"We can be victims, too!"

missssghost · 2013-08-12T00:45:16+00:00

Alright, I get it, not enough attention is given to male victims of rape. That's a problem, but guess what's a bigger problem right now? Men can't even help children in pickles because people might think they're a pedophile. Men can't talk to women without it being assumed that they have a sexual interest. Men can't even take their own damn children out in public without psychos thinking that their own kids are the victim of a kidnapping.

Wow, way to throw male rape victims under the bus. Is this really what the MRA is about?

Where are the statistics for these problems you claim are more important than giving a voice to male rape victims/non-gendered anti-rape education?

Mytecacc · 2013-08-11T13:05:28+00:00

Agreed.

The other side of the coin to feminist rape paranoia, is traditionalist style don't wear a short skirt paranoia.

Also, so many people have been exposed to feminist type activism make the mistake of thinking that the mrm should look like feminist rape victim mongering does.

dalsgaard · 2013-08-11T17:42:29+00:00

I think you're quick to jump to conclusions in your post, and I would like to question the validity of your claims:

The simple fact of the matter is rapists don't pay attention to this sort of thing because they're rapists.

I think your belief here stems from a confusion about what a rapist actually is. There are violent rapists out there, who attack and rape their victims in a dark alley and where everyone can tell that there is no consent. However, rapists like these constitute only a very small percentage of the actual perpretators of rape. Most rapists are:

A person the victim is already familiar with, and it's often a friend or a partner (Or former partner).
Usually drinking is involved.
Often the sexual act as already been initiated, but then consent is withdrawn in some form - but the rapist doesn't comply.

It turns out that the people who rape are often pretty ignorant about what constitutes a rapist. They think that a rapist is someone who jumps women in a dark alley, when in reality it can be anyone - and those people can even have the best of intentions. That is why it's important to educate people what consent is, and under what circumstances it's important to get it. If you're both drunk off your ass, then consent becomes tricky. If one is sleeping, then there can be no consent either. Just because there was consent in the beginning of sexual intercourse, doesn't mean that it can't be withdrawn further down the line.

I trust that these things are completely obvious for most people if they really think about it. It's just that most young people do NOT think about it, and therefore it wouldn't hurt to make them aware of it. I don't believe that every single person out there actively thinks about these things, and therefore I do believe that campaign posters carrying NON-JUDGEMENTAL and GENDER-NEUTRAL NON-ACCUSATORY information absolutely will have a positive effect. And then people won't be fearful or uncertain about it either.

Regarding slut-shaming: It's a very complex issue, and it's a term that is very often conflated as well. Imagine an attractive guy who uses an extreme amount of gel in his hair, and uses every oppertunity to take off his shirt. Would anyone hesitate in calling him a douchebag? Not at all. So what about the women who wear extremely short skirts, and barely any clothes outside just to show off? I don't know - how about attention-whore? Bimbo maybe? Perhaps slut or attention-whore is too harsh a word, but I don't believe in this "You can't criticize women because of the way they dress!" idiocy. Of course I can! Shit, if I couldn't, the most sexist people around would be women themselves. They criticize the way they dress CONSTANTLY.

But there are other ways to look at the word "slutshaming", which is: "You were asking for it". Let's be real here: Noone is asking to be raped; and as by my previous explanation of what rape really is in practical terms: how women dress have very little to with if they are raped or not. So slut-shaming in this sense is wrong to do, but in the other sense I see absolutely no problem with it.

johnmarkley · 2013-08-12T03:29:36+00:00

Alright, I get it, not enough attention is given to male victims of rape. That's a problem, but guess what's a bigger problem right now? Men can't even help children in pickles because people might think they're a pedophile.

What are you basing this claim on?

anonlymouse · 2013-08-12T08:53:57+00:00

I think you're being a bit hyperbolic. Raising awareness that men make a significant portion of rape victims (somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2) and that women make up a significant portion of perpetrators (also somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2) is very important in fighting misandry.

Also raising awareness on the part of men that the emotional and mental abuse they experience at the hands of women can also be sexual abuse, rather than the false dichotomy that men are victims of emotional and mental abuse while women are victims of physical and sexual abuse, is also important.

This doesn't mean we're getting paranoid that we can be raped at any second. It's not like we're coming to the conclusion in droves that there are women hiding behind corners ready to jump us and drag us off to be raped.

saint2e · 2013-08-11T13:20:20+00:00

The ironic thing about the gender neutral "don't rape..." campaign that was posted here is that based on the large numbers of male rape stories I've heard lately, it's WOMEN who need to be told not to rape.

Drunk guys waking up to women riding them and yelling at them to get off of them, and they reply with something along the lines of "oh, I thought you wanted this".

Seems like the "don't be that guy" or "don't rape people" campaigns are coming from women not knowing, but projecting it onto the male population, because heaven forbid a woman being seen as a predator, and not a perpetual victim.

Niggy-Tardust · 2013-08-11T18:24:37+00:00

So is this the confirmation we've all been waiting for? That your movement has nothing to do with activism or rights and everything to do with sticking it to women and Feminists?

barbadosslim · 2013-08-13T19:15:01+00:00

I see people spreading rape "awareness" (paranoia) involving telling rapists how not to rape. After all, if it's gender neutral, it makes it not stupid all of a sudden!

The simple fact of the matter is rapists don't pay attention to this sort of thing because they're rapists. The MRM recently has been feeding this rape paranoia, this bizarro mentality that everyone, men, women, children, and cats are likely to be raped at any second.

Well the basic point is that a lot of people don't understand what consent is or why it's important. If people don't understand that what they're doing is potentially rape, then they are probably going to keep doing it.

The idea that you can't teach rapists seems to be based on the idea that rape is generally something done by a vicious psychopath hanging out in dark corners, alleys, and parking garages. In general, a rapist is someone who ignores the non-consent of an acquaintance.

You can see examples of this just about any time consent is brought up on /r/MensRights, other places on reddit, and AVFM. So many people want very badly to defend their right to have sex with people who don't want to have sex with them.

Also, since when is "slut shaming" a thing we do? Last I checked, most of us thought the concept was just silly. We likened it to "virgin shaming" and downplayed it's role in society.

Slut shaming is not uncommon in /r/MensRights, and is especially common among hardcore /r/MensRights supporters, like those found in /r/TheRedPill or AVFM.

Let's get down to brass tacks: Some people have really been pushing "Feminism" into the MRM without actually considering that we don't like the feminists for a reason. This group seems to be becoming more "feministy" over time, less rational, more biased, more sensationalist, and more emotional. I personally do not think it does us a favor, and will lead to even more of a distasteful atmosphere for men.

We're not feminists.

Anything you don't like is feminism. Got it.

rightsbot · 2013-08-11T12:06:17+00:00

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theskepticalidealist · 2013-08-11T23:36:57+00:00

So I read the Op and would like some examples because all I've seen more and more is concern trolls saying this and that isn't mens rights relevant. I don't see what you are seeing at all.

oneiorosgrip · 2013-08-11T23:37:24+00:00

I agree with you that the MRM isn't feminism and shouldn't fall into feminist thought. However, your first sentence is confusing. Progressivism is what left-wing political ideologues in the U.S. call their political ideology, yet telling rapists not to rape comes from the left-wing "social justice/social engineering" viewpoint. What did you actually mean by progressive?

2013-08-11T17:13:46+00:00

Fuck feminism and fuck anyone who accuses the MRM of "oppression Olympics" for talking about how men are victimized by feminism and by society at large.

fukuaneveryoneuknow · 2013-08-11T18:39:58+00:00

Hear fucking hear.

Roro-Squandering · 2013-08-11T14:05:23+00:00

Love this, it becomes a problem if men just try to steal some oppression pie from feminists. Pretty soon it will be the 'matriarchy' that causes men to suffer at the hands of a secret woman organization. Not to say that I haven't already seen such a sentiment pop up now and again.

VaginalAssaultRifles · 2013-08-11T20:09:23+00:00

Thank you! I felt like I was taking crazy pills. It seems like there's an influx of, "You know, feminists are right. Sex IS the worst experience a human being can go through and being found attractive by a member of the opposite sex IS the greatest insult a person can receive. And I want in on the oppression!"

Title	"We can be victims, too!"
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	30
Comments	196
Date	August 11, 2013 12:04 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1k52aq/we_can_be_victims_too/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/we-can-be-victims-too.1166643 https://theredarchive.com/post/1166643

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