How to deal with men who are not advocates?

Fuzzy_Department2799 · 2023-07-25T13:36:48+00:00

From my experience most men are taught we cant be victims from an early age. Especially in western cultures. We literally have to start educating other men that we can in fact be abused mentally, emotionally, financially, and physically because unlike little girls little boys arent taught what to look for from the time they can walk. In other words we are literally on the ground floor of a movement that has to be built while pushing back against a movement so powerful that they can manipulate governments and courts to their advantage. I believe that until we tackle the mental health aspect we wont make progress anywhere else. A broken man doesn't fight back against the one who broke him.

NullableThought · 2023-07-25T14:04:46+00:00

I just call them bigots because that's what they are.

According to the dictionary bigotry is the "obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group."

I like to narrow the definition even further to "membership of a particular group based on an immutable trait" to keep the conversation more focused. No one gets to choose their gender/sex just like no one gets to choose their race or what country they're born in.

Conservatives are used to being called bigoted, so don't expect much of a reaction. But progressives hate being called bigoted because they often believe they could never be one.

phoenician_anarchist · 2023-07-25T09:58:32+00:00

Same way we "deal with" the women, no?

Progressive men. Their choice is more suprising.

Not when you consider that "progress", much like "equality", often only applies to women.

country2poplarbeef · 2023-07-25T15:19:44+00:00

Best I can usually do is drive towards the issues where they say "that's just the way things are," like pointing out how much time they spend proving how much they care about their partner while their partner is only attracted to them if they present stoicism and an absence of negative emotion, and they just point out that's "the way things are" because "women have it worse." At that point, I say if that's the way things are, then I don't want to participate because I'm better than that. At that point, their response starts to shift as they try to accommodate you when they see you won't play ball and, through the course of doing that, they sometimes can admit it doesn't really have to be this way.

Neusprince · 2023-07-25T19:52:57+00:00

Imo there's nothing you can really do about the left-leaning/progressive males but wait. Because any man who is deep left has their wake up call coming. It's only a matter of time. They'll eventually get tired of being called misogynist, being told that any attraction they have to women is objectifying, having any issue they bring up get dismissed etc. There's a reason why most dudes are either centrist or right leaning. I would also say for some guys don't take it too personally because some guys have a lot of their money and resources tied up over there, maybe they live in a very blue city like LA or San Fran. None of us woke up red pilled. We all have a journey. But for the ones who chose to stay on that side regardless of what the women do f$#k em. The Hyenas will show their teeth eventually.

MajesticAsFook · 2023-07-25T13:12:43+00:00

Just get over it. Not everyone's going to agree with what you think and that's fine. It's just life.

nerdboy1r · 2023-07-25T22:41:41+00:00

There's a parallel between some women's reluctance in the early feminist movements and this. We are up ending roles as old as time, granted its 150 years later, but that's not much in the scheme of things. So men are in their mode, in their role, and don't see the sense or even possibility of change.

Just gotta keep advocating, making loud noises while engaging respectably, and eventually the tide will shift. That's the only hope I can find when confronted with these situations.

InitiatePenguin · 2023-07-25T19:19:58+00:00

Do you not consider yourself a progressive?

6-leslie · 2023-07-25T16:40:21+00:00

I think using street epistemology would help. I want to see others do it. I haven’t tried it for this cause myself because I don’t have the strength to listen to people say my suffering matters less or is impossible & make excuses for female abusers. So bear with me as I make request other people on this sub who can do it to learn about street epistemology & start testing it for this cause. Street epistemology focuses on why somebody thinks the way they do, like where does it come from. The goal is for them to reflect on their beliefs & become more critical of how they form beliefs, not change their mind. But reflecting can get them to change their mind. Some situations using it as a tool along with saying your own opinions, not just street epistemology/open ended questions, Maybe this will help/be more effective

the question you have, how to tell if they really don’t want to deal with these problems or if they want to belittle other men to feel superior , street epistemology will reveal that to both you & the person you’re talking to (since he probably doesn’t know himself)

^ And when you know that you’d know how to talk / reach them better

They usually deny facts (both of today & history), so technique rebuttal I imagine a lot more effective than topic rebuttal with them? Like instead of trying to say no this is factually incorrect, you focus on why they think that’s true to make them reflect about how they form their beliefs. (Street epistemology is kind of like technique rebuttal but not really rebuttal since it’s openended questions.) This theory is based on what I’ve seen for 3 years from other activists for other causes & myself using this for other causes too (which 6 people told me they change their lifestyles after talking to me)

Dont ask questions in a manipulative way, I’m not sure how to explain well, like instead of hiding opinions as street epistemology just be upfront : direct about your opinions. If somebody did that to me I would stop trusting & talking to them. Also I just feel gross if I do that to others so I’d feel gross if I didn’t say to others to not do that too.

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