What happens if the only people who will work with us are on the right and the left excludes us for "being fascists"?

insane_gravy · 2020-12-04T06:38:31+00:00

Oh hell no. I'm a lefty specifically because I reject the right's framing on just about everything. I'm not about about to play that "enemy of my enemy" shit. We're perfectly fine over here without playing nice with the fascists, thank you very much.

OkLetterhead10 · 2020-12-03T17:35:08+00:00

Men's rights advocates should create groups to pressure all parties to support men's rights issues. when more and more people are aware of the issues it won't be easy to dismiss us as fascists .

Blauwpetje · 2020-12-03T15:07:15+00:00

what kind "alliances" are you talking about lol. I think you're vastly over estiming our effect in the movement of the culture. People who spend too much online treat all this left right stuff as if it's an actual war going on. Don't fall into that trap. Just be firm and believe what you believe.

a-man-from-earth · 2020-12-04T02:23:45+00:00

I think pragmatic alliances to achieve specific legal reforms are necessary. But choose your battles.

DevilComeKnockin · 2020-12-08T01:19:50+00:00

I hate to tell you this, but every person on this reddit is already considered Alt-Right by the fundamentalist left. Let me tell you a story...

I was raised southern-fried baptist in the 80's, during the Cold War, the AIDS epidemic, and days of televangelism. There was a very big moral panic going on (the Satanic Panic) during which ALL the worlds ills were blamed on anyone who the Religious Right didn't agree with. I suffered greatly under this paradigm because I was autistic and (unknowingly) bi-sexual, and therefore (in the eyes of everybody) too weird to be Straight. Because I got tard-shamed and gay-bashed alot, I identified with politics of the downtrodden (liberal democrats); largely because of my feelings on organized labor, Martin Luther King Jr, and freedom of religion. Once I hit 18, I left the redneck shithole and went to college in the city. There I was free to do as I pleased.

Fast-forward 27 years, and I moved back to that redneck shithole because it's the only place I feel safe.

I've been booted out of an autistic support group for toxic masculinity, chased out of a bi/trans support group for addressing male suicide, been shouted-down and blocked by an esteemed trans-activist for bringing up my own sexual abuse at the hands of women and finally, labeled a NiceGuy by a longtime feminist ally when I dared complain about this shit.

The reason why, is that the left-wing polity of America has fully absorbed fundamentalist feminism, and has largely adopted fundamentalist traits. The biggest signifier of which is "With us or against us"-style gatekeeping. And similar to the Satanic Panic of the 80's, ANYTHING which is not explicitly supportive of the movement's dogma (in this case, feminism) is automatically judged to be an enemy of that dogma (implicit Patriarchy).

Anybody... absolutely ANYBODY, who isn't out waving the feminist banner and ranting about patriarchal oppression is already considered a demonic, white-supremecist, ableist, sexist, fascist, whatever-ist... Including:

YOU.

What I can tell you though, is that my redneck town is vastly more open-minded now than it used to be. And so is the Republican party. Brandon Straka, a very openly gay man, was invited to attend the RNC. The #Walkaway movement is filled with gay, black, lesbian, latino and every other kind of person you would expect to be a life-long Liberal. There was even a "coming out" (as Republican) video from a Trans-woman on the facebook page the other day.

Ultimately, the Boomers who were so virulently anti-everything in years past are dying off, and the conservative party is being taken over by younger people of drastically more liberal mindset. And they welcome folks like us.

So yeah... make the alliances.

Blauwpetje · 2020-12-03T15:14:47+00:00

I see the problem very well. Actually the vast majority of society isn't feminist, but the vast majority of the left is. So, to beat feminism it looks ridiculous to keep working within the left and hoping something will change there, instead of looking for allies elsewhere. Also, personally my 'leftism' is no longer something sacred or cast in concrete. The biggest problem is: many people don't agree with feminism, but aren't really interested in opposing it either. Some right-wing populists are more fanatical, but being in cahoots with them will only make it harder to make men's issues acceptable even to moderate leftists. Best would be if it were an acceptable movement, not especially left or right, that many people could join, just because they believe men's issues should be addressed.

czerdec · 2020-12-06T23:14:27+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Skirt_Douglas · 2020-12-03T16:35:36+00:00

I don’t agree that I want the same things as right wingers. I often feel like the right wing motivation for men’s rights has more to do with maintaining tradition, holding on to power, and stopping feminism. I signed up to help men first and foremost, not preserve the status quo, not to fight against woman’s issues.

helloiseeyou2020 · 2020-12-03T18:23:42+00:00

Yeah nah Im good on ignoring climate change, attacking abortion rights, for profit prisons, for profit healthcare if you can get any at all, poorly funded public schools, incarceration for non violent drug users, muzzled scientists, widespread class immobility, unchecked police violence, pointless war, and the military-industrial complex.

Biden appointing a bunch of women to cabinet etc does not affect you at all, youre just turning the apex fallacy right back around after we have rightly shit on it for years. If you'd shit on all of the above for some meager token of phony acknowledgment, you are not left wing at all.

Real change for men is only ever going to come from the courtroom anyway. Right wing parties may not say mean things about men, but theyre the force that has incarcerated multiple generations of them

TintelFroot · 2020-12-03T14:43:07+00:00

No, we’re here I assume because we are all left leaning and the right has to many fundamental ideas I disagree with that I just can’t ally with them.

hendrixski · 2020-12-06T13:04:10+00:00

The right is mostly white women who think that Trump won the election, Covid is a hoax, and that black lives don't matter.

The left has most of the college educated people.

Choice is pretty clear who I want to work with.

liztu_june · 2020-12-07T21:23:11+00:00

Most of the toxic views many feminist have about men evangelicals have to. I think feminism as a movement will split into a pro man left wing and anti man right wing. The same thing will happen to the mra movement.

liztu_june · 2020-12-09T16:18:03+00:00

Yes but what is socialism and communism. I will only accept the definition used by socialist and communist.

Billy-Batdorf · 2020-12-04T04:38:44+00:00

You're know what you're being offered in return for listening to the left shame you as a 'reactionary', 'fascist', 'nazi', 'misogynist', etc.? Nothing. You're not being offered any sort of platform, help, or 'voice' unless you want to join Menslib and blame yourself and your biology for a series of structured policies choices that don't benefit you as a Man.

Stick to the issues you care about.

Xemnas81 · 2020-12-04T15:38:47+00:00

I won't join or rather I'm done doing that approach, cos this isn't a hypothetical, AVFM and HBR did precisely this already, to a lesser extent Women Against Feminism (any other big MR networks I've ignored?) Brian Martinez just declared leftist MRAs will be an issue moving forward. Defending Trump as an MRA ally, what did it do for us? This is not hypothetical. And we will be used by either group like the neocons and Ancaps used us through antiSJWtube funding.

Aarya1324 · 2020-12-04T18:09:19+00:00

I think the right are good people, they just have diffrent goals for society :)

Title	What happens if the only people who will work with us are on the right and the left excludes us for "being fascists"?
Author	czerdec
Upvotes	19
Comments	91
Date	December 3, 2020 11:50 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/k5vsn3/what_happens_if_the_only_people_who_will_work/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/what-happens-if-the-only-people-who-will-work-with.1062401 https://theredarchive.com/post/1062401

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