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Griet Vandermassen wrote about the Plymouth shooting!

Blauwpetje

September 2, 2021

21 upvotes

I hope the few visitors of this sub who don't know Dutch can put a translation program on it. It is a splendid article and De Standaard is quite a big and respected Flemish paper. Where other MSM confine themselves to the question whether incels should be called terrorists, or about 'educating' boys at school to 'respect' girls, she really addresses the problems in the dating market. I flatter myself with the idea I might have given the author some tips, but essentially this very good column is her achievement.

https://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20210831_97712915?&articlehash=CAJn4qW76slc7wa2SuAuLviSMwQ%2FmwOCDIq79JoowYtKpJDjnxaxKp0hDw0MY7r6qvhlrc1kjyIl8HVEJZmVXaDX%2F%2BrMmGl5%2FfDZI9vN3N6rtICcc5OtBv6iBbtwOwN4Ab1BNa7%2FLjsZ0LcnOYrlHtNFSg8AThtVfS%2Fo2sZ1Ar7lRJDMcmJzqPAigWWaDn0VcISre6RlXCDTO5vb3rCEZE7jqQDhOZhtgTsnG9wobyNEB5%2BSVWo%2FuQmSStUdU%2FNwrM6uTvAYa0IfiG8xDDAXDh%2BypZ6VdwvTeZsLzo5GbRqo6TftzuyKjD0f1BWZ340cBUj1dv27%2BY8amnwvNtT2%2Bg%3D%3D

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Post Information

Title	Griet Vandermassen wrote about the Plymouth shooting!
Author	Blauwpetje
Upvotes	21
Comments	21
Date	September 2, 2021 5:32 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/pgmlu6/griet_vandermassen_wrote_about_the_plymouth/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/griet-vandermassen-wrote-about-the-plymouth.1067252 https://theredarchive.com/post/1067252

Comments

[–]Deadlocked02 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Blauwpetjevalued LWMA contributor[S] 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwra_coolname209 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Deadlocked02 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

It’s as she says. The dynamics of heterosexual relationships continue to be dictated by hypergamy, which is even more jarring and contradictory in a time of relaxation of the female gender role. And I noticed how permeated these expectations were in the majority of the relationship of those who were close to me and in society in general even when I still considered myself a feminist. And the emotional tool these expectations have on men, specially those who fail to conform to the rigidity of their gender roles.

The whole thing is simply the antithesis of everything that’s taught in more progressive circles. That men and only men are the problem and those who fail to find a partner do so because of their high standards. The ever present image of the overweight nerd with Doritos finger who lives in his mother’s basement and who won’t settle for anything other than a red haired Instagram model is simply another scapegoat to blame men and men alone for their loneliness. And I think being an “outsider” helped me realize some acceptable and naturalized dynamics in certain relationships that simply didn’t sit well with me. And to actually see all that backed up by data is heartbreaking, but at the same time reassuring, because it means I wasn’t simply imagining things.

Just to be clear, I don’t think it’s wrong to aim for someone of similar financial, aesthetic or educational level as you when it comes to dating. I just don’t believe it’s healthy for any of the parties involved when society encourages one group to hold another to a much higher standard while not offering the same in return.

[–]problem_redditorright-wing guest 13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm another non-straight guy who isn't attracted to women and who's a complete outsider to heterosexual dating and yet I've noticed massive problems with it in general as well.

It’s as she says. The dynamics of heterosexual relationships continue to be dictated by hypergamy, which is even more jarring and contradictory in a time of relaxation of the female gender role.

The worst thing is that the consequences of that same hypergamy which leads successful women to have a lower chance of marrying at all due to their desire to find someone with even higher social and economic status as them, and leads unsuccessful men to have a hard (or almost impossible) time finding a partner, is portrayed as entirely being men's fault. It's not that women have unrealistic expectations for who they choose to partner up with, it's that men are intimidated by, as opposed to attracted to, strong women and their egos just can't take it.

I think we already see evidence contradicting that idea. IIRC there was a study which showed men are not influenced by women's level of success (can't find it now due to being outside but I will put in the link later). Also, I also can't help thinking about Lady Dimitrescu (AKA Big Titty Vampire Lady) from Resident Evil 8 and how the fact she was intimidating contributed to, rather than took away from, people's sheer thirst for her.

Meanwhile, they'll complain about sexual objectification of women and unrealistic beauty standards for women and how men impose it on them. But imagine if you made the flip side of their argument. "Women are too vain to pick a partner more attractive than them, and that's why unattractive women have a harder time having success in dating than their attractive counterparts do.” I think if anyone said that, you would be able to hear the screeching from orbit.

According to the mainstream narrative, the sexual expectations placed by men on women are oppressive and should be abolished. Meanwhile, the far more stringent financial and status-based expectations placed by women on men... well, they're actually things that men inflict on women, victimising them even further! Everything is always men's fault, and nothing at all is dictated by women, and women only choose partners based on personality unlike these shallow men, and as long as a man is a decent person he can find a woman. Also, don't expect women to flock to you simply because you're nice to them, ew. Do you think that's how attraction works? Sex-crazed nice guy.

And that’s not even getting into the extreme and contradictory expectations placed on men during courtship which requires them to be nothing short of clairvoyant.

[–]Deadlocked02 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

The worst thing is that the consequences of that same hypergamy which leads successful women to have a lower chance of marrying at all due to their desire to find someone with even higher social and economic status as them

That’s what’s funny. Not even women appear to be happy with the current state of affairs, which is another reason to shed light on the problem. If a woman is financially independent and proud to be so, why can’t she settle for a man who earns as much or even less than she does? Men settle all the time. What is the better option? Staying alone even when you’re capable of finding someone who genuinely loves you just because it isn’t 100% how you pictured things would be?

and leads unsuccessful men to have a harder time finding a partner, is portrayed as entirely being men's fault. It's not that women have unrealistic expectations for who they choose to partner up with, it's that men are intimidated by, as opposed to attracted to, strong women and their egos just can't take it.

Oh, yeah. I’ve seen this argument so, so many times. They always find a way to blame men and men alone.

I think we already see evidence contradicting that idea. IIRC there was a study which showed men are not influenced by women's level of success (can't find it now due to being outside but I will put in the link later). Also, I also can't help thinking about Lady Dimitrescu (AKA Big Titty Vampire Lady) from Resident Evil 8 and how the fact she was intimidating contributed to people's sheer thirst for her.

Yeah, I’ve already seen the study before. If I’m not mistaken, someone linked or mentioned it when that study about successful women being less likely to find a partner was posted on the r/ science sub. And about Lady Dimitrescu, it’s funny how she disproves the argument that men find tall women unattractive.

Meanwhile, they'll complain about sexual objectification of women and unrealistic beauty standards for women and how men impose it on them while ignoring how you can easily make the flip side of their argument.

I mean, this is my biased opinion, but most arguments I see about “unrealistic beauty standards” for women are ludicrous. If they wanted to complain about sexualization, I would be more onboard, but unrealistic body standards? That’s just because they like to ignore what’s bad for men and focus on what’s bad for women. A “physically attractive woman” is a much more diverse concept than a “physically attractive man”. I’m not attracted to women and even I can see such an obvious reality. I mean, compare the bodies of conventionally attractive Hollywood actors with the bodies of conventionally attractive Hollywood actresses. How on Earth are their bodies more realistic when compared to the average man than the actresses’ bodies compared to the average woman? How on Earth is a diet to control your weight worse than also being on a diet to control your weight, having to wake up 3 hours earlier to exercise and still being pumped full of steroids? Imagine the outrage if we were depriving actresses of water so they could dehydrate in order to shoot shirtless scenes for the male audience, just like male actors have to? Even if you look at professional pornography, really… Like, yeah, the actress had a boob job? Well, the actor has genitals bigger than 99% of the male population and have to use performance-enhancing drugs, so what’s their point here? Women absolutely do not have a monopoly on unrealistic beauty standards.

And that’s not to mention the researches showing that men tend to rate women better for their looks than the other way around. Some people apparently equate the fact that men are, on average, more responsive to visual stimuli to men having high standards, which isn’t really the case.

And that’s not even getting into the extreme and contradictory expectations placed on men during courtship which requires them to be nothing short of clairvoyant.

And they’re also expected to be mind readers once engaged in a relationship, which is something that always made me extremely uncomfortable in most relationships I’ve seen, the sheer lack of communication. Failed mind reading followed by silence treatment. And feminists complain about emotional labor.

[–]outlet_135 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Deadlocked02 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not necessarily. Romcom is just one of many genres. And while it is true that male characters have bodies like that in many productions aimed at men, they also have in many productions aimed at female or that have a considerable female audience. I mean, the Twilight saga made billions and one of its biggest appeals were Taylor Lautner’s shirtless scenes. Just look at any teen show developed by Netflix or CW and their gratuitous shirtless/nudity scenes with male actors. Netflix always conveniently puts shirtless guys in the posters of several of their movies.

Even when it’s a pretty well distributed audience by gender, like Marvel movies. When they ask Chris Hemsworth to do a shirtless scene, it’s for the female audience obviously. My point is, women can be just as responsive as men to visual stimuli and Hollywood already capitalizes that (all that while female sexy scenes to pander to the male audience are each time more discouraged, btw).

Edit: alternatively, you can also go to the corny section of any bookstore and you’ll see a myriad of hunks illustrating the romantic books.

[–]Steyrox 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]No_Divide3403 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]goddamn_I-Q_of_160 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Juststopwantingit 20 points21 points22 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Last month, 22-year-old Jake Davison shot and killed five people in Plymouth, England. Then he killed himself. It was the worst shooting in the UK in over a decade (DS 14 August). Online posts by the perpetrator show an unstable young man gripped by despair and hatred: self-loathing for his sexual unattractiveness, hatred for the unreachable opposite sex, bitterness at the life that he said had defeated him.

Could Davison, and thus his five innocent victims, have been saved? He struggled with many issues, including social isolation and depression. The first thing he needed was mental help. The second was a girlfriend. Davison frequented forums of the "incel" community, the online subculture of involuntary celibates or men who can't have sex. In its innocent ramifications, incels support each other, in the darker corners they lose themselves in heavily misogynistic talk or incite violence against women. It is unclear whether Davison got inspiration for his act of desperation there. But apparently he became firmly convinced that he would be alone forever.

Instead of 'act of desperation' I could also write 'act of terror'. That assumes a political motivation behind the shooting incident. Some experts argue in favor of approaching the incel community in this way: as a movement that poses a terrorist threat. With hundreds of thousands of men active on those forums, we urgently need to mobilize our counter-terrorism resources, they believe. Incel-related violence has already claimed several lives, including the ten people, mostly women, who were mowed off the road in 2018 by the 'Toronto killer'. It is a dangerous ideology.

That potential for terror exists. But if incels are really that numerous, we can safely conclude that most of them are not intent on slaughter. Otherwise we would have had more on our plate. By unilaterally portraying them as evil misogynists, as is common practice, you risk creating misogyny. You trivialize their real problem that they don't meet the high feminine demands for a sexual or romantic partner. Incels owe their plight not just to themselves, but also to female sexual selectivity and tendency to hypergamy or 'marry higher up'.

Certainly the latter confronts a growing number of men with a relational obstacle. Study after study shows that women want a partner who is at least as well educated as they are, and preferably higher. For example, Ghent research found that more than nine out of ten women on Tinder preferred a man with a master's degree over one with a bachelor's degree. At the same time, women are increasingly surpassing men in terms of education level. Consequently, the pool of attractive men shrinks. According to some researchers, this is partly at the root of the declining number of marriages in the US. There is a gap between what women want and what men have to offer. Women are also victims of this. Not because they, like men, are found to be unmarriageable, but because of their demandingness.

It doesn't necessarily mean less sex for women. On dating apps, they aim for the 20 percent most attractive men, while men are open to 80 percent of the women. So most women can have sex if they want it. A large group of men, on the other hand, remains on dry seed. The number of American males in their twenties who go through life without sex has tripled in the past decade. Among women in their twenties, the increase is only 8 percent.

We're covering up other forms of sexual asymmetry because they don't fit the gender equality picture. American research shows that more than 90 percent of women want a man to take the first romantic step. Nearly 80 percent think he should pay on a first date. Combine those expectations with the female pickiness and the increasing demonization of male sexuality, and you get a sense of the ordeal dating must be for many men. Sexual rejection affects them much more often than women. "Dating women as men was a lesson in feminine power," writes lesbian journalist Norah Vincent about the year and a half that she disguised herself as a man. “I saw my own gender from the other side and for a while I irrationally disliked women. I was horrified by their superiority, their right to choose me or reject me in a snap, something they did so casually that it made my defeats and even my successes unbearably humiliating.”

In contrast to the caricature of incels as patriarchal men who believe they have a right to sex, there is a much more complex reality. Most deserve empathy, rather than scorn.

[–]ElementalChicken 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Steyrox 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]OldEgalitarianMRA 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Mustbeaight 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Steyrox 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Blauwpetjevalued LWMA contributor[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BloomingBrains 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Blauwpetjevalued LWMA contributor[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link