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[–]DerekAcorah 32 points33 points34 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
The bar to qualify as a feminist seems to be incredibly low, and yet the bar to qualify as a "true feminist" seems to be unreachable.
How about if you believe in equality but also believe that feminist theory is a load of bollocks?
[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
This was known as the "true German" vs "real German" schism in Nazi Germany.
[+][deleted] 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
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[–]awwwwyehmutherfurk 8 points9 points10 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
That hat is rad.
[–]Crackerjacksurgeon 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Homies know not to fuck with a man who killed a Russian, stole his hat, and put his scull in it as a centerpiece.
[–]1BlackKnight 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Sometimes more is never enough.
[–]a_personification 18 points19 points20 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Nope. I stand for the rights of women and children, I'm not a feminist. I'm not an MRA. That doesn't mean I'm against the rights of men.
Please, everyone needs to spend less time and energy on the opinions of extremists, and more time gaining rights.
[–]anon445 11 points12 points13 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
more time gaining rights.
Amen.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Please, everyone needs to spend less time and energy on the opinions of extremist
It's a random person on the internet. I don't care what some random person says. Educate them instead of complaining about it.
Also, it's spelled "feminist"
[–]BalefireX 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Egalitarian?
[–]TheLiberatedMan 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I always say I’m for INDIVIDUAL rights, rather than group X. Although I think children’s rights are more important, because they’re a group who can’t speak up for themselves and are in an involuntary situation.
[–]ILoveHate 10 points11 points12 points 12 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
I'm not the one who tells women or claims that women are inferior to men. I'm not the one who says a man can destroy a woman completely with nothing but his dick. And I'm certainly not the one who keeps telling women that they can never earn as much as a man because society dictates so. But sure, let's talk about feminism.
After all, why are feminists arguing about affirmative action, quota's in the workplace, and demanding men be held responsible for drunk sex, while claiming women are nothing but victims. Victims don't have agency. So a drunk man (according to feminists) will always be stronger and more aware than a drunk woman. According to feminists a woman who's had a few drinks is nothing more than a bag of meat that couldn't consent her way out of a paper bag, whereas a man is expected to be aware of the law, and make precise long term decisions that could affect the rest of his life.
I mean think about it. Patriarchy theory basically states that no matter what a woman does, she'll never "truly" be successful because of men. How easy is it to blame men for not succeeding rather than take responsibility for your own actions? Oh you have a masters in women's studies? And you're not making six figures? Patriarchy.
[–]SpanishGuy 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Patriarchy theory basically states that no matter what a woman does, she'll never "truly" be successful because of men
That's why we know they are playing the victim card. They don't want any solution, they just want to remain as victims. Forever.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm a victim, please protect me, I am in a state of perpetual victimhood.
I'm a feminist, you had better treat me as an equal!
[–]stealer0517 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Your font is God awful
I hope whoever created it burns in hell
[–]Jizzmaster3000 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Is it wrong that I am more outraged by the use of that font?
[–]outhouse_steakhouse 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I don't think women are inferior. I don't see them as eternal helpless passive agency-less victims. That's why I'm not a feminist.
[–]AlongAustower 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm a feminist because i believe women are inferior, eternally helpless, passive, agency-less victims.
I guess im just a better person than you
It's best not to get into discussions of what a person is; the question is their actions towards others. "Are you a whatever-ist?" I treat people equally.
[–]THUORN 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Anyone using that reasoning is just projecting. They are bigots and assume everyone else must be also.
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Gotta love how they use it as a silencing tactic to oppose opinions different to what feminism is.
Feminism is only convenient to certain women, not all women. If women actually looked to see which race benefitted more from feminism you'd see more calling it out for it's horse shit.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
If women actually looked to see which race benefitted more from feminism you'd see more calling it out for it's horse shit.
Then the torches and pitchforks would come out to take back the much abused "Women and Minorities" label that gets thrown around.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
In the US and especially canada white women are actually doing better than women of other races. Washington actually admitting to it and wanted them gone from AA in which women's groups got their panties in a wad and threatened a lawsuit.
Don't know what happened afterwards but also in canada you'll see a majority of white women in the college and university scene. If you call a white woman a minority at this time it's factually incorrect.
[–]louis_xiv42 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I think people who use that font are inferior.
Ban them all! Wait, wrong subreddit.
[–]AlongAustower 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You're not a logical fallacy? You mean you didnt just create a stawman using a loaded question to present a black or white fallacy?
[–]what_the_whale 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You're not a feminist? You don't support gender equality? You think women are inferior to men? You haven't stopped beating your wife yet?
[–]Nomenimion 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What does equality even mean?
It means whatever is convenient for them.
[–]blueyb 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
It's almost always a liberal posting that sort of nonsense. I often reply with "You don't like every part of the patriot act? What, you don't want America to be safe? You support the Terrorists?"
The leap in logic between "our stated goal is x" and "anyone who opposes us must therefore hate x" is astounding. The difference between "we say we want x" and "our actions actually promote x" can be quite a bridge to cross, especially for modern feminism.
[–]thro_way 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
"Our policies should be judged by their intentions, not by their results!"
--Liberalism in a nutshell
[–]Nomenimion 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'll have to remember that one.
[–]RJsSwagger 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Nope, all three sentences are questions.
[–]TytalusWarden 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I can answer "no" to all 3 of those. Guess that doesn't work?
[+][deleted] 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]autowikibot 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Denying the antecedent:
Denying the antecedent, sometimes also called inverse error or fallacy of the inverse, is a formal fallacy of inferring the inverse from the original statement. It is committed by reasoning in the form: If P, then Q. Not P.
Denying the antecedent, sometimes also called inverse error or fallacy of the inverse, is a formal fallacy of inferring the inverse from the original statement. It is committed by reasoning in the form:
If P, then Q. Not P.
If P, then Q.
Not P.
Interesting: Modus tollens | Affirming the consequent | Modus ponens | Non sequitur (logic)
Parent commenter can toggle NSFW or delete. Will also delete on comment score of -1 or less. | FAQs | Mods | Magic Words
[+]Pixelnoob -9 points-8 points-7 points 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
Although the word is misused a lot, feminism's aim is and always has been gender equality. You may have a problem with the word, and the connotations of calling yourself a feminist (that you neglect men's rights, which is of course not the case, due to the meaning of the word equality), but ultimately if you believe in gender equality you are a feminist, whether you want the label or not
[–]SchalaZeal01 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
and the connotations of calling yourself a feminist (that you neglect men's rights, which is of course not the case, due to the meaning of the word equality)
Come on, who on this sub got called a misogynist because they supported men's right, absent anything else about women?
I bet everyone will raise their hand. That's why they're here.
Most people who listen to MRA stuff, tried to listen to feminist stuff before, because we've all been naive before, thinking feminism really does care about equality, and men too. Til we learned that doing so makes us evil, uncaring, conservatives, who want "Father knows best" 1950s gender roles - regardless of our actual stance (and yes this is what most people outside this sub think of MRAs - due to being told by feminists that MRAs are that and only that).
I'm a trans woman, and I've been called a misogynist anyways, because I believe female privilege exists, and that the safety net afforded to women beats the slightly superior shot at the high spheres of male privilege (more poor people than the 1% of top people).
[–]Pixelnoob -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I agree with some of what you're saying, but you're confusing individuals who refer to themselves as feminists and the actual meaning of feminism. People can take a label and say it means whatever they want, but regardless of what it is used to justify, feminism's only true meaning is gender equality, and I believe the reason it has that name is because it is a movement which started at a time when women had a much smaller space in society than men, and were inarguably less powerful and had been in most civilisations for almost as long as humans have existed in all likelihood
[–]SchalaZeal01 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
feminism's only true meaning is gender equality
Feminism is as feminism as feminism does.
If the "meaning of feminism" is never applied by people in the real world who have influence, then it means nothing. Just like Marxism socialism never being correctly applied in practice by anyone ever, at a national level.
and were inarguably less powerful
Less powerful than the people at the top, inarguably. Less powerful than Joe the Nonlandowner who cant vote? Gimme a break.
and had been in most civilisations for almost as long as humans have existed in all likelihood
Let me laugh.
Before Joe the Nonlandowner got the universal suffrage and could finally vote (something like 5-10 years before women got it) - there was monarchy, where he had NO VOTE whatsoever, because there was no election. And whatever influence he had probably was nothing compared to people at the top. And similar to women of his economic level.
[–]Pixelnoob 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Okay I'm sorry but a lot of what you've said there is simply ridiculous. I'm not arguing that poor men had no hardships to contend with, but to say they had it as hard as women is based on your own prejudices which you haven't actually bothered to back up by learning about the past
[–]SchalaZeal01 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They had it as hard as women.
Women had different advantages. Men had different advantages.
Nowadays they do too, each have different advantages.
You're the one who says "OMG it was so tilted!!", but that's built-in bias. The "patriarchy" itself is biased in a pro-woman way. No way it would make it that much worse for women. At worst it would be different-but-equal-burden.
At least until the 1970s, where it became different-except-when-its-better-burden.
[–]WelcomeTheHavok 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
I'm sure if we reversed the words here and tried to push it along as "if you believe in equality your really an mra even if you don't want the label" you wouldn't agree with the same point you made
well as I see it it's coming at the same issue but focussing on different sides. So actually yes I would agree, as long as you define being an MRA as seeking gender equality, I fail to see how you could be either a feminist or an MRA and not the other
MRAs don't oppose feminist efforts to help women (they oppose stuff that is gendered when it shouldn't be, not to remove it, but to make it for both - like VAWA).
Feminists oppose MRAs efforts to help men.
Again, when you say feminists oppose MRAs, you are talking about particular people who use the label but haven't stayed true to what feminism actually means. You aren't actually presenting an opposite view, you're just talking about something different, ie people who use the term feminism without knowing it's true meaning
No True Scotman, known fallacy, bad to debate with, I win.
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[–]DerekAcorah 32 points33 points34 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] (3 children) | Copy Link
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[–]awwwwyehmutherfurk 8 points9 points10 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Crackerjacksurgeon 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]1BlackKnight 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]a_personification 18 points19 points20 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]anon445 11 points12 points13 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]BalefireX 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheLiberatedMan 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]ILoveHate 10 points11 points12 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]SpanishGuy 6 points7 points8 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]stealer0517 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Jizzmaster3000 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]outhouse_steakhouse 3 points4 points5 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]AlongAustower 3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
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[–]THUORN 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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