Men’s Rights and Feminism

iainmf · 2022-06-13T09:44:49+00:00

How do you think we should judge social movements?

I think it is fair to judge movements based on what they do, rather than what they say.

Coomergen · 2022-06-13T09:26:33+00:00

When the 2017 “womens march” has a woman speaking who participated in something absolutely terrible and evidently has no remorse, when feminists have icons like Amy Schumer who admitted to raping an intoxicated man, and when you put into consideration just how comically scummy of people a lot of UK feminists are, I’m staying the hell away from associating with feminism. I don’t know how many on this sub think like me, but I stay away from the label feminist and instead consider myself an advocate for womens rights.

As for your second question, the words “incel” and “misogynist” do not mean “petty, bitter single man” and “person who harbors contempt for women” whenever they’re used as insults against us. From what I’ve seen, they’re used impulsively by a misandrist when they’re frustrated about the fact that some people are not okay with bad things happening to men like getting arrested after being the victim of dv, male only conscription, etc etc. They don’t at all have to be a feminist for this to happen, as I’ve seen tradcons doing this type of garbage a lot.

EmirikolWoker · 2022-06-13T09:02:30+00:00

There's no misinterpretation. The foundational principles of all flavours of feminism (class warfare between men and women with men winning, shorthanded as "Patriarchy") are inherrently anti-male when you examine what needs to be true for it to accurately describe reality. Feminists can claim that it's "just about equality", but it's equality based on bigotted assumptions, presuming psychopathy on the part of men as a class.

Mens rights advocacy, and Egalitarian values in general, are innately anti-feminist.

or as a movement intended to take away the rights of men whilst placing women at a higher position in society.

Some rights that men lack that women have are:

Presumed custody of children in the case of divorce. This was exacerbated by the Tender Years Doctrine, spearheaded by first-wave feminist Caroline Norton, and perpetuated by modern feminists through lobbying groups' efforts against rebuttable presumed shared custody.
Seperation of consent to sex from consent to parenthood and the responsibilities thereof. Feminist commentators have said that a unilaterally male-controlled contraceptive would "take away womens' choices".
Bodily integrity (i.e., genital mutilation. For girls its a violation of international law; for men it's at best unusual but tolerable, and at worst actively campaigned for as an eroneous means of combating AIDS). Feminists, while claiming to be advocates for "equality", are curiously quiet on this issue, compared to their efforts on FGM.
Immunity from accusations of rape. Rape requires the perpetrator to have a penis, so when women engage in nonconsentual sex with men, he is more likely to be charged than she is. This is mainly the work of Feminist researcher Mary Koss, from whom feminists get the eroneous 1-in-4 statistic. And if a woman gets pregnant from raping a man (or boy), she can sue her rape victim for child support.

Furthermore, gaps showing black people to be a disadvantaged group in the US have comparable or greater gaps favouring women.

TitanicPat · 2022-06-13T10:19:22+00:00

misinterpret feminism as misandry or as a movement intended to take away the rights of men whilst placing women at a higher position in society.

Hi there, and welcome to the sub. I see a lot of people misinterpret feminism as a movement about gender equality. But feminism is a supremacist philosophy. Their attitude to every gender disparity is the same - "If Men Ain't 2nd, They're Cheating!" Without some "systemic advantage" or "unfairness" of some kind, these supremacists are UNABLE to explain why men might outperform women - no matter the disparity at hand. Feminism's selective outrage to different disparities (Education gap vs pay gap for example) is very telling.

As for the name calling, Despite who internet giants cater their policies to, and where such policies are selectively enforced, these names are just words. They are not "violence" and they mean nothing.

Screeching "Misogynist" and "incel" at people, is just a method of control. It is meant to silence people who are making observations that make protected classes of people uncomfortable.

I don't want feminists to stop using such reactionary slurs, I want the targets of their derision to know they are worth so much more than any "approval" a feminist may threaten to withhold.

TheDustLord · 2022-06-13T15:01:38+00:00

Feminism is absolutely about placing women at a higher position in society.

The way Feminists convince themselves they want equality is by creating an imaginary version of men’s lives, and then saying they want to be equal to the status they imagine men have.

If feminists actually wanted equality, men’s problems would matter more than women’s inconveniences and fictional problems, but they don’t.

villeneuves · 2022-06-13T09:25:38+00:00

Why are you talking against the truth?During my several years of working for men's rights in Iran and my treatment of Iranian feminists, I explain why we must fight feminism, what it is and not what you imagine.The greatest pride of Iranian feminists is the dowry and gold coins going to the man at the current rate, which causes the woman to plunder all the present and future property of the man on demand.Although the priority of child custody is with the mother and they spend the child alimony on their own, they lie in the world that full custody is with the father.A man who owes billions to a woman defined in law is never a patriarchy, but Iran is a matriarchy.You feminists only want to humiliate and make men unemployed and make men second-class citizens while they owe money.Gender debt means slavery by the definition of the 99% American movement.World community MGTOW You and other feminists shut down on social media, but we will continue to claim all rights and justice for men in the real world.You women oppress yourself after reaching the top position.Then he says that the problem is ours.Well, you are right, we are going our own way.I do not care about legal action and nothing, we get real justice and full equality even after my death.Supported by the United Nations and globalism, the day of our liberation is finally coming.

NoTrueScotswoman69 · 2022-06-13T16:01:26+00:00

Oh great this thread again, the weekly edition.

We don't misinterpret feminism as misandry, we know it is.

This holier than thou post that we get once a week is just another example of you look down on us.

I can't be bothered this week I'll let someone else run with it.

Sirhugh66 · 2022-06-13T11:21:23+00:00

If it quacks like a duck, has feathers like a duck, swims like a duck, its probably a duck.

AndyBrown65 · 2022-06-13T11:45:32+00:00

many people on the subreddit misinterpret feminism as misandry - not really, all we do is highlight the double standards of feminism and how feminists lack empathy.
a movement intended to take away the rights of men - feminism tends to attract a lot o female supremacists who hate men. These "women" detract from the goals of feminism.
placing women at a higher position in society - refer above. There are plenty of female chauvinists who think that women are wonderful, men are bad.
this isn’t what feminism is or should be about - I would be intrigued as to what you think feminism should be about and how you are contributing
mens rights is interpreted as being super misogynistic with links to incel groups - OK, so when people use "Intel" as a insult it's just a classic. It shows that they only value themselves based on sex. "Misogynist" is just a bullying term.

Thanks for your Qs, my question(s) to you is simple. Why do you identify as a feminist? What are the 5 inequality issues facing women? What are the 5 inequality issues facing men? What are you personally doing to resolve those issues?

OnThatSigmaGrindset · 2022-06-13T12:37:43+00:00

feminism is seen as bad for men here because it is bad for men. it has absolutely zero benefits for men and it's working to actually take away men's spaces in the name of "equity". diverse quotas are the best examples.

shit-zen-giggles · 2022-06-13T17:22:12+00:00

does the misinterpretation of the movement not frustrate you?

It does to an extend, but it has been there from the beginning, it's a constant backdrop and just "one more lie" that feminists tell. One get's used to it, I guess.

maxlvb · 2022-06-13T10:33:31+00:00

Third bad faith post today (that I've seen) from feminists trying desperately to femsplain we've got it and them 'all wrong' and need to 'see the light', and become compliant male feminists.

To the OP: (I doubt there will be any reply from you)

Stop speaking for men.
Stop speaking over men.
Stop treating equality as a zero sum game.
Start admitting your privileges.
Start listening to men instead of just waiting for your turn to speak.
Start standing up against the depressingly common, everyday misandry that pervades feminism, and call out false accusers like men are expected to call out rapists.

Then we'll talk, otherwise I'm not interested in being a punching bag.

Feminism is never coming to help men. We no longer need to play nice. What are they gonna do? Not help us even MORE? So to paraphrase Feminists; no dick, no opinion. Fuck off, Big Sister. Men need Feminism like bicycles need fish.

rahsoft · 2022-06-13T10:24:25+00:00

let me guess

you're at uni and you've joined a cult called the feminist society. You are unable to think for yourself( maybe its your age). you swallowed all the crap without applying any critical thinking.

However I’m curious to know that in a similar way mens rights is interpreted as being super misogynistic with links to incel groups etc does the misinterpretation of the movement not frustrate you?

the only people who think like that are people with an axe to grind over their frustration that men and women refuse to adhere to an ideology,and strangely enough there are plenty of incel women( i know a few who are some of my oldest and longest known friends). the label incel has been twisted to suit a political narrative, similar to when idiots use labels such as "extreme" or "far" prefacing any group name they don't agree with.

so i leave you with this thought

please tell us what rights men have that women don't and people here will gladly show you the rights women have and men don't.

.. and please when you go back to your "discussion" groups and compare notes with each other, stop sending new people to try and proselytize everyone here. The regular trip of yet another "feminist" attempting to "school" us or convince us of their delusion is becoming more tiresome that a knock on the door from Jehovah or Mormons...

If you have read up on this reddit beforehand( eg all the past and current talking points) then there is not much point in explaining yet again to another member of the same group who choose not to apply critical thinking...

you would learn more about the topic if you spent several years out in the grind of reality of many a workplace that many men and women would wish be over soon...

MODS could please have a sticky to keep a list of these points that we are regularly having to repeat, and we can then direct people to it who keep trying to use the same debunked arguments over and over again like a broken record

ASexualSloth · 2022-06-13T11:58:31+00:00

I have a question.

Do you think men define misogyny? Or do you think women do?

Now switch it.

Do you think women define misandry? Or do you think men do?

Do you listen to the person claiming to be abused? Or the person being accused of abusing?

OldEgalitarianMRA · 2022-06-13T18:01:59+00:00

It is encouraging to hearing your interested. in men's issues. Welcome.

We want to reach the middle 81% of women.

Only about 19% of women in the US said they were "very feminist". For the sake of our movement the great middle "somewhat feminists" and non feminists are somewhat MRA's for the sake of equality.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/07/07/61-of-u-s-women-say-feminist-describes-them-well-many-see-feminism-as-empowering-polarizing/

IceCorrect · 2022-06-13T18:20:01+00:00

Based on your responces and seeing you have kinda open mind, Ill have this one question I gave for my younger (22) femnist friend. If you belive feminizm is abaut equality for both genders can you tell me which male issue you know when you were first introduced to feminizm?

Popelip0 · 2022-06-13T14:22:55+00:00

Women's/men's right groups unfortunately get a bad name and bad attention especially on the internet over how bad some of the more vocal and radical people on subs like this for example can be.

Just how many feminist groups online openly hate on men a lot of men's rights groups like this one are filled with people who openly hate women. Truth is the vast majority of people engaging in these discussion actually care about equality and are only out to vilify another group of people to justify their own shitty behaviour.

Men and women both deal with societal issues but the suffering of one group doesnt diminish the suffering of another.

DavidByron2 · 2022-06-14T03:35:27+00:00

Feminism is a hate movement.

as a feminist I

Which makes you a bigot, and also a liar of course since you obviously know your movement is a hate movement. You obviously know of the many leaders in the movement who proudly parade their hate and the rank and file feminists chanting "Kill All Men" all the time.

in a similar way mens rights is interpreted as being super misogynistic

Nobody thinks that way but you man hating bigots. Of course you hate a men's rights movement just like Nazis aren't happy with movements for Jewish civil rights.

tenchineuro · 2022-06-15T01:49:09+00:00

In short I’ve noticed that many people on the subreddit misinterpret feminism as misandry or as a movement intended to take away the rights of men whilst placing women at a higher position in society.

And later she says this...

I don’t believe women can’t be perpetrators of abuse.

Her equality denies men the ability to even defend themselves from female violence, which she does not consider abuse.

TitanicPat · 2022-06-16T12:41:31+00:00

Feminism has the power to write and direct wings of academia and rewrite dictionary definitions. There are feminist organizations that steer and influence the laws coming from our governments. Feminist influence is entrenched in all sorts of places like The United Nations, our main stream media, Hollywood and every tech monopoly.

Feminism has the societal spotlight right now. Along with that spotlight that feminists have pushed for, comes a scrutiny that feminists Constantly attempt, but fail to control. (so far)

When I look at feminism, I can look at the bigotry and hypocrisy of random people online or college students AND I can look to appalling abuses of power from women further up the ladder.

But feminists looking at MRA's don't have that ability. While feminists might talk about 1 facet, of 1 attitude, of 1 person and how terrible it anecdotally may be - MRA's are talking about the Duluth model, they're talking about the inexcusable and inhumane treatments men receive in family courts. They're talking about how the state may be weaponized against them, with false accusations. And they talk about all these things knowing that they came from the deeply malicious teachings of feminism.

Title	Men’s Rights and Feminism
Author	villeneuves
Upvotes	0
Comments	142
Date	June 13, 2022 7:58 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/vb6ymp/mens_rights_and_feminism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/mens-rights-and-feminism.1116185 https://theredarchive.com/post/1116185

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