WAATGM is moving, whether you like it or not.

As a long-time moderator of WAATGM, I am disappointed to see most of the comments made in this thread and the response of some of the members in the sub.

To the members who don't get it yet:

Stop living in the fantasy land where Reddit means good and it is the moderators that are evil or dumb. You are just confusing convenience for good. Sure, there is no arguing that Reddit is convenient to most people, but remember that that is the very thing Reddit counts on and uses against people they do not agree with. They bet on you not moving to another platform, as rudimentary and imperfect as it may be, in the hopes that Reddit means good. Reddit only means good to Reddit. It chooses to de-platform everyone else based on PR coverage and the potential issues it might cause Reddit. Subs like r/theredpill or r/Whereareallthegoodmen are not going to get positive coverage in the media anytime soon and by the time media-people even begrudgingly acknowledge that there is a legitimate reason for the existence of subs like this one, most of them would have already been scrubbed from existence in Reddit. How many stories about de-platforming do you need to see before it gets into your head that censorship is not good and turning a blind eye to it does not work?

Let us leave aside the moral reasons and let us talk practically: Censorship is the internet equivalent of sweeping shit under the carpet. It does nothing to actually address the actual issue, which can only be accomplished by a civil conversation where both sides discuss respectfully and peacefully why they hold their viewpoints and how they can reach a middle ground that might be fair to both sides, and serves only to spend people that someone might disagree with. Discussions with an intent to learn and grow happens rarely in real life and even less in the internet. Companies like Reddit don't mind censorship because it gives them more power. People who tend to be authoritarian insist on censorship because it gives them an opportunity to grab power. People who are weak-minded insist on censorship because it makes it easier for them to ignore what is uncomfortable to them. Lazy people tolerate censorship because they don't want to be inconvenienced.

Platforms like Reddit should not have the power to choose who can or cannot say what. If they do, then they should be held accountable to everything that is said in their platform. Authority without responsibility (on the admin end) and responsibility without authority (on the moderator end) are not good for open online discussions. It has been the position of this sub that as egregious as FDS might be, it should be allowed to exist just for the fact that they should be free to express their opinions. But, the state of reddit is so bad that even FDS is moving off of reddit.

There is a reason why we have made the decision to make forums.red as the primary and to use Reddit as the backup. The foreground narrative has unfolded in front of our members and can be read in the announcements we have made over the last year. The links to most of those announcements were linked in the recent ones. All you have to do is to follow the links, read them and piece things together. On the background, as u/redpillschool has pointed out here, Reddit has ramped up its effort on censorship under the guise that it does not want to allow hate speech on its platform. It has started banning moderators in controversial subs for the slightest offense (this includes subs like TRP and ours). This background story can also be pieced together by reading through threads in subs like modsupport, reddit, redditsecurity etc.

Furthermore, there are some people who have argued along the lines of: "This sub isn't even banned, abandoning it is a bad move. A new sub will take its place if it ever dies or is banned. The name will change but the content will lead people back to it (on reddit)."

Has no one noticed what happened when mgtow was banned? r/mgtowban, a sub that was largely ineffective up until (and even now) Reddit decided to ban mgtow due to bad PR, claimed that scalp for itself and has taken it upon itself to report and get subs banned that they suspect are related to mgtow. This is how our sister sub WATGMA was temporarily banned a year ago before it was eventually unbanned after an appeal to Reddit admins. This story is documented here. We were lucky to have our sister sub unbanned last time, but frankly speaking, I do not think we might have the same luck next time.

We have nothing against offshoots of WAATGM. We recognize that this is not a brand and we do not own this "brand". You're welcome to open one and customize it to your liking, whether it is on Reddit or elsewhere. If you decide to open an offshoot of WAATGM in Reddit, remember that as soon as WAATGM is banned, you will be next. You might survive for a few more days, but Reddit will inevitably do what it wants to do and has already done. At least be smart about your ambition and have some pride. Why would you want to stay in a platform that does not want you there? You don't need to come to forums.red with us, but at the very least, go elsewhere where censorship is not an issue. Don't you understand the fundamental philosophy of the redpill (trp or mgtow or whatever flavor you identify with) is to have the ability and the will to walk away from a bad situation/girl/person etc? Regardless of how you identify yourself, if you have been frequenting this sub and have not understood that core concept yet, have you not been here as a consumer and have failed to gather the wisdom that is being passed on in the comment section of every thread? Why should anyone take you seriously? Why should we?

As for us (the moderators of this sub), let us remind you, as we did in this thread and in multiple other occasions and threads, that we are not Reddit employees and this sub is not run as a business. As it is, we do not care about your convenience and we do not want to care about catering to your demands. It is not required of us to cater to you. Understand that subs like this are run as a service. Our hope in running subs like this is to help men, in times where help is desperately needed, by providing them a platform to freely express their opinions and discuss their viewpoints. If you benefit from the platform, then that is our reward. If you decide to stick around and help others (as most mods, endorsed members and flaired members do) then that is a cherry on top. But understand that we fully recognize and comprehend the nature of online interactions and its temporary nature. Even the most proficient and productive contributor eventually moves on. Many have. Most did (and will) unceremoniously and unexpectedly. The purpose of the sub comes first before anyone's convenience or their usefulness or their legacy or their ambition. If you want to leave because we will not cater to your wish, you are free to leave. If you decide to move with us to forums.red, then we will see you there and welcome you there. If you decide to stay in Reddit and to participate in the discussions here, then you are free to do so under the rules of Reddit. We do not have a stake in any of these outcomes. We are here to carry out the purpose of the sub and that will not change regardless of the platform and the people who are present in it.

Let us reiterate for the last time: All posts must originate from forums.red and if you want to ensure that your opinions will not be censored, you should move to forums.red where you will find all mods from here on. If you wish to stay with reddit, where posts will indeed get cross-posted, remember that your comments can be removed at any moment by the mods of this sub or reddit admins if you offend someone. Don’t wish for a perfect world. Make your choice.