the details. HOW selective are women innately? Does that level of selectivity work with the ideal that 85%+ of adults should be paired up in relationships with real desire for one another? These are the big underlying questions. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 02:21 AM |
| – | Debating women's preferences won't lead to women changing themBut whether society needs to a high heterosexual pairing rate is the underlying question. If so, then you get the whole idea of why some standards seem unfair/unrealistic. Based on this presumption that pairing up 85% of the adults is normal and the goal, thus the math on that means neither gender can have preferences that are too high. OTOH some argue that widespread monogamy is male sexual socialism and was always built on the suppression of women's natural selectivity, creating a kind of sexu… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/24 02:20 AM |
| 2 | Should paternity tests be mandatory?The whole point is to flip the default narrative. Instead of it being a signal of distrust to ask for a paternity test, it would be a red flag to tell them to skip it. For the onus to flip, the test has to be so cheap that saving money for a cash-strapped young couple is not a realistic reason to skip it. If it is $29 at CVS, how much more in a hospital? Not sure what price in hospital would be so that saving money wouldn't be a plausible reason to ask to skip it. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/01/24 04:16 PM |
| 0 | Should paternity tests be mandatory?They are still too expensive. At some point, when they are cheaper, they should somehow become the default without actually being mandatory. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/01/24 12:04 PM |
| – | “Hook-up culture“ is mostly a myth, the vast majority of women have fewer than 10 sexual partners in their entire adult lives.This idea is what Louise Perry calls 'sexual disenchantment': the idea that we can strip off 'illusions' that sex is a special interaction and treat it like just any other social function. You should check her out. She's great and all over Youtube. I agree with Louise that we can't disenchant sex. We can to a point, but our instincts rebel at going too far. And things get bad when we try. Sex is nature's original drug. Sexual energy can be constrained and channeled and serve society. Or it can r… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/01/24 02:27 AM |
| – | “Hook-up culture“ is mostly a myth, the vast majority of women have fewer than 10 sexual partners in their entire adult lives.Lack of local community, extended family, religion, etc.--all the aspects of social atomization--destroy the kinds of institutions that were historically used to constrain runaway sexualization. So beyond us just being miserable and lonely, all the tools we used to check and better each other's behavior are weak and rusty. Only the law is left, and it is a horrible and blunt instrument when used alone in such areas. Look at the problems with the 'consent' approach to things. Beyond the hilarity … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/01/24 01:26 AM |
| – | “Hook-up culture“ is mostly a myth, the vast majority of women have fewer than 10 sexual partners in their entire adult lives.I think this is one of those continuum things, again. I think, though, that it is hard to be 'neutral' in the way you hope. If there are no sanctions on sexual activity, then natural hedonistic temptation will pull everyone towards increasing sexual hedonism, including promiscuity. And the media and social narrative will become sex positive to justify the common behavior. All thriving cultures have had to constrain sexual activity to one degree or another. And they were all cognizant of many rea… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/01/24 08:53 PM |
| 2 | To what extent are age gaps in relationships due to the preferences of women vs men?Depends. There's a spectrum of relationship situations these days. The more formal and serious, the more men factor in more things than raw sexual attraction. If women didn't care about male age at all, then sure, for more casual things most men of all ages would be chasing stuff as young the law would allow. But for more serious stuff, men's relationship with female age gets more complex--even with no social encouragement one way or another. But the declining popularity of large age gap relatio… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/01/24 08:45 PM |
| – | I don’t understand men’s arguments for why it’s only okay for them to have high bodycounts.I think there is a good argument for there being some basic gender asymmetry. There are reasons why men would innately care more about female body count than the other way around, though I think many exaggerate the strength and universality of this impulse. I think there is reason to believe that excessive promiscuity, especially in the wrong context, does more harm to women than men, on average. However, that doesn't mean promiscuity is good for men, either. Or that the ideal or standard for th… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/01/24 08:37 PM |
| – | “Hook-up culture“ is mostly a myth, the vast majority of women have fewer than 10 sexual partners in their entire adult lives.This black or white thinking is indeed one of the worst common traits here. I do think that today's society could use more sexual constraint. I also think that there is some fundamental gender asymmetry when it comes to body count. There's more of an instinctive reason for men to dislike high female body count than the other way around; and excessive promiscuity--whatever 'excessive means'--probably hurts women more than men. But that doesn't mean excessive promiscuity and sexual liberation is g… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/01/24 08:27 PM |
| – | “Hook-up culture“ is mostly a myth, the vast majority of women have fewer than 10 sexual partners in their entire adult lives.Very smart perspective. Does sometimes seem like the goalposts on what constitutes 'hook up' culture are moving. It doesn't need to be Roman Orgy culture to be highly promiscuous relative to most historical norms. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/01/24 07:26 PM |
| 1 | Debate The importance off social skills is absolutely underrated in modern men.Yeah, I'm not sure that being a 4 is better than being a better 3. Yours is a fairly moderate argument, though. So it is likely to be accurate more often than the more extreme Black Pill takes. But there really is a lot of variance on this. Strong local, cultural and demographic patterns. Also, it does work differently at different levels of the SMP. Even assuming the male cares to filter for true desire, some diminishing returns on appearance do set in. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/01/24 07:39 PM |
| 9 | “the divine feminine” is a manifestation of toxic femininitySome misuses of ancient ideas about the divine feminine may be manifestations of female typical qualities gone too far. Sure. But most of the actual teachings about the divine feminine also feature a divine masculine; and were generally created by males. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/01/24 06:07 PM |
| 0 | Debate The importance off social skills is absolutely underrated in modern men.I have generally disagreed strongly with most people who call themselves Black Pill when it comes to specifics on any thread. At any rate, to properly assess Black Pill philosophy, I'd need something coherent from them that describes how the SMP works at various tiers. Flat % for how much looks matter can't really describe the more complex reality. Like sure, if you are a 3 male in looks and want to get with a female 8 who truly desires you, then yeah, it is 90% looks in many ways. The amount of… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/01/24 05:45 PM |
| 2 | Why are people so reluctant to accept serial monogamy?The issue is that people are not atomized independent units. It is difficult to embrace a serial monogamy paradigm as ideal until we figure out a serial monogamous social architecture that addresses the eternal issues that lifelong monogamy addresses. Above all, what about the children? How do you create and raise healthy kids? Also, what about old age? Are people in their last serial monogamous relationship gonna know this should be the one they turn into a rest-of-life relationship? Will older… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/01/24 01:47 PM |
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