Sheryl Sandberg, COO of Facebook, sees "ambition gap" for women.

pcarvious · 2012-02-14T15:08:53+00:00

Equal maternity and paternity leave...

We have this in Canada. Is there no paternity leave in the US?

Other than that I don't see her speech as an MR issue.

On a side note I think she raises some good points. There is a negativity towards ambitious women, though in my experience the worst of it comes from other women, not from men.

DevinV · 2012-02-14T15:47:04+00:00

This is because men have to actually do things in this world. There are no reasonable assurances that even if you fuck up bad that there's something to fall back on, something which is evidenced by the massive disparity in the homeless and imprisoned.

You want women to try as hard as men? Fine. Treat women just like men. No more special treatment. I get the feeling that she won't go for that, though...

fondueguy · 2012-02-14T16:35:17+00:00

Ambition gap, yes. But what does that mean.

Men and women have a hours of labor gap, commuting to work gap, workplace death gap, retirement gap, and into too of that WOMEN SPEND MORE MONEY THEN MEN.

So yes, let's close this ambition gap. This could also help close the gap between single men and married men, who have to work much longer to support.

Evets616 · 2012-02-14T13:04:49+00:00

I don't think that it's society doing all of this. She doesn't address at all that women self-select to not be ambitious for a career.

I know this is an anecdote, but all the women I was friends with in grad school were driven and very smart. And almost all of them were spending all this time and money on education and the beginning of a career as basically something to take up their time until they found a husband and could be a stay at home mom.

I just don't think that society should take the blame for women choosing to forgo careers. It's a perfectly valid choice but it is their choice.

TracyMorganFreeman · 2012-02-14T22:45:25+00:00

We say we want to educate our girls as much as our boys, but we don't mean it

You're right Sheryl. The graduation rates, test scores, college enrollment of boys compared to girls suggest whoever this "we" is doesn't mean it.

[paraphrase] In the 80s, women were getting 50% of the degrees, but that wasn't enough! Today they have more and more.

But there's a gap somewhere if you redefine terms!

[paraphrase]In countries where women have more choice, they often choose less ambitious goals.

What? You mean in countries where ambition is a necessity due to being impoverished women are more ambitious, and countries where they can do what they want they aren't?

Well, clearly the more patriarchal countries are to blame for...making...those...women...more...ambitious.

Wait.

TheArtofXan · 2012-02-14T18:19:13+00:00

we have equality nowhere.

How can anyone have a rational discussion when they undermine whatever good points they have by mixing them in with gross hyperbole? She creates a rift between herself and the people she needs to reach, and creates confrontation instead of finding common ground and compromise.

Darkling5499 · 2012-02-14T17:43:00+00:00

i was tempted to stop watching once i heard "we have equality nowhere".

"we say we want to educate our girls as much as our boys, but we don't mean it" - i guess the fact that women are more likely to graduate (both high school and college) is just a random coincidence?

Yes, keep blaming men for keeping the poor woman down. It's clearly the evil menz fault for woman not wanting to put in the effort to become a CEO.

Bossy? Boy's are dicks / assholes. Women are just being empowered.

I would really, really loooove to see the studies / information she was citing throughout this tirade against men. I really would.

carchamp1 · 2012-02-14T15:29:42+00:00

So before I clicked on the link I thought, finally a woman is going to admit that most women simply have no interest in climbing the corporate ladder. It is women's choices that is causing the pay gap. The responsibility lies with women.

How stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid of me!

Of course it's the patriarchy's fault. That is, it's men's fault. This is one of the hallmarks of feminism. NEVER take responsibility for your own actions. Blame whatever ills you on men.

I'll give credit where credit is due. We need equity in our paternity/maternity leave.

memorimorti · 2012-02-14T19:17:47+00:00

i do think this post is in the wrong section but its very interesting. aside from the "we have equality nowhere" comment, i dont see much wrong with what she's saying. now before everyone starts attacking me for agreeing with her let me just say don't confuse my opinions with believing that women get the ultimate short end of the stick in developed nations and we're tyrannized by men - because i know, as you know that this is far from true. i dont think that "equality" means having complete parity in every workforce but she has a really good point when it comes to the ambition thing. things have come along way from when women were only expected to get married and have kids but one thing hasn't changed and it may never change - men are more competitive. this may or may not be a biological thing but they've done studies that prove that when competing with another person where gender is undiclosed, women tend to be more competitive. this is the same with race. but when the genders disclosed to the competitors, women repeatedly score less - due to not being as competitive against a man. we see it al the time, slogans, media, tshirts that say stuff like "im too pretty to do math", and "who needs a brain when you've got these". from an early age i used to be complimented on "oh shes so pretty! shes gonna be a beautiful woman" and my brothers all complimented only AFTER they actually speak/greet people and others saying stuff like "he's such an intelligent boy! you really do raise your kids well!" even now that i'm 19 years old I still get these compliments. men compete against each other for success and power, women compete against each other with beauty. its not necessarily all biological, although it may have something to do with it, but i'm willing to bet that if we taught our children differently things may change. i know that despite all the other people, family members, even my own mother teaching me that my looks will get me far in life, my father (who is Atheist and very liberal-minded) always taught me to dress nicely because it helps charm people but never forget that to be successful i have to strive to be the best. thats one thing that most parents don't teach their daughters - its not only about doing WELL, its about teaching them to BE THE BEST.

Title	Sheryl Sandberg, COO of Facebook, sees "ambition gap" for women.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	19
Comments	62
Date	February 14, 2012 10:35 AM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/poxzl/sheryl_sandberg_coo_of_facebook_sees_ambition_gap/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/sheryl-sandberg-coo-of-facebook-sees-ambition-gap.1027695 https://theredarchive.com/post/1027695

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