Is it possible to be a MRA and also a feminist?

manicraccoon · 2021-11-04T10:07:21+00:00

Ideologically it is possible. In practice I think it would be difficult. Since the current core of feminism is that men are privileged and they are the cause of all the suffering. Personally I support Men's Rights and anti-feminist. Though I won't condone injustice done to women either. So in short my stance is for equality, regardless of gender. As for being an anti-feminist. I think feminism has turned into a malignant tumor that needs to be cut off ASAP.

EsraYmssik · 2021-11-04T11:23:20+00:00

Bluntly, no.

Firstly MRM is NOT an ideology. There are no grand theories, no simple slogans you can point to and say, "that's it."

Second, feminism DOES have grand throries, theories that centre men as the source of all evil.

One cannot be a feminist without accepting some form of Patriarchy Theory, the idea that society is organised as a system whereby MEN (all men, and only men) exercise power by oppressing WOMEN (all women, and ONLY women).

Frex, Andrea Dworkin :

"Being female in this world means having been robbed of the potential for human choice by men who love to hate us. "

This is nonsense.

Even if it were true that only men ever held power, they have never wielded that powerr to benefit all men. Conversly, whenever women have held power they have never acted to benefit ALL women.

'We', as much as we are a 'we', generally see society as having given the sexes different rights and responsibilities. One you'll hear a lot is how women 'had to' stay at home. Sounds terrible, until you realise that men 'had to' leave to put their lives at risk to protect their societies.

Thirdly, we look at facts like the death gap. One always hears how women earn 78c for every $1 a man earns, even though that statistic has been debunked over and over. Yet one rarely hears that:

for every 1 woman who dies in combat, 99 men die in combat
for every 1 woman who dies at work, 19 men die at work
for every 1 woman who commits suicide, 4 men kill themselves
for every 1 woman who is a victim of violence, 2 men are victims
for every 1 woman who is homeless, 2 men are homeless
for every 1 woman who is beaten by their partner, 1 man is abused by theirs
for every 1 woman who is raped, at least 1 man is raped
bodily integrity is enshrined in law, for girls, but not for boys

Feminism actively works to suppress these statistics: https://www.mindingthecampus.org/2016/05/18/the-falsity-of-domestic-violence/ frex.

tl;dr, you cannot both subscribe to feminism AND the view that everybody suffers problems and sometimes men get the shitty end of the stick.

SsoulBlade · 2021-11-04T10:48:59+00:00

You'd be an egalitarian... Assuming you don't shit on the other sex.

AriaBellaPancake · 2021-11-04T13:09:58+00:00

I would say so, but the thing is that a lot of folks that could call themselves both MRA and Feminist have decided to dissociate themselves from feminism.

I'm an example of that. I considered myself a feminist for a long long time, but a lot of the cause radicalized. Nowadays, liberal and radical sects of feminism are incredibly similar, with the main division being trans people.

A hyper focus on implicating men as a whole as the cause of problems, a refusal to engage with class based criticism that includes disabled and poor men as victims of an unjust system, considering using the right words to be activism rather than than actions, and an anti-sex and porn attitude (this is more recent in liberal spaces, but they're swinging back around from sex positivity). Heck, on the liberal side that supposedly cares about trans people, they're absolutely awful about trans men.

As a woman that cares for and empathizes with men and recognizes the variety of factors that can make life difficult for everyone, I pretty easily get treated as "the enemy" by most varieties of feminists.

I opted out of calling myself a feminist because anyone that seriously identifies with the term seems to basically hate me because my ideal of equality is well... Actual equality? I've been burned by, manipulated, and recieved hate from so many feminists.

And I'm not even right wing! I've been accused of being a socialist by right wingers (though I disagree). And heck, I still get called a feminist when interacting with certain communities, but I can't really call myself such when they won't have me? Lol

Idk if this term is used in the same way as it was a few years back, but I recall a lot of people calling themselves egalitarian, not feminist. Which I think suits the idea of supporting feminism and men's rights pretty well.

Lui_Le_Diamond · 2021-11-04T09:34:05+00:00

That's called being egalitarian

JohntuDoetu · 2021-11-04T11:50:31+00:00

Here is my humble opinion -

MRAs advocates those, whose basic human rights have been denied just because they are men. They are not against women or feminism or anything for that matter. They just want justice for men whose basic human rights have been denied on gender grounds. For example most of the time child custody goes to the mother because the mother is woman and therefore would most probably be the right option, completely ignoring that the father could be the better option. I have seen a lot of cases where both the parents are very good parents but during custody child goes to mom. I have seen both parents are bad parent and there too the child goes to mom. MRA is against this type of gender bias. There are many more issues that men suffer. I just gave you one example. Basically MRA want equality for men.

Feminists advocates woman's rights. Which is fundamentally flawed. Because there are no women's right and there are no men's right. There are human rights. There are laws. Laws are made for humans, it is not made for men or women separately. If there is a law that is made for a selective group, be it men or women, should be immediately removed on humanitarian grounds. This is the reason suffrage movement started, women previously were denied the right to vote. This was discriminatory towards women and therefore women protested, and the law had to bow down to women. Because it is the right thing to do. But in modern times however, when women and men have same rights in the society, this type of protests doesn't make any sense. Feminism at this point just want privileges for women that even men don't have. It has become a man-hating community in the process. They don't want equality, they want to dance in the chest of men and then blame it on men when they fall down. For example - Feminists complain that the top 1% of the richest people is 99% men and they want equality there. However they completely ignore that the bottom 1% of the poorest people is 99% male and they dont want equality here. Basically they dont want equality. They want selective privileges. They dont want female garbage collector, That is for men. They want female CEOs, That's definitely for women. Basically feminism at this point is very anti-men.

shortman162cm · 2021-11-04T08:08:18+00:00

it's like asking can u be a jew and a nazi at the same time

Longjumping-Back214 · 2021-11-04T09:17:30+00:00

No you cannot because genuinely it's like saying can I be a racist human and a man at the same time

Reddit1984Censorship · 2021-11-04T13:42:06+00:00

Feminism itself is against MRA, but you can be whatever you want.

dingoperson2 · 2021-11-04T17:57:38+00:00

Here's Feminism in Australia: https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/qlsy4o/australia_disciplinary_action_has_been_taken/

"If they had not been discriminated against, the CCC estimated about 200 more men would have been successful in their attempt to join the police service."

No problem at all, it's just a disposable blob of 200 men. Just a smaller blob than 500 or 1000 men.

Note that this wasn't one person's bad deed. It was an entire system of many, many staff acting together, convinced they were doing the right thing.

X_scissor · 2021-11-04T22:05:43+00:00

Feminist = an advocate for women's rights (definition has been twisted by people who have called themselves feminists that who even knows what the definition actually is any more, I just went by the google one)
MRA = an activist for men's rights

I could be wrong but I think it is as in comparatively to the other sex, in which case no it would not be possible.

Anyway so to clear your confusion, basically we believe that feminism does not genuinely promote equality, and especially that things that go against equality are done in the name of feminism. Honestly, like I said the definition has been fked and feminism is more of like a massive organisation - think like 'the church' especially in a historical kinda way - rather than an ideology. It's not just a US thing at all, feminism has massive power all over the globe - I'm not US myself.

It doesn't matter how 'extreme' something is. If it's right then it's right, if it's wrong then it's wrong.

Also don't just believe what we say or worse conform to us. Evaluate everything and I hope you will see the truth. Just remember what equality means: treated exactly the same. Be critical and see if feminists are really for that.

EricAllonde · 2021-11-05T00:30:17+00:00

I am Australian too and our feminists are no better than the US ones. For example:

Australian feminists have been trying to conjure up a fake rape epidemic on university campuses, when their own research revealed a rate of 1 rape per 45,200 students per year.

Why are they lying about it? They want the same kangaroo courts in our universities that US universities have, run according to feminist principles and where men are automatically guilty when accused by a woman.

Then there was the case of the Sydney man forced to endure a rape trial where the jury was not allowed to hear that the female accuser had made false accusations against men on 12 previous occasions and been prosecuted for 5 of them. Feminists forced through the rule that kept the jury in the dark. In fact the guy should never have been charged, let alone prosecuted, in the first place. Why was he? Because the crown prosecutor's office has learned to fear the political power of the feminist lobby, as they freely admitted in this case. They know that if they drop ANY rape prosecution against a man, no matter how clearly unfounded it is, the feminists will make their lives hell.

There are plenty such examples. Australian feminists are pursuing every terrible goal that US feminists are working on. All feminists are horrendous, including ours. Feminism is the biggest obstacle to true gender equality today.

HUZNAIN · 2021-11-04T07:50:23+00:00

i am an MRA and an Anti-Feminist and i 100% agree that You can. Keep in mind that MRM ≠ Anti-Feminism.

VestigialHead · 2021-11-04T07:36:56+00:00

I do not see how anyone could.

One seeks privilege and power for women and the other seeks privilege and power for men.

Disciple_Of_Cheesus · 2021-11-04T09:34:42+00:00

N to the O.

OwenWentFullMGTOW · 2021-11-04T15:35:32+00:00

Hell yes you can be MRA and a feminist. In fact, in my observation, most MRA's are feminists.

That's why I hold the MRA's in such contempt.

__pebble____ · 2021-11-04T15:58:22+00:00

If you’re fighting for true equality, it would just be called egalitarianism. If you’re trying to support both movements as they are now, no. MRA’s usually fight for men, try to include any and all men, and are happy to bring any women along for the ride(at least from what I’ve seen). Feminists work against men, exclude any and all women that don’t 100% agree with them, and only allow men that completely bend the knee(again, from what I’ve seen).

No-tailor-424 · 2021-11-04T19:54:46+00:00

No it’s impossible, the MRAs are inherently oppressive as it completely defies the idea that there is a patriarchy. The moment men own up and apologise to women is the moment we can make strives to improve lives for women. As it is the balance is heavily skewed in favour of men so there really no point in being an MRA, everyone should be a feminist

dbsoooz · 2021-11-04T08:21:21+00:00

You’d have to have strict views that don’t align with the narrative usually being pushed, so I don’t see them calling or considering you either of those things but doesn’t mean you can’t want good for both genders

mcove97 · 2021-11-04T10:25:38+00:00

Depends entirely on what you put into being a feminist. I definitely think it's possible to be a woman's rights activist and mens rights activist at the same time, as that's basically just being a human rights activist.

Some feminists view themselves as WRA who simply just want equality between the sexes, while some WRAs subscribe to the pile of garbage the ideology of feminism is built on.

Personally I consider myself a HRA. I will speak up for any human or group who faces injustice. Whetter you got a penis or vagina between your legs is irrelevant to me. Injustice is injustice, no matter who it is done too.

JazzPhobic · 2021-11-04T10:39:25+00:00

No, it is note. The core ideologies are exclusively opposites.

MRA cares about mens issues and the many ways they are exploited each day, whereas Feminism cares about "equality" via wanting all benefits without the consequences. One such benefit is said exploitation of men and one such consequence is the need of a legality to prevent it.

Someone used an example with race which is kinda close but not on point. To deliver an example on mx own, its like asking can you be both the wolf and the sheep. The wolf wants a good life with ripe hunting wherein the sheep doesn't want to be hunted. As such, they are universally opposites.

Right_Pepe · 2021-11-04T10:39:41+00:00

Kinda yes kinda no. You can support both ideas yet don't.

Almost like a centrist but it is near impossible to offically be one.

Huntsman077 · 2021-11-04T11:46:27+00:00

No the ideologies themselves are mutually exclusive until you get to the extreme of both sides. At the end of the day, people don’t want to be discriminated against because of their gender. The reason why there is so much anti-feminism is because a lot of our spoken feminists are straight up anti-men, and feminism solely focuses on women’s issues. But after looking at it there aren’t a lot more issues with men rn and talking about it is considered to be supporting the patriarchy, which by definition of the word doesn’t exist in most countries anymore.

MAVP1234 · 2021-11-04T12:12:31+00:00

No. Men’s rights activists fight for men’s rights. Feminists are cunts who hate men. You cannot be both.

N19864 · 2021-11-04T13:40:31+00:00

No. Also we have some anti-feminist Australians. The former Aussie Feminist Hero, Cassie Jaye, whom created the MRA documentary "The Red Pill" said it best:

"It wasn't learning about men's issues that made me part with feminism. It was actually learning about feminism that made me leave feminism."

They tried to cancel her, they banned the movie from certain theatres, they lied about her and the documentary, the media attacked her without an ounce of decency, feminist lecturers rallied their students against her and her supporters etc.

Watch this short interview clip and listen to the dishonest journalists: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIf8NmVK7aI

You can also find clips of students trying to stop a screening of the doc.

I think you can watch "The Red Pill" for free from Australia, but you may lose friends. She lost lots of friends because of the documentary. BTW she's not an MRA but she merely just left feminism as she saw it for what it is.

zeerust2000 · 2021-11-04T23:05:25+00:00

It depends which definition of feminism you choose. There are probably as many different definitions of feminism as there are feminists.

Harry_Teak · 2021-11-05T00:08:08+00:00

Being an MRA would only be like being a feminist if men already enjoyed an excess of rights and privileges and wanted more.

who_said_it_was_mE · 2021-11-05T00:49:42+00:00

As a feminist who advocates for men’s rights (because it’s inherent to my ideology) I would say yes. While I have seen many hateful MRAs who speak harshly against women and their rights, I’m sure you just want people to feel better and be treated equally.

It’s also true that there are feminists who speak harshly against men and their rights (hence he existence of this sub. But any hate and desire for less rights of the other sex (which unfortunately exists in both subs) seems to counter the actuality of the each ideology.

So in short. Yes and I encourage it.

daragmage6 · 2021-11-04T11:24:39+00:00

Depends it comes down to your definition of feminism. If you mean second wave feminism which truly advocates for equality. You most certainly can be a feminist and a mra.

But if we were to talk about the modern third wave feminism you most certainly cannot.

The modern feminism wants to blame men for all evils of the world and crashes all reasonable debate and brushes off the opposite side as sexist and misogynistic.

z770i1 · 2021-11-04T08:20:25+00:00

Title	Is it possible to be a MRA and also a feminist?
Author	possumpudding
Upvotes	42
Comments	151
Date	November 4, 2021 7:30 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/AntiFeminists
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/antifeminists/comments/qmfcvd/is_it_possible_to_be_a_mra_and_also_a_feminist/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/AntiFeminists/is-it-possible-to-be-a-mra-and-also-a-feminist.1080084 https://theredarchive.com/post/1080084

Comments