Female Attraction Standards

TommyBarcelona · 2024-03-07T22:16:46+00:00

They've definately gone up, reality is if your single you better hit the gym

Opening_Tell9388 · 2024-03-07T22:30:46+00:00

Women and men all want to use this biological argument as a scape goat. When a lot of what we are attracted to is social.

I would assume the internet has had a lot of damage to us. You can see this especially with young women on social media. Their self-value plummets because now they are flooded with all these women with professional makeup artists, filters, AI, lighting, photographers, etc. Making women want to look like women who don't even look a certain way. Add on to this the amount of cosmetic surgeries and procedures, skin care routines, etc.

Men being compared to these movie stars with their hair transplants, steroids, personal trainers, top of the top barbers, and private chefs to cook their every meal with a on call dietitian.

Then you have these influencers who come from money who post over the top shit they do for and with each other when most people are one missed paycheck away from absolute economic ruin.

The internet is giving us access to all this filtered content of make-believe world. It is fucking insane. The average perception of beauty has fucking sky rocketed for everyone. This isn't the fault of men or women, yet we demonize each other for shit that really isn't in our control.

GridReXX · 2024-03-07T22:50:44+00:00

I’m going to attempt to answer as methodically as I can because I find that when I say things like “the vibes” folks this side of Reddit beat me up lol.

Sexual Market Value (SMV) for women and men are not identical.

SMV for women in the eyes of men seems to be comprised mostly of: * looks (beauty and physique) * age (youth)

And to a lesser extent how she acts, femininity, etc.

SMV for men in the eyes of women seems to be comprised mostly of: * looks (handsomeness and physique) * how he acts and how he comes across generates ‘gina tingles (charisma/frame/presence/his masculine vibes)

This has always been the case imo. It was only a minority of men back then and only a minority of men now who were above average in looks AND above average in frame/presence/charisma.

The men who seem to be the most dissatisfied with the modern western dating market are the men who probably would have been able to attract a woman via Beta Bux into a relationship in the past or in the East or in socioeconomically devastated regions.

Seems like you want men and women to date at the same Relationship Market Value (RMV).

And I agree. RMV for men has definitely been harder to achieve because the things that traditionally made women overlook his lower SMV rating was his higher RMV rating. His ability to provide and protect and such was compelling for a relationship. And sometimes if he was very competent at this it would affect how she perceived how he “acts” aka she would respect/admire him more and this would actually positively feedback loop into increasing his SMV. Yay!

Nowadays there’s less western women who need a man for providership and protection. This has plummeted men’s traditionally high RMV. So you have less women willing to consider a man for a relationship if off bat he’s lacking in the SMV arena.

TLDR: But again, it was always only a minority of men who were able to strike that balance of physically and behaviorally attractive traits that resulted in an above average SMV of 6/7+.

fiftypoundpuppy · 2024-03-07T22:14:57+00:00

If we can change what we're attracted to, then conversion therapy would work.

As it stands, one only needs to go to the post office, or grocery store, or anywhere where the general public has to go to to plainly and clearly see average and below-average looking women partnered with average and below average looking men all the time. Most women aren't holding out for a Henry Cavill doppelganger. Men just think any women who want to be sexually attracted to their partners de facto have unreasonable standards, because they don't think it's reasonable that women should be sexually attracted to our partners at all. They think women's sexual attraction to our partners is irrelevant and superfluous, which is why they are so quick to call us shallow and make post after post admonishing us for "gina tingles" and berating us to "lower our looks standards."

Meanwhile, they'd never accept people telling them they should partner with women who don't make their dicks hard.

Good_Result2787 · 2024-03-07T22:14:16+00:00

I don't really see how "lowering standards" can really mean anything other than "get with someone you don't find attractive." And I say that as a guy and with standards. My standards are partially who I can pull (the "league" if we really must label it) and partially it is the absolute lowest I would go in terms of what I find personally attractive.

If I lowered my standards, I'd be getting with someone with whom I'm not attracted to, no? That seems like something that would have a foundation of desperation that builds a house of resentment. Doesn't seem like I'd make a good partner for that person.

Ultimately people have standards and they either successful get with the ones who meet them or they end up alone. I won't say nothing has significantly changed, but that is the way of things. Some people are alone in this regard. We just hear about it more now.

Suspicious_Glove7365 · 2024-03-07T22:55:41+00:00

I definitely think that social media and porn has inflated our individual ideas enormously for both sides. As in, women see other photoshopped women online all the time and think, “How do I look like that?” And men look at other unrealistic standards of men online and think, “If I don’t like that, I’m unattractive.” We all have personally made the bar higher for ourselves, and therefore each other. In real life, I think this manifests mostly as people feeling super insecure all the time.

omelettekingg · 2024-03-07T22:39:07+00:00

Everything boils down to biology and the very different roles women and men play in reproduction. Mens reproductive strategy selects for quantity over quality because men don’t get pregnant. Sex is a low risk high reward activity for them. Women’s reproductive ploy is that of quality rather than quantity because we can get pregnant. Making sex a high risk typically low reward activity for them. Women are supposed to be the pickier sex. Despite men’s moaning about women not being more sexually receptive to them, alarm bells also go off when encountering a woman as sexually indiscriminate as themselves because she’s not supposed to be.

Male peacocks are the pretty ones, not the females. Male lions with the biggest manes get to rule a pride, while the female lions are rather plain looking in comparison. Thats because the female sex is naturally at a biological advantage in terms of desirability. You could say that all women are biological sixes. This makes men mad, but that’s nature for ya. It’s the males of the species that need to prove their physical fitness to the females, not vice versa.

In no other species but humans do the majority of males get to partner up and pass on their genes. The same was true for most of human history, estimates are that as little as %30 of our male ancestors reproducing. Men worked very very hard to take hold of reproduction and gain the upper hand. This has had disastrous consequences that will only continue to worsen as the male loneliness “epidemic” continues to grow. Evolution, survival of the fittest, all requires female sexual selection. Men will never be as desirable to women as they hope to be unless they somehow alter nature itself and take on the burden of pregnancy. Until then, women will rightfully continue to be more sexually selective.

SecondEldenLord · 2024-03-08T08:20:44+00:00

Yes, they had gone up super high, and yes they can be changed by the media. Look around you and notice how men's standards changed. Do you think men were attracted to fat women in 80s and 90s? No, and nowadays men are calling fat women attractive and thick, and that is all thanks to culture, media, feminism and body positivity. But you don't see anything like this that promotes dating short men, or fat men or bald men.

ICU8a8 · 2024-03-08T01:19:14+00:00

Interesting. So you are asking, are women’s standards are artificially inflated today? Or were they artificially deflated in the past?

MistyMaisel · 2024-03-08T04:21:13+00:00

I think it's quite obvious women took one for the team for most of history. Except that makes it seems like a choice which it fundamentally was not. They aren't anymore. That's a good thing.

It does however mean that unlike when men were just buying women with goats or a handshake, or women had to marry to have any real and legitimate future...yeah, Boris the Bumble has to do more than have a paycheck and the pretense of protecting to get a woman.

2. I think it seems to be true that on top of this, the overall quality of an awful lot of men has taken a bit of a nose dive. They'll complain they can't get a woman like their grandfather, but they also can't protect, provide, or do manly shit like him. Even if we returned to some former glory system, most of these men wouldn't pass the test of said former traditional system. Even interpersonally, their respect for women is low, they degrade them and themselves through tons of pornography, they aren't socially as competent or capable, and emotionally so many of them are wrecks. The best of them go to the gym to get hot.

3. I think femininity and associated characteristics and patterns has been degraded and nearly destroyed. And that's a big contributing factor to so much of this dynamic issue. I think there's a lot of truth to saying women tend to act like men. The real counter is: of course they do. Who wants to be a woman? A disrespected sex and domestic slave constantly told their contributions to the human experiment are cute, but ultimately negligible? Reliant on a flawed at best man who takes you for granted while you run and maintain his very existence. And that's the best case very often, more likely you'll be abused, assaulted, and even raped because kindness is weakness and its a dog eat dog world. Women got the message, kill or be killed. And the problem is, it turns out, women are pretty fucking good at being masculine when it comes down to it. Especially since we still manage to apply certain powerful elements of femininity like strength in numbers and harmonizing for the greater good. It's not hard to be cutthroat especially when the other option is having your throat cut. Of course men want us to go back, y'all aren't good at being feminine and on an average basis, you lack the motivation for being good at masculine in comparison to women.

With all that said, do I really think our standards have changed in some drastic way? Not really especially if compared with our same age male counterpart. I think women always have liked what we've liked. The only change is in us feeling allowed to pursue it and how we're willing to pursue it.

If you think about it in the context of number 3. Compromising is a feminine trait. Valuing everyone's contribution is a feminine trait. Relentless pursuit of a perfect ideal no matter the cost or willingness to die on that hill...sounds pretty fucking masculine to my ears.

Frankly, I think men should be thankful women haven't started buying them with goats and mutilating them for science. Feminine softness dies hard.

No, but really, the solution to this is to once again value, respect, and hold in high regard femininity. And not to treat it as some second fiddle to masculinity that is ultimately boring. It has to be genuinely recognized as a force of nature and the components that make it up as cool, interesting, adventurous, worthy of pursuit, and vital.

But, I don't think that can actually happen because I think masculinity as it has often been practiced cannot stand for that.

MikeArrow · 2024-03-07T22:20:49+00:00

I don't think there's anything wrong with me. I get that I'm overweight, and I understand that's a barrier, but I don't see a particularly compelling reason why I should have had so little attention from women for my whole life basically. Even back when I was thin I got nothing. Am I truly that hideous? Maybe, but somehow I don't believe it.

I wouldn't want someone to artificially lower their standards to be with me, but I do question why they're so impossibly high in the first place? And especially because they turn around and say "the bar is in hell" like it should be easy to reach. But it's not.

LowCreddit · 2024-03-07T22:26:37+00:00

There are several factors:

Testosterone has dropped for both sexes. - This is the primary sex drive hormone. Women who transition to men become insanely horny and have standards comparable to men.
Hormonal birth control fucks with women's attraction. - There are many studies about the different effects of birth control on female attraction. None of them that I know of have specifically found a tie between HBC and sex drive, but I wouldn't be surprised.
Denser living is known to cause female animals to decrease weaning, kill their children, and fight males. - You can look into the rat utopia experiments if you want to see the details. There is no question of this effect.
Third spaces are dying. - People have stopped physically being anywhere outside of home and work. People don't meet and don't make friends and don't make partners. Female attraction is highly dependent on physical interactions.

I could make the list go on forever, but it is no accident that women are becoming more and more asexual every generation. This is all on top of the fact that women have always been picky.

Objective_Ad_6265 · 2024-03-07T23:06:19+00:00

I think nothing changed, just in the past and in some cultures in present women were forced to marry men they didn't even like. Forcing could be direct or indirect (social pressure, inadequate work oportunities), they had to marry to have acceptable lifestyle but they didn't like their husbands. Of course, some were lucky but mostly not.

wheartv · 2024-03-07T23:09:53+00:00

It’s that marriage and pair bonding and monogamy were socially enforced inventions that made sense on many levels

It’s no longer needed so women are acting on primal urges more like before monogamy drastically improved our standard of living

The average feminist probably can’t even name a reason that monogamy became a thing across so many cultures

WeTheNinjas · 2024-03-07T22:25:35+00:00

In the same way that men can simultaneously be attracted to female celebrities and be happily married to a mid-tier or even below average female, women should be able to do the same. Of course it depends on where you’re at on the scale but a female 4 shouldn’t feel entitled to a male 6

Female attraction standards has 100% gone up with time because of social media, dating apps and the instant dopamine hits they provide

SlowEffective8146 · 2024-03-08T00:14:26+00:00

Fucking random Tinder/Insta/Hinge guys that are out of your league absolutely does skew a woman's standards
Women also obsessively watch women more attractive than themselves having toxic standards and then emulate those (from tiktok)
A lot of men believe they're 5s when they're below average

SamanthaNicola · 2024-03-08T13:29:07+00:00

I don't know if it's standards that's changed more like how we find people. When I was single the men I dated were in my social circle or people I met out and about in my town and would usually start with just chatting and getting to know the person then going out on a date, or would be someone you had known for a while. Whereas now it's OLD and social media and it can be anyone in a large radius, and you skip the having initial getting to know you phase in a way, like when you met someone at a bar and just started chatting there was an element of this conversation feels easy or there's alot in common here or we click or feel a spark. Now you are matching without any of that so I think we all (men and women) spend too much time analysing what traits we think would give us that to decide who to match with and as alot of OLD alot of this has come down to looks, job, education. I hope that makes sense feel like I have rambled a bit

Southern_Fall983 · 2024-03-08T16:33:05+00:00

Men date down, women date up is all you need to know about the situation. There is no equal value exchange until it’s time to settle down, and even then they are typically miserable anyway

YveisGrey · 2024-03-07T23:07:37+00:00

Competition is only increased because more and more people seek short term mates. When seeking long term mates both men and women lower their standards in certain departments. For women it’s probably the looks department for men it’s probably the sexual department. Women are less inclined to casual sex the ones who are into it will usually choose very attractive men or they have to be bought at a price. On the flip side men who are very attractive are also rare so are rich men. So if men are looking for quick freaky sex and women are looking for very attractive guys or rich guys to have the quick freaky sex with, than yea less people will couple up overall as most won’t be able to find that or compete for that.

Sometimes men in these spaces make it sound like women’s standards are the main or only issue. But most men these days expect sex pretty early on, it’s pretty standard to start a relationship as fwbs like sex has to be immediately on the table for a relationship to even happen. If a woman has to have sex right off the bat of course the guy is going to have to be really hot or rich or something exceptional compared to herself. It’s never been the case that women were that easily sexually available to average men. The difference is in the past sex wasn’t immediately on the table so women and men could get to know each other and love each other for real.

operation-spot · 2024-03-08T01:09:42+00:00

I think men are prone to believe that a woman is his looksmatch simply because he likes her and has to justify that attraction. He knows good and well that him being a skinny white man does not mean he is on the level of a skinny white woman. She is at the peak attractiveness for her gender and he is not. Men can’t deal with that difference so it’s easier to say women’s value is inflated than it is to admit that his value is not even on the same scale.

Green-Quantity1032 · 2024-03-07T22:41:39+00:00

Standards for relationships didn't* meaningfully go up, standards for casual sex were always high and probably went up cuz Tinder adds efficiency (women would just fuck whoever was hottest around them in their social circle or local club/bar, now they can scroll through the hottest guys in 10miles radius).

*at least not since vast majority of women are allowed to work

SadCupcake7000 · 2024-03-08T00:34:41+00:00

I think women always had this standards, the difference is that now we can actually choose partners we are attracted to, there are no more arranged marriages and women don't need men for money/survival anymore like before.

I think most women of the past didn't find their partners attractive but they needed them for their survival.

Before society we know today, most women probably choose their partners for their physical strength and other physical characteristics that were considerated attractive and the ability to provide for them, so most of men of that time probably were attractive for us today, but that changed when society started.

Humans started to form groups and women stopped choosing men for their physical strength, height and attractivenes and started to choose them for their social status, so unattractive males started to reproduce much more often than before and because of this a lot of unattractive men started to pass their genes forward to this day, and now women don't need men for money and survival anymore so they just choose the best male available because there are no incentive anymore to settle down with unattractive males.

I think that the average women remain attractive to this day for most men because males never stopped choosing their wives for other motives than appearance, so the most beautiful women of the past passed their genes forward and women considerated ugly simply didn't reproduced.

Because of this now the average male is not attractive to most women on general but the average women is attractive to most men because women stopped choosing their partners for physical attractiveness on the past and started to choose them with base on how much they could provide or social status but men never stopped choosing their partners for any other motives than physical attractiveness. A lot of women were sold by their family's in the past to men so they could marry then and this still happens on shitty countries.

Mental_Leek_2806 · 2024-03-08T00:12:19+00:00

Posts like this throw me for a loop. I can't think of a single guy friend or acquaintance who is unable to get attention from looksmatch girls and girls they're attracted to. I guess the caveat is my circles are educated, confident, healthy, and make some level of effort with their appearance (but honestly none of us are 8+). Some of the guys I know wouldn't do so well on dating apps for reasons like height (ex. 5'7" men), but they know that and seriously pull irl. I've also seen the guys that my female friends have gone for (both casually and dating), and height standards are one of the fastest things to go out the door especially if they met irl. Income and weight/health tend to the next ignored criteria (every woman I know can easily support themselves).

wtknight · 2024-03-08T00:40:23+00:00

Men need to put in work to be attractive to women. A lot of men either don't know how to do this, or don't care enough to do it.

TRTGymBro · 2024-03-08T01:26:02+00:00

You are looking at female attraction criteria through your male perspective. So you are hyper focused on looks and on stuff like career (which is the typical social programming).

None of these things are the true standards. What do women require? I will tell you. A man who is not afraid of them. Not afraid to express his interest, be direct, be honest. Be their prince. Count on the fingers of one hand how many men you know who embody these traits. It's perfectly normal if you come up with 0.

Excellent_Tank5672 · 2024-03-07T22:52:19+00:00

For those who say you can't change what you're attracted to, I disagree. The fitter I've gotten, the less women I find attractive. I used to occasionally have sex with or even date overweight women. Now I find the vast majority of them to be repulsive.

moresleepy1 · 2024-03-07T22:53:04+00:00

Even if women on mass have higher standards than they should its a mute point. Women

would have to want to change that and they don't so men just have to adjust their behavior.

Either you become the man women are interested in or you pay for sex they way people have

been doing forever.

Jaded_Interaction162 · 2024-03-07T22:56:55+00:00

Where I grew up most people started dating at age 16 and kept on getting into new relationships after the previous one ended. The guys who struggled had obvious problems in terms of both looks and behavioral traits.

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captainhowdy82 · 2024-03-08T02:38:01+00:00

I feel like when we’re talking about these women who go after men who look like models or athletes or something, we’re taking about a subset of women overall. Not everyone’s social circle involves like scoping out bodies at the gym or trying to look hot at a club or whatever the fuck these people are doing. And it’s a subset of men involved, too. There’s just like a “scene.” A subculture of people who think being some sort of greased up, plastic, hard body who drives a fancy car is like super cool and desirable. I do NOT get it, personally. I don’t get attracted to men in that group. And I wouldn’t want to have to buy into the corresponding plastic, hard body, make-up plastered women’s culture. I don’t want to live like that. Let’s skip the gym and hang out at home instead, you know? I wanna be with one of those guys. And I think there’s a really big group of women who feel like I do.

waffleznstuff30 · 2024-03-08T13:39:12+00:00

I don't think they have gone up so astronomically high. I think most women (there are some that probably are delusional) but most women are just looking for someone they are at base level attracted to. This can be in social groups maybe dating apps when out doing something. These don't even have to male models or rich famous high status men. Just a man you find attractive which is up to the beholder.

I think what's happening is men are not used to be chosen. Women through out years were chosen and we had to take what we can get because of societal pressures and for mobility in society. Now that we have agency in our dating lives we don't need a man to survive. We can work, own a home, have a credit card and do things for ourselves we can actually choose who we WANT to be with not NEED to be with.

So if you are painfully average and uninteresting. You will likely struggle in dating. Not because you are a nice guy but why should someone want to be with you?

Soul_vaccine · 2024-03-08T16:34:33+00:00

They work fine for me. But I do feel bad for guys who aren’t handsome, tall, white, privileged.

Psyteratops · 2024-03-07T22:36:39+00:00

The majority of people are pairing with people with similar SMVs for long term relationships imo. Women’s standards haven’t gone up necessarily but the average personality of the men around them has suffered along with a variety of other factors from economics to mental health. This means that since you can get casual sex at a swipe that these men bringing very little to the table.

This is exacerbated by the existence of echo chambers for these men that actively lower their SMVs by encouraging misogyny and fostering a misanthropic world view built on resentment.

Women will not lower their standards and there’s no real fix for it that doesn’t put the main impetus on men.

A lot of this comes down to classical masculinity not really being tenable anymore and the tendency of alienated men to think the answer to their woes is to pursue a masculinity they don’t fit into.

sublimemongrel · 2024-03-08T03:08:30+00:00

Women already typically date men at their level or below of attractiveness so this whole premise is inaccurate

RelativeYak7 · 2024-03-07T22:27:29+00:00

My unpopular opinion is that a lot of women prefer medium ugly men bc it's safer to be in a relationship with such a dude.

Late-Insect-6852 · 2024-03-07T22:37:17+00:00

What you and other dudes here fail to understand is that the average woman and average man will never be equal in terms of SMV.

Men primarily value youth, beauty, fertility, and sex appeal in women so an average female in her 20’s is inherently more valuable than an average male in their 20’s regardless if they are both technically “looksmatched”.

Female selectively is at its highest due to feminism and inclusion of women in the work force. When they aren’t relying on men to eat and have a roof over their head, there’s quite literally 0 incentive for them to not be picky with who they sleep with.

The only way to truly remedy this is to return to monke and peel back some amendments but that isn’t realistic or humane so I recommend the other men here to either adapt, accept, or start finding some copes.

Siliconmage76 · 2024-03-07T23:25:30+00:00

I believe most of the complaining is by mediocre men who are upset that modern technology has given even mediocre women a good shot at a better than mediocre man so they are choosing to stay single longer rather than settle for mediocrity.

Safinated · 2024-03-08T00:27:57+00:00

It’s not about looks. It’s about being partners and coparents

But if you’re just looking for short term sex…personality is way more effective, and difficult to calibrate

Legitimate_Type_1324 · 2024-03-08T04:57:02+00:00

It's pointless to discuss. The standards are what they are. Either meet them or stop complaining.

harmonica2 · 2024-03-07T22:19:12+00:00

A lot of men lower their standards to what the dating market has to offer, but is it much easier for men to do this compared to women?

FreitasAlan · 2024-03-07T22:26:24+00:00

People will end up with people in their own “SVM” sooner or later. The main difference nowadays is the amount of trauma from their polygamous past both parties will take to this final ultimate long term relationship which should be the one where effort is invested. And also the social consequences of that.

Fantastic-Age-5598 · 2024-03-07T22:52:21+00:00

Thus when a guy says women should lower their standards to increase the pairing rates, or pair with men of roughly equivalent SMV rank, these women read this as asking women to take it for team human (again) and fuck guys they find unattractive, or who are inherently unattractive, or both.

Some women standards do need to be more realistic.

For example, if a woman wants a man who is handsome, tall, makes 6 figures, then she'd have to put herself around men who fit that criteria. Like, she'd literally would have to move somewhere where the demographics consist of this. Want him to be 6' tall on top of that? Then she needs to move or put herself in a place where the average height is tall, on top of where 6 figures is common.

He may look good, smell good, make good money, and do well for himself, but......he may be crazy or he may not be loyal or he may be justing using you to cover up his true identity(being D-low) or he may be argumentative or annoying or whatever else it is that may deter you from staying with him. Good-looking and wealthy men need to be vetted too.

Most women don't have high standards. So that shouldn't worry you unless you're only going after women who do. Than that's your problem that you need to work on

izoldetales · 2024-03-08T00:08:13+00:00

So you're telling me that women lied to men through history by saying " women's attraction grew by treatment and not by looks " . And men really believed it and thought female attraction is complicated 😂😂😂😂

Also wouldn't people saying " attraction isn't negotiable " be justifying why attractive men pump and dump, like you like me cause I'm hot so why should I be nice to you?! Or owe you a " princess treatment " or " after care " .

Most post prove that people actually change their beliefs to accommodate women. Believe every men who say " attraction isn't negotiable " is automatically seen as " SHALLOW" so when people gonna call out women's bad behaviours .

metasekvoia · 2024-03-08T11:35:17+00:00

What do you mean by "artificially inflated"? Do we have artificially inflated standards of literacy, hygiene and grooming etc. in our modern society? Or maybe men have artificially inflated expectations of mutual desire and enthusiastic sex in marriage?

Marah_244 · 2024-03-09T12:28:42+00:00

It is pretty simple. There is no specific rule or standard. If you like someone you will be more than happy to have a intimate connection with him/her

obviousredflag · 2024-03-10T17:02:43+00:00

I think what is mostly overlooked is that people here focus on online dating exclusively but don't factor in the online dating demographic, the sex ratio and the goals of online dating. They take swiping results of online dating as a measure of female attraction standards, pickyness, etc., while that is influenced by the aforementioned factors.

(1) Demographic: who is on dating apps? Predominantly men who have this as their only tool in dating, as they, for various reasons, are unable to get dates in real life. Many of those reason make them undesirable by women. Lack of confidence, lack of physical appeal, lack of social skills, lack of friends, etc. Which in turn leads to undesirable profiles, bad dates, bad conersations, etc. As online dating is several years old by now, who remains on dating apps? The men who prepetually stay single and unsuccessful with women. The less desirable men accumulate on the apps over the years and they likely are on multiple apps. The less successful, the wider the net.

So, men on online dating apps are not representative of the general public, it's a subsample of the population that has a drastic overabundance of men of lower desirability. So it's absolutely normal and fitting that women rate men on dating apps as way less attractive and "below average" for the most part.

(2) Sex ratio: Different apps may have slight variations of that, but overall it's about 1:2.5 or 1:3 women to men. So even when all women on online dating would pair off into a relationship with their looksmatch, about 66% of men would be unable to ever find a girlfriend on the dating apps. This also directly feed into the 20:80 rule. Because ~20% of men is roughly equal amounts to ~80% of women.

Supply and demand regulates what women swipe on.

(3) Goals of using online dating: About half of Tinder users are in a relationship. About half of Tinder users are not looking to date but just fool around on the app, get validation, check their market value, or spy on friends, promote their social media, etc. There is no way one can use swiping data to infern who is found attractive or how picky someone is. Most matches don't result in conversations or if they do, they end after 2 exchanges. Because nobody had an intention to put in effort and meet the other person. it's way more about "i want to match someone and be entertained and get dopamine from being desired". I regularly match women i am not interested age wise, just for the kicks of dopamine and excitement, a change of not matching with the hotties i want to match.

Then there is this large number of people who just look for casual sex. We know that men have very few prerequisites for women to consider casual sex with them and women require a high amount of prerequisites to be fulfilled to consider casual sex. This is biology and not recently developed "standards". If anything, contraception made it so women could be open to a wider range of possible men for casual sex, as there was no cost attached to bad decisions. So, OF COURSE men swipe on more women for casual sex and women only swipe on the very most desirable men for casual sex, as they are guaranteed a match with the not so picky men. Why would anyone who already wants few instances of casual sex and is offered the top of the top on a silver platter choose anything else? There isn't even a competition for those top men, because as i showed in (2), there are just so many men that the top can satisfy the few women who want casual sex.

Don't take online dating as a measure of female pickyness for relationship goals. Scratch casual sex off of your list to get from online dating, when you are not already getting it and are competitive. It is a very twisted market dominted by casual sex, which has it's own biological twisted market dynamic. Barely anyone gets into relationships from online dating, compared to the alternative methods of meeting a partner. Yet, somewho, this totally confounded data that doesn't even make up large parts of newly formed relationships is used to gauge female pickyness for relationships and casual sex, AND how much the "average guys" suffers. The average guy on Tinder is not the average guy of the population. The average guy of a population is in a happy relationship with plenty of sex.

DarayRaven · 2024-03-07T22:20:02+00:00

Thus, in theory women could truly lower these standards, pair with guys of roughly equivalent SMV rank, AND find these guys actually attractive.

That's great wishful thinking and all but hypergamy will never want it's equal nor equivalent

If she's a 6 SMV wise, automatically the perception is going after guys who are 7s

Honestly l wish guys understood they can't re-engineer millions of years of evolution, it's always been this way

Women are always gonna be this selective no matter how much you change the environment

Thankfully l'm not gonna tell guys to how to go about solving their reproductive problem like this tradcons and everyone else who always wanna say

"if she's hypergamous then she's not the one"

Or

"just be yourself and take a shower"

Pola_Lita · 2024-03-07T23:30:48+00:00

A lot of women feel that either nothing has meaningfully changed in terms of female sexual selectivity, or if it has, it is just the manifestation of innate, primarily biologically determined female standards that were always there, but men suppressed for their own benefit. Some combine this with the belief that today's men are objectively less attractive than normal in various ways. Thus when a guy says women should lower their standards to increase the pairing rates, or pair with men of roughly equivalent SMV rank, these women read this as asking women to take it for team human (again) and fuck guys they find unattractive, or who are inherently unattractive, or both.

This. Exactly this and no deviation.

Thank you for saying it!

HorrorBrilliant1713 · 2024-03-07T22:46:05+00:00

As if men’s standards aren’t through the roof with loads of men suffering from prn addictions

Prudent-Conflict-557 · 2024-03-08T13:15:07+00:00

I feel like we need to acknowledge that what’s attractive changes constantly. There was a period in history where fat people were considered the most attractive. There was a period in history where women went out of their way to give themselves huge foreheads. There was a period in history where men wore heels. It’s all ever changing. Even just in our lifetimes.. remember when heroin chic and flat chests were the thing for women? And then somehow we got to the Kardashians. Like… just chill out.

It’s super weird to me to be upset that people aren’t getting with people they aren’t attracted to. Following your logic.. go find a “femcel” who’s desperate for love. It’s easy, right? Attraction is irrelevant.. for the good of humanity..

Title	Female Attraction Standards
Author	WilliamWyattD
Upvotes	33
Comments	601
Date	March 7, 2024 10:05 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1b96wg8/female_attraction_standards/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/female-attraction-standards.1426413 https://theredarchive.com/post/1426413

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