Drunk women can consent to sex.

Merawder · 2012-10-15T16:35:23+00:00

I posted an askfeminists question and got pretty reasonable responses

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/11hjny/is_drunk_sex_rape/

oneiorosgrip · 2012-10-15T22:59:42+00:00

I think when people apply the term "rape" to circumstances in which neither participant actively, knowingly, and deliberately ignored the other's right to refuse sexual contact, it diminishes the weight of the term. It's an unjust treatment of the alleged perpetrator, and an insult to real victims when that word gets tossed around like a dammed dodgeball.

I see the recent "light" treatment of rape as an extension of the treatment of female love and affection as commodities which must be earned through... essentially, elaborate salesmanship and bribery. It's almost like they're trying to turn the human mating process into that of some species of spiders (except with less clear communication,) putting men through a complicated pattern of shit tests in order to get through a sexual encounter without having the trap sprung and an arrest made, even if his partner participated in the act with no sign of unwillingness. If society is going to pepper sex with such pitfalls as would turn a brutal, malevolent act into an accident, then society has no right treating anyone who gets trapped in one of those pitfalls as an aggressor. That treatment really makes the male partner more the victim of a scam than the perpetrator of a rape.

2012-10-15T16:00:07+00:00

I suppose that drunk people could consent. They can also regret having done so when those inhibitions that were minimized by alcohol consumption return with sobriety. They can also fail to remember consenting.

Point is, it is each person's responsibility to control his/her own actions. If you plan on having sex with a drunk person, get consent before drinking. Protect yourself.

MTBigsky · 2012-10-15T18:55:56+00:00

It's a persons choice to drink. If they choose to drink to excess that is their own personal choice and they must suffer the consequences of their actions. I'm sick of people using intoxication as an excuse, i would never consider intoxication a mental handicap. Nobody forced the 7 shots of tequila down your throat.

Jovial_Gorilla · 2012-10-15T17:49:19+00:00

Feminists constantly invoke "rape-culture" because it's a very emotionally evocative term that can quickly whip people up into a frenzy of indignation. It doesn't really mean much, it's just something that is good as a rallying cry for the fanatics.

Feminists are to the Liberals what the Christian fundamentalists are to the Conservatives in the USA.

Sapphires13 · 2012-10-15T21:08:04+00:00

I'm a woman that just joined this group.

I have a coworker, several years older than me, but miles less mature, that likes to go out to clubs, and always drinks too much. She either goes home with, or takes home random guys. There have been numerous occasions where she drank so much that she didn't even remember leaving the club, let alone consenting to sex. And there was one such occasion where she wondered whether she'd been raped.

In my opinion, if you're not so absolutely drunk that you are literally passed out, unconscious, unable to say "yes" or "no", then that's probably rape. If you're drunk enough that you don't remember it the next day, but still able to converse and move on your own, then that's irresponsible, but not rape. Not to say that it's never rape in those situations, but it's certainly not rape by default.

Bottom line, if you simply can't remember, then there's no way for you to say for sure whether you were saying "yes, please" or "no, don't". If both parties are equally drunk, then it's simply mutual stupidity. Not rape.

If one is drunker than the other, then there's a certain level of taking advantage there. But it's not rape if no one is unconscious and/or actively resisting/saying no.

I believe that if you go out and keep drinking to the point of amnesia and total inhibition, then you made that choice. Unless you had drinks forced upon you, or someone drugged you, then as an adult, you took the risk and put yourself into that situation. There are much lower-risk ways to have fun. Drink in a controlled environment, with people that you trust. Avoid the possibility of a bad situation arising. This is what I've always done.

That said, I once had an experience. My boyfriend had taken Nyquil before bed. We ended up fooling around, and having sex. The next day, I say to him "I had fun last night." He looks confused for a minute, then goes "We had sex last night?" He had no memory of it, though he was actively involved, and I didn't coerce him in any way. But I'm pretty sure I didn't rape him.

MRAreader · 2012-10-15T14:13:20+00:00

I actually had a lot of success with my girlfriend explaining to her the MRA perspective on this issue. I told her:

"Does it make sense that you or I can sign a mortgage drunk, can buy a car drunk, can sign any other contract drunk, but can't consent to sex after even one or two drinks. Intoxication can only be used to void a contract if it's shown that the counterparty intentionally got you drunk because you would not have agreed to the contract otherwise. That means basically if I bought you a bunch of shots, or put a roofie in your drink then yeah the contract would be voidable otherwise, you signed the mortgage."

She actually agreed, made me think she's a keeper.

unexpecteditem · 2012-10-15T10:12:17+00:00

Were you drunk when you wrote this? It's hard to see what your point is. Could you sum it up in one sentence?

Noltonn · 2012-10-15T16:38:06+00:00

They certainly can consent to sex when drunk.

They can also retract that consent afterwards for any number of reasons [they got caught by a bf/husband, they felt guilty or slutty, they can't remember what happened.] There is very little that can save an innocent man in that case unless you have direct video evidence like in the Hofstra Case or you have multiple txt messages to show your accusers story is false like in the Greg Kelly case.

There is also the problem of the man being intoxicated as well. Could he give consent? Was he raped? Who raped whom?

2012-10-15T21:56:38+00:00

Drunk people can totally consent to sex; but, it can still be rape without the victim lying unconscious in a pool of vomit. Also, it's not always clear how drunk a person is... I've had people think I'm sober while blacked out, for example.

EDIT: I have had sex while sober-looking-but-blacked-out, and I wouldn't say I was raped... or, I suppose I would say that I was raped, but that it didn't bother me. Apparently only 30% of rape victims actually suffer PTSD, so how the victim feels doesn't define rape, but I suppose it does define prosecution... unfortunately, most of the time that feeling is spite.

nwz123 · 2012-10-15T23:14:58+00:00

I agree and disagree. I agree with the idea that it's ludicrous to think that women can consent to sex while drunk WHEN they actually want it, but when it's 'unwanted' (the meaning of which is variable), then it's rape, even if the person didn't say no. This is basic cherry-picking.

But I wholeheartedly disagree with you on the second example. That guy basically forced himself on her via coercion (psychological). Yea, sure she could have left, but that doesn't change the fact that he kept trying even when she said no. After no two or three times, a reasonable person would get the point. That is rape, and hell, it happens to men too. No idea why you would want to support that kind of thing.

Funcuz · 2012-10-15T19:39:08+00:00

Of course women can consent to sex while drunk . The difference between you two is that she's allowed to retroactively withdraw said consent .

That's really all you need to know .

rightsbot · 2012-10-15T09:50:17+00:00

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sp00kes · 2012-10-15T19:18:32+00:00

Can't you just not have sex with drunk people?

docsquidly · 2012-10-15T19:26:37+00:00

Did the FBI change the definition of rape to include when a woman had consumed alcohol? Or, was that just a proposed change?

TheAlphaRanger · 2012-10-15T21:55:10+00:00

I get mad when people try to shrug off their responsibilities and blame them on someone else just because they were intoxicated. (and I'm mainly talking about people doing stupid shit that they regret the next day, like punching a wall or something) You don't become less of a human when you're drunk, and alcohol doesn't absolve you of all responsibility.

Note that I said "intoxicated" and not "too drunk to function"/"unresponsive"/"passed out". If the person is unable to consent, then that's obviously a different story.

kalanosh · 2012-10-16T01:03:40+00:00

Personally, I believe that there's a threshold to this kind of thing. If anyone gets drunk to the point where they're defecating in corners and can barely walk, it's certainly morally wrong to have sex with them unless your judgement is equally impaired.

frederickharttt · 2012-10-16T04:33:02+00:00

Metaphor: sticking your wang into a blender. AVOID DRUNK WOMEN!

MysterMoron · 2012-10-15T16:43:24+00:00

It was just...do a lot of these people that want to paint guys as an ugly picture really get away with it this much?

Yes, they do.

Though when you turn the tables around, they're devil's spawn.

alphabetpal · 2012-10-15T16:22:51+00:00

Rape law has nothing to do with justice any more. The goal is to incarcerate as many men as possible, by whatever means necessary.

ErasmusMRA · 2012-10-15T10:22:46+00:00

dude, why are you linking to a post thats five years old?

Title	Drunk women can consent to sex.
Author	kalanosh
Upvotes	76
Comments	73
Date	October 15, 2012 9:48 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/11i726/drunk_women_can_consent_to_sex/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/drunk-women-can-consent-to-sex.1011318 https://theredarchive.com/post/1011318

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