On the wage gap: Women do ask for more. They just aren't rewarded for it. - Your thoughts?

mickeymau5music · 2012-12-03T23:13:05+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Crimson_D82 · 2012-12-04T00:43:19+00:00

Why is a woman's issue in the mensrights subreddit?

dermanus · 2012-12-04T05:22:56+00:00

I admit I haven't read the article incredibly closely, but it seems like they focus on the high acheivers. Every story and study seems to cite MBAs and CEOs.

It spends a lot of attention on what feminists have traditionally called "the glass ceiling", which is the fact that there are more men in C-level positions and using this as evidence of discrimination. What they ignore is the "glass cellar" where women seldom end up working the dirtiest or most dangerous jobs out there. It could be on a fishing boat or a garbage truck, or it could be a lumberjack.

The article does seem to point to some cases of genuine discrimination (e.g. "The managers that were told they'd have to negotiate gave men two-and-a-half times the amount in raises that they gave to women before anyone sat down") but I think it ignores the aggregate of information in favour of focusing on a very narrow set of high-acheivers.

ignatiusloyola · 2012-12-03T23:09:52+00:00

We have studies saying opposing things. First consider the group doing the study - is there any possible reason for bias on their part? (ie: is one of them feminist/traditionalist?)

tacobacalao · 2012-12-04T09:12:01+00:00

The article muddles the picture a bit here:

One study told 184 managers that they would have a limited pot of money to hand out in raises to employees with identical skills and responsibilities. The managers that were told they'd have to negotiate gave men two-and-a-half times the amount in raises that they gave to women before anyone sat down. This meant that the men didn't even need to negotiate for higher pay, while women were already at a disadvantage when they tried to bargain up, because the rest of the money was assigned to their male peers.

The study linked says that men get 2.5x as women when the manager has been told that there would be negotiations and get the same when the managers are told that there will be no negotiation. There is no research on 'why' this is the case.

The interesting questions are:

are managers (both men and women) reluctant to negotiate with male employees? If yes, what is the cause of this reluctance?
is there a perception amongst the managers (both men and women) that the male employees are better negotiators?
have male employees been better negotiators in the past and thus affecting the managers' (both men and women) stance on any future negotiations?

I think that finding answers to this question will help in bridging the 7% gap.

hardwarequestions · 2012-12-04T00:03:51+00:00

ugh, check the other discussions tab and see how /2xc is discussing this...the two comments already up jump right to the idea that women lack agency and are only making these decisions due to bias and societal pressure, and that such things NEED to be addressed immediately.

actanonverba8 · 2012-12-04T07:02:56+00:00

There is no wage gap AND "The Atlantic" has been feminist-friendly territory for a couple decades now.

Title	On the wage gap: Women do ask for more. They just aren't rewarded for it. - Your thoughts?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	7
Comments	24
Date	December 3, 2012 10:47 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1485kc/on_the_wage_gap_women_do_ask_for_more_they_just/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/on-the-wage-gap-women-do-ask-for-more-they-just.1007667 https://theredarchive.com/post/1007667

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