Blaming the victim?

EvilPundit · 2014-12-27T23:18:31+00:00

Rape is always the fault of the rapist.

However, the potential victim can make choices that reduce his or her likelihood of being raped.

How feminists manage to confuse this choice with 'blame' is something I don't understand.

morrispated2 · 2014-12-27T21:20:46+00:00

My position is this: it's risky behavior but a rape is never the victims fault. If you left your car unlocked in a bad neighborhood it's riskier than if you locked it but that doesn't mean it's your fault that someone decided to open your car, it doesn't make it your fault that they saw your things and decided those things were theirs now, it's not your fault that they entered your vehicle without your consent. Maybe you like to leave your car unlocked because you lock your keys in there pretty frequently, maybe it's because you just don't like having to unlock the car when you come back to it, those are all your choice and your choices don't force other people to break laws and violate you in any way. A woman wearing a short skirt or a revealing shirt does not in any way justify anyone in violating her.

mikesteane · 2014-12-27T23:17:01+00:00

My view is that feminists and their henchmen have reduced the serious crime of rape by conflating it with misdemeanours such as sexual assault or harassment for their own agenda. In doing so, they, and not MRAs, white men or any other group, have betrayed real rape victims.

Edit: also note that the only place victims are systematically blamed is in prison: "Got raped in prison? Shouldn't have got himself sent down in the first place."

HugeSaladFork · 2014-12-28T05:42:59+00:00

It's not a woman's fault for being raped regardless of what she is wearing. When people say that she shouldn't be wearing skimpy clothing in a rough neighborhood, I take this not as victim blaming but as prudence. Don't leave your car unlocked in a bad neighborhood, don't walk around with an expensive watch in a bad neighborhood, etc. It's never the fault of the victim in any of these cases if they get robbed or raped, it's just good advice.

Some feminists will say that those criminals should be taught not to rape instead, but this really doesn't make sense. Are you going to teach the carjacker not to steal cars? The watch thief to not steal the watch? They know these things are bad, and do them anyway. Ideally, no one would commit these crimes, but we don't live in an ideal world. Preparing yourself for the bad things that bad people do is just common sense.

Where their side might make sense is if someone said, "She walked down x street and got raped? What an idiot! She deserved it." I have not heard anyone say this. No, she didn't deserve it.

This can get tough though. What if she knowingly walked down a street that was dangerous, scantily clad, and acting especially provocative? She knew there was a high probability of getting raped, she was flirting with danger on purpose. She then gets raped. Does she deserve it now? I believe in personal responsibility and female agency, and think this is a gray area where she needs to accept some but not most of the blame. I still would not say she deserved it though. This is like a person playing with fire. Did they deserve to get burned? No, but they were going beyond foolishness and flirting with disaster.

Just my opinion, I'd like to hear others.

Welcome by the way, there are many ex-feminists here, including me.

Optimist_ · 2014-12-27T21:16:05+00:00

It's about risk management. No one ever says "she deserved it" (any reasonable person anyways), but people might suggest being more proactive before such an event occurs. Things like;

Limit alcohol consumption.
Stick with friends.
Don't hang around people of questionable character.
Dress the part you're trying to convey. Dave Chapelle's comedy on the situation is funny but partly true... "She might not be a whore, but she's wearing a whore's uniform. To a man, that's fucking confusing."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7QNw1LRJv4

It's just being smart like anyone else would under similar risky situations.

MRSPArchiver · 2014-12-27T20:51:07+00:00

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guywithaccount · 2014-12-27T23:37:00+00:00

is it victim blaming to suggest to people that maybe they shouldn't wear their skimpiest clothes, act provocatively, and walk known dangerous streets early in the morning?

It's not victim blaming to say that people should or shouldn't do anything because it affects their likelihood of being raped; that's called "advice".

Victim blaming would be telling individuals who did get raped that it was their fault specifically because of what they did.

The line falls in the blurry area, naturally. If someone wearing a sexy outfit gets raped, is that their fault? Most likely not. Were they stupid for wearing it? Probably not, since people are not dim-witted rape-beasts that try to rape anything that looks sexy. But if they were wearing a sexy outfit at a party where they had 11 drinks and crawled all over someone who was also drunk, and then dragged that other drunk person to a dark bedroom and had sex with them and realized they made a mistake the next morning, is that their fault? Yeah. I can't see how they're not responsible for that.

Also, what are people's thoughts about the Slutwalk?

Slutwalks are fucked up.

AdmiralKuznetsov · 2014-12-28T07:58:31+00:00

Some victims 'ask for it' while others don't, in either case the perpetrator is still to blame.

The__Imp · 2014-12-29T18:31:16+00:00

Like others, I agree that it is never the fault of the victim. The victim, regardless of how lax they are with the measures they take to protect themselves never shares any blame.

That said, some relatively low cost measures to reduce risk are common sense, and can be urged.

Personally, my stand on "victim blaming" is that promoting safety is reasonable and important in a proactive sense. Where it can be potentially problematic is when it is offered after an incident. I believe telling college age students to avoid being blackout drunk in the middle of a field is completely reasonable and promotes their safety. I believe that even an identical statement to a person who was abused or robbed while black out drunk in the middle of a field is a much more negative assertion, and could very well cross the line of victim blaming.

Saying that one should be able to walk naked at night through an alley in a dangerous neighborhood and not fear for our safety is certainly a true statement. And in that same idyllic world I should be able to leave my wallet with $1000 in cash on a bus stop bench in Manhattan and expect it to be returned. Unfortunately we do not live in that world, and recommending steps to minimize risk is prudent and not inherently blaming whatsoever.

ThePigmanAgain · 2014-12-27T21:40:59+00:00

Oh, please...

Title	Blaming the victim?
Author	sagersager1
Upvotes	0
Comments	16
Date	December 27, 2014 8:50 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/2qk4tv/blaming-the-victim/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/blaming-the-victim.1624273 https://theredarchive.com/post/1624273

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