What do you wish you knew before your divorce?

jacktenofhearts · 2016-02-12T02:41:24+00:00

Yo. Divorced guy here.

$1,100 a month for alimony for 8 years

OK, so I Googled some stuff on Illinois divorce law, and this makes no sense. Apparently Illinois standardized alimony calculations in January 2015 and here's one example I saw.

Assume the soon-to-be-ex-husband grosses $50,000 a year, and his wife earns $30,000... Therefore, the husband in this case owes the wife only $2,000 per year under the formula.

For example, for a marriage that lasted five years, the maintenance award would continue for 20 percent of that span, or one year.

http://iln.isba.org/blog/2014/08/18/spousal-maintenance-guidelines-become-law-illinois

Note that this example is not apples to apples to yours, but I have no idea where you got $1,100 a month for 8 years for alimony. Seems like it would be more like $250/month for 2.5 years.

And yeah, there's child support, except in the same link:

Covington noted that the law makes the following changes in addition to the formula:

Specifies that judges must subtract maintenance payments from the payor’s income for purposes of calculating child support.

So whatever you have to pay in alimony, you'll have to pay her proportionately less in child support anyway.

Who the fuck knows though, I'm not a lawyer, I'm just some asshole that spend 30 seconds reading a web page that came up when I googled "illinois divorce law alimony." I'm just copy-pasting all this shit and saying, take a breath and calm the fuck down. Financially, your divorce will probably be an enema, not an ass-rape. Ugly, uncomfortable, unpleasant, something you wish you didn't have to go through and you could get over with as quickly as possible -- but unlikely to financially ruin and scar you permanently. And afterwards, you'll probably feel a lot lighter and happier.

It's just fucking money, dude. You seem financially responsible and it sounds like you've really grinded at your professional life to get where you are. You should absolutely get the best financial and custodial outcome for yourself. But I'm just saying, this will be a pretty fucking annoying process and you'll probably be alternately seized with anxiety or resentment. Take a deep breath, remain calm, talk to your lawyer, and remember: it's just fucking money, dude.

If I can get the kids 50/50 shouldn't that reduce the support I owe her?

Yes. If you provide a parenting plan showing you can supervise, or have arrangements for supervision (daycare, your parents, whatever) for your kids with 50% custody, you'll get it. It's not 1970-whatever, judges don't give a shit about vaginas. Men typically get less custody on average because...

They can't actually make arrangements to supervise their kids for 50% custody.
They actually don't want that much custody (e.g. my son lives with me when he's off from school in the summer, lives with his mom during the school year)
They're a beta loser who let their ex-wives guilt-trip them into a bullshit separation agreement.
They disputed their separation agreement all the way to a court hearing, but the guy did not get appropriate legal counsel and the judge ruled on his wife's proposed agreement by default.

Seriously. You will not get fucked if you do not let yourself get fucked. Remember that.

I'm shooting to come up with a plan then do mediation and have our own lawyers double check the arrangement. Wife and I still have a decent relationship and she appears willing to work with me.

I get what you're trying to do -- avoid you and your wife hiring lawyers that will encourage you to endlessly litigate your assets to $0 -- but based on general 'negotiation theory,' this is not a good idea. Submitting something for mediation means you're going to have to "pre-compromise" -- submitting something with compromises you've anticipated but may not be required. So you'll be negotiating against yourself first, then negotiating in mediation.

My ex-wife and I retained our own lawyers, which cost more in the short run but actually resulted in a cleaner agreement, IMO. You'll see her proposal and she'll see yours and you'll both go, "shyeah, right, no way" and then start horse trading, shit like who gets to declare the kids as a tax deduction. So, for example:

Can I trade her assets to avoid alimony?

This is something you seem eager to do. She, in turn, may be eager for that trade. You also seem eager to reduce your recurring payments. So, in other words, you could offer that -- the equity in your house, or whatever -- in return for something that reduces your long-term recurring outlays. If you go to mediation, this negotiation may not happen. You may have stupidly "per-compromised" that you'd split the equity in the house, and since that sounds cosmetically fair, any more creative negotiation opportunities are lost. Negotiations aren't necessarily zero-sum. If I have a $20 gift card to Starbucks and I hate coffee, and you have $15 in cash, and then we trade -- who won? We both did, right? I valued cash, you valued Starbucks. You both coming up with your own separation agreement proposals will bring these opportunities to the forefront, because it will make you both think about what you really want to have, vs. what you're OK with letting go.

If you communicate with your lawyers in an organized and consistent manner, then you won't end up with huge legal bills. And seriously, there's not really that much money at stake that any lawyer is going to try and psychologically manipulate you just to drive up more legal bills. They will probably just want a streamlined experience just as much as you do, so they can focus their billable hours on the rich fuckers.

Please give me your thoughts as I feel super outgunned and I fear I'm about to get raped and then shackled.

Once again, IANAL, this is not legal advice, but this is the most moderate opinion you'll get in any Red Pill subreddit about divorce. Which means you should log the fuck off Reddit and focus on getting the best legal and personal outcome for yourself, and a bunch of hysterical Red Pillers whining about the US legal system favoring woman, or some bullshit, is not helping.

Remember: You will not get fucked if you do not let yourself get fucked. If you only want a 30 second enema instead of a ten year prison ass-raping, then that's entirely within your control. So get off Reddit. Don't get fucked. And best of luck, fucker.

BluepillProfessor · 2016-02-12T00:59:35+00:00

[permanently deleted]

BluepillProfessor · 2016-02-12T01:54:19+00:00

Basically I think I will be punished 3 times over for being a hard worker.

Before you file for divorce I would have quit my job or at least reduce your hours considerably. Turn on the heat and make her get a job. That is when you file.

Sam Kinisen explained it best:

Start doing drugs, coke out, sell the TV. Be a fucking asshole. Then in about 2 months she comes to you crying and says I have to leave you. Your not the man I fell in love with.

AND SHE GOES AWAY!

It's perfect because she feels like shit cuz she left you...WHEN YOU NEEDED HER MOST. AHHH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Now that you have already filed there are a few things:

No child support if you have JOINT PHYSICAL and LEGAL custody. You said you feel like the primary caregiver? Are you willing to test that?
You are calculating alimony based on your current income and also assuming she doesn't or can't work. She can.
Alimony is 100% negotiable and (if you agree to Joint Custody) so is Child Support.
USE the "willing to work with part" and make sure she knows that you are NOT going to be punished for "working so hard" and that you are reducing hours at work, quitting one of your jobs, etc (careful with the status quo order and check with your lawyer- tell him that you can't take the stress working all those hours and you have to cut back.
Consider getting a therapist to help you deal with the marital dissolution stress and all the hours you are working- your lawyer has a list of "cooperative" therapists who can evaluate you and say whatever you need them to say.
Consider using the equity in the house to buy her out. I would give her the whole $50K in equity if she agrees to joint custody (= no child support). Frame it as your unreliable paychecks vs. a certain and immediate payout.

Good luck.

BluepillProfessor · 2016-02-11T23:45:16+00:00

EDIT: oh wait, I remember you now, we just talked a few days back.. got you mixed up with another guy who couldn't keep the power on his house for a full year. Your was the lesbian wife who slept with an 17,18 year old?

On a side note, stay out of 2xx, nothing of value in there for you

What did your lawyer say? If you're having to pay 2k just because she has vagina, what does it hurt to try it out for a month, spending it on a consult?

I know if you look up divorces here and TRP, some success stories involve the woman being an idiot and he capitalizes...

No one faults you for taking the long game on your decision, that's the smart play, only an idiot flies off the handle before he's ready.

I can't offer you anything from my experience, but I do know my stepfather had his 'operation scorched earth' and paid nothing, started spending his money and hiding it everywhere and anywhere. My mom hasn't really seen any of it. I will give him credit, she didn't really have the urge to fight him for years on account of his stubborn willingness to burn everything to the ground.

BuddhaFett · 2016-02-12T14:48:11+00:00

I got divorced in Illinois, so hopefully I can offer some pertinent advice. I got divorced in a county west of the PEople's republic of Chicago, so depending on where you live, YMMV. My situation was a little different...I was making over $100k/yr and wife was a SAHM. By the end though I was the one taking the kids clothes shopping, putting dinner in the crockpot every morning, helping them with homework and chores, and I ended up getting residential custody. I kept my house, my kids and her dog. Her maintenance is about $1,500/mo for 4 years. She can come back and ask for an extension if she can show it will help her finish school or something, but I stand a pretty good chance of being done after that time period. If she moves in with someone or re-marries, maintenance is done. If she ever gets her shit together and lands a decent job, she'll owe me child support.

First, if she doesn't have a lawyer, go have a consultation with as many top, local divorce firms as you can. That limits her options since they won't be able to represent her.

Second, the courts really do seem to try and look out for the best interest of the children. If you can provide a stable home and good care, talk to your lawyer about a Guardian Ad Litem. That's how I got my kids damned near full time.

Third, listen to your lawyer's advice. There are strategic plays to be made to avoid trial. Let him make them.

Fourth, be careful with mediators. Their job is get both parties to agree, not to represent your best interests. During my divorce I would make an offer to resolve maintenance, child care, etc and if she didn't agree I'd tell her to fuck off and have her lawyer talk to my lawyer.

Lastly, I would dispense with the notion that you have a decent relationship with your wife. If you did you wouldn't be divorcing. This is like dissolving a business partnership with someone you can't trust...go to war, man. My ex was toxic for my kids, so I went to war to protect them, and I'm proof you can win that fight. You really want your kids living 50% of the time with a woman who fucked her boss's granddaughter? If she can't hold a job and isn't the primary caregiver, why should she have the kids 50%? Have you discussed keeping the house and paying out a portion of the equity to her over time? I got mine on a spending allowance and used that to help set maintenance because I could show a history of how much she needs.

Good luck, chief. Happy to answer any questions you might have.

badgrad86 · 2016-02-12T00:14:06+00:00

Is it possible for you to transfer your skills outside of the US? If your skills allow it, I'd personally move but then I have no idea of those ramifications.

2016-02-12T02:11:54+00:00

First, in my opinion the lawyer is not your friend.

Everything in a divorce is negotiable within reason. Assets, custody and alimony are HIGHLY negotiable. Child support less so, and changes to guidelines must be explained to the judge.

If you prove fault, it does not effect the financial settlement.

If you can live together during the divorce, this is a huge financial advantage as there with be no expensive temporary support decree.

Get her to agree to the values of the assets, and, you will have moved through a big hurdle that has crapped up and delayed many divorces.

Getting the house sold is the lynchpin of getting the divorce finished. Start getting it ready to sell now cause this takes time.

From you prior posts, you might have the ability to get her to agree to a reasonable settlement.

Lawyers total costs are huge. You can use this to move her towards do it yourself divorce.

If you are smart enough for the do it yourself divorce and can keep her CALM and negotiate it out, you will come out much better. Make the focus the best interests of the kids - always; this can avert some fights.

From my read of your posts, she can be reasonable. She's gay and wants that and you want better. This would be a good time to have balls of steel and STFU at the same time.

Remember, as long as the kids are under the age of majority, the child support can be changed. She can go back to court for any reason for more child support. Because of this, try to keep things civil if you can. It will pay off for you.

TAKE YOUR TIME, DON"T GET IN A HEADSTRONG RUSH. PLAY NICE BUT FIRM!

If I could have/would have done the above, I would have been thousands of $ ahead and the divorce would have been much smoother for me and my kids.

Edit:u/BluepillProfessor had some great ideas for you too. I think he has considerable experience working in this area. Edit2: As u/Jacktenofhearts points out, do-it-yourself divorce isn't for everyone. With young kids involved it is more complicated.

6TimesDown7TimesUp · 2016-02-12T13:17:42+00:00

Got divorced from my 1st wife in Illinois.

What did I wish I knew?

Got a good lawyer, but should have got him sooner and not mess around with mediation or anything like that.

Sure you guys might have an amicable relationship NOW, but as soon as it comes time to sort things out like custody you need to have a great lawyer on your side.

You HAVE to assume she's going to want her cash and prizes and she's going to want primary custody. Maybe not 100% of the time but AWALT, and if you don't have a good lawyer who is willing to fight for you you do have a very good chance of being fucked.

A lot of it depends on the judge as well, and a good lawyer will help you out if you have a female or blue-pill judge who wants to try to punish you because you're a man.

It happens and almost happened to me, but my lawyer saved my ass from serious divorce rape and being tossed in jail for contempt of court because I didn't have a checkbook on me to write out a fat check that moment for temporary alimony because the female judge literally made up that amount (my lawyer got it overturned eventually) and decided I had to pay right then and there.

Crazy? Sure. Against the law? Sure. But this stuff happens and definitely can happen in the Illinois court system. Judges can have feelz too and decide that they should supersede any rational decision making.

Ended very well for me in the end, but I had a pitbull for an attorney.

Not saying you will have to fight or that it will turn nasty but if you aren't prepared for it to be like that then you are just inviting serious serious problems.

Spend the money now on a good lawyer. Find someone with experience in family law as well as divorce law, ideally someone with several years or more of experience in the Illinois court system.

Good luck.

enfier · 2016-02-11T23:59:28+00:00

This is really going to be a lawyer question.

I'd cut the budget down to just what you are looking to pay. Sell the house, move in somewhere cheap, get an organized and tracked budget going on. Stop working at unsustainable levels and make your expenses match your income instead of the other way around. For example, mowing your own lawn isn't included in the monthly expenses but paying a gardener is. Get creative with it - in source whatever you can like changing your own oil, etc.

From what I understand (which is little) alimony and child support are tied to how much you both spend rather than how much you make. If you can deliver a years worth of budgeted and actual expenses, then maybe it will turn out better for you.

2016-02-12T18:35:38+00:00

I am not divorced, but as part of my unplugging, I went to see a local well known divorce atty, spent a few bucks, and came up with a "most common situation" as well as a couple of "variations"

obviously estimates based on experience of the attorney, but better than "anything can happen"

Trekneck · 2016-02-12T19:55:31+00:00

I didn't divorce her a year ago because I had just bought a house and wasn't ready.

Why would you buy a house DURING the marriage that will have to be split, knowing you're going to divorce her. You could have just waited and saved yourself some trouble.

You really need to be consulting an attorney rather than seeking advice here as far as how things will work out and what you should do. Get a lawyer, that's what you need to do. Preferably one who understands the plight of men in divorce and has a reputation for handling these types of cases.

If you need feedback or help dealing with the divorce itself, this place will help you out a bit. But your legal advice needs to be obtained from legal counsel before you even consider moving forward.

Coolbeans024ptf · 2016-02-12T20:20:11+00:00

Not a divorced guy here, but am a lawyer. I'm not a family lawyer but I know plenty of them, I know many divorced guys, and I also went to visit my family lawyer as part of my unplugging.

The number one problem in divorces, I'm told, is that the man just wants it over with. "How soon, and how much?" are the questions these lawyers say men ask them. They want it done and over with, yesterday. They don't want to pay a lot; and they don't want to make a lot of decisions.

That brings me to the next point. The other major problem, from what people tell me, is that men in divorces are so tied up in anxiety, anger, fear, resentment, pain, and other negative emotions, that they are unable to make decisions. This causes them to delay or agonize, which leads to poor decisions and unfavorable decisions.

Think of it this way. Your marriage is a business that will be ceasing operations and going out of business. That business is being dissolved and its affairs wound up. The business' assets will be liquidated, sold or given to the former principals (you and your wife). The bills and debts of the business must be paid. The "employees" (the kids) have to be paid and provided for, sometimes long term. They need a place to live and they need continuity of care, and that needs to be done first and foremost, and it needs to be carried out with dispatch.

This means that you have to be in a position and mindset to make hard, cold decisions. You have to be in it to win, you have to be willing to concede what must be conceded, you have to document what has happened and what is happening, and you have to fight for what you want and need. DOing that means you have to get your head and your ass into the game, you have to set emotions aside, swallow pride sometimes, and be ready to make hard business decisions.

KyfhoMyoba · 2016-02-13T17:53:41+00:00

she fucked her bosses granddaughter

OK, so she's bi. Why don't you bring home something for both of you to share?

Title	What do you wish you knew before your divorce?
Author	Coolbeans024ptf
Upvotes	21
Comments	34
Date	February 11, 2016 11:10 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MarriedRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/45bnx0/what_do_you_wish_you_knew_before_your_divorce/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/what-do-you-wish-you-knew-before-your-divorce.200353 https://theredarchive.com/post/200353

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