Shaming is a good thing

gliph · 2014-05-28T18:37:09+00:00

Its called constructive criticism. If we weren't being turned into sensitive feel bots since the day we were born maybe none of this would be happening.

Sure it's nice to 'feel' sometimes, it's a human trait. But it's even more human to be aware of those chemical reactions and to act accordingly, not to use it as a pitiful crutch in which you can hamster away your indiscretions.

The entire world needs a little bit of 'maning' up to do if you ask me. Maybe than we can grow as a human race instead of finding new things to be offended about.

hungoverseal · 2014-05-28T16:12:26+00:00

Shame = something wrong with you

Guilt= something wrong with what you're doing/thinking

Shame is toxic to self-improvement, guilt is healthy.

Attack what people are doing/thinking, don't attack people

Shame is also why you get girls making false rape claims when they get drunk and have shitty sex. Shame culture is not good

You see it with guys trying to improve their dating skills by going out and hitting on random girls. They get rejected hard or can't work up the courage to go hit on a girl and they go home feeling devastating, toxic shame. They feel there's something wrong with them. There's nothing wrong with them, just something wrong with the approach they took. When we believe that we ourselves are intrinsically flawed how can we possible grow? If we believe that our actions or mentality are flawed we can recognize room for growth and really attack those weaknesses

UnimpressedAsshole · 2014-05-28T23:34:58+00:00

According to Nietzsche, the only type of bad person is someone who tries to make anyone else feel ashamed.

billiegoad · 2014-05-28T16:14:56+00:00

Do you know what feminists and gays have in common? They've both been manipulated by the legal establishment into thinking they've missed out on something. Feminists the right to work 50 hours a week while everything in their home is outsourced and marriage in the case of the Gay community. Both groups have created for them a body of law that creates litigation opportunities. So ladies? Too bad you just can't rely on a mule to support you anymore while you sit home arranging play dates for the children, and Gays? Welcome to the heterosexual family court hell we've been financial and emotional victims of for decades. I know. You all just want equality!!!! ahahhahahhaa!

greycloud24 · 2014-05-29T01:00:33+00:00

a lot of people try to control each other using shaming language. it doesn't work on me, because i don't respect people who do that. i mean i use shaming language all the time, i use it on my friends i use it on myself, i use it on random people on the internet, i use it on people i just met. its a filter, its an asshole filter, and people who deal well with assholes deal well with me. they are made of thicker skin, they aren't fragile little things.

at the same time when i see people using shaming language in a way to control someone else, i see them as being manipulative. i don't have respect for them. that doesn't mean they should need my respect, in all honesty they should just move on and live their lives (that is what i would do). but they won't be winning me over onto their side by doing it, and that is my right.

also shaming language in an argument is an admission of defeat. i respect logically sound arguments, or arguments backed by data that can be repeated. shame carries nothing in an argument. it means nothing, it prescribes no behavior, it implies no need to change, it is just shame, and is effectively a non-argument.

so i guess it matters where the shame comes from. if a friend tells you that you should change something because of some shameful trait, than you may want to consider it. if a drunk girl at a bar says you are fat/creepy/slut/virgin/etc than she is just demonstrating that she is a shitty person and is not worth your time. if a feminazi on tumbler tells you that you are creepy because you said you like thin women, than you know that she is just trying to control you and it just makes her look sad and pathetic. if you are discussing red pill ideas and a troll tries to claim you won't get laid with that attitude, than they are completely failing to bring up a rational reason for why you are wrong.

it all comes down to context. and the only people you should give a flying fuck about shaming are the people you care about and the people that care about you. those are the only people who will have your best interests at heart instead of their own.

2014-05-28T20:00:35+00:00

I said it before here, and I'm happy to say it again. Without shaming, I might still be the pudgy depressing mess I was 2 years ago. An old friend of mine "fat shamed" me, and I immediately started on the road to self improvement (this, by coincidence, happened about 2 weeks before finding RVF, Heartiste, and the manosphere in general). A few months later I was down 35 pounds, in martial arts, and at the gym consistently lifting. I also started approaching girls and found decent success.

If you are even slightly overweight and don't like your facial aesthetics, lose the weight immediately. Really gives you a jawline.

2014-05-28T18:27:05+00:00

That depends what you're shaming, surely?

For example fat shaming is normally shaming fat people who are in control of their own weight but basically abuse their body. But shaming the MRAs usually talk of is shaming of this idea of "real men" who are defined as having whatever qualities people want to manipulate into someone.

Like I could define "real" RP'ers as men who don't no for an answer and if you're rejected that they should force themselves on women. Now this would be seen as grossly unfair and completely outrageous. It would be unfair and unreasonable to shame RP'ers for not being "real" RP'ers on these grounds.

Where as it's fair to shame someone who's committed murder for being a murderer.

Point is that it depends, there's reasonable and unreasonable shaming, a lot of the shaming tactics feminists talk about are perfectly reasonable things to shame, some of the things MRAs complain about shaming such as "man up" are unreasonable expectations on men which aren't based in any kind of objective fact, men shouldn't suffer just because people see that as "manly".

In a more general sense I'm OK with shaming in the sense that I believe it's a right to freedom of speech, what I would advocate is that people judge others on what they shame people for and act accordingly if it's unreasonable be aware that being friends with someone with unreasonable opinions reflects on you.

paracog · 2014-05-28T23:36:27+00:00

Shaming only works if the shamer has social and/or moral capital. Shaming is like an antibiotic or a pesticide. Overuse results in adaptation. MGTOW, RP, etc. are examples of this kind of adaptation, in my view. Also, unwise shaming squanders whatever social claims to validity the shamer originally had. Feminism is a prime example of this.

itsmsbetty · 2014-05-29T02:14:58+00:00

Shaming is fucking terrible. I speak from personal experience. My parents have shamed me, people have shamed me, and all it did was make me defend and reinforce the thing they shamed me for. What helped me actually change for the better was people leading by example. When i saw that they were somehow succeeding it motivated me to be better.

But when people shamed me for being skinny, it provided no benefit.

TheStoneyVibes · 2014-05-29T04:17:45+00:00

Yeah dude my mom did that shit to me all through my highschool career. I was a tripp pants chubby goth kid who just smoked weed got arrested ( never convicted) and hung out with friends and skipped school. Fast foreward ten years got a great job in the medical field all i wear is button ups at work and home lost a bunch of weight and wont leave the house if i look like shit cause all that constant drilling of that shit into my head by my mom got me to that point. Negative reenforcement

PaulRivers10 · 2014-05-29T07:52:16+00:00

Feminism just takes it's usual approach - they complain about shaming when it suits them, and shame endlessly when it suits them as well.

Ironically, how they fight the "horrors" of shaming is - by shaming you for shaming. It's almost kind of funny.

Every single feminist-issue article is shaming men for something. Saying they're against shaming is just pretend - they're against the shaming they point out, and they enforce what they want by shaming you about it.

2014-05-29T21:13:37+00:00

Shame, more often than not, is toxic and destructive. A couple of examples:

Feminism and society at large shame male sexuality like there's no tomorrow. "Female sexuality is beautiful while male sexuality is perverted, deviant, predatory, and is to be ridiculed."
Virgin shaming is toxic because it creates the idea that a man's self-worth is dependent on his relationship with women. "He's not good enough just as a regular man, but if he has a girlfriend or gets laid then he's ok."

One of the biggest milestones to getting women is realizing that you don't need them and that feeling like a whole person shouldn't require sex or attention from women.

Shame can be constructive when it comes to things like keeping in shape, maintaining a decent appearance, having a solid work ethic, etc. But different facets of society all too often use shame to control and harm others, and this is especially true for the relationship between feminism and men.

If you're a redpiller, then most forms of shame probably won't work on you. But for the average bluepiller, it can be very poisonous and encourage some self-defeatist (and even codependent) behaviors.

sproondeermaan · 2014-05-29T02:54:33+00:00

Proud shamer here, sometimes I shame so hard they think I'm trolling.

GreatWhite_Buffalo · 2014-05-29T03:15:07+00:00

Shaming a person based on things that people can't change or have no power over is idiotic, whether it's race, gender, height, or anything.

Unless you're a bald/balding man. Only then is public shaming allowed.

manofdepth · 2014-05-29T03:48:08+00:00

I've posted this a few times already; but if you are looking to understand shame and how to be immune to it, Here's a direct link to the PDF: Roy U. Schenk and John Everingham - Breaking the Shackles

This book was written by Men for Men.

CarlsPudding · 2014-05-28T16:09:05+00:00

Took me a lo g time to realize this. Preach on, brotha.

puaSenator · 2014-05-28T22:43:05+00:00

Without shaming, society would collapse because everyone would be fine being pieces of shit. We as a society have to shame failures to encourage them to better themselves and stop their shitty habits, like being a fat or slut.

cascadecombo · 2014-05-29T02:43:58+00:00

Shaming = feminist lingo.

learn what men actually do. When men criticize they do so wanting you to be better, when women shame they do so wanting you to go away.

gliph · 2014-05-29T11:15:32+00:00

What's with TRP shaming women who have lots of sex? Don't you WANT to have more sex with women without strings attached? If so, you should encourage women to sleep with whom they want without feeling shame.

KarmaNoir · 2014-05-28T19:08:30+00:00

Sorry, whats MRA?

Title	Shaming is a good thing
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	59
Comments	60
Date	May 28, 2014 3:39 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/26pbdj/shaming_is_a_good_thing/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/shaming-is-a-good-thing.15989 https://theredarchive.com/post/15989

Comments