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Friendly debate with red pill community?

[deleted]

January 17, 2015

0 upvotes

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Post Information

Title	Friendly debate with red pill community?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	0
Comments	54
Date	January 17, 2015 5:25 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askTRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/2sqxbr/friendly_debate_with_red_pill_community/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askTRP/friendly-debate-with-red-pill-community.192445 https://theredarchive.com/post/192445

Comments

[–]Addictedtoiron2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]I-love-stories 0 points0 points0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Addictedtoiron4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]I-love-stories -2 points-2 points-2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]REDDITCanSuckMyCOCK 3 points3 points3 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]I-love-stories-4 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]RojoEscarlata2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]frequentlywrong3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]I-love-stories0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]I-love-stories -1 points-1 points-1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

When my friends have an argument with their SO I am often the translator for both sides. I understand how women think and talk probably because I have always been a very emotional person myself.

Girls naturally are more emotionally intelligent than men and more sensitive to nuances in language and communication. Men are more task oriented and are taught a type of logic that is innate to men that one could easily equate to statistical reasoning.

I disagree with TRP for many reasons but I will start with 3 chief points.

From what I have seen, TRP philosophies will result primarily in emotional damage to both the user and receiver in the relationship
TRP philosophies stem from a rather simple school of psychological manipulation that cheapens what it means to be human.
TRP isn't what most men truly want out of their relationships. I will go into more detail if requested.

[–]token_stache2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]I-love-stories -3 points-3 points-3 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Endorsed Contributortepper23 points4 points5 points 11 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]token_stache0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

For me it is, but RP is good for other types of relationships. Here I am speaking more for me than red pill.

I really like being able to be left alone when I want, and never have to consider someone else when I move, when I change careers. I don't like being anywhere or doing the same thing for too long. I don't understand people who want relationships. I am a pretty self contained person, here it's just probably my personality.

I also just don't deeply connect. Wanting to have a relationship to me seems really alien. I just have not and never had any impulse to want to merge my life with another person. Even my friendships which mean allot to me are people I talk to a few weekends out of the month meet up with pretty infrequently (just a couple times a year).

I have a libido though. If I didn't I wouldn't care about interacting with women at all. Here I am different from most RPers. So I just want to fulfill the urge in way where both parties experience a fun time and I don't have to pretend to be something I'm not.

Now going beyond my individual situation

Most RPers actually apply RP very successfully to and/or want LTRs, if you stick around here you'll see it's really different than the reddit sterotype of this place.

I've known a good amount of people. I've been in groups for a myriad of backgrounds. I've seen plenty of LTRs, and almost all of them that weren't red pill like either

Existed on life support with a nice facade and two people begrudgingly together

The woman physically wanting more of a man

The woman cheating

The guy feeling immasculated and often that leading the guy to cheat

I think if you actually tried some of the stuff suggested by rp, you'd be one of the people who'd benefit. You're a good guy, you do the things that pop culture suggests, work out, be funny and that doesn't translate into women being physically attracted to you, because you're missing a vital part, sexual strategy.

[–]frequentlywrong2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]improvy1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

TRP philosophies stem from a rather simple school of psychological manipulation that cheapens what it means to be human.

I think the key point to understand is that humans are heavily indoctrinated and socialized animals and that under the facade of being civil and rational we are deeply and fundamentally moved by pure biological urges. For example, attraction. There should be no reason whatsoever that a regular emotionally mature and intelligent male won't be attracted to a sweet, stable, caring, and interesting morbidly obese woman. I mean, why couldn't you look past that? Are you that shallow? Look at all her other great properties.

The fact of the matter is, attraction is hardcore wired to your monkey brain and no amount of rationalization can change it. Does it cheapens the human experience? Not it does not. It is what it is. Once you learn what woman find attractive in males you can work on those things and improve those, a huge benefit that our gender has which females unfortunately lack.

[–]I-love-stories -1 points-1 points-1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

See this is the kind of debate I wanted. Excellent response.

I would agree with much of what you said but there is an undertone of sexism especially in the last paragraph. Women are not only capable of self improvement, they often embrace it. There is a very clear social dynamic which keeps women in direct competition with other women for the attention of men.

Men may have to fight for the women, but the women have to crawl over eachother to get higher on the pedestal in their own way. Society heavily reinforces this compeitition dynamic to the benefit of men and detriment of women. Women are often deprived of their capacity for maturity and self improvement by this dynamic, but it does not mean that it is not innate to their nature to be driven.

Women often overcome this social dynamic and become successful and driven.

[–]Endorsed Contributortepper20 points1 point2 points 11 years ago [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]improvy0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, once again it might sound sexist but sexist means that women and men are different not the men are better than women.

OK cupid had a great blog post that showed, across the board for all males that they are most attracted to 22-24 year old women. The window of opportunity for most women and the age they are most attractive to males is 20-30. It is not fair, but once again, life is not fair, biology is not fair, you just deal with it.

Women can do some with weight, makeup and clothing, but that's about it. Their beauty genetics such as body figure and face appeal are unchangeable.

Most men don't give two horse shits and a half about a women's current and or future career prospects.

But its not all bad for women, they have it made in the shade in their twenties. They have a very elaborate safety net systems in place. With men its either crash and burn or chase that might dollar like your life depends on it.

[–]UntraceableRP0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Endorsed Contributortepper21 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I understand how women think and talk

Kissless virgin has women figured out. Pack it up guys, nothing more needs to be discussed here.

Girls naturally are more emotionally intelligent

This debate is pointless.

From what I have seen, TRP philosophies will result primarily in emotional damage to both the user and receiver in the relationship

You have never utilized TRP strategy or philosophies in real life, how are you seeing it in action?

TRP philosophies stem from a rather simple school of psychological manipulation that cheapens what it means to be human.

How does self improvement and mastering social interactions cheapen my humanity?

TRP isn't what most men truly want out of their relationships.

Let's drop the bullshit and stop pretending that the kissless virgin knows the first damn thing about relationships, or what I or any other RP man wants.

[–]I-love-stories 0 points0 points0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Endorsed Contributortepper23 points4 points5 points 11 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]I-love-stories0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]bigsexyman3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]token_stache2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Endorsed Contributortepper21 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]I-love-stories0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]I-love-stories -3 points-3 points-3 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Im on mobile so apologies for typos/format.

Well to start off I am in my early twenties and have absolutly no experience with women. This is why I wanted to have this debate. I haven't even kissed a woman, yet I can find evidence in my life to contradict trp philosophys.

Some would call me asexual, but that is only half the truth. I had some bad experiences with bullying and rejection in highschool which have left me with deep insecurities about myself especially in a romantic position.

I defeated these insecurities through self improvement. I lost 80lb, began weightlifting, i play in a band, i am considered highly intelligent, funny, and whatnot.

All of that is to say this. I don't value 'sexual strategy' whatsoever. The satisfaction I have found in my life from work and friendship satisfies me more than enough. I have however payed attention to how other people interact romantically with a deep interest. And very few of the couples I see and interact with fit the model that TRP describes. I can go further into detail on these descrepencies if needed.

[–]Endorsed Contributortepper25 points6 points7 points 11 years ago [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]I-love-stories -1 points-1 points-1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Ok to start I have absolutely no doubt that TRP is effective at what it does. If I wanted to get laid as much as possible, TRP type strategies would be a LARGE part of what I would incorporate. Women are just like men in that they have triggers and sensitivities that can be pushed until they are bent a certain way.

My issue with TRP is from a larger perspective than the merits of sexual strategy. I believe from what I have seen in my life that men don't actually just want to fuck as many women as possible. Some men surely do, but not the majority.

I have seen the transformation that people undergo after becoming 'one' with their SO and its benefits are deeper than what the TRP can offer.

It can be boiled down to this issue. Many members of TRP community have been used by women in a wrongful way. I have read the posts and comments and there is a great deal of hurt in the community. And when you get hurt you have two choices, you can grow or you can lash out.

In a rather ironic way, TRP seems to promote the idea that women are slightly subhuman or at least robotic and programmable. This is counter to the better parts of TRP that champion self-improvement. People are programmable. Men are programmable. But you shouldn't want to mess with their circuitry.

By refusing to acknowledge women as equal to men in this regard, TRP abandons its ideal of self responsibility and improvement for the sake of rather childish straw-man arguments.

(I also want to say thank you for talking. I honestly am sincere that I don't care about convincing you that your beliefs are wrong, this is a much more narcissistic experiment than that. I am hopeful I can learn something from these exchanges. At the very least you can point the community to my posts and say 'this is a great example of thought processes that can keep you a virgin despite having everything else on your side')

[–]Endorsed Contributortepper22 points3 points4 points 11 years ago [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

Ok to start I have absolutely no doubt that TRP is effective at what it does.

Undoubtedly.

My issue with TRP is from a larger perspective than the merits of sexual strategy. I believe from what I have seen in my life that men don't actually just want to fuck as many women as possible. Some men surely do, but not the majority.

If you think TRP is about fucking as many women as possible, you are wrong.

I have seen the transformation that people undergo after becoming 'one' with their SO and its benefits are deeper than what the TRP can offer.

You have not experienced intimacy or a relationship first hand. You have no position to speak on the benefits of whatever methodology for developing relationships that you are claiming to be an expert in. So we'll disregard this part of your argument.

Many members of TRP community have been used by women in a wrongful way. I have read the posts and comments and there is a great deal of hurt in the community. And when you get hurt you have two choices, you can grow or you can lash out.

Many men are used by women, regardless of RP status or awareness. TRP does not advocate "lashing out."

In a rather ironic way, TRP seems to promote the idea that women are slightly subhuman or at least robotic and programmable.

False, TRP does not promote the idea that women are either subhuman or programmable. TRP advocates the uses of sexual strategy in a way that both men and women respond to. TRP acknowledges that the world functions according to a set of rules, and the best way to navigate that world is to know the rule book inside and out so that you can use it to rise above the competition.

By refusing to acknowledge women as equal to men in this regard, TRP abandons its ideal of self responsibility and improvement for the sake of rather childish straw-man arguments.

Men and women are not equal. They are vastly different. You have said this in one of your other responses, so we'll consider this a non-starter.

I am hopeful I can learn something from these exchanges.

I am skeptical. You seem to have a tenuous grasp on things, mainly due to lack of experience, partially due to hubris.

[–]I-love-stories -1 points-1 points-1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Endorsed Contributortepper24 points5 points6 points 11 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]I-love-stories 0 points0 points0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Endorsed Contributortepper22 points3 points4 points 11 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]I-love-stories 0 points0 points0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Endorsed Contributortepper21 point2 points3 points 11 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]I-love-stories1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]AlphaAccountant2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]WishfulTraveler0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]smokingmonkey420 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]I-love-stories0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Huffnagle1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Chinny4daWinny0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I thought that trp was a joke when I first came here, but after being here for a year the stuff actually works, though your mileage may very. What I picked up was to work on building up yourself physically, mentally and financially. Once you're in good standing then feel free to pursue women.

Most guys live for women so they die from the lack of them, as a quote said (sorry for butchering it) If you live for the applause of the people, you die from the lack of it,

You see most guys groveling they can't get women, women hate them, they're evil twisted, etc. But no, the men are basing their worth off of women and they come out looking salty, misogynistic, desperate and angry. This is often what trp is painted by.

In reality, most people who read and apply this live happier lives because they've stopped basing their worth over women, have more success in their lives, and actually get women because they've become successful vs. The old lazy person they used to be, and I'd they don't get the women they don't kill themselves over it. There are many more fish in the sea.

[–]token_stache0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]I-love-stories -1 points-1 points-1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]token_stache0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Travis_McGee2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link