what do you think of abortion?

GrandSwamperMan · 2022-08-16T19:54:54+00:00

I’m pro-choice, but I find it amusing that the feminist stance on abortion has done a complete 180 since the beginning of the movement. Early feminists were against abortion, divorce, prostitution, and alcohol/drugs since all of these were seen as ways for men to abuse women without consequence.

IOnlyCameToArgue · 2022-08-16T20:47:31+00:00

The government has no place between an individual and their doctor.

Eleusis713 · 2022-08-16T20:47:32+00:00

Abortion should be legal. No living being has a right to use another's body against their will for survival. Bodily autonomy protects you from this and it's not contingent on whether a fetus is "alive", "a human", or "a person". Things like "fault" and "responsibility" are also irrelevant. Even you believed that someone was behaving in the most reckless, irresponsible way possible with lots of unprotected sex, that still isn't an excuse to strip them of their basic rights, we don't even do that for corpses. Basic rights like bodily autonomy are, in principle, inviolate.

If someone wants to allow a fetus to use a woman's womb for 9 months against her will, then they are advocating that fetuses have special rights that no living person has. The pro-life position isn't about treating fetuses as equal to living humans with basic human rights (even if that's what they say), it's about giving fetuses special rights that take precedence over basic human rights.

In this sense, the pro-choice position already treats a fetus as more equal to a living human than the pro-life position. The pro-choice position is morally consistent with the rest of society and the way we treat other similar situations. Conversely, the pro-life position is morally inconsistent and is wildly out of step from the moral foundations of most of the developed world.

All that said, if women have the ability to unilaterally choose to keep or terminate a pregnancy (as they should), then men should also have an ability to opt of financial and legal responsibilities for any potential child. Men don't have reproductive rights like this in much of the developed world.

Right now, it is entirely legal in the US for a woman to lie about birth control, have a child, and then sue for child support which is all too common. Men lacking reproductive rights also creates situations where underage boys raped by grown women become liable for child support to their rapists when they get pregnant. Many boys have legally had to pay child support like this.

I believe that some counties do have laws that allow a period of time after pregnancy where men can financially and legally remove themselves from a child's life (unilaterally, without the woman's consent). This still leaves time for the woman to abort if she chooses. Clearly, it is possible for both parties to have some degree of reproductive rights here.

SuperSupremeKai · 2022-08-16T19:49:39+00:00

I'm of the religious stance; If it endangers the child or the mother's life, an abortion should be allowed.

It shouldn't be used as a get-out-of-jail free card for your mistakes, carelessness or sadistic pleasure.

hear_al_oppinions · 2022-08-16T19:52:14+00:00

Forgive me if I've said too much I'm new to this app and I don't know if a person with a question should be replying to the people who answer

Have a nice day

PalpitationOk7640 · 2022-08-17T10:46:31+00:00

I believe abortion should be safe, legal and rare

bonkbonkhjonkhjonk · 2022-08-17T11:16:55+00:00

I'm strongly pro-abortion but that's not why I'm gonna make this reply to explain myself. I have a question for those anti-abortionists.

Would you adopt a child that was unwanted but was unable to be aborted? Would you help mothers who are forced to have their children financially?

BDT81 · 2022-08-16T21:16:02+00:00

The matter should be between the mother and their doctor.

I wish we lived in a world where abortions were not needed, but we don't. I don't see any shame in abortions. I hope people that seek an abortion outside of medical reasons would consider adoption and I feel we could better support job with adoption and foster care.

hear_al_oppinions · 2022-08-16T19:54:09+00:00

I also do not know if abortion is considered nfw so I would like to know

TheCrazedCat · 2022-08-17T11:52:14+00:00

I'm not feminist or MRA. I'm anti on both sides but I don't really see why we should have a sah in whats to come with abortion.

I think the closest thing we as men comes to that Is being able to sign that we don't want to pay Child support for a child if we're the father

maxlvb · 2022-08-17T05:21:11+00:00

Three day old account... 'nuf said.

If women’s partial responsibility for pregnancy does not obligate them to support a fetus, then men’s partial responsibility for pregnancy does not obligate them to support a resulting child.

Elizabeth Brake, political philosopher

Mighty_oscelot · 2022-08-19T18:10:37+00:00

I say fuck abortion its littetaly putting down a kid

kidvfx · 2022-08-16T19:56:53+00:00

Woman should have the right to abortion I believe. However, if it was from carless sex I believe they should pay for it to cover costs and hospitals time. I think that's fair. If I CHOOSE to put something in my body that I know I can't get help. I would expect to pay to take it out. Of course in more extreme situations it should be free.

hear_al_oppinions · 2022-08-16T19:50:54+00:00

Well even though such things might happen (birth diffects) I think that there is inherent value in human life and even if you've just been impregnated there is no excuse to kill a baby that is also why killing a pregnant woman is a homoside

hear_al_oppinions · 2022-08-17T15:51:31+00:00

I think it should be extended for life, I know some middle age people we should abort.

juicywoosy · 2022-08-16T20:18:48+00:00

If they were raped or the plans fail even after they did all of them then they can, if you take the pill, wear a condom, have the stick in your arm and take the after pill then you can get one but if you didn't take steps at all and just expected not to get pregnant then that's their fault and they need to birth it and keep it or give it for adoption.

hear_al_oppinions · 2022-08-17T13:54:20+00:00

No I wouldn't help them but that doesn't justify the killing of the child This is just emotional blackmail

monkeymanwasd123 · 2022-08-16T20:23:00+00:00

I don't think kids are financial burdens and i don think they deserve to be killed because of a mistake by one of their parents.
the only reason i could see myself supporting it would be out of fear of the us gov ruining my life by making me pay child support without being able to see the kid if i get divorced because a woman i married isn't attracted to me anymore or something as women initiate most divorces and get the kids despite dads being better parents. id rather go to a country without child support and divorce settlements where the woman wont be able to use divorce or kid as a threat against me and instead i will theoretically be able to just raise my kid and trust my wife regardless of what happens.

Regular-Loser-569 · 2022-08-16T19:44:06+00:00

Bottom line: no abortion if fetus is >50% viable, barring major birth defect (Down syndrome etc.), result of rape etc.

Top line: Roe v.s. Wade fashion e.g. limitless abortion at first trimester

Throning · 2022-08-16T20:44:26+00:00

I think there's enough education about sex and reproduction, and enough availability of contraceptives, that anyone choosing to have children very definitively makes the choice to potentially have a child - abortion shouldn't be a solution to "get out of jail free" here.

I'm fine with it when it's a case where the mother's life is at risk, the fetus/child's life is at risk, or when the pregnancy is a result of rape/assault/nonconsensual sex. I'm not fine with it when it's just a matter of "convenience" for the mother.

And not that I expect it to ever happen, but the whole "My body my choice" feminists parrot so often, should be met with a measure of equal "My wallet my choice" from men - financial abortion should be an option for men who never agreed to have the children, who had used condoms stolen, had condoms poked with holes, or were raped/"made to penetrate". Instead there's horror stories of female teachers collecting child support payments from the young men they abused as minors - which is just all kinds of fucked up.

InevitableHighway7 · 2022-08-16T20:48:36+00:00

Its absolutely ok.

Think about it:

You force another human being into life without asking it if it wants to be birthed. The counter logic is that you can also force to stop this life of getting birthed.

But fems dont understand it.

2022-08-17T06:48:36+00:00

I don’t think it should be used except for medical necessity or possibly rape/incest.

Anything else I see as ending a life for the sake of convenience.

TheCrazedCat · 2022-08-16T20:30:14+00:00

[permanently deleted]

iwasawindow · 2022-08-16T20:25:50+00:00

I’m pro choice but in the sense that having sex is a choice. And if you’re choosing that, you accept the possibility of getting pregnant (no birth control is 100% effective). Don’t have sex if you don’t want a baby. It’s as simple as that. It’s disgusting how as a society we are trying our hardest to divorce what sex is really for— reproduction— and just pick and choose what we want out of it (pleasure). Actions have consequences whether we like it or not. Feminism and the sexual revolution has made us forget what the basic meaning of sex is and what happens when we do it.

That being said I think the only somewhat acceptable time to get an abortion is if you are raped. You did not choose to become pregnant and I believe we have the right to choose. However, that presents problems- yes it’s a human life and doesn’t deserve to die because of the sins of its father however I would have a lot of empathy for a woman who aborted their child after rape but also a lot of respect and admiration for a woman who could find incredible strength to proceed with the pregnancy.

It’s also difficult to truly define what rape is nowadays anyway so that’s another issue with that exception.

DarthCallidous · 2022-08-17T02:48:36+00:00

Against it.

pretty_cool_bananas2 · 2022-08-17T14:03:52+00:00

Abortion is completely immoral and should be illegal in all cases, including rape and incest. I supplement this with the belief that everyone should be armed at all times (unrealistic I know, but that’s the ideal) and a woman is completely entitled to kill someone attempting a rape against her. I hold this position on completely secular grounds. I’m happy to elaborate for anyone who wishes to engage in a polite debate. I do not consider ectopic pregnancies or anything of the like as “abortion”. In my view, abortion is the termination of an otherwise viable pregnancy. This distinguishes the moral weight of killing a healthy baby from the sometimes necessary and heartbreaking procedure of giving up on a baby which can’t survive, or which will end up killing the mother.

hear_al_oppinions · 2022-08-16T20:44:54+00:00

Yea but what you're stating is a minority case

hear_al_oppinions · 2022-08-17T11:06:57+00:00

Jk of course but please don't force yeet me

hear_al_oppinions · 2022-08-17T13:39:41+00:00

Still the baby given enough time will be the definition of human.lemme give an example isn't a car that is half way built still a car?

hear_al_oppinions · 2022-08-17T13:57:40+00:00

Still I must say this is way more civil than when I debated someone in person so Thanks for that

2022-08-17T07:09:10+00:00

Less child support although we can't rely on it

2022-08-20T04:33:54+00:00

It’ll bring out the kid in ya!

Left-Disaster-8639 · 2022-08-21T21:08:26+00:00

i’m not really for it but not really against it.

Title	what do you think of abortion?
Author	hear_al_oppinions
Upvotes	8
Comments	115
Date	August 16, 2022 6:50 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/AntiFeminists
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/antifeminists/comments/wq29rm/what_do_you_think_of_abortion/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/AntiFeminists/what-do-you-think-of-abortion.1128199 https://theredarchive.com/post/1128199

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