Any other transsexual men on here? I want to know your thoughts about how feminism and the greater LGBTQ movement does or does NOT benefit FTMs.

hefoxed · 2024-12-29T09:44:43+00:00

There's a few of us here. I think at least one trans guy has posted a threat recently also.

Some parts of feminism has been important for securing some trans rights, and still is important for issues like reproductive rights. We have benefited from feminism in a variety of ways.

However, the majority of the issues that this sub brings up also effects trans men. I've known about trans folk who don't transition due to not issues around hating men, and been seen posts from trans guys on reddit every week or so about this issue -- feeling hated in progressive spaces, some hesitant to transition or considering de-transiting due to it. This deeply bothers me -- people not wanting to be what they are due to feeling hated is really bad.

While TERF idealogy doesn't directly effect trans men in the way it effects trans women, the R part of it does -- it's rooted in some very problematic views of men, the difference between an average rad fem and a TERF is TERFS don't see trans women as women, instead they see trans women as predatory men trying to get access to women spaces. But those same stereotypes about men are reflected in red fem ideology also, and effect how men and thus trans men are treated. There's been several posts in this sub about TERFS which are worth the read.

Personally, I've been examining my own relationship to masculinity -- as a gay trans guy, I've leant into the f@gg0ty aspects, and I wonder how authentic that is to my core, if that was in part due to not wanting to be "bad" masc man -- e.g. how deeply I've internalized misandry. I've also been reflecting on my mum's abuse of my dad and brother, and how much that was due to being told that men are bad/the oppressor/the problem -- that framing when told to abusive women is likely as dangerous as telling abusive men that women are property, it "justifies" abuse in some abusive people's head...

There's also the issue with gender norms in general. Parts of feminism pushes against gender norms, but as we know from trans folk, some people benefit from gender affirming behaviour. But without gender norms, is there gender affirming behaviour? Forcing people into gender norms is bad, but the gender norms themselves may not be -- there's some balance there that hasn't been figured out.

As far what we can do about it, is well, with feminist that support trans folk, we can use that to try and push for some changes discussed in this subreddit. For most part, we know what misogyny is, so we may be better believed that misandry is real and is effecting everyone directly or indirectly (misandry and misogyny feed into each other, reducing misandry can reduce misogyny and visa versa. Example, calling someone sexists/misogynists [when they're not] can contribute to them being alienated from communities and to instead enter communities that are more misogynist.. a self fulfilling prophecy ). We also need to understand that people have legitimate reasons to hate (parts of) feminism and the left for pushing those types of feminism, and being angry at feminism does not make someone misognyistic.

In person conversations can often be more powerful then online, tho online activism has it's place and can also do a lot.

Getting involved in local community so have some weight to the words (volunteering, etc) can be useful for this and also for self -- engaging in community can be good for well being.

Educating ourselves on these issues brought up in this sub and others is also useful to have conversations -- I've learnt a lot, there's quite a few issues and perspectives I had not considered.

Listen to center-ists and center-right leaning to understand their perspective also -- I've been listening to some "anti-woke" media analyis people, and now better understand some of their arguments (that hollywood "feminism" + bad writing + stupid corporations have destroyed a lot of good shows).

For our how rights, we /need/ the left to change to stop alienating and ignoring men's issues as the right will continue to target us. For the dems to win, we need to stop the bleed to the right -- e.g. it's for our own safety and future that we need to engage in this and advocate for change. Talking to other trans folk on this is also useful.

Such_Recognition2749 · 2024-12-29T18:57:55+00:00

Here’s some of my experiences as a trans man:

There’s always been transphobia in feminist communities. My experience only dates back about 15 years but there has been soo much social progress on other issues since then, it’s the same shit in a different world. Years ago, some women loved saving me from my male friendships and all that toxicity of cis gay men (this is in SF back when it was still gay and lesbian). I was all but explicitly out as trans to my male friends and not one man batted an eye about that. Because back then in the gay community there were girls who weren’t really girls and didn’t fit in with other women and it was okay to still be vain and look pretty.

It was other, and only lesbian women who took offense to this and would accuse me of being a pick-me and that I was hiding behind men because I was so ashamed of being a lesbian I had to side with the patriarchy. It was so normalized in their world (world meaning physical streets that were the lesbian part of town) to claim the world would be better if men never existed or if they could just all be castrated or enslaved. These people were terrifying and I’m still undoing the hurt from sucking it up and taking it.

I also felt gaslit into feeling like a victim. I grew up having to fight quite a bit, and I knew how to and how not to defend myself and de escalate situations. Many of those skills I had to learn in childhood.

Coming out as trans meant further betraying my “allies” and “the only people who will ever appreciate me for who I truly am” they couldn’t understand why I would do this instead of being a masculine lesbian. I’m not “masculine”. I’m a goofy father to my kids.

I don’t think this is said enough that for many trans men, if we were stuck on a desert island with no mirrors or other people we would still take testosterone. Being on the right hormones changed some of my health issues and made me feel chemically like myself right away and I’m never going back off it.

I worked really hard, like actually worked, to help advance the rights of LGBT people. At the peak of the Prop 8 clusterfuck and the aftermath, I was in courtrooms fighting judges and lawyers on changing court documents, and fighting hospitals and the state for gender neutral documents and termination of donor rights. My ex and I were conceiving and getting married and there was an angry mob of boring parents showing up just so we all had admissible documents to use and procedures for using them.

When I divorced, my ex used the biological mother card as much as possible, while the state hadn’t yet converted to gender neutral divorce forms. I had to fight my own lawyers on this.

I remained in the closet even longer because I knew my transition would be used against me, and it was. Meanwhile my kids were in actual danger and it took years of CPS cases for them to mandate I get sole custody. The mental gymnastics used to uphold benefit of the doubt were insane.

As far as the greater LGBTQ+ community goes, in my experience there is a profound sense of entitlement to trans bodies and outing trans men. I’ve been outed at the queer barber shop. I’ve been outed by my Uber driver before she went on about her queer polycule because she’s sure I get it (I never said I was trans?). I’ve been outed in front of my kids.

And there is still a great deal of fetishizing from the lesbian, queer and non-binary community. I’m gay, but apparently I’m closed-minded because gender is a social construct and there’s no reason hooking up with a lesbian/nb isn’t also gay. At the same time trying to talk to people who aren’t male-presenting can be tough. People get scared when I start conversations or even look their way, and it’s a mind-fuck. I’m still the same person. It almost never happens with older people.

I’m just happy to pass now and get on with my life as a father.

Upper-Divide-7842 · 2024-12-29T12:16:17+00:00

It's tricky.

It doesn't hurt to acknowledge that the intersectional feminists that seem to make up the bulk of feminists today are more down with trans issues and gender queer stuff than your average citizen.

But at the same time they hate men. So if you're a trans man you're in a bit of a bind there.

Be nice if basically fucking everyone was not a polarised moron who has to accept their sides party line on everything but hey, it would be nice if people could fly.

SuspicousEggSmell · 2024-12-29T09:12:45+00:00

not a trans dude, but am queer and have been seeing trans guys talk about transandrophobia as of late: granted most of them deny misandry as a thing but I’ve seen them try and push back a little on the idea that masculinity is wholly accepted by society

LoganCaleSalad · 2024-12-29T16:52:37+00:00

As a cis man I can honestly say my heart breaks for the trans community for both trans men & women as the terf ideology seems to be gathering steam which is horrifying. Y'all having a safe space is diminishing year over year as now you're getting hate from both sides of the political spectrum.

Know there's still safety here for y'all. There are still a large swath of progressive people both men & women that will fight to protect y'all right to exist & thrive. We will stand with you always against the hate regardless of where it comes from. The saddest thing is if trump & the gop ever figure out a way to use y'all to advance their agenda like they did men & working class in this last cycle you'll see the transphobic rhetoric disappear & it'll just be the terfs screaming foul. That's the part I worry about most.

monarchmra · 2025-01-02T00:49:16+00:00

While being a cis(mostly) het(mostly) man, I can talk about this from tumblr's perspective because most of the mutuals on my blog are trans men:

There is this discourse on tumblr right now, and its been bouncing around back and forth all last year, around rather or not trans men have any amount of oppression, and if they should be "allowed" to use trans masc specific tags (and words) to talk about their issues. Transmisandry (hate of trans men), Transandrophobia (fear of trans men), and the like.

I see the "transandrophobia" haters often suggest trans men focus the discourse on how they are being "emasculated" because that """correctly"" implies that trans masc hate is really about the hatred of women" and god damn must that be a massive slap in the face.

Now they are doing the thing where they try to claim that trans men are "singling out trans women" to attack for "calling out trans misogyny from transandrobros" (a slur they use for trans men who dare to think they are oppressed). Despite the fact that some of the biggest voices on the pro-trans-androphobia-discussion side are trans women, not trans men and calling big not-trans-masc youtubers on tumblr talking down to trans men about their issues, "calling out transmisogyny" is laughable.

Then if you go on the curated subreddit for tumblr and its like a flip switches. So much empathy for trans men and trans mascs.

Its a fucking mixed bag is what it is.

oh, fun fact, when I spoke out for trans men on this debate, i got a fuck ton of hate and death threats assuming I was a trans man (others got rape + forcefem threats). When they figured out I wasn't all of the hate mail stopped. I guess all that talk about "punching up" was just talk.

TaskComfortable6953 · 2024-12-30T02:14:25+00:00

goodluck bro, you're in for a hell of a fuckin ride

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