Juste a quick reflection upon the "Male Power Fantasy"

TheWorldUnderHell · 2023-09-12T01:08:42+00:00

The fantasy of being a princess for women and girls is social power fantasy, rather than a physical, violent one. Stories like Means Girls at least bother to explore the dark side of that fantasy.

Tevorino · 2023-09-12T01:39:20+00:00

As someone who read a lot of books (both comic books and novels) from an early age, in addition to watching television, and who can remember the last few years before my sexual awakening reasonably well, I can say that ideas like saving the world, slaying dragons, putting out fires, and stopping criminals, held appeal to me even before I was introduced to the idea that being strong/powerful made a difference to my chances with women. In fact, I distinctly remember being annoyed at the damsel's role in many of these stories, thinking of it as "the boring part". At the same time that I enjoyed those fantasies, however, I was still fairly timid in real life, and might have remained that way if the incentive of sex with women hadn't given me a reason to work on my confidence.

Based on my own experience growing up, what I could see in my brothers and sisters, and what I can currently see my nieces and nephews doing, I'm inclined to think that there is a biological inclination in boys to, say, prefer G.I. Joe over Barbie, as well as to prefer Lego over doll houses, but it's hard to say how much of that is driven by remembering the positive messages we receive when we choose the masculine toys and media, and the concerned (at best) messages we receive when we choose the feminine ones. I still think these inclinations would exist even without the positive and negative reinforcement messages, and that those messages might amplify it.

I think the stereotypical male traits are definitely amplified by not wanting to be rejected by women, so I would agree that the mating strategy aspect is a large part of this. I just think it's far from being the only part. My null hypothesis is that it's 50% nature and 50% nurture, until reliable, consistently reproducible data is able to show otherwise.

I will say that it does seem like both boys and girls are heavily steered towards particular manifestations of masculinity and femininity by their upbringing. My older brother has the physique to be "macho" if he wants to be, and he doesn't do that, perhaps because he received the same, admittedly classist, messaging as the rest of us, that we should look down on people who rely primarily on feats of physical strength to prove their worth. Similarly, I have never seen my sister playing much in the way of mind games with anyone, and that was something that my parents wouldn't let any of us get away with doing when we were children.

Enzi42 · 2023-09-12T11:49:05+00:00

At the risk of extreme cringe, there is a quote from an anime that I feel befits this post (and it's from a male character, if that counts for anything). It's not exactly verbatim, but here is my best attempt at paraphrasing.

"I just had the most wonderful dream. In the dream I'm strong. I'm powerful. Strong enough to protect everyone."

A lot of male fantasies are about power. Gaining superhuman abilities, command over armies, etc. And while some of those fantasies are about domination (and I'll get to that later, I promise), a good deal of those fantasies are, at their core, about having limitless ability to fulfill the traditional male role.

Men's job since time immemorial has been to protect, to fight, to provide. It has cost us greatly, and even now there is no respite or reprieve from that role.

So of course people would fantasize about gaining the power to effortlessly carry out this task with minimal risks to themselves.

It is part of what gives rise to anything from ancient tales of heroes with otherworldly abilities to ordinary people gaining powers and becoming heroes and thus protecting their loved ones.

As for "fantasies of domination" (see, I promised I'd get to that eventually), I find it incredibly hypocritical, selfish and ultimately cowardly for feminists or those aligned with them to whine about male power fantasies that include control over others and dealing out pain and suffering to enemies.

There are so many people in this world who are genuinely oppressed. They lack agency, assurance of safety and are subjected to awful things at the whims of the powerful, whether those are government authorities, superiors or even their own families.

That has been the reality for an untold amount of people since the dawn of humanity. So of course these people would dream of not just freedom, but power of their own. Power to change things, power to avenge their pain, power to shape the world as they see fit.

Feminists just dislike male power fantasies due to their idea that men already wield power over women.So male fantasies like that just rub salt in their imaginary wounds.

Also, as I said, it shows how cowardly they are since a lot of these power fantasies tend to "alarm" them and make them are "afraid of what happens if men buy into them too much.". Meanwhile outright revenge fantasies like The Power are allowed to exist relatively unopposed, even praised for their supposedly poignant messages of lashing against oppression.

This is actually why I somewhat dislike The Male Fantasy meme. For anyone unfamiliar, it is a meme that shows a clip from an old Buzzfeed video where a young woman curses video games, and accuses them of "appealing to the male fantasy". Then a clip from a random video game is shown that is either wholesome, cool, or just plain weird.

The point of the meme/joke is to show how foolish it is to paint male fantasies as bad or wrong due to how varied and unique they are, because men are people with varied and unique interests.

I used to mildly like that meme as a kind of middle finger to self righteous people like the woman in the Buzzfeed video, but I realized lately that this is just another version of "kissing the ring". Desperately trying to gain approval and "prove" men are not a monolithic group of toxic oppressors obsessed with power.

There is nothing wrong with any male fantasy, there is no need to prove that it is harmless. Unless it spills over into the real world, it doesn't matter whether that imagination is about being a powerful hero or a conquering warlord. We all have our mental escapes shaped by our upbringing and environment and all are valid.

Never let anyone make you feel ashamed of that, because they are likely pushing some sort of self serving agenda.

Lumpy_Shake2890 · 2023-09-12T03:47:13+00:00

I think the power fantasy is derived from our desperate need to feel in control of our lives. Speaking from the Psych perspective on this, mental health leans largely on our sense to genuinely feel like we have a say in our life-course. Power, however its manifested, gives us that control, perhaps to an inordinate degree. Control = freedom, whether it's freedom to do as you wish or the freedom to persuade others towards your whims. It's only oppressive depending on how you choose to exert that freedom.

I would also consider it a universal feature of humanity. Nothing gendered or exclusively male. Women have just had fewer opportunities to indulge in similar power fantasy tropes that they can relate to, because those sorts of stories aren't told through the female perspective very often.

Reckless-Pessimist · 2023-09-12T23:03:09+00:00

Whenever a feminst says body types like Chris Hemsworth's or Jason Mamoa's are "just a male power fantasy" I ask "How come these male power fantasy's end up on the cover of Cosmopolitan and other womens magazines?" Beefy men are consistently voted year after year as the most attractive by women. So it is obvious that big muscles aren't just a male power fantasy, theyre also an object of female desire.

That's not to say all women like muscly men, there are plenty of women who prefer the toned, acrobatic body type. But the majority of women prefer beefy men, and thats proven by poll after poll.

Johntoreno · 2023-09-13T18:43:35+00:00

Another, more destructive kind of discourse is the one articulated around the idea that the power fantasy really is a fantasy of power. As in "having power over someone". Like men daydream about oppressing someone.

Makes sense when you understand that they're using patriarchy theory to discern men's motivations, rather than just asking men. According to the patriarchy theory, men as a class betrayed Women and created a system to exploit them perpetually. Why would men do this? Well, this is their explanation, apparently men just have a "desire" to oppress, i guess?

And where I feel like feminism is disingenuous

Eh, i'm pretty sure its disingenuous all the way through.

hotdogbalancing · 2023-09-12T05:31:08+00:00

There are some male power fantasies which are about domination, some which are about valor, and some which are about heroism.

It isn't just a matter of one or the other. People are complex.

You'd have a hard time convincing me that any of the power fantasy elements from, say, "Grand Theft Auto" have anything to do with valor or heroism.

You'd also have a hard time convincing me that fantasizing about being a superhero has anything to do with domination. Valor, perhaps. But mostly heroism.

Low_Rich_5436 · 2023-09-13T07:10:14+00:00

Being gay, I can attest there can be power fantasies without women as a motivation. (nor men, it never even brushed my mind power could lead to dating success. Looks sure, but power? Nah)

I tend to fantasize power because I have felt powerless and unsafe a lot when younger. I think the woman motivation might be a bit similar: no power, no love, therefore power is a necessity to get the most basic of all your needs met.

This, like all conversation about feminist notions, brings us to the demented belief they have that they can read men's minds. Which is why "gender studies" never bother asking us about or conducting any kind of actual research into male thoughts and motivations. They just know their prejudices are facts.

KeybladerZack · 2024-04-20T12:37:09+00:00

Women who use the "male power fantasy" are just coping and making an excuse for why it's okay they get to look at and "objectify" shirtless muscular men. Seriously, no fucking straight dude enjoys looking at men like that. It's an excuse for hypocrisy.

Thin-Salamander3127 · 2024-11-15T21:37:01+00:00

What brought me to this chat was the frequent use in fantasy of the Big Reveal:, i.e. : "Yes, I am seen as a wimp but I am in fact, a superhero with fabulous powers."

To wit: Superman and Lois, Highlander and his wife/and then girlfriend; The AMC Discovery of Witches, Marcus and a human girl, Matthew to Diana, Lestat to Louis in church; in the US version of Being Human, Aidan to Forget her Name, ; Damien to Katherine (was that her name?) in Vampire Diaries etc. etc. All the vampire detectives. Lucifer to forget her name. It's been too long. . . . There may also be Big Reveals where superpowers are not involved.

Can't think of the Big Reveal by a woman to a man, Can anyone think of any?

This playlist is slightly embarrassing; I DO read/watch other literature, by the way!!

Title	Juste a quick reflection upon the "Male Power Fantasy"
Author	TisIChenoir
Upvotes	62
Comments	20
Date	September 11, 2023 5:27 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/16g1f03/juste_a_quick_reflection_upon_the_male_power/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/juste-a-quick-reflection-upon-the-male-power.1231528 https://theredarchive.com/post/1231528

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