Weren't witches victims of people not applying "innocent until proven guilty"?

Egalitarianwhistle · 2020-08-12T22:06:01+00:00

Very much so. It's even the same mechanisms of conformity at work. I have see multiple witnesses shamed into silence by being called "rape apologists."

I had an ex boyfriend of a false accuser reach out to me with evidence but beg me not to mention his name because he said he knew she wouldn't hesitate to falsely accuse him as well.

It's like enabling a pyromaniac by giving them a flamethrower and then shaming anyone who tries to retard the fires.

Kuato2012 · 2020-08-13T00:44:42+00:00

The irony goes deeper. During the witch trials, hard evidence for supernatural phenomena was obviously impossible to produce... So witches used to be convicted and executed on the basis of the dreams and visions of their accusers. Which is to say, "listen and believe" killed the alleged witches.

SsoulBlade · 2020-08-13T01:21:13+00:00

Yes, it is ironic no? Feminists and many on the left wing are blind to historical examples.

2020-08-13T02:02:49+00:00

They lack self-awareness and empathy.

_scheme · 2020-08-13T03:16:32+00:00

Very funny observation, for real! I think it boils down to typical girl larping mostly, but since you bring it up I think it also links them unfavorably to historical events unintentionally. They see the figure of a witch as uniquely feminine, outcast, unfairly persecuted, subversive, wise and powerful in esoteric ways that normies can't understand. Thematically speaking it also maps perfectly onto how they seem to view themselves already, as wise holders of powerful secret knowledge. But you also can't deny the cultural impact of Harry Potter on millennials and zoomers, and the white washing of witches to just mean "spiritual nature girls".

Going back to your comparison, though:

A lot of them would be the witch burners.

Maybe not the burners, but probably the accusers! My cultural connection to witch hunting is limited to the Salem Witch Trials. This is perceived now mainly as injustice against women perpetrated by a patriarchal, puritan society in which women were seen as morally inferior; this is partly true, but what isn't stated directly is that while most of those accused were women, all of the accusers were girls or young women, whose behavior may have been inspired by accounts of a similar witch trial that occurred just beforehand. Basically, it seems as though these girls were emulating a story they'd heard, and then made some wild and unfalsifiable claims which resulted in literal mass hysteria and a systemic breakdown of justice and societal cohesion which caused some people to be killed or have their reputations ruined. I wonder if you can think of similar events in more recent history.

I could go on about how interesting the witch is as a feminine archetype, and what it implies about feminine character, but I'll settle by pointing out that historically they were seen as evil, and persisted in the imagination because of how well they described some darker aspects of the feminine psyche (""toxic femininity""). In particular: manipulation, deceit, secret knowledge and secret influence. I can't tell whether it's ironic that radical feminists identify with the witch archetype.

adam-l · 2020-08-13T03:57:26+00:00

Feminism has no coherence, in a true histrionic manner. It's "whatever the fuck we want right now".

bkrugby78 · 2020-08-13T02:49:48+00:00

I think it's less "why are witches the symbol of this movement" and more "why the Puritans would be a perfect example of this current movement." Of course I agree with your assertion, just hitting it from the other angle. The Puritans put "witches" on trial because they had very strict rules about how things ought to be, and so anyone who went outside of that narrative clearly must be "possessed" or cancelled as we use the term now.

I assume you are referring to subs like r/WitchesVsPatriarchy in your posting and yes, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense as that place is just basically "Feminism w/occasional pagan lore" but if you want pagan stuff, just go to r/pagan.

Blauwpetje · 2020-08-13T07:45:16+00:00

The whole idea of witches being a symbol for feminism was a rather childish 2nd wave phenomenon. The thought was: 'there were women called witches who were considered evil - or who even maybe were evil but that is empowering, and they had some feminine wisdom men don't understand, so they have a lot in common with us feminists.' While in reality there probably were no such groups of women, it was all made up by the witch-hunters, and men were about as much affected as women by the hunts.

Demiansky · 2020-08-13T11:18:40+00:00

A better analogy would be the Satanic Panic of the 80's and 90's. Google it and it will blow your mind. My brother's pre-school teacher--- along with other pre-school teachers all over the country--- were charged with sexually abusing children with Satanic rituals. It got so bad in some towns that people were fleeing for fear of being the next person accused. There was no evidence in any of the cases, just the testimony of very creative, very young children who were encouraged by "therapists" and policd to let their imaginations run wild. The slogan of prosecutors at the time? "Believe the children." The people charged, by the way, were disproportionately men.

In reality of course, there was no network of satanic cabals raping, killing, and eating children. Yet my brother's pre-school teacher is still in jail for it to this day. It was a modern day witch hunt.

Neveah_Hope_Dreams · 2020-08-13T07:33:59+00:00

OMG You are so right!

The Salem Witch Trials was all guilty until proven innocent. The feminist movements constantly bring it up for their agenda.

And this is the same story with men who are falsely accused!

VirileMember · 2020-08-13T10:04:45+00:00

It was not so much presuming guilt as accepting extremely low standards of evidence that doomed witches (and wizards, let's not forget men were executed too).

hugemongus123 · 2020-08-13T10:31:00+00:00

The witch burners turned into witches.

Sonic-Oj · 2020-08-13T11:49:42+00:00

I get the sentiment, but I don't think the Salem witch trials are an apt comparison.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is a standard that exists in the criminal justice system, not in the public sphere. The Salem witch trials were instituted by the colonial criminal justice system.

Title	Weren't witches victims of people not applying "innocent until proven guilty"?
Author	CoffeehasSentience
Upvotes	79
Comments	24
Date	August 12, 2020 7:03 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/i8jv9q/werent_witches_victims_of_people_not_applying/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/werent-witches-victims-of-people-not-applying.1195954 https://theredarchive.com/post/1195954

Comments