Subtle demonization of straight male sexualities on /r/MensLib

mewacketergi · 2020-01-08T00:24:55+00:00

I participated in this thread, but more than half of my comments did not get greenlit by the omniscient and omnipresent moderators of /r/MensLib. I had forgotten how stifling and suffocating that subreddit could feel. To be frank, I was somewhat pleasantly surprised that even some of my more mildly critical comments got greenlit.

Anyway, the premise of the thread is centered around OP’s experience of sexuality. Specifically, OP identifies as a grey asexual. What this means for OP seems to be that while OP does have a sex drive, it isn’t necessarily directed at any person in particular. Also, OP says he is able to feel sexual attraction, but it doesn’t seem to be particularly compelling to him in any way.

First of all, I think it’s very important that we as men can have open discussions about how each of us experiences sexuality. I think it's absolutely wrong to tell asexual men that they are somehow weird, abnormal, strange, defective etc. in their masculinity just for experiencing sexuality differently than many other men. I empathize with OP in that he feels alienated and misunderstood by others because of the way he experiences his sexuality.

However, the post takes a nasty turn. OP suggests that, rather than him being abnormal, he is in fact the normal one, and it's the average straight men who is abnormal.

But, idk, the more toxic masculinity I see, the more women I hear venting about creepy dudes being way too aggressively sexual, the more I start to feel that, you know, maybe I’m not so much an oddity for being grey-sexual as I am just a normal dude who’s disillusioned to more traits of toxic masculinity. I know it sounds extremely egotistical for me to say, and I don’t mean to come across like “ah yes I am the one man who treats women right” or anything. But damn, idk, I can’t help but think that this idea that men are inherently sexually driven creatures who always have to think with their dicks, who are incapable of reading signs of attraction and just need to fire full blast at the nearest person they’re attracted to... it’s all whack bullshit. Maybe my abnormal view on sex isn’t really that abnormal, maybe it’s just a result of me realizing how wrong I was for thinking that was what men were inherently like and adjusting my own behaviour accordingly. Maybe my abnormal view of sexuality should be the normal view.

I hate how up-my-own-ass it sounds, but I’m still left wondering if I’m really grey-sexual, or if I’m just one of they few men who has a more healthy view on the whole topic.

A couple of things:

I think he is right to object to his personal experience of sexuality being called "abnormal". Although one could say that "abnormal" does not necessarily really carry a value judgement, and might just refer to something being relatively infrequent compared to a more prevalent alternative, it does often carry a connotation of "deviant", "weird", "unhealthy", "defective". Asexuality is really no weirder or stranger than your "average" straight male sexuality (if that even exists).
However, he then conflates the worst expressions of male desire (such as catcalling etc.) with the average man's sexuality, as he muses if he might just be one of the few men with a healthy view of sexuality.
Further down in the thread, it becomes clear that OP's beef is not just with things like catcalling, but also with the terrible crime of gasp thinking sexual thoughts about people who might not reciprocate those feelings or who you might not know well enough:

But, going a bit further, can we say whether or not it’s healthy to actively think about someone in a sexual light when they’ve clearly expressed a lack of interest, even if those thoughts aren’t ever directly expressed? What about thinking about fucking someone you’ve just met?

Can we really say it’s healthy to immediately imagine sex with someone upon meeting them? Isn’t that at least a little indicative of some inherent toxic traits, immediately perceiving that other party as a sexual object?

This man clearly has never witnessed a female friend or acquaintance thirst over Robert Pattinson or that shirtless werewolf guy from Twilight. Clearly these women have internalized toxic masculinity

Also, having sexual thoughts about someone =/= thinking of that person as an object, but I digress

What I find highly ironic is that OP is imposing his own experience of sexuality on others as some kind of moral authority. He probably has had to deal with people being dismissive of him for experiencing sexuality differently. Maybe this explains his reaction (if people call you weird, then it is tempting to say "no, you are the weird one") but I still think he's being a bit arrogant and condescending in this thread.

Finally, he says himself that his sex drive isn't directed at anyone in particular, and it's not felt in the form of a compelling desire. But for many of us "allosexuals", it is directed at specific people and strongly felt, which makes it so that we might sometimes experience sexuality in ways that OP finds toxic and also conveniently does not experience himself (such as rubbing one out under the shower while thinking about Jessica Alba without first tracking her down and asking her to sign a consent form to appear in our sexual fantasies). But OP is so far into the nurture hypothesis that he suspects it's all just a bunch of societal brainwashing that has made every man besides himself a boner-chasing troglodyte. Indeed, somewhere he says that "deep down, everyone’s pansexual." On what basis? Fuck if I know.

Anyway, I'd have preferred to keep this on /r/MensLib , but the mods there just delete anything that isn't self-flagellating enough for their taste. I posted 10 replies (all of them civil) and 6 of them got deleted, probably because in some of them I said something to the effect of "yeah mate, you are being a bit condescending and holier-than-thou here" .

Oncefa2 · 2020-01-08T00:54:33+00:00

I think it's a way for him to feel special. You see this kind of attitude from lots of niche groups that are based on people's self-identity. It's probably what happens when narcissism interacts with having something "special" about you.

Arthritic people think they can predict the weather. Aspie people think they're too smart for their own good. Schizophrenics think they're basically shamen. And tall people can't shut up about how bring tall is actually a bad thing.

In limited amounts there's nothing wrong with this. I'm sure it helps people cope and maybe there's some truth to it here or there. But you have to be really self-centered and unaware to think that your experience is what's normal, and everyone else is wrong.

ur_waifus_prolapse · 2020-01-08T00:30:44+00:00

Not subtle at all. If you've spent any amount of time in male feminist spaces, you will see tons of men who cuck themselves out of their orientation because they've read way too many radfem books. This is often combined with an almost comical idealisation of female sexuality. Look up Scott Aaronson for a writeup from a guy who's since left the cult. After some interactions with women it's trivial to notice women are also sexual beasts. Hell, you don't even need to interact. Just read what they say about their favourite romance novels.

The reason menslibbers aren't allies isn't because we disagree. It's because these attitudes are almost always due to insecurity and specifically self-hatred, not ideology. If you prod these people even slightly and just let them talk, you'll notice they are unwell and could use some self-esteem. The rationalisations they come up with are taken seriously and reinforced; nobody suggests OP needs to take a break, maybe work on himself, and try to examine why he presupposes male sexuality to be problematic. What's the fucking point of claiming to help men if you reinforce dysfunctional thinking?

Aaod · 2020-01-08T00:13:10+00:00

Yikes just how much self hatred do you have to have to beat yourself like I see the people doing in that thread? Internalized misandry much?

Melthengylf · 2020-01-08T15:24:10+00:00

Yeahh, I saw that post and told to myself OMG. This is what is wrong with menslib. I obviously have no problem with op being greysexual. But "Maybe my abnormal view of sexuality should be the normal view", like, really?

Just to be clear, I believe the greysexual dude to act in a completely normal way "I'm not abnormal, you are.", but as always, the sub norms are enforced so it is clear that he is right and we are all abnormal except the select holy monks.

fish_hound · 2020-01-15T01:49:08+00:00

/menslib is basically a hate sub at this point. Everytime I go there I just want to blow my brains out. The mods are toxic and have no interests in actually helping men out.

Title	Subtle demonization of straight male sexualities on /r/MensLib
Author	HashtagMenAreCash
Upvotes	39
Comments	44
Date	January 7, 2020 11:42 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/eljyvb/subtle_demonization_of_straight_male_sexualities/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/subtle-demonization-of-straight-male-sexualities.1064200 https://theredarchive.com/post/1064200

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