Isn't his sub pro masculinity or against masculinity?

skymonstef · 2024-03-04T21:34:57+00:00

I would argue that this subs position is until being a man is once again respected, then no one gets to expect the self-sacrifice of men

mgtowolf · 2024-03-04T21:40:05+00:00

Society having certain expectations for men (like defending your family and if must your country) is not a bad thing.

It is a bad thing, to expect men to build and defend a country that treats them like garbage. It is a bad thing, when women are supposed to be free of their "gender roles", but men are still held to them.

kandradeece · 2024-03-04T21:53:35+00:00

You will not find many like minded people here. People here are a bit more reasonable. Just wanting actual equality and for society to actually care about men.

Professional-You2968 · 2024-03-04T21:42:09+00:00

Personally I am pro being whatever the hell every man wants to be. Without being defined by idiotic feminists or society.

ElisaSKy · 2024-03-04T23:34:47+00:00

I would argue this sub is anti-lying-about-men-and-masculinity more than it is pro or anti masculinity, whatever that means to you.

And there are a fuckton of lies and bullshit being spread around. Starting with gendered rape definitions and gendered domestic violence response artificially making them look like masculine behaviors (which I define as "things men do much more than women do" for the purpose of this discussion), when asking people about their perpetration gets more women to admit to them than men.

If anything, we're more pro let's-start-with-the-truth-and-work-our-way-from-there than anything else.

ChocolateNo484 · 2024-03-05T00:10:22+00:00

It’s about breaking stereotypes and attaining human rights for men. Very simple. You seem to be on the side that we’re against lol.

Net_Flux3 · 2024-03-04T23:31:37+00:00

Fuck off, tradcuck. This sub is anti male slavery, anti androcide and anti conscription.

AskingToFeminists · 2024-03-05T07:04:33+00:00

Are you aware of the concept of malagency ?

This sub basically oppose malagency.

That means being opposed to the blaming of masculinity for all the evils of the world. But this also means opposing treating men like beasts of burden whose service is expected, "the bare minimum".

I hope this clarifies your confusion.

Positive_Narwhal_419 · 2024-03-04T22:28:01+00:00

Masculinity is disrespected today. Many women see us men as “useless” and that the world would be better w/o the masculinity. It needs to be respected again!

Lonewolf_087 · 2024-03-05T01:21:38+00:00

Neutral on that issue. I wouldn’t call it alpha or beta or any of that I’d say it’s only concerned with ensuring men are heard and meaning all men. It doesn’t support feminism though that is pretty clear.

Sir_Spectacular · 2024-03-05T18:12:11+00:00

I would argue men themselves aren't settled on this issue either.

In the "pro" camp, men might see masculinity as an inherent part of their nature, driven by biological instincts. Traits found mostly in men which society deem "toxic" such as aggressiveness, possessiveness, and horniness, are a natural result of our higher testosterone levels, and are actually healthy when given a proper outlet such as following a professional ambition, and loving and protecting a family. Men these days are vilified for being what they are, and are told their natural instincts are problematic and unacceptable.

In the "anti" camp, men might see traditional masculine gender roles as an unrealistic expectation placed on men, held over from a time they actually did have privilege. Men are given none of the status and power they used to have, yet are given the same responsibility to sacrifice themselves for the good of society. In some cases, as in military conscription, that's a literal sacrifice, but in others, men are simply expected to forgo their own needs to support their family. Men are also given none of the empathy that women now enjoy. When we complain, we're told to shut up, and man up. It's a double standard: Feminism has given women the freedom to forgo traditional gender roles and the social responsibilities that came with them (staying home, birthing kids, etc.) yet men are looked down on when they ask for the same.

WolfInTheMiddle · 2024-03-05T02:02:49+00:00

I don’t understand your position. You’re claiming if men are outraged that society expects them to be masculine that means that they don’t value masculine traits which doesn’t make sense. Is it considered masculine in your view to value physical strength and to work on that? What if I don’t want to use my strength to protect people who wouldn’t piss on me if I was on fire when things were good? Now there is a threat on the horizon why should I put myself in harms way for those who caused me harm? Fuck them. I’ll protect the people who are important to me.

Vaudeville_Clown · 2024-03-05T10:01:19+00:00

I wager your stance differs from this sub, greatly.

I can't speak for everyone here but this is how I see it. If society/people gives a man shit for being traditionally masculine, then society/people should be told to go fk themselves.

If on the other hand men are shamed for not being masculine enough, society/people can again go fk themselves.

Every individual man defines what's right for him, and he's allowed the demeanor he's comfortable with and the physicality he's been gifted.

And for every man that encounters this pressure, while he's not entitled to demand change by force (violence and threats), he is however entitled to walk away from people and structures that have these undue sexist expectations.

We don't really do that whole thing "prosocially reform society/while at the same time streamlining men to fit into some useful role". Mostly we walk away, set up alternate structures on the outside where men can be themselves. Then we watch from a distance how the established structures deterioriate, stagnate and fall apart. This in part because of our non-participation.

venerable_crusader · 2024-03-05T10:52:05+00:00

Personally, I treat others as they treat me. If a woman (or man) is kind and values me, then I will help her whenever I can. The issue is, that some women expect you to bend over backwards for them despite treating you like shit, they are trying to disguise their sociopathic tendencies as tradition while simultaneously trying to shrug off any traditional expectations men may have of them.

Rigerthat · 2024-03-07T13:45:40+00:00

Here nobody gets banned for sharing their opinion and there a discussions. Not like R/Feminists. I once said that I personally wouldnt have liked Hillary as the forst female president because i believe her , trump ect are all dirty and are in the "fold" if you know what i mean. Got perma banned so yeah , thus sub is for all the guys that want actual equality( womens rights) and you wont be lumped in with rapists and sexists.

InPrinciple63 · 2024-03-05T03:20:27+00:00

We need to recognise that human beings are still fundamentally animals based on sexual differentiation that creates attributes particularly suited to the particular roles they play; however we also need to recognise the reality of diversity and not expect people to have certain attributes just because they have others.

People will have the attributes they have and it is up to society to best facilitate use of those attributes for the benefit of the individual and society.

I personally think we should drop identifying attributes as masculine or feminine and allow people to express themselves naturally as they are and to drift into occupations and activities that appeal to them and their attributes, not encourage or coerce them through notions of numerical equality, or greed to follow the best paying job.

I believe it will all come out in the wash if we let people be themselves and facilitate self-actualisation. However it also requires exposing children to different role models, so they can best identify with which attributes they find in themselves. It is for this reason that single parenting is such a bad idea and even the traditional man-woman parenting needs exposure to people with other common attributes, including same sex orientation in all its forms as natural.

MeisterMGTOW · 2024-03-05T13:45:31+00:00

But when it's expected for men to be masculine you are also outraged

Where? What? Who? How?

BoringExperience5345 · 2024-03-04T22:23:27+00:00

I am pro men and pro masculinity. I celebrate the rituals, traditions and even cliches and tropes of stereotypical masculinity and the ancient art of manhood. What we are has been worshipped and respected for most of existence and there will come a time when the traditions of manhood will be called upon once again, when they have run society into the ground. When we are called upon, we better not have forgotten who we are and we better be ready.

ReasonablyUnstable · 2024-03-08T09:50:17+00:00

I just wanna be MYSELF.

I want my brothers to also not feel confined to live in some restrictive gender norms if it doesn't match their soul. I want them to be THEMSELVES.

Some of us are masculine. Some of us align more closely with traditionally feminine personality traits.

Why is it so fucking difficult for people to understand this basic concept? I'm neither for nor against "masculinity" per se. I'm for people, instead.

Title	Isn't his sub pro masculinity or against masculinity?
Author	alkair20
Upvotes	0
Comments	41
Date	March 4, 2024 9:32 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1b6mu5v/isnt_his_sub_pro_masculinity_or_against/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/isnt-his-sub-pro-masculinity-or-against.1426954 https://theredarchive.com/post/1426954

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