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[–]Lipophobicity 80 points81 points82 points 12 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link
1) Too much Men's Rights stuff, we have a great subreddit for that. We have a lot of non TRP content but that is the most common offender
2) Too much blind woman bashing, it isn't helpful. Discuss specific point to counter their nonsense, "this is why women are dumb cunts" type posts are counterproductive and contribute nothing.
3) This is related to #2 but Return of Kings/Matt Forney are click bait. It's Jezebel for men, we can do better
4) Speaking of click bait, a policy of snapshotting or using a site like http://www.donotlink.com would be much better than giving revenue to Gawker sites, XOJane, etc. I thought about making a thread about it but the mods have their hands full as it is
[–]cagethepepper 10 points11 points12 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The woman bashing gets really tired, real quick, and it's plenty depressing after a while.
[–]vorverk 7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
This. Don't turn TRP in to a hating and manipulation of women. TRP is about learning the nature of women and improving your life. Women do what they do because it's in their nature. Men are far from being perfect. Rapes do happen and dominance can quickly turn in to abuse if the power comes in the wrong hands. With great power comes great responsibility. Learn, improve, but don't hate and manipulate.
[–]2RedPill4LYF 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm with you on all these points so far, but let's be clear that criticizing shitty female behavior is not misogyny. If there are individual women in your life that you hate for legitimate reasons, that's one thing, but it is absurd to declare that you hate all women.
[–]Rumble_in_the_Jungle 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thanks, I especially agree about #4 and made a new post to petition the use of donotlink.
With 50K members, I think it's worthwhile to not give extra revenue to the sites you mentioned.
[–]NeoBushi 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
We need to have a dedicated category for SELF IMPROVEMENT. and get rid of Rants and Offtopic.
[–]chillmonkey88 17 points18 points19 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Blind women bashing. RP should be to me about more than "hypergamy, so I lift"
I find the rants childish however I understand where they coming from but wish they weren't posted here
Wish there was more constructive content. Guides/how to (something I want to start creating)
More field reports on minor things Ex: went to bar, held frame, f.ucked. I want to know approach to close details. Not just shit tests and frame
Edit: last one I saw on here I agree with is the "women are evil and have no purpose" some just want the best out of life aren't always trying to use men to get ahead
[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 21 points22 points23 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
TRP doesn't have a coherent philosophy. We have a Ton of different endorsed contributors and mods with different opinions. There is also a huge age spread in the user base 16-40's. The mating game is played differently at different stages of development. I dont see TRP as a philosophy I see it as an amalgamation of the personal experiences of thousands of men.
[–]217v 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I really don't see how it can get more coherent -- It's the most coherent thing I've come across describing life and relationships. Mind you, i'm not saying i agree with everything written, but it's not called the red pill for nothing
[–][deleted] 42 points43 points44 points 12 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link
I do not think that decent women are as rare as this sub likes to think they are. I think most people, both male and female, are inherently trying to live the best possible life. As such, most people do not actively harm another without due cause. Some women will actively want to change society in order to advance themselves, and the same in true for men. However, most people exist somewhere in the middle.
[–]drallcom321 points 12 years ago* [recovered] (16 children) | Copy Link
Decent HOT women are rare. It's next to impossible to not be corrupted as a beautiful woman. Like a politician who gets presents from anyone he meets.
There are plenty of average looking women who have an acceptable character. Why do you think some alpha men take an average woman? Life gets so much more comfortable. There are still shit tests and everything from the book, but all much less aggressive. You often find them in traditional (or simply intact) households.
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
Maybe it is because my goal in life has never been to have a 'HOT' girlfriend. I would much rather have a decent average woman than a pedestal hot woman. Average women have to invest in something to get SMV which means they usually are more interesting than hot women.
[–]drallcom311 points 12 years ago* [recovered] (13 children) | Copy Link
And you don't find them where you find hit women. You most likely won't even attract them with the behavior you use for hit women. Being an invincible high-energy alpha motherfucker can be intimidating for an average women. Being a relaxed man who is just happy with himself is what I miss here in TRP.
[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
I kind of avoid all of the alpha talk and think of it as bluster. I am perfectly fine being quiet and being polite. Most people say that I have quiet nobility and quiet leadership. I am perfectly happy letting the winds take me, just being happy but speaking up when I think we are going in the wrong direction.
I think that many people when they feel silenced initially react by being as load as possible when they find their voice. I acted like that when I first found my voice, but I have learned to be quiet again because I like the tranquility.
[–]draketton 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
alpha demeanor is much more important than alpha words when it comes to generating attraction, anyway
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
My husband is like you, he is quiet and yet in charge. I find that I respect him because he doesn't talk down to me or yell. He literally gets whatever he wants from me just because he is nice to me.
[–]Gstreetshit 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
he is nice to me
nope
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
What you mean nope...he is nice to me...in general he is a hardass just not to me.
[–]Gstreetshit 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
I'm not agreeing with the fact that he gets whatever he wants from you because he is nice to you.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Well it's true....all he has to do is ask as I cannot read minds..I do whatever he asks. Sometimes I offer stuff, like to go get more beer when he's running low and the night is still young. And it is because he is a very nice " boss".
[–]Gstreetshit1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
There we go, boss.
[–][deleted]1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
What's wrong with admission of the truth? Thats the way it's supposed to be. In any given situation there can only be one leader, even in a marriage.
nothing is wrong with it. I'm just saying that you're reasoning for giving him whatever he wants is because he is nice is incorrect. Nice gets you in the friendzone.
Not if you meet a lady who is worth meeting. We were fwb for a year before we were a couple. And we are very nice to each other.
I'm not denying you guys are real sweethearts to each other. I'm denying that as the reasoning you are so loyal.
Well then what's your thought on the why of it? Cause I always felt that I liked him for being in control in a nice way.
[–]magicalbird7 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I agree.
I find a niche at around 6.5 average where the girl is pinchy cute cheeks cute and still ridiculously good with conversation and wants to give you gifts, her love, and her good bed skills. The dopamine rush is still very solid.
EDIT: I mean all that effort for alpha behaviors and looking so good that a physically hot girl that gives you the biggest dopamine rush in the bedroom is worth the tradeoff? Depends on the person.
[–][deleted] 13 points14 points15 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Many women, indeed, most women, will appear decent when you're of high enough value that they feel they have an advantage in aligning with you.
They will demonstrate humility in exchange for an increased chance to be your long-term partner and thus gain access to your resources.
Her humility may appear decent when in actuality it's pursuant to what she believes is her own self-interest.
[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
This is where I disagree with you. I think that most women generally want to have a happy life. Most of the time this means following what society tells them is the good life. Women are not some mythical creature that live off of a parasitic relationship with men. I do not think that women plot and ploy all day long looking for high value men. I think that all humans are inherently drawn to specific sets of traits which can result in sexual attraction or be seen as leadership potential. I think spending a significant amount of time thinking that all women are inherently out to get you is not a good way to live life. Living a life that matters takes risks and I am willing to accept that risk when it comes to women. Now, I am gay which means I will never have a female life partner but I would go so far as to say that straight men should believe that most women are decent and potentially datable.
[–]Gstreetshit 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
mythical creature that live off of a parasitic relationship with men.
I know someone that would disagree with that statement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pGLNeov2VM
[–]ltCameFromBehind 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You're so naive if you think the men around you are any better when it comes to moral flexibility. Self interest is the name of the game and the only people who are honest are the people who have a large stake in being perceived as such. You can do a statistical analysis on how much of a stake someone has in their social image and honesty and it correlates closely in performances on trust studies. As terrible as evopsych tends to be at explaining human behavior, it hits the nail on the head with this one.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't ever recall saying men weren't self-interested. In fact the central theme of this forum is men figuring out how to get their needs met and nobody here is pretending otherwise.
The problem is the cultural myth that while men are self-interested and are primarily motivated by getting sexual gratification from beautiful women, women are divine and selfless and can do no wrong.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is an interesting point. High SMV disparity means you don't need red pill? Possibly.
[–]draketton 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think they are as rare as this sub likes to think they are. But I think that's the result of a sick society. I don't buy most of the evopsych explanations.
[–]eccentricrealist 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Yeah, there are some women who can feel strong emotions but can restrain themselves. I tend to see this in more traditional households.
[–]1Zackcid 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You have to say what part of TRP you disagree with.
[–]1bradyo2 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
My one and only criticism of the views of TRP users is that I find there to be an exaggeration on the number (and description) of real-life feminists.
Sure, there's a fuckload of them on the internet, but I think I've probably only met less than 10 in my whole life in reality, and only half of them you'd describe as "activists who are fat and ugly". A lot of them are internet warriors.
[–]TRP VanguardCyralea 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You live in the wrong (right?) city then. Come to Toronto. Feminists as far as the eye can see.
[–]1bradyo2 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, I think it is a country thing. I'm from the UK, and you don't see too many archetypal feminists. Don't get me wrong though, they're there.
[–]updock 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Natural genetic attractiveness and social status/celebrity are infinitely more important in pulling women than frame control and confidence. Just because the tenets of TRP help you to maximize your smv, it doesn't mean your smv ceiling is all that high.
[–]TRP VanguardCyralea 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
That's fairly in line with TRP's teachings. Perhaps you're thinking of /r/seduction?
[–]updock -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I haven't browsed seduction for more than about 20 minutes in my life. I think I'm thinking of TRP.
So many posts here blatantly exaggerate the importance of frame control and body language. Rather than say what the best way to maintain frame or the optimal body language one can have, posters tend to asssign a relative weight to every piece of advice they give.
[–]TRP VanguardCyralea 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So many posts here blatantly exaggerate the importance of frame control and body language
It's easier to learn frame control and body language than it is to change your genetics and become a movie star. We focus on what's possible. I don't think anyone denies that being famous is a free ticket to pussy. There was a post yesterday about how Tom Cruise is a model alpha, despite being 5'5". TRP recognizes the power of status and fame. It's not a realistic goal for a dude looking to improve himself though.
[–]marlybarrow 9 points10 points11 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
We discuss the ways in which women are deficient in comparison to men and the way men are superior when compared to women e.g. loyalty.
But no one ever talks about the inverse /reciprocal (not sure which); men deficient compared to women and women superior compared to men
[–]whoops_fap6 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Women are superior at making babies.
Or when the discussion is about women's ability to perform better, especially in social circumstances, it is almost exclusively in a negative light. This may be the nature of TRP though, more than conscious effort, since TRP tends to emphasize conflict or competition in social settings and the male is the assumed speaker.
[–]socio_j 12 points13 points14 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I do not agree with extreme individualism and the lack of empathy as qualities of masculinity. I think this mentality is product the economic system (neo liberalism). I view the alpha male as a leader, but a positive leader, a leader that protects the women and the weak, helps those that need help (especially men) and is in general a person that produces value, thus he becomes a wise man to the people that surround him. Some threads regarding sociopaths and the general admiration to such qualities is disturbing.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think that removing the male archtype from society has created bitchy women who need an exaggerated agressive male to feel demure in comparison.
[–]1FloranHunter 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't particularly care that most here regard sociopathy has beneficial for alphas but I agree with you on the ideal alpha, for myself. I also agree that fuck (most of) neoliberalism.
[–]Wolfwoodd 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My biggest kinks involve group sex and girlfriend sharing. My ideal woman is very different from the TRP ideal. That being the case, I still have a strong frame and great relationships.
[–][deleted] 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]esco_ 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
While you're correct in that the confirmation bias will influence our recollection of events, you're wrong that looking at data (our experiences) and then seekign to explain them in terms of theory is unscientific. This is the very process known as abductive reasoning.
abductive reasoning is basically looking at the data we have available (e.g. a particular person's behaviour), and then deciding what the best explanation for this data is. Often times with our experiences, TRP theory is the best explanation.
Now, you're also correct in that we should be able to predict, and TRP theory allows this. For instance, we can predict how a girl will react to the advances of a high value male vs a low value male. Most of us don't have the ability to set up experiments using this theory, so stories after the fact are what we go on, and this is fine
[–]smokingtransistor 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Agree with you as well, i think nedsheperd tried to warn us of the bias. My feeling lately is that we eschewed a little from the getting better path and we focused more on shaming which shouldn't be the main concern
Would agree with you. What for most including myself is hard to realise is that women are different. Women are not men. And that's what they do best. What we are here for is to understand this even the first phase is anger and bitterness. We don't want women to stop being unreasonable and stop being emotional. That would make them almost men and i don't fuck men. I want a woman that i can support and lead, there was a post some months ago with the captain and first officer analogy. If you know how to channel all her energy and emotions they can be awesome. If you don't they'll level you to the ground and they'll perceive that as the right thing to do.
So, gentlemen let's stop whining how bad they are, cuz they are that bad because of us and because of men unable, unwilling or being too lazy to stand up, fight for their lives, ideas... We stopped leading and we stopped from producing leaders. Our politicians became whimsy and weak. Our society became self indulging and comfortable. We need to grow balls and challenge ourselves as many times as we can, we have to get out of our bubble and extend our limits. Only when this will happen women will start honouring men as they did in the past. So let me ask you when was the last time you liked a hot girls photo on fb ?
[–]1spicy_fries 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
TRP is observed phenomena. To say you disagree with it is to say that you disagree that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.
That being said, probably the only thing that I am not down with is the extreme amorality that might be practiced or encouraged by a subset of individuals.
Sleeping with married women because "alpha fucks"... I mean, if the woman hasn't cheated before and there are kids involved... don't be the guy she cheats with.
[–]whale_texture -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If a wife would cheat with you, she'd just as easily cheat with another guy. If things in her family life don't start spiraling downward because you helped her cheat, they will eventually when someone else does. In my view, I am not responsible for her relationship or her decisions, and to help her cheat is to do nothing wrong on my part.
Many of the logical leaps and conclusions made on this sub in its context are too general and broad. Even if someone has a shred of the right idea, another poster takes their post as dogma and uses soft evidence to make hard and fast rules.
It's not just TRP though, to be fair.
I fear teaching men that all women are the same will make them mistreat "a good girl." I tried TRP on my girl and it had the opposite effect. She likes me best when I am nice, help around the house, cook, help her with her problems. I feel like TRP only works on shitty women. I use the theory for interacting with coworkers and family.
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago* (29 children) | Copy Link
The stance on women in general annoys me. Humans are a complex beast and it is just silly assuming a whole gender acts a certain way. Yeah sure there are plenty of stories of women acting like that but the planet has 8 billion or so people on it so of course you can find enough examples to justify any view. Look at everyone as an individual and judge them based on that, you will be surprised at the results.
I have never been shocked at someones actions once I have gotten to know them. For examples partners who cheat, every single time that has happened I wasn't surprised as I could already tell they were capable of that. People need to choose their partners better rather than crying when something that most people could see happening occurs.
The mentality that TRP has unlocked some supreme understanding of women is just laughable. You could ask the most "beta" of "betas" what women are looking for in a partner and they will most likely answer confident, fit and successful.
The only thing that TRP does is actually do something about it. (Or at least the theme here is) the hatred towards women is just unjustified.
[–]1Zackcid 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link
You forget that humans are animals. Why is it so easy for people to accept "animal behaviour" when studying other animals, but suddenly no such thing exists for humans? We have "human behavior" as well. There are underlying instincts that we follow.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link
The fact we have research teams trying to understand animal behaviour just proves how different we are and how little we know. Animals adapt to the environment while humans adapt the environment to suit us. We might as well be aliens from a different planet by how fundamentally different our behaviour is from most animals.
[–]theozoph 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link
We might as well be aliens from a different planet by how fundamentally different our behaviour is from most animals.
Once again, BPers prove how close Progressivism is to Puritanism. All down to "Humans Are Special Creatures of God".
Nope. Plenty of animals modify their environment to suit themselves (beavers, ants) or have a cascading impact on it (reintroducing wolves has an impact on forest growth through decimation of the deer population).
Humans are nothing special, except in their symbolic production. And even that is most often a convoluted expression of base desires shared with the rest of the animal kingdom : music and dance as nuptial parade behaviors, shopping as foraging, sports as male displays of dominance, etc.
Science and storytelling are the only two really human behaviors.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link
That's just not the case, humans can live where they would not survive otherwise, why don't you go throw that beaver in the Arctic and see how long it survives.
Cool story got any science to back that up?
[–]theozoph 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
Some ants harvest snail slime to insulate themselves from cooler climates. Where you see us as a "fundamentally different" species, I see a question of degree.
They're called epistemology, semiotics and common fucking sense. Which you're obviously bereft of.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
Kinda funny that epistemology requires more than science and storytelling to understand.
Humans are far more complex and it is just stupid to make out like we are a product of our instincts except for "science and storytelling"
[–]theozoph 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago* (14 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, cuz' that's totes wut I'm sayun, brah.
Fucking moron.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago* (13 children) | Copy Link
You are the one who said it.
You are completely over simplifying people which is why you are wrong. There isn't a set definition on how a person acts. Eating, breathing and sleeping are the traits we all share but even with how simplistic that sounds there is an extraordinary degree of how that is accomplished person to person. We live in a complex ecosystem that our greatest minds are still wrapping their heads around and you are so ignorant to believe you have got women worked out.
[–]theozoph 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
You are completely over simplifying people which is why you are wrong.
Funny because you're doing the exact same thing to me, and yet see no contradiction in it.
you are so ignorant to believe you have got women worked out.
So that's your problem. You don't understand TRP, you're still stuck with a caricature of it, and you try to apply that false image to every one of us to protect your precious illusions.
Oh well, no use talking to you I guess.
How am I over simplifying your points?
Oh I do understand the premise of TRP and I don't agree with it fully. I am all for people sucking up and taking responsibility for themselves and improving. This alone will make them more successful at picking up. It's not some secret and it doesn't give you any insight as everyone knew that already.
The whole women's true nature bit is a bit of a laugh though. They are a product of their times just like the rest of us, and even then there are still plenty that buck the trends. Or do you really think that peoples nature change somewhat generation to generation? It was only 60 years ago that everything was completely different. This generation coming up is all sex positive so that is the real driving factor of the "core nature" everyone goes on about.
Yes there are plenty of slutty women out there who fit the RP mould to a tea. However there are plenty that aren't as well.
[–]theozoph1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
That's exactly what I'm talking about. You think we have this image that all women are bar skanks dating bikers and drug addicts until they land a beta IT guy when they hit the wall.
That's not TRP, no matter how often /r/relationships and dating columns offer these examples to our mocking attention. The point is that most women (and most men) act in a maze of rationalizations (hamsterizations) about their behavior and never understand why they land flat on their face time and again.
You only see the surface of the argument, whether about this sub or me. You don't seem to understand that TRP isn't about "fucking sloots", but about the truth of human nature that let betas be betas, sluts be sluts and somehow convince themselves that it'll all lead to sunshine and puppies.
The extreme cases mocked in this sub are just superb examples of this process in action, whether it's the beta conned into an "open relationship", or the post-wall slut wondering "where did all the good men go?"
I know plenty of people who aren't either, but even they will offer the same platitudes about human nature, and cling to their illusions about "true love", "loyalty", "settling for the best", "having fun while young" or "letting people be themselves". I look at them and know when they're one bad day away from divorce robbery, a life of nagging and/or dead bedrooms, a loving relationship with their 20 cats, or some other horrible fate that seems to follow people too stupid to notice what's right in front of their face.
But some don't have to rationalize their misery, because they apply red pill principles unconsciously : the feminine and submissive woman in love with her aloof bf, the natural player who's never had to wonder how to woo women, the traditional couple whose religious tenets taught them how to lead a good life, etc.
TRP is simply the key to understand why shit works the way it does. All the mocking and horrible examples and outrage at how fucked up the system is, that's just the side-show. And apparently, that's all you see.
In the same way, once you get that humans are really animals who rationalize their instincts (tell themselves a story about them), you understand at lot about human behavior. Our brains are sense-making machines which continually create patterns to explain and expand their inner story, even if it doesn't correspond to anything real, the way looking at an untuned TV leads you to see patterns in the electronic "snow", when it's really random.
90% of what we do is animal behavior, from eating and playing and socializing to dancing and singing and competing. It's just filtered through our story-making frontal lobes so it "makes sense" (and is enriched by it, of course). Science is the only endeavour where we really bother to check if the world agrees with our story.
And once you accept this about not only the world, but yourself, then you've really swallowed the red pill and can start applying smart strategies to your life.
Which is the point of the whole freaking sub.
You do know this sub is about sexual strategy don't you? You seem to have drawn much more meaning than it really is.
This speaks volumes about you. You look down at everyone else because you think you have some kind of supreme understanding that they aren't in on. Really you have a better understanding on how to pick up women and why not to let anyone treat you like a doormat.
So what about people like me who don't sing, listen to music, or dance? What about people who don't compete? There are plenty of people who don't socialize as well. Unless it's to do with survival (and even then humans don't follow it well time to time) instincts are taken out of the picture. As for that line about science that is just horrible and why don't you try that line on /r/askscience or ask a scientist.
Tell me what the difference is between someone who has swallowed the pill as you say and has improved his fitness, confidence and success in life in general.
Or someone who hasn't swallowed the pill but has also improved his fitness, confidence and success in life in general and doesn't let people walk all over them.
Both will be successful in the dating game, both won't be treated like shit.
You seem to have drawn much more meaning than it really is.
And you seem determined to draw as little from here as is possible. I guess it balances itself out. I know I'm not feeling cheated.
You look down at everyone else because you think you have some kind of supreme understanding that they aren't in on.
I also know a lot about IT stuff, and I have pride in my abilities. Looking people fumble at dating, to me, is like seeing them trying to figure out how to set up a Linux OS : both frustrating and knowing that while they could use some help, you have to let them fumble until they ask for help. Unfortunately, people invest a lot more ego in their dating skills than their IT ones, so I might be waiting much longer.
It's the same attitude you have about TRP.
So what about people like me who don't sing, listen to music, or dance? What about people who don't compete? There are plenty of people who don't socialize as well. Unless it's to do with survival (and even then humans don't follow it well time to time) instincts are taken out of the picture.
You know what happens to the people you describe here? Don't socialize, don't compete, aren't too good at taking care of themselves? Yeah, 99% of the time they don't pass on their genes and get weeded out of the gene pool. And lead miserable lives, too. Unfit individuals are not a sound basis for planning successful strategies.
As for that line about science that is just horrible and why don't you try that line on /r/askscience or ask a scientist.
Or perhaps you could stick those fingers out of your ass and explain what's so wrong with it.
Tell me what the difference is between [RP success] and [BP success].
RP knows why he succeeded. BP got lucky.
I was pointing out the vast diversities of people and how they act and that instincts are fairly irrelevant. Not commenting on whether or not I thought their lifestyle was positive.
Well for one science isn't stories it is based on facts.
I actually described someone who wouldn't be considered "BP" at all yet you still classify them as that. If someone isn't RP they must be inferior BP right?
I was pointing out the vast diversities of people and how they act and that instincts are fairly irrelevant.
Thinking that is what leads to ineffective strategies and lifestyles. From bad assumptions flow bad decisions.
You know nothing about epistemology, do you? Facts are here to affirm or refute theories about the world. Building hypotheses, giving them a theoretical framework and verifying them through experiments is the whole basis of science.
Facts (of which there is a potential infinity) in and of themselves tell you nothing unless you've selected them according to their relevance to the hypothesis being tested.
Natural selection is a story about the how the living world works on the macro scale (primordial soup, single cell organisms, multicellular organisms, sexual differentiation, natural selection, branching species, complexification, adaptation). Observation of facts about species is what will either confirm or invalidate it.
This is why you still have such a hard time understanding TRP. You still think RP/BP means winner/loser, and see everything as a pissing match (funny that you would deny our animal nature when you display nothing but socially competitive behavior in a debate).
Blue Pill doesn't mean "loser", it means "ignorant". Like in the Matrix, it's about being oblivious to the nature of the world. And nothing feeds ignorance like a confortable situation. What TRP describes as "natural alphas" might have Red Pill behaviors, but their thinking is most often very Blue Pill. "Be Yourself" is good advice for naturally dominant men, it's just shitty for everyone else.
An interesting corrollary is that you can be a Blue Pill alpha, or a Red Pill beta loser. Knowledge is all well and good, but only applied strategies lead to progress. Knowing about TRP is a first step, but unless you use this knowledge to enhance your life, nothing about it wil change, it's not a magic pill. Which I guess is half the reason why people resist it so much : it's not an easy fix.
And, in parting, I'd advise you to get rid of your equalist notions. Men are not all equal, born or otherwise. Some are stronger, or wiser, or more intelligent, or faster, or prettier. There's a reason we tell people to raise their SMV : while Blue Pill thinking says we all deserve equal respect, people still treat each other according to their perceived value.
Well we will just disagree then.
Well it really depends how you look at equal. I look at people equally but I make no assumptions that people are equal. People vary in different degrees and some men and women are worth less than others.
If a man and women are both as capable as each other they are equals. However the physiological differences makes this an extremely difficult task for a woman to accomplish with things like strength and even then there are limits. Most people have different skill sets however so you have to look at people as a whole.
However the views that men are not all equal and there are different degrees of men and then in the same notion view all women like they are all the same is just baffling to me. I always look at people as individuals regardless of what gender/race/religion they are. Their actions determine what I think of them and not some predisposition I have based on things like AWALT.
Equal is a feel-good concept that has no practical application in the real world : equal to what? In what circumstances? If I need my heating fixed, I'd rather call a plumber than an engineer, sure. But if I have to design a heating system, I'll call the engineer. But since it takes more work and more knowledge to acquire an engineer's skill set than a plumber's, and since there's a limited pool of engineers compared to plumbers, I'll pay him more. And I'll value him more, in every sense of the word.
That's practical. That's reality. Saying they're both equal might assuage the lower classes' ego, but that's just a lie, since they really aren't in any sense of the word : whether in economic power, advancement opportunities, cultural access, or sexual market value, the engineer will outclass the plumber 99% of the time. In any legal battle, the engineer will be able to secure better representation, so even legal equality is not assured, despite our democratic proclamations.
Saying "I look at people equally" is only true in the first few seconds of any interraction (if that long), since any conversation or exchange will involve a reciprocal evaluation process where we will judge the person's dress, speech patterns, ideas, manners, his value to us both short and long-term, etc. It's a natural process, of which we're only minimally aware (he's boring, he's probably a Republican, he dresses like a bum, what the fuck is that yokel accent?... etc.)
No matter how enlightened you hold yourself to be, you do not treat a bum like you treat your boss, and neither should you. "Equal" is the mantra of our time, but like most mantras it's really a word devoid of meaning.
However the views that men are not all equal and there are different degrees of men and then in the same notion view all women like they are all the same is just baffling to me.
Whether you hold people equal or innately different is irrelevant to the fact that they'll most likely share common characteristics to their sex/culture/social class. AWALT simply means that all women (save a insignificant minority of outliers) share common characteristics like hypergamy, self-interest, and post hoc rationalization of their actions. The greatest woman in the world will feel revulsion at her man's display of weakness, will feel attraction to higher-value mates, and will blame him if she fucks up their relationship. That woman can be a top model with a PhD in international politics, or a ghetto stripper who left school in 7th grade, it doesn't matter.
That's just how it is, and you have to plan for it accordingly.
Did you even read what I said? I said that people had different skill sets and people weren't equal. Just if two people have the same ability and have a different race, sex etc I will look at them the same.
Like I have said before a lot of women are like how you are describing but a lot aren't. It's just silly to automatically assume what someone is like because a lot of the time you will be wrong.
Look at peoples actions and judge them on that rather than pre judging them based on their sex, race, class or status.
Did you even read what I said?
I even quoted you :
Saying "I look at people equally"
But disagreed because I don't think it's possible, except by ignoring your past experiences, education, and common sense.
Let's do that again :
Just if two people have the same ability and have a different race, sex etc I will look at them the same.
Really? You'd feel equally secure with both a man or woman firefighter? With both a white or a black police officer? I applaud your dedication to ignore statistical trends, and hope it never backfires on you. I, otoh, apply context to my interactions, and am rewarded with smooth sailing.
Like I have said before a lot of women are like how you are describing but a lot aren't.
You must either tell me where all those unicorns live, or buy a new pair of glasses. How few men are truly strong and decent individuals? Why would you think decent women are any more numerous?
It's just silly to automatically assume what someone is like because a lot of the time you will be wrong.
Now who's not reading who? TRP is about adapting your strategies to each situation, without forgetting fundamentals. We don't learn to cold read, adapt, and generally become more diversified because "women are all the same". You keep, line after line, to cling to a cartoon version of Game and TRP where we "treat all women like bitches" and "play the alpha jerk" to the hilt.
We don't.
Sociology 101 : people are all different on a 1 on 1 basis, but behave according to discernable and predictable trends on aggregate. Why is everyone always so sure things are either one or the other?
As /u/Demonspawn often says : a person who believes rules don't have exceptions is a bigot. A person who believes everyone is an exception is an idiot. I'm neither.
Well if she was strong enough, granted that's unlikely but providing she is sure. As for white or black police office why on earth does it matter? Race has zero bearing on someone ability to do a job.
Australia and there are plenty of decent people here as well both genders. In fact Australia is probably by default a RP country.
You a sociologist?
I studied sociology in college, enough to know that what marketing and PR professionals do is based on a real grasp of human social dynamics, and that human groups' behaviors can be predicted with startling accuracy.
I also know that people react better to people to whom they are related, and that Australians aren't a different species of humans. I would envy you your rose-tinted glasses if I didn't know first hand how vulnerable they're leaving you.
Ah well, some things can't be taught, you have to experience them. I guess you'll just have to go through this the hard way.
Good luck, I mean it.
[–]Senior ContributorSkorchZang 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Here, here. Seems that pill is a little stuck, let me give you the Heimlich, then you might want to up the dosage.
[–]1Zackcid -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't even think he's a genuine subscriber. Sounds to me like a BPer who found a convenient opportunity to bash and express his disagreements with everything TRP. NAWALT tends to be one of the first lines they spew.
[–]TRP VanguardCyralea 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
8 billion or so people on it so of course you can find enough examples to justify any view
Would you say that humans have 2 legs is accurate, or is it silly to say that because I've generalized 8 billion people?
There are mental qualities that are common enough that we can observe them and generalize. That you don't understand them doesn't mean they're not there.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
That is just stupid beyond belief. No wonder people get the impression this sub reddit is filled with knuckle dragger's.
Herp Derp people have two legs my argument is right.
Well using that logic every person on the planet breaths a different composition of oxygen so that's means everyone is different and I am right. :/
Herp derp lets ignore the fact that there are 8 billion individuals on the planet and not one of them is the same or will ever be the same again.
Nice, ad hominem and reductio ad absurdum. I think you can squeeze in a few more fallacies next time.
Do you have an actual counter argument? I pointed out why generalizing isn't bad or inaccurate.
When you are talking about the nature of people it is dumb beyond belief. I am living proof on how stupid classifying people is. I have had multiple trained professionals with multitudes more years of experience than you try and diagnose exactly what "condition" I suffer from and they can't even remotely predict what I am thinking. There is nothing wrong with me despite all their training dictating that something should be seriously messed up with me considering my upbringing.
Now given how this sub reddit idolises the earlier generation how on earth was it possible for the entire western hemispheres population to practically hide their true nature for generations?
[–]Exactly_what_I_think 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
You won't agree with it until you see examples in your life.
Even adjusting for confirmation bias it still feels like They Live.
[–][deleted] 12 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Exactly_what_I_think 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
It doesn't matter if I agree or not it is the way it is.
The general principles repeatedly show up in my life.
[–]circlhat 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
1.That blue pill men are bitter and pussies
This is the general belief and its simply untrue. I was never bitter in my blue pill days, the funny thing is most girls flat out told me I needed to be more of a asshole. Which goes to show girls aren't just out to make guys beta orbiters.
Even on TRP, you will get accused on misogyny and they will say its normal to hate women after being blue pill so long. The word is thrown around to much on here, as if we have to prove something. Fact is unless you want to cut up women in small pieces or want to harm someone for just being a girl you don't hate women.
[–]smokingtransistor 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Then, when you change into more of an asshole, they'll shit test you by telling you that you were so cute and adorable and now you're a butthead and an arrogant prick now. First was said because she felt so insecure around the person that it was in her interests to make you more of an asshole. They demanded an upgrade to the white knight not more.
[–]magicalbird0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I enjoy female friends because they show a different perspective on life. If I befriend them I make sure they're not my type because trying to friend them is very different from trying to use TRP to get laid.
I don't believe in AWALT although the majority are. So instead of rare unicorns being 95-5 or 100-0 to many in TRP I think of it as more 70-30. Of course the hotter the girl is the bigger chance her behavior will confirm TRP. TRP looks at hot women actions because they want hot women.
[–]1Zackcid 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
TRP looks at hot women actions because they want hot women.
This is an important line. When it comes to game, we're generally just interested in the physically attractive girls. Hot girls tend to grow under the same circumstances, so they usually end up very similar to each other.
[–]magicalbird2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Hotter women are more prone to hypergamy due to being told they're beautiful their whole lives. It creates a narcissistic spoiled brat that feels like she needs more and more and more whether it is attention or dicks.
[–]tomega 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I agree that most principles defined by TRP is an underlying base for social communication. I also like to approach them in a scientific way finding out what really works and what doesn't. Discussing about this in society is outside the boundaries of political correctness. This is why I like lurking TRP. However I do not fully agree with the definition of ultimate masculinity suggested by TRP. For me the qualities of a real man would be focus, self discipline and self control, effectiveness, ability to deal with bullshit, being professional and productive and at some point of life having the ability to recognize good wife material and ultimately being a good father figure (and working hard for that). The TRP definition of alpha maybe is more focused on social situations. The ultimate goal defined by TRP of spinning plates seems too much hedonistic and pointless or lacking self discipline.
I also see a general TRP fixation on woman behavior analysis sometimes turning to woman bashing. Ironically I believe it is caused by existing irrational male fear to talk to women overall. In my opinion women is more similar to men than TRP thinks. There must be more productive ways to approach the problem.
[–]dub121686 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I see a lot of weird zealot talk that gets annoying but I mostly ignore it
[–]DiabloSythe -1 points-1 points-1 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Men have to be this unshakeable rock for women or they just toss you like a piece of garbage. I'm going to have some difficulties. I would hope I could find some woman that isnt a piece of ahit that can let me be a human.
[–]1Zackcid 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Once you accept that, on an instinctual level, it wouldn't be advantageous of the woman to be with you, you'll be able to identify that woman better. We've got the theory to explain why they behave that way, but it's gonna take a woman who consciously rewires her mind to not act that way, if it's even possible.
I agree with the entire "philosophy" of TRP, but I disagree with what seems to be the majority of guys who have hangups about a women who've fucked several guys. I actually encourage women to slut it up while they're young, might as well do it then because that window of time when every guy wants to fuck them is pretty small.
[–]CSMastermind -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Heavily victims of confirmation basis.
[–]217v 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Just realize that the opposite views are also subject to heavy confirmation bias. Only there, the bias is encouraged.
[–]CSMastermind 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's fine, I'm not saying the theory behind the red pill is wrong, just that the subreddit is full of confirmation basis. We post the stuff that matches our worldview and ignore the stuff that doesn't, and I think that's wrong.
Partly because the red pill is about accepting the truth even when it's uncomfortable, and partly because I think it weakens the argument. I'd much rather see a subreddit full of examples that don't seem to line up with red pill theory and thoughtful discussion about why than one full of examples of women cheating on men. We know they cheat.
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