Are men making their best offer?

macone235 · 2023-08-15T00:24:18+00:00

How can you sit there and blame men when 95% of women won't date a man shorter than them?

Women do not hand out participation trophies. You don't get a partner for "trying your best", and one of the best things this sub could do is to stop regurgitating that nonsense. You get a partner by beating out other men through intrasexual competition. If men are giving up, it's because they are no longer capable of competing.

Men have mostly adapted to women's "so-called desires", and it's only made them less attractive.

IronDBZ · 2023-08-14T23:39:19+00:00

Because it is like the government artificially interceding in the middle of a labor or business negotiation and declaring that one side has made the best offer it can and now the other must compromise to match it.

That's literally what happens though.

The state generally backs up private interests and strong arms the workers. They work mostly to avoid strikes and economic disruption, but the state is largely made up of people ideologically aligned* to the side of private industry. It's incredibly biased and it's been the role of the government for what's coming on 200 years to be the backup of private capital.

Very bad comparison for gender politics.

Women and men are more like infighting workers than true opposition to one another.

We're not supposed to be fighting each other, resenting one another, demonizing, etc. That's all symptoms of dysfunction.

Our default is cooperation and care. We lose sight of that because of extant circumstances but they are not the end all be all of how men and women interact.

purplish_possum · 2023-08-15T00:35:52+00:00

Men need to stop trying to buy women's affections and top saving women from the consequences of poor life choices. Basically men need to be more selfish and more self-centered. Men need to look after their own self-interest first and foremost. Women are strong and independent (just ask them -- they'll tell you). They don't need no man -- they can take care of themselves. I'm all for taking women's word on this.

princedune · 2023-08-15T00:14:03+00:00

What's even left to take from us?

xxxMisogenes · 2023-08-15T01:38:47+00:00

You've got it backwards, women are a risk to man's prosperity so men won't marry them.

MyLastBestChance · 2023-08-15T02:46:19+00:00

For thousands of years, men were in control. They controlled the money, their wives, their children. Women had to appeal to men by being attractive helpmeets and were expected to submit their husbands wishes in all things.

In the western world (and spreading), that’s no longer the world that we live in. Women are gaining ground. We are approaching parity.

It turns out that when women get to choose, we select for some of the same characteristics that men have historically selected for. Obviously it’s not a total reversal. Most women aren’t looking for a submissive man, but we are looking for an attractive helpmeet. We are looking to meet in the middle as opposed to “leading” or being “led”. We are looking for a partner who will willingly share ALL of the responsibilities of finance, family and home.

Gender roles are dissolving but for most people it’s a confusing transition and we are all struggling to navigate it.

Here’s the thing, a lot of men are having trouble accepting that women aren’t inherently and biologically destined to be the person who submits, cooks, cleans, parents, nurtures, organizes and creates the home while the man goes to work and sometimes “helps”. This isn’t “chore play”, this is about actually sharing responsibility for a shared life.

The age of Father Knows Best where a man works 40 hours a week and then his job is over and he comes home to a hot dinner, his slippers and martini and his adoring family waiting by the door to greet him was never really a thing and certainly isn’t a thing now and that’s a bitter pill to swallow for some.

Men don’t need to “provide and protect” any more, they need to contribute and cooperate and collaborate. For some it’s just a bridge too far for now.

MarauderSlayer44 · 2023-08-15T05:09:25+00:00

lol no. But that also requires an actual investment into men for our own sake of “catching up” and the best we’ve gotten is “adapt or die alone” and that is not a real good faith attempt.

kkkan2020 · 2023-08-14T23:36:33+00:00

You dam well know that what the men offer today isn't the best. If you have to ask this question. But what else can men offer? On the books there is nothing a man can do now that a woman can't do in the western world. So if the women can get better education, job opportunities, legal protection, political lobbying...what else can men offer except for the soft stuff like emotional support or helping with all domestic chores and anticipating all of her needs?

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wtknight · 2023-08-15T02:22:16+00:00

I think that many men are making the best offers that they think that they can make. Women are very picky, though, and I'm not sure that many men are sure about the improvements that they should be making. This isn't blaming women, because they have a biological reason to be choosy. I just think that the issue is the lack of awareness of many men towards what makes them attractive to women. Perhaps it's because there are not enough fathers teaching their sons the skills and behaviors needed that will attract women.

Workaholiconew · 2023-08-15T16:07:52+00:00

Are men making their best offer?

Men have adapted somewhat, but have men really made all the adaptations they can?

Yes. On average in Brazil, men already spend around 20-30% of their income, time, energy and overall resources into obtaining sexual services from women... (not partner or gfs or wives, sexual services from women at all)

And if I am able to guess, I would say it is not hard for American men to spend 50-70% of said resources in their women who are CONSIDERABLY more uncompromising, uncooperative, fat and ugly.

Asking for more than that is not reasonable. It would seriously affect male capability for well-being and even survival (look the amount of men who spend enormous quantities in things to attract women such as alcohol and parties but has to sleep in a mattress in some run down apt).

Thats why TheBlackPill subreddit was the 43rd biggest sub of reddit when deleted and the MGTOW in the top 114th. men cant seriously do any more, it is getting ridiculous in the west, and I am deeply sorry for my first world brothers.

Not everyone is like me or most TRP, who can just spend a third of their waking moments and up to half their salaries pursuing women... I am somewhat wealthy, worryless and free. Many guys did not have the same fortunate situation I had.

jojojijo333 · 2023-08-15T01:59:06+00:00

It's not like you're making them want/able to

twlghaes · 2023-08-15T13:26:33+00:00

I love my indipendence, the opportunity to succeed and have a career etc. BUT I am attracted to masculine men. Virility it’s becoming very very underrated and even women don’t notice and can’t explain it, is the key of what they want.

Welllarmedhippie · 2023-08-14T23:49:50+00:00

All men do anymore is take. Some women want to provide and take care of something, anything, be it a man, child or pet. So I guess men are offering that. Unless a woman is a mother hen, men offer absolutely nothing.

ROBYoutube · 2023-08-14T23:29:36+00:00

No. Personally I won't stop complaining and working until egalitarianism is achieved. It won't happen in my lifetime, but generations of geniuses died building cathedrals.

Patriarchy is hurting me, my brother, my dad, and my male friends. Oh and some of the women I guess. I want to see it gone.

Safinated · 2023-08-15T00:04:14+00:00

No, but it’s not clear that women would take it even if they did

Here’s what has to happen — the number of male vs female breadwinners and domestic managers need to be roughly equal, and/or true egalitarian households (roughly equal splits) will have to become the majority

As it stands, I don’t think either gender is willing and/or able to facilitate this shift. Women still want to do most of the childcare, and men do not

Lovemelikeareptile1 · 2023-08-14T23:24:44+00:00

I don't think they do. As long as men equate their value with the monetary value they can offer women as opposed what they can offer them as a person and as a man, men will fall behind on their offering.

RonMexico432 · 2023-08-15T03:06:38+00:00

"men" have largely given up. While guys used to aspire and work to be what women wanted, guys now just pout because gash doesn't fall on their nutter butter. They want out of their league without having to work for it.

pending_ending · 2023-08-15T03:54:53+00:00

men dont need to be attractive to women. just useful.

epicgamergamingtime · 2023-08-15T04:03:49+00:00

I think men are making the best offer they are willing to make. I say willing because the reward of getting a nice family is getting more and more unlikely.

In this time where everyone is kinda content to just look at social media or netflix at home and the middle class fades away due to cost of living increases a man can only really appeal to a woman by either earning enough money to significantly increase her lifestyle or offer an experience that she will enjoy e.g. shades of grey esque, beauty and the beast esque, comedy, be very hot etc..

So either lots of money or an experience. So imo men need to learn to be players because women really want that dramatic experience.

Its really like what high end male prostitutes already do. They provide a whole selected for experience to the woman where every move is calculated.

caption291 · 2023-08-15T09:06:36+00:00

It's fairly obvious that female attraction is relative rather than absolute. Or at least, the absolute standards women have are EASILY met by the average man so they are irrelevent.

So given that it's impossible for all men to simultaneously be in the top say 20% of the male population...There is nothing more men can reasonably be expected to offer as them offering more wouldn't make it more appealing for women to accept.

If you look at men 100 years ago and men today...it's very obvious that men have improved a LOT in terms of how they treat women...yet women are even less receptive to compromises nowadays. There is no indication from women whatsoever that "improving" the offer increases the chances they will accept it.

Reaching that point is the most you can realistically expect from an offer. So if women want men to improve the offer...they have to agree to reward that improvement and then do so when it happens...aka compromise and cooperate.

Dune587 · 2023-08-16T04:22:44+00:00

The fact that contraception and emancipation resulted in women getting married and having kids far less than in the past illustrates that a lot of women never really wanted those things in the first place and were just forced into them. Idk how you can expect to appeal to or “offer” something to women like that.

Imo the best thing a man can do is try to find a woman who is genuinely passionate about traditional values and family. Their standards will be reasonable.

Stergeary · 2023-08-20T22:02:16+00:00

It's not the role of a man to "make their best offer", the premise is already wrong at the start. A man's role is to take care of people in their inner circle, and if a woman wants to join that inner circle then they have to meet the standards of that man. Through dating, the woman finds out how well the man is able to take care of people, and the man finds out how well the woman meets his standards. The physical attraction is a bygone conclusion because neither of them would have agreed to a date if they weren't attracted to each other; now we have to figure out who likes the other more and who can afford to walk away.

The man's offer is what it is, and depending on how much game he has, it can be negotiated during the courtship process. Simps will give away all their power during this by giving the woman full access to his physical, mental, emotional, social, and financial resources in exchange for a chance at her. Chads will commit a minimal amount of what they have and the woman will still offer all of herself to him. Everyone else falls somewhere in between. The woman is the one who has full control of what the offer of the relationship is; the only question is whether or not she is willing to walk away and risk waiting for the next man to come along who she might be getting an even worse deal from. The time pressure is on her to make the right decisions before she gets too old, but to choose the best deal that she can get within that time.

The dynamic you are seeing and the reason why you even made this topic to ask this question, is that you are looking at the impact of the negative effects in the wake of feminism. As the movement forged ahead to give women sexual liberation in society, it also removed the masculine protections that women enjoyed, which used to shield women from "bad deals" in relationships. If a non-commital charismatic man made his move on a young woman in the past, he would have to get past his older brothers, his uncles, and ultimately his father. Men know other men's intentions much better because they understand male logic, at least far more than a younger and more emotional woman would.

But nowadays, we've decided that men taking care of people in their inner circle is "patriarchy", and so women now have to figure out the men that approach them, and clearly they aren't doing a very good job at it because all the pumping and dumping by Chads is leaving women so traumatized that they are absolutely confused about the gender dynamic and where men's power is, to the point of thinking about men "making their best offer". The reality is, people will always pay as little as they can to get the same product. No one is incentivized to pay as much money as they are willing to in order to get the exact same thing. It used to be a woman's close male family that would filter out men offering bad deals, but now women have to do that alone and they are failing at it.

Title	Are men making their best offer?
Author	WilliamWyattD
Upvotes	5
Comments	122
Date	August 14, 2023 11:11 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/15rafya/are_men_making_their_best_offer/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/are-men-making-their-best-offer.1228498 https://theredarchive.com/post/1228498

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