If I must be fake to get women, can we ever grow a non-fake connection?

ZanshinJ · 2010-02-05T00:56:28+00:00

For instance, don't be too nice. I'm nice to people, not because I have to. Most of the time, it's harder (I'm rather misanthropic). But that's how I want everyone to treat me, and I try to "be the change" (ghandi). Now I'm told women don't appreciate this.

*It's not *nice that women don't like. It's weak. ** To illustrate with an example: You can be 'nice' to an asshole because you think he's going to kick your ass, or you can be nice to an asshole because you know you have the ability to kick his ass anytime if you want. One comes from a place of weakness, one from a place of strength. In both cases you're being nice.

But in one case you're being nice because you are afraid to express your true personality: That's what being 'too nice' means- not expressing your authentic personality for fear of others reactions.

A man of strength expresses his true personality at all times to everyone (which just might mean being nice in certain circumstances), but especially to hot women, and he also expresses his desires and wants (ie. for her). A man of weak personality hides his true personality,* hides* his desire for her, his lust for her. See how this could be creepy? It's not about nice vs. jerk, but weak vs. strong. Gandhi was 'nice', but he had a fucking strong personality. Be Gandhi, don't be afraid to speak out.

I take pride in my intelligence...I never put much emphasis on body language.

Like most intelligent people (including myself), you've over-rated the attractiveness of intelligence and under-rated body language and emotions. (see below)

So to put it all together, it seems that most women live in a world different than mine. A world which is more primal and less intellectual.

Not exactly true, there are some very intellectual and intelligent women. Two points:

Women generally live in a more emotional world then men. It's just as intellectual, but more filled with emotions about everything.
Sex & attraction is the world of emotions (60%) and physicality (30%) (reverse those numbers for men). (Think about what you're thinking/feeling when you're having sex or fapping...it ain't calculus is it?) Intellect is about 10%.

So it's not that women live in a different world, but that this is the world of sex and attraction, a world of emotions and physicality that is not a world you are used to, or comfortable in yet. In fact, it can be a little scary at first (think of the Na'vi 'world' in Avatar) but you can learn to enjoy it. In fact, to love it.

Don't think you have to be 'fake' to get women to be attracted to you. You don't, lots of women love nerds and creative guys. It's about confidence and confidently expressing the better and more attractive sides of yourself. That's a side you may not be used to, or comfortable, yet expressing. What's great about pick-up is growing a whole new side of yourself. You're still the same guy you were, but more fully expressed and developed. Game is like a magic mushroom.

When you learn to fully express the best sides of yourself and who you are with confidence, you will find that real connection.

Seaton · 2010-02-05T00:14:51+00:00

[permanently deleted]

2010-02-05T09:17:23+00:00

I'll probably get skewered for saying it here, but all this pick-up shit is stuff developed in the past 10 years by folks who have gigantic egos and massive inferiority complexes toward other men.

Think about it: guys have been picking up, laying and marrying women for thousands of years. You can go any direction you want. Study Lord Byron's poetry, study Liszt's piano pieces (which made women cry -- and then he'd laugh at them for being so easily manipulated). Be a chivalrous gentleman. Study Cary Grant movies.

All of this material is valid, at the end of the day you need to screen for the kind of woman you want. The 'end goal' for most PUAs seems to be the HB10 who is an unattainable, frigid bitch whom you need to 'game' in order to get into bed, and with whom a long-term relationship is more like work than real enjoyment.

This isn't for me, and it probably isn't for you either.

My suggestion is to use the best material PUAs have to offer and to integrate it with other choice ingredients until you get something natural that suits your personality. Then apply this consistently -- you will attract the sort of woman you want. If you just use raw PUA stuff you will wind up getting that frigid "HB10" I was talking about.

warpcowboy · 2010-02-05T05:07:34+00:00

A big criticism of learning to be more attractive involves suggesting that it's manipulative. However, guys forget how manipulative and not-themselves they are around attractive females that they're interested in.

Understanding attraction and how it works improves your life in many ways with the ultimate goal of becoming naturally attractive without effort.

I do agree that the PUA community focuses too much on the low hanging fruit that is learning a bunch of canned interactions and carbon copying them for results. That's why it receives the criticism of being so fake.

postdarwin · 2010-02-05T01:09:07+00:00

Pickup definitely should not be about fakeness. Most reputable PUA methods stress that you shouldn't lie, just become the person that will attract the women you desire. Inner game work is crucial. The Authentic Man program is one example of this (not affiliated!).

Think of it this way: you meet a woman and tell her honestly that you spent all day alternating between reddit and RedTube. She's not going to be impressed. If on the other hand, you ask her to join you at a wine tasting you're attending tomorrow evening with some friends--do you imagine she'll have a different reaction?

Now ask yourself: Wouldn't you rather be the guy with the balanced, healthy lifestyle, with varied interests and fascinating plans? Create the lifestyle you should be living. Then it will be with genuine enthusiasm that you say something like "Hey, I make it my business to eat at every new place in town, at least once. And there's this great Ethiopian restaurant I've been dying to try."

So if you go with her, or on your own. Your life is already improved.

2010-02-05T03:06:55+00:00

First off, you can't fake an entire conversation anyway. I have 2 canned things to say and the rest, including the response, is just whatever comes. Conversations are too organic to script from start to finish. Part of you, more like MOST of you, will be in that conversation.

As to the greater point of faking at all. Sorry to use such a cliched metaphor but....

It's a job interview. There are certain things you won't say about yourself for the occasion (e.g. You won't tell the story about the hooker in Tijuana). You're being "fake" because that's the appropriate way to act in that context. Once you got the job, you can interact with your coworkers however you would.

PUA material is for guys who tend to show their eagerness too early in the game, for guys who show too much of their hand too early. Once you've gotten the girl, and you're confident in your self-worth, you can throw it all out and just date the girl as you would date her, no scripts.

To feel more genuine, I'll generally invent my own openers based off my friend's situations but who you are is not the first 3 sentences out of your mouth.

frigginAman · 2010-02-05T03:42:17+00:00

When Stephen Colbert's character first became super popular, the real Colbert was awe struck that people would love him for saying such awful things. When he talked with his grandmother, she told him that people (republican's who think he is serious aside) know that he is not an asshole, because they see through to the real man.

In many ways game is the same way, quality women will see through to the real you. They actually don't want the asshole, they just want a guy who will have fun and be carefree with them. It's just that this is a learned skill, to tell who is actually the fun spontaneous, and confident nice guy, and who is in fact just an asshole. This process will leave many of them burned out and jaded, this too passes but let it pass from a comfortable distance.

jmnugent · 2010-02-06T00:53:24+00:00

If you haven't yet.. do yourself a favor and read this Metafilter thread. If you're seeking information about the PUA/Seduction method, please get opinions in atleast 3 places. Reddit by itself is a very limited/biased membership.

Shadowglove · 2010-02-06T15:45:44+00:00

Never listen to what others say. Be YOU. If you are an asshole, then be an asshole. There is always a girl out there who will love you for that. Don't expect all of us girls to like one kind of guy.

Deacon · 2010-02-05T03:35:00+00:00

Pick-up-artists only end up with the kind of women who like pick-up-artists. Think about that.

Having said that: there's reason that too nice is a bad quality. You're being too nice. You assume that since "nice" is a positive quality, it cannot be taken too far. But that's a mistake. It's possible to be too nice--and thereby give a negative impression. You must know when to stop being nice. Too much of anything, even "nice," is a turn-off.

I know this from personal observation. I was recently discussing the boyfriend of a female friend. I mentioned him and said "He's a nice guy." Immediately, my female friend looked down and quietly said "Too nice." So it is possible to be too nice--even in a long-standing relationship. (The two of them recently took a month-and-a-half-long "relationship break." They are now "back on"-- but I predict it will not last long. After all: he's too nice.)

2010-02-05T03:59:56+00:00

You should absolutely never be fake. Fake people come across as trying too hard, and they don't get girls. When you're fake, everyone can tell that you're fake.

What you need to do is dig down deep into yourself and build the best you possible. Become you to your core. The ideal you is probably in great shape, he's probably confident because he has probably taken the time to find out what he's good at and really build himself in that area, he probably doesn't worry about getting women because he probably gets a lot of them. You work towards becoming that guy. Sometimes you fake it until you make it, but you're never just acting like a person who isn't you. Why would you want to do that? Is getting your dick sucked even worth that?

I really think that, at its core, the PUA movement comes down to guys being willing to look at themselves and say "You know, I could be better, I want to be better, and I am going to really work hard at becoming the best person I can be." Women love guys like that.

2010-02-05T13:00:13+00:00

Read stuff by RSD (Real Social Dynamics). They focus on becoming a "natural". Their stuff is way past "routines" and stuff, it's about being confident with yourself and approaching women with the expectation that they should like you for who you are.

Of course, you will have to undergo a deep identity-level change, but you will not think that what you're doing "isn't you". You will become more confident, approaching women will "be you".

No routines, no pick-up lines needed. You can use them but you won't depend on them.

jankyalias · 2010-02-09T06:36:51+00:00

No. It is not possible to achieve the right ends with the wrong means. While there is always some power play in a relationship, that is not all it is. PUAs are about getting laid. That's The Game. Doesn't mean you can't use some techniques - they do work after all.

Oh on body language - logic may tell you that it is less important than spoken word, but this is absolutely false. The more you think about it in real life situations the more you will realize how true this is. In fact, one trait of autism is not noticing body language.

2010-02-06T15:47:14+00:00

OP...I am somewhat like you.

I did not get married until I was 32, I had a limited number of dates, I really do not have any friends and I have never had a female friend. In fact, once I was rejected because I do not have a sister (big WTF on that one).

This seduction stuff is interesting. The think the "PUA" community is a load of shit to be honest and I have spent quite a bit of time looking at this crap and I find it quite frankly a joke.

All Women want that 6 foot tall guy with a 7 inch dick, BMW in the driveway and a power career and in touch with his feelings. Problem? That guy doesn't exist...or is extremely rare. The MSM today says a guy must have an attitude problem, treat other people like shit and look like a douchebag (which is an alpha male) or he is not worth dating. I read a book yesterday called the Sex God Method and while some of the sex techniques look promising (and I plan to try them), it author essentially saying women want to be treated like shake and bake! Who makes this shit up?

I have add many redditors tell me that women want a guy I just described because they want to be "protected" and "taken care of" and this is because of genetic hard wiring. This is the 21st century now. I think people need to start moving away from that mindset.

I went the route of online dating...took me 3 1/2 years but I have a wife and kid now. So fuck you MSM.

Women do realize this..when they in their mid 30s and realize that perfect 10 is never coming and all of the sudden they realize "holy shit...I am not married and I want a kid...and I am 35!!! FUCK!!!".

I also think this "waiting for the perfect 10" or "waiting for the guy society says it approves of" is the reason people are having kids later in life. It is the female who wakes up one day and realizes she is almost 40 with no kid.

Just my two cents.

BenedictKenny · 2010-02-05T01:18:29+00:00

You don't have to be fake (this is a misconception for noob PUA's).

Can't elaborate right now. I'm in class. Been in a 3 year relationship. Honesty is most important.

pokersoul · 2010-02-08T22:35:21+00:00

if you need to be fake to get a woman, you are targeting the wrong women...

Title	If I must be fake to get women, can we ever grow a non-fake connection?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	11
Comments	56
Date	February 5, 2010 12:04 AM UTC (16 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/ay7qw/if_i_must_be_fake_to_get_women_can_we_ever_grow_a/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/if-i-must-be-fake-to-get-women-can-we-ever-grow-a.1309812 https://theredarchive.com/post/1309812

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