This is one side of men's right's that I am not seeing being discussed here yet.

SSJAmes · 2012-08-16T05:23:11+00:00

Gender roles are talked about a lot on here actually....

jolly_mcfats · 2012-08-16T04:51:58+00:00

I think that this is actually pretty core to a rebuttal against the concept that men make a patriarchy that empowers men. Power-fixated men don't care about other men, they care about their own power. At the root of men's issues is that nobody cares what happens to men, unless men achieve sufficient status to take care of themselves. Men in power actually care more about women than other men, and, if you subscribe to evolutionary psychology, we've been conditioning ourselves for that world view for a long time.

I am constantly irritated at other people telling me what it is to be a man. That is something that I think every man should be able to decide for himself.

jazzygeoff · 2012-08-16T05:00:39+00:00

[permanently deleted]

2012-08-16T06:50:22+00:00

I carry a handbag. I used to get a lot of shit from my family (extended and nuclear). However I never really had anyone bother me about it. People thinking you are homosexual is not discrimination. I think people are too afraid of things. Even if you wear a skirt (as I have) no one actually stops you or beats you or anything. Let the haters hate imo. I'm not saying there is no problem. But don't be too afraid my brother.

I think game offers a good perspective here. Do not "break frame." If someone gives you shit for baking or having a messenger bag don't let it bother you. Certainly do not "apologize" but also don't get too angry either. The best thing is to casually say that they are being shallow and narrow minded and to act like their stupidity is a waste of your time (which it is).

ignatiusloyola · 2012-08-16T05:08:04+00:00

This has been talked about for a very long time. Social rights are important, but are typically less pressing of an issue than legal rights. So people don't talk about them as much. If you feel it is important, bring it up. Getting after others for not bringing it up for you isn't going to be very effective.

rottingchrist · 2012-08-16T06:12:48+00:00

Yeah, MRAs in favour of enforcing gender roles are actually a fairly big part of the MR movement. Outside of this subreddit, you won't find too many MRAs supportive of your desire to break down gender stereotypes. Most of them put on the false tough guy bravado and are pretty disdainful of anyone not being "manly".

/r/mensrights is considered "leftist" and "full of manginas" by many if them.

You may get downvoted on here, but there are many here who are supportive of the issues you mention. So don't let that discourage you. I, personally, agree with you unequivocally.

ThePigman · 2012-08-16T05:36:19+00:00

"Are there any enforced stereotypes upon men that bug you?"

Yeah, they all bug me.

thrway_1000 · 2012-08-16T05:02:32+00:00

I'd agree with this. We do need to talk more about male bonding, male friendship, gender stereotypes, and how men should be allowed more options in how we socialize.

rapiertwit · 2012-08-16T11:48:37+00:00

Women who elbowed their way into the working world were jeered by other women, as well as men. Everybody, regardless of sex, who is invested in the status quo, feels threatened by people who disregard it. So yeah, of course, men's liberation is being held back by men and women alike. It's nothing that shouldn't be expected.

bikemaul · 2012-08-16T04:41:10+00:00

I feel like we as men sometimes put limitations on ourselves.

That guy waiting outside for you and critiquing your style, don't let him stop you from having the best bag for you. From what I have seen this happens mostly in high school.

Got a good recipe?

CoolLordL21 · 2012-08-16T07:19:39+00:00

There will always be random douche bags harassing you over something. The best thing to do is be as unashamed as possible. If someone teased me for baking (while I was doing it) I'd say something like "(laughs) looks like you won't be getting any."

drinkthebleach · 2012-08-16T07:20:28+00:00

I hear ya, I have long hair. Nothing but 'Lol you look like a girl!' comments until it got long enough to be badass.

Legolas-the-elf · 2012-08-16T10:10:19+00:00

I can't walk out in public with my super awesome messenger bag without some douche bag shouting homosexual slanders at me.

Out of interest, where are you? I carried a messenger bag daily for years, and I literally never ever got this once (in a city in the UK).

atheist_verd · 2012-08-16T10:29:42+00:00

I love m messenger bags and I do like to wear my kilts. Mostly just get little old ladies asking if I'm wearing anything under them lol.

2012-08-16T11:09:27+00:00

If you're carrying around a satchel or a messenger bag and someone gives you shit you fuckin' stab that bitch because they're little whiney assholes.

And you know what? Fuck everyone, baking is the shit, you don't have to BUY cookies if you can fuckin' bake them.

That shit's not unmanly, you just have unmanly vaginas shouting at you to make themselves feel better for their inadequacy.

Silgrenus · 2012-08-16T15:10:26+00:00

Think of this: Back in the day, when girls and women start wearing trousers or cutting their hair short, they were ridiculed. But now it's acceptable. The same applies for us. If we start challenging the gender structure that affects us, soon we'll be able to break it. It's small things like these that will make the difference.

improbus · 2012-08-20T02:06:46+00:00

I carry around a 5.11 shoulder bag. It looks like a purse from a distance. I had a guy say something like, "Nice purse, bro" to me at Target once.

I walked over and told him that I carried this bag with me in Afghanistan. It held a sidearm, 6 clips of ammunition and a tourniquet in case I had to work on someone who just had their arm or leg blown off. I then asked if he had any further issue with my "purse."

Always confront these people. Don't let people get away with rude behavior.

rightsbot · 2012-08-16T04:32:18+00:00

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ExpendableOne · 2012-08-16T13:43:18+00:00

This is something that comes up on here from time to time and it is discussed. For the record though, it's not just men who shame other men on this. Men will often tease other men about it(though generally speaking, it's very light-hearted and they will get over it really quickly) but women will also ridicule or belittle men for not acting in stereotypical masculine ways as well(whether it's in their behavior or in what they wear). Women are in far better situation to actually hurt or penalize men, especially heterosexual men or men who are still very vulnerable to female approval(which pretty much seems like an ingrained human trait, generally speaking). When a men scoffs or laughs at something you another man does, it's a lot easier to just ignore it and move on; when a woman scoffs or laughs at something a man does, resulting in his own emasculation, desexualisation or sexual/emotional devaluation, it becomes a lot harder to just ignore. There are even cases where you have men putting other men down, simply to gain the approval or desirability of other women(something which tends to be coined as "A-type" or "alpha" male behavior, and essentially accepted because it is pandering to women). So, to say that it's just "men limiting other men" is kind of a fallacy, it's not. Hell, in some ways, hazing is often something that men do to other men to help, protect or prepare them from other social circles.

toblotron · 2012-08-16T09:54:13+00:00

Where do you live?

I've been sporting messenger bags since.. forever, and never gotten an unfavorable comment - one good side of living in Sweden

Not all of Europe is like that, though - In Croatia I was laughed at for ordering lovely girly drinks, instead of what men were supposed to order; just pure booze. It was just funny to me at the time, but I can imagine it feeling stifling to live in a culture like that, full-time.

The_Patriarchy · 2012-08-16T12:34:04+00:00

And why can't I share my love of baking without getting teased?

I'm assuming you're still a kid, because this sounds like a problem a kid would have. Anyway, stand up for yourself when they tease you. This may involve a fight, so be prepared for that too. Being a young guy in highschool/etc. is all about not showing weakness to other guys. That doesn't mean hiding shit you enjoy...that means standing up for yourself and not running away from conflict.

In school I was one of the kids who dressed in all black and wore black nail polish and shit (not really "goth"...we called ourselves "freaks"...it was sort of a cross between skaters, metal-heads, punks, and goths). But I didn't get shit for it because I stood up for myself. In like 9th grade some kid gave me shit over my shoes, and we ended up fighting. It was a shitty fight, but it sent the message that I would stand up for myself and I earned the respect I deserved. So stand up for yourself. Even if you get your ass kicked (and you might) at least you'll show them that you're not weak...you'll show them that fucking with you has a price.

2012-08-16T12:44:06+00:00

The thing to do there, is wear your awesome sense of fashion even more boldly, so douchebags can get even more mad while you earn the respect of non douchebags.

Or get all sparkly and shit as a deliberate embrace of being able to like things you arent "supposed to". Thus were born bronies.

2012-08-16T13:20:29+00:00

There are people who regularly post on /r/MensRights who think they are MRAs and who reenforce this type of shit.

Plake4222 proving my point

And again

2012-08-17T07:43:31+00:00

I carry a bag every day, it has extra smokes, extra lighters, first aid kit, swiss army knife, my kindle, just every day stuff. Much like a women would use a purse. A women at work said something to me about a "man bag" once. I quickly replied that it was a satchel, like indiana jones carries.

2012-08-16T04:51:58+00:00

A lot of people aren't comfortable with themselves. There are a lot of people that think if men do anything even remotely gay they'll suddenly start craving cock.

C0CKPUNCHER · 2012-08-16T07:28:22+00:00

If the question is 'why is it men who insult other men' it's because dangerous men are not policed, when they are a threat to other men, they are policed far more when they are a threat to women. Imagine a classroom with a female teacher, who does nothing to stop the violent thug ruining the class but actually gives him more attention than all the well behaved kids. The smart boys suffer, the bad boys - also suffer by not getting corrected but rather exploited, the girls get to date bad boys.

The more feminist England gets, the more ineffective the courts get. This serves feminism in two ways, one it gives them more ammo about violent men and women victims, two it lets them paint the courts as the draconian patriarchy they are destroying.

Beyond that men fight men because girlfriends and mothers manipulate and or terrorize them.

LFBR · 2012-08-16T05:06:05+00:00

You're right. Let's stop talking about Parental Rights and shit, and start talking about REALLY important stuff like that....

Good idea...what was I thinking?

Irrel_M · 2012-08-16T09:42:40+00:00

http://www.reddit.com/r/EDC/

2012-08-16T12:19:09+00:00

I think you had a run-in with some small minded people. I often carry a bag but it's pretty much a small gym bag or backpack. That being said, I need to know for sure that your bag isn't bedazzled or something is it? :) Just kiddin' man! Don't sweat people like that. You're a confident dude. Remember that. Always.

On a similar note. I always bro-fist anyone I ever see in a kilt. Always. 1 2

ENTP · 2012-08-16T15:50:24+00:00

Enforced gender norms hurt everybody.

Title	This is one side of men's right's that I am not seeing being discussed here yet.
Author	LFBR
Upvotes	23
Comments	51
Date	August 16, 2012 4:31 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/yay7b/this_is_one_side_of_mens_rights_that_i_am_not/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/this-is-one-side-of-mens-rights-that-i-am-not.1015741 https://theredarchive.com/post/1015741

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