Upcoming AMA with Philip Zimbardo, who recently wrote an article "The demise of guys." That was picked apart by the MRM

pcarvious · 2012-06-06T16:48:09+00:00

My comment, I really hope to get a response.

Could porn and video games be a symptom, not the problem?

I don't know if you're aware, but there are a number of male subcultures that have appeared over the last twenty or so years. These subcultures, Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) and Pick Up Artists (PUA), are both growing relatively rapidly. Each of them is defined by a different perspective on interactions with society and the general break down of what is viewed as the social contract. Men are still held to their end of the contract while women have been allowed to break it.

To further this, men often are put in situations where their traditional gender roles are expected and deviation from these roles often leads to social stigma. Porn and Video games are places where men can exist outside of the rigid social roles that are normally attached to men. To further this, we can look at boys from an early age. If you follow labeling theory, boys are often marginalized by their teachers in schools. Ally Char-Chellman covers this topic in her ted talk. To tie this to labeling theory, boys are often told, repeatedly, or through example that they will fail or aren't as good as girls. This has been reaffirmed by gender based bias in the classroom PDF warning.

Now to another point, are men being made risk-averse by porn, or are they risk-averse and turning to porn? If you look at divorce rates within the United States, they are relatively high. This is just a quick and dirty look at divorce rates. However, there is little social incentive for men to marry if they're going to be divorced almost half the time or more. With alimony laws and child support, the amount of money that men are having to spend is relatively massive compared to their take home income. Often times more than half will disappear into a system that does not guarantee access to their children. Further, these risks don't only happen within marriage. Unmarried men who become fathers of children have to deal with Putative father's registries, and other legal hurdles to become a part of their children's lives. You may have heard recently about the head of the Utah Adoption Council retiring. Fit fathers were pushed aside to allow for hasty adoptions. Even those that followed all the necessary legal steps were forced out.

Is it a wonder that men are becoming risk-averse? Society has said jumped and many men have only to have the floor pulled out from under them.

Correcting some typos.

Edited to add my links back in.

DoctorStorm · 2012-06-06T19:33:26+00:00

Aside from my issues with the article, I'd personally like to know how he feels about the culture he's created.

Specifically, he has validated the baseless fears of overbearing parents that any and all male children who play video games and/or look for porn are on the "bad" path.

Since he has validated these fears, parents are now removing video games entirely from the household, and placing their male children in therapy when any pornography is found.

Given time, I believe this will further increase the number of men who are depressed, and the number of men who commit suicide.

In short, I'd like to know how he feels about this, and I'd like to know if he's prepared to deal with the repercussions of his words and actions.

Homeles · 2012-06-06T16:38:39+00:00

We should be a little upset on behalf of banana slugs that he feared we would devolve into in his TED talk. Also point out that banana slugs make love slowly, which was something he pointed out as what women want.

The guy is a dumbass.

Koocnahtanoj · 2012-06-06T21:51:20+00:00

From his post:

My book questions whether the rampant overuse of video games and porn are damaging this generation of men.

Maybe it's just me, but MAYBE, just maybe, he should question whether the changing social structure and status of females might be damaging men and changing how men define their masculinities.

Dolanduckaroo · 2012-06-07T03:03:55+00:00

I'd personally pay Philip Zimbardo $1000 for him to argue against: http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-misandry-bubble.html

His book lists the symptoms of the problem but fails to address the disease.

Bobsutan · 2012-06-06T17:43:00+00:00

We should be using this time to vet questions we'd like to see answered, like how does he think modern society's anti-maleness is what's drivinng boys and men to video games and porn in the first place?

NecroBumpist · 2012-06-06T15:45:08+00:00

MRM?

primaloath · 2012-06-06T18:10:22+00:00

Note the thread title. The AMA is starting on June 7 12PM.

Title	Upcoming AMA with Philip Zimbardo, who recently wrote an article "The demise of guys." That was picked apart by the MRM
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	49
Comments	29
Date	June 6, 2012 2:31 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/unz6o/upcoming_ama_with_philip_zimbardo_who_recently/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/upcoming-ama-with-philip-zimbardo-who-recently.1020313 https://theredarchive.com/post/1020313

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