What do you think is the best way to combat street harassment?

BaroloBaron · 2024-09-03T12:58:57+00:00

If only we all agreed on what constitutes "harassment". Objective characteristics, not whatever is unwanted by the person who claims to have been harassed.

Low_Rich_5436 · 2024-09-03T08:07:34+00:00

This "catcalling" conversation is always so weird to me.

I suppose my country's culture does not promote it, because I've witnessed it maybe five times in my 40 years of existence, always by teenagers. Plus drunk people who do it in bar streets, though I don't think it counts: drunk people of either gender in party settings shout all kinds of things to all kinds of people. I've lived everywhere too: big citiy, mid city, small city, tiny village, downtown, midtown, uptown, rich area, poor area. I've heard it happens in multicultural neighborhoods though I've never witnessed it.

Women friend's I ask say it happened to them, but the number of occurences over a lifetime is always very low (much less than once per year). It's a biased sample of course. Maybe women who dress "working-class sexy" (fake nails and such) experience it more?

I'm sure cultural norms play a part in it: we are a distinctly unintrusive people. That being said, it also means people do not police one another, so nobody would go full karen on you if you'd catcall. You absolutely can piss in the street, litter or not pick up after your dog and get away with a furtive stare of disapproval at most.

I wonder if the question is not about how to make people not do it and more about why they do it. It's a weird behaviour. It's entirely pointless. I've read somewhere that it could be about making yourself exist. Fighting a feeling of being invisible. It would fit with my experience of only seeing teenagers do it. Or maybe it's just a teenager thing and the complaints only come from young women (and older women who haven't gotten over it)?

What in a society drives a significant number of people to catcall? Do adults actually do it?

I would be so interested in reading the point of view of someone who's done it.

Infestedwithnormies · 2024-09-03T10:31:58+00:00

Damn I wish my biggest everyday fear was getting unsolicited compliments from strangers.

eli_ashe · 2024-09-03T23:51:27+00:00

i appreciate the thoughtful post.

i tend to agree that the proper way to deal with catcalling is via tabooing, and noting that catcalling is not a criminal offense, nor is it even indicative of something wrong going on.

catcalling is a matter of tastes in socio-sexual interactions.

its fine if folks who don't appreciate it finger wag bout it, but there gonna be folks who do it anyway, and there gonna be folks that actually appreciate it, who actually seek it out even.

it is literally just a means of approach or the paying of a compliment.

I've come to see the decline of the practice in tandem with the rise of online interactions. 'online catcalling' is super common and far less tabooed.

folks just grown used to the online thing and have come to find the in real life experience 'strange', like all in real life experiences.

ashfinsawriter · 2024-09-05T18:08:53+00:00

I've always found the catcalling thing fascinating tbh. I only know two people it's happened to, one of which I was there for the incident.

The time I wasn't there was my best friend. She's a woman. She told me about it, and said that she honestly just found it funny. She's a very confident person.

The time I was there was with a very close male friend. A whole car of women were catcalling him- he was absolutely thrilled. Seriously made his entire month, and he still sometimes brings it up as a memory that brings him a lot of happiness.

So... I don't really understand the problem with it, I suppose. Now, if someone's following someone, demanding a response despite clear disinterest, THAT'S harassment. But catcalling truly in isolation? I don't see any serious harm, it just seems a little immature and annoying perhaps

I'm AFAB myself btw and I honestly think that a lot of the problem is that women are trained to be paranoid. That same best friend who's very confident? She feels perfectly safe walking alone at night too. Nothing's ever made her feel unsafe. To put it bluntly: The statistics in most areas don't actually back up the level of fear women experience. Men are more likely to be randomly assaulted on the street than women- in fact they're more likely to be victims of every type of assault aside from rape, point blank.

Meanwhile, most rapes are committed my friends or even family, not random strangers. They're also more likely to occur in social environments than randomly on the street. It genuinely reminds me of back when I was so terrified of bugs (such as bees, wasps, and spiders) I felt extremely unsafe outside, despite never being bitten or stung by them (I'm low-key convinced I'm allergic lol). Changing my perception (exposure therapy via forcing myself to go outside anyway) means I don't feel unsafe outside anymore because I realized that the odds are extremely low and living my life based on fear of something that likely won't happen is pointlessly making myself miserable. It also used to be that actually encountering a bug would be a terrifying, borderline traumatic ordeal regardless of whether or not they actually threatened me at all, which enforced my conviction that outside was dangerous. I legitimately think a lot of women are operating like this about men. Rather than tackling the fact that they're experiencing an irrational phobia, they chalk up every interaction with a strange man as ACTUALLY being a threat where they got lucky, even if they were never in danger.

It's also worth noting that if someone IS going to assault someone, they're more likely to pick someone not looking confident, so this paranoia literally puts people at higher risk than if they just didn't worry about it: https://www.girlswhofight.co/post/body-language-victim-selection-how-to-lower-risk-by-walking-confidently (they have sources compiled at the end)

On the flip side: I honestly think that most catcallers think they're being nice. I've never seen my friend who enjoyed being catcalled doing any catcalling to anyone else, but considering how amazing it made him feel, I genuinely think a lot of catcallers are essentially treating others how they want to be treated, which we're generally taught to do. So long as it doesn't escalate to harassment I genuinely think it should be taken in good faith. You don't have to like it, but you also don't have to assume they're awful creeps.

I'm rambling at this point but I hope I got my points across

Phuxsea · 2024-09-03T11:10:23+00:00

I agree with all of this. Street harassment is unacceptable and should be illegal in the serious cases you mentioned. The problem with criminalizing catcalling is that the laws would disproportionately target mentally ill and working class men.

Illustrious_Bus9486 · 2024-09-03T13:06:55+00:00

You claim to support the 4A but, previously, you said that you support police forcing someone, who has committed no crime, to surrender their person in order to check them for possible warrants. How do you mentally resolve this conflict?

LucastheMystic · 2024-09-03T07:01:53+00:00

I openly judge people who do creepy shit and say creepy and problematic shit. Simple shit like refusing to laugh at misogynistic jokes makes these guys uncomfortable, and they back track or simply don't do it again.

With friends in particular, I basically gentle parent them. A lot of people act without thinking. Force them to consider their actions, and they will be more cautious.

Title	What do you think is the best way to combat street harassment?
Author	ferrocarrilusa
Upvotes	12
Comments	34
Date	September 3, 2024 2:29 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1f7oyyl/what_do_you_think_is_the_best_way_to_combat/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/what-do-you-think-is-the-best-way-to-combat-street.1529224 https://theredarchive.com/post/1529224

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