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Argument - critique requested

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wildnight98
January 27, 2018
7 upvotes
askMRP

Her: Where were you?

Me: Taking /son/ to the competition.

Her: It took you an hour?

Me: The truck’s gas light was on.

Her: You went to Starbucks? (obviously, because I have a cup in my hand)

Me: Yes.

Her: You mean you went to Starbucks and didn’t get me anything? (true)

Me: Yes. (admitting it)

Her: You didn’t bother asking your sick wife if she wanted anything?

Me: I’m sorry—I didn’t think of it.

Her: (astounded facial expression) This is our problem! You want to know why we don’t have a sex life?! Because you don’t give a shit, that’s why!

Me: Would you like me to go get you something from Starbucks?

Her: That’s not the point! The point is that you don’t show any emotion, and all I want is to know that my husband gives a shit about me.

Me: (approaching) Of course I care about you…

Her: (backing away, hands raised aggressively) Oh no! It’s too late for that buddy! And (starts with loud fast something that I can’t remember, kids about six feet away)

Me: Please moderate your tone or I am not having this conversation.

Her: I will not moderate my tone! …

Me: (walking away and sitting down in next room)

Her: (coming into next room, continuing to argue but slightly lower tone, still scolding and angry)

Me: I told you I’m not having this conversation unless we can talk like adults.

Her: I did moderate my tone! I am talking like an adult! … (restarts argument, whatever it was)

Me: (walks out of room)

Aftermath: she went into bathroom, slammed door, took shower. Sulking.

 

  Self-critique:

  1. While it didn't seem that way in the moment, reading the transcript seems like I was somewhat autistic. It felt during the argument that she was trying to get me to act remorseful, and I was not remorseful, so I kept my tone casual. But it also seems like being "unemotional" inflamed the conflict.
  2. I thought I avoided the larger emotional argument well, which wouldn't have produced any closure anyway unless I begged for forgiveness.
  3. I avoided DEERing.
  4. She acknowledged that we don't have a sex life, which is funny because generally when we talk about this problem (rarely) she gaslights me by overestimating how often we have sex (her: once a week) and asserting that once a week is "very often" according to her expert sources.
  5. She observed that it seems like I don't give a shit; autistic or DGAF working properly?  

This is the first argument where I felt like I stayed in frame throughout, even though I sense that my performance was not perfect. Thoughts welcome. Helmet on.

EDIT: everybody seems hung up on my not getting the coffee. So, more background. True, she was sick, but not dying. I was running the errands, so she could finger fuck her phone on the couch because she doesn’t feel good, but which didn’t stop her from suggesting an outing for later in the day. All of which she knew perfectly well. It wasn’t convenient to get her the coffee because it was my second stop of five. She hasn’t been treating me well lately and has not earned any “crew rewards.” I think what she was really upset about is that I was gone for an hour and she thought I’d be back faster.


Post Information
Title Argument - critique requested
Author wildnight98
Upvotes 7
Comments 60
Date 27 January 2018 02:55 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/204890
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/7td48c/argument_critique_requested/
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Comments

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret24 points25 points  (12 children) | Copy

EDIT: I am not a fan of how people are interpreting ownership in this thread. She isn't the judge, keeping her level and content isn't a goal, and I don't get how a nagging wife is a lack of leadership. Fuck. start acting like your the king dick of the house, this ain't choreplay.

Subtext, she wants to be thought of whenever you're doing shit. If I understand correctly, she's not fucking you, or at least not in a frequency you'd prefer. I assume that you're not wanting 7 days instead of 6, so with that said...

This was power talk. She saw a reason to resent you for not doing something right. This is how women who aren't attracted to men justify (hindd brain, not front brain) cheating/leaving. Think of the rule that a woman makes excuses for an alpha, and rules for a beta. She probably didn't even want a coffee, but a great opportunity to get the upper hand on you socially.

Of course, she's a shitty wife to you at the moment, so you don't give a fuck if she feels warm and fuzzy (which I wouldn't in your place). So, frame it that way. Of course, you can't just say that out in the open, because then you're telling her you'll buy her tons of coffee if she fucks you. That would make her a hooker, which she doesn't want to be. So, assuming you want more frequent sex, and she's the girl you're gaming, you frame it like that.

she shits on you for being a selfish asshole. You do not give a fuck, in fact, ignore her premise. Asking where you took your kid is a reasonable question, moms love that. Of course, once you said it, why it took so long is none of her damned business. verbal intercourse is optional. Fog that shit. "Well, what time is it now?" and if it's an hour, "I guess I did, hmm." and carry on with your day. Is that a starbucks? I wouldn't even answer. It's obvious it's a starbucks, she doesn't want to know if it's a starbucks, this was bait, and you took it. Didn't bother asking your sick wife? (shaming). "Nope". You didn't ask, own it. Why do you care if she's happy that you're getting coffe with your son, without her? Coffee is for closers, and she ain't closing.

And as for all that shit, pressure flip. She wants to know her husband gives a shit about her. "Why wouldn't I give a shit about you babe?" Putting it on her. Either she admits she isn't a good wife to you (she won't) or she will shut up, a tacit understanding that she's not acting to your satisfaction. You aren't mad about it, but you aren't ignoring the elephant in the room. You're establishing that your affestion, attention, and commitment arne't unconditional, and that she can't bully, or shame you into doing what she wants.

Soon as she raises her voice? Pause, look down at your son, and tell him that you and mommy have to have an adult conversation, and to go into the other room. Stare at her. you should be annoyed, because you don't want her acting like that in front of the kids (I assume). Her want for you to supplicate to her whims does not override your need not to be shitty parents. Explain that in as few words as possible. "We aren't from the trailer park, don't do that"

And if she continues to spiral out of control, you can just be elsewhere.

theme

the theme here is you understanding powertalk, manipulation, and using your relationship toolbox to assert what you want, while not ceeding ground where you don't. And, most importantly, you will not apologize for not doing favours for someone who isn't acting to your standard. Granted, this sounds scripted and aspie, but if you're not used to it, thats how you got to do it for now, internalize it when you get better.

And then, once this is all over. Forget about it completely. I mean just that, you have no recollection of any of this conversation, pay it no mind. Dwelling and sulking is her deal, drinking dollar coffee is yours. And if she escalated farther than you're ready for, go do another workout, or just say 'I'm grabbing you a coffee' and go for a drive. come back without the coffee, you forgot that too.

[–]Red-Curious3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is the answer right here.

she isn't the judge

I'm pretty sure I made a whole post on this.

either she admits she isn't a good wife to you (she won't) or she will shut up

Meh, in my experience, they actually end up hamstring themselves out instead of either of these. They'll rattle off a long list of ways that they "contribute" and assume that you should be bowing at her feet for doing all of this. In the face of the facts, this list is usually objectively irrational, but no need to DEER.

The real issue is that when most men get this list they're too afraid to say what they're really thinking: "You left sex of your list. Until it's on, I don't give a crap whatever other contributions you think you're making." Tact in the exact wording can help, of course. But the paralyzing fear of being called sexist or accused of reducing her too "a piece of meat" is too much for some guys.

I remember the first time I went there. It was liberating. Wife responds, "You only want me for my body!" You could take the easy AA there, but I find it far more effective to NI that sucker all the way. It usually reveals that she's insecure about whether she has anything of substance to offer you. Once she's in that vulnerable place, THAT'S when you AA to the comfort test: "Of course you do. In fact, let's go prove it right now. We'll make it so good you'll never doubt yourself again."

Now, in reality she wants to know that she has worth to you beyond just sex. No falling for that trap, even if it is in the context of a legit comfort test, otherwise OP will hear those things pop up on that list every time and she'll refrain, "But you told me you did value these things about me!" as her excuse for being allowed to leave sex off the list. This is no different than last time ... AA or NI into an AA. Done.

[–]WesternhagenWinner2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

in my experience, they actually end up hamstring themselves out instead of either of these. They'll rattle off a long list of ways that they "contribute" and assume that you should be bowing at her feet for doing all of this.

Yup. Absolutely. Can confirm. One time when wife said she was contributing everything she should, I asked her: "write your own performance review as a wife - tell me what you think your wife goals are, and grade yourself on your performance". Her response was fascinating, as I knew it would be. Hamster went into overdrive.

(No, I wasn't doing this "seriously" like an aspie, I asked her to do this for my own amusement.)

The real issue is that when most men get this list they're too afraid to say what they're really thinking: "You left sex of your list. Until it's on, I don't give a crap whatever other contributions you think you're making."

Exactly. You better believe "provide sexytime to husband" was not one of my wife's goals on her self-written performance review, nor was there any evident awareness that if she "fails to meet required outcomes" on that goal, I really don't care how great she is at everything else.

[–]BobbyPeru2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

And if she escalated farther than you're ready for, go do another workout, or just say 'I'm grabbing you a coffee' and go for a drive. come back without the coffee, you forgot that too.

Lol that’s why they pay you the big bucks - beautiful

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Amen. Nice overview.

Op remains deep deep in wifes' frame.

The fucking title, even... still arguing with the spouse.

[–]RedPillCoach0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You should make this into a post: "Power Talk and Reframing for the Shitty Wives and Spergs." This could even be the beginning of that step-by-step guide everybody wants.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Working on it. There's a ton of work self learning a degree in clinical psychology you know

[–]Alpha_Engineer99-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

From his post history and by the way he avoids her before he leaves the house, instead of slapping that sweet ass goodbye, I can tell he is Pussy.

He’s only been at this for about 3 months but still avoids all comments about his frame or leadership, he simply refuses to answer them.

It’s because he is 50 years old and he is still looking for the answer in a higher power (on a christian sub) for an answer... instead of going within.

I was there and this is what I discovered: When you go within, you end up finding out that the answers are simple, it’s all knowable, to live deliberately , to live joyfully, and to change those things in our lives that suck.

We haven't been put here by a God to be tested, judged, and sentenced.... instead, we are here to follow our bliss, discover our joys, to learn and become more, to tap thy asses, to face our challenges , and be MORE because of them... they're not problems but invitations for greatness. Then, all of a sudden, it’s about an incredible journey, a feast, banquet, instead of an arduous testing period where god decides who gets what, when, and where..

All of those old notions rob us of our own power. They were never true to begin with.

Wife sees him as a loser Judiging from the recoil.

God isn’t the answer. Religion is man made, made up to control you and keep the masses in check.

[–]HATEFULretard2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ur biblical knowledge is lacking. His faith doesn't conflict with what he is trying to do . If anything a biblical male exibits rp qualities

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, he should ignore that shit too, that shits weak.

[–]wildnight98MRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don’t know what religion has to do with this. You made some kind of connection that isn’t there. The world is the world, whether you believe God made it or not. Up to us to figure out how it works and our place in it.

[–]hystericalbonding8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy

It wasn't about the coffee, it was about your shitty track record.

My wife likes Starbucks, and we have the surplus cash for it. If I happen to be near there, I'll offer to pick something up. A good captain looks for opportunities to reward the crew, not every time, but where appropriate.

I thought I avoided the larger emotional argument well

No. The larger argument is the point. If you don't have the frame to handle the underlying argument, then you shouldn't engage in the superficial one. In fact, you should almost never engage in the superficial one.

Anything that doesn't fit your frame is amusing, interesting, or irrelevant. The fact that you felt challenged by it is a reflection of your lack of frame. Right now you're in the mode of trying to win at shit tests. This stuff is week 1 of MRP - NMMNG, WISNIFG, Pook.

[–]wildnight98MRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I didn’t think of getting her coffee because it was an early stop in my errands. Had it been a later or last stop, I would have. As to rewards, she hasn’t earned any.

As far as the argument, I did not argue or engage. I fogged and broken recorded.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

you didn't. you aquiessed and DEERed, in your original statement and this response.

this need you have for everyone to know your motivation? it's holding you back

[–]hystericalbonding1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I did not argue or engage

So that wasn't a rough transcript of your argument with her?

 

Edit: there are many ways to defuse a situation like this in front of the kids. Some examples:

Her: You didn’t bother asking your sick wife if she wanted anything?

Me: They ran out of chicken soup.

Her: (backing away, hands raised aggressively) Oh no! It’s too late for that buddy! And (starts with loud fast something that I can’t remember, kids about six feet away)

Me: Please moderate your tone or I am not having this conversation.

Her: I will not moderate my tone!

Me: (walking away and sitting down in next room)

Me: (calmly) Come with me. (take her to different room to discuss - changing terms of engagement to my own while protecting the kids)

Her: (coming into next room, continuing to argue but slightly lower tone, still scolding and angry)

Jack addressed the problems with indiscriminate STFU here. You've been here a while, but you're still sprinkling a little alpha on it without changing your mindset. You're also repeatedly getting hung up on insignificant details and missing the big picture in your interactions here and with your wife. It's the same problem.

[–]Big_Daddy_PDX0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is an example of DEERing btw. It’s a good practice to avoid.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

“It took you an hour?”

“Yes” and then you walk away.

[–]DanceMonkeeDanceRed Beret6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

"You didn't get anything for your sick wife? "

You want my cup when I'm finished?

[–]Alpha_Engineer992 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Good, now edit your post again. Don’t fucking talk about coffee this time:

Where are you in YOUR map? How long been at this? Sidebar? Sex life? OYS?

I used to make the classic mistake in my beta years of saying “I’ll be back in a hour dear”.. and shit would come up and then she would get all pissy with me if I was “late” 1.25 hours instead of 1 hour.

Next time you leave the house, try not giving a specific time you’ll be back, even if you didn’t .. still set the frame as if you are leaving to drop the kid off and then taking care of some business at Home Depot or whatever, don’t even give an excuse, etc. you are a man and will be back when You do. You are NOT on her time clock.

[–]cm-man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Great point man. I can relate so well to this shit...

[–]DanG37 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy

“Her: (astounded facial expression) This is our problem! You want to know why we don’t have a sex life?! Because you don’t give a shit, that’s why!”

You: “Let’s go to Starbucks now. I’ll bend you over in the unisex restroom and grab a coffee for you on the way out.” 😶

Yes, I say (and do) shit like that and she loves it!

[–]Alpha_Engineer990 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Love it.. I say shit like this all the time now and she eats it up, never thought in a million years I could say shit like this to my wife. Not my princess...

He is too early to pull this off, he has a deeper issue to handle first. No leadership. When she said that he doesn’t give a shit, she means he isn’t a MAN. It was a kick to his balls. By the way she recoiled back and raised her arms up in disgust, he repulses her.

She sees him as a man child.

I garauntee that she was in her bed waiting for him to come check on her before he left to bring their son to the competition. She knew about the damm competition, why wouldn’t she know? just wanted too see if duesh bag would step up.

But he didn’t. And then He came back with a nice cup of joe for himself. Captain only watching out for himself and he isn’t even attractive to her. Hence, the recoil.

[–]DanG30 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I agree, it’s likely too early. However, we ALL need to always be working on a library of humorous comebacks and techniques to flip their efforts to over-inflate the value of sex. “Its just sex. There are vaginas everywhere!”

[–]wildnight98MRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I was trying to think of something funny and came up empty. This is priceless. Thanks.

[–]weakandsensitive3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Wtf? You think canned line's are going to help you?

The reason it's so easy for him and so hard for you is because it's internalized for him and you're a total poserl

[–]wildnight98MRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

No, I don't think canned lines are going to help. You can't possibly remember them anyway. But trying to get your head around the frame of thinking -- could a conflict like this possibly be funny? How? That's where a suggestion like the above helps. As far as being a "poser"--I really have no idea what you're talking about. I'm claiming no authority on anything..?

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Know why it's hard to think of something? Because you're trying to ping off of what she gives you. If you want to be able to speak off the cuff, it has to come from your frame. then you don't have to prepare something on the spot, it can be a natural response

[–]wildnight98MRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I’m confused by your question. I did not defend, explain, excuse, or deny the facts. I didn’t discuss the feelz. My comments were short and process oriented. When she got unpleasant I took away my presence and attention. .?

[–]rocknrollchuck8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

Her: It took you an hour?

Me: The truck’s gas light was on.

Explain.

Her: You didn’t bother asking your sick wife if she wanted anything?

Me: I’m sorry—I didn’t think of it.

Excuse.

Her: That’s not the point! The point is that you don’t show any emotion, and all I want is to know that my husband gives a shit about me.

Me: (approaching) Of course I care about you…

Defend.

I avoided DEERing.

No, you didn't.

[–]wildnight98MRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Dammit, you're right. Thanks, this was really helpful.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I would have fucking lost it doubled over laughing at

Oh no! It’s too late for that buddy

I mean...I wouldn't have let the conversation get that far. But that is God damn hilarious!

[–]screechhaterRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Stupid fuck. Kix is for kids.

You are a drunk son of a bitch. Good luck to you

Moderate your stupidity

Do you even lift ? Read ?

[–]wildnight98MRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

<deleted-wrong place>

[–]Alpha_Engineer991 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Shut the fuck up. Sidebar ===>

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Her: Where were you? Me: Taking /son/ to the competition.

This is your first mistake. You lost the frame here. By responding to her like this, she has the dominant frame that you are in.

Her: It took you an hour? Me: The truck’s gas light was on.

Wow, DEER city!

Her: You went to Starbucks? (obviously, because I have a cup in my hand) Me: Yes.

I love it when they state the obvious. You could have said many other things here, but it's not what you say, it's how you say it - so much is communicated nonverbally.

Her: You didn’t bother asking your sick wife if she wanted anything? Me: I’m sorry—I didn’t think of it.

Reread the Commandments of Poon - https://heartiste.wordpress.com/the-sixteen-commandments-of-poon/ , and tell us which one you violated.

Her: (astounded facial expression) This is our problem! You want to know why we don’t have a sex life?! Because you don’t give a shit, that’s why!

HERE COME THE FEELZ!

Me: Would you like me to go get you something from Starbucks?

What a terrible response. Geez, man, this is messed up. YOU NEED TO STFU here because otherwise you're digging your own grave, and you don't have the frame or SMV or anything else to speak up.

Her: That’s not the point! The point is that you don’t show any emotion, and all I want is to know that my husband gives a shit about me. Me: (approaching) Of course I care about you…

You are utterly and completely in her frame here. You could have pressure flipped, agreed and amplified, fogged, anything...

The rest of it was ok.

You need a whole ton of work.

[–]RuleZeroDADRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I saw the word argument in the title, and the "talk" was more than four lines long.

Wrong by default, no content examination required.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Am I confusing you with some other wn98 or didn’t you just say the other day that you had Nexted your wife and am spinning plates

[–]wildnight98MRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Um no. Too early for me for that kind of move. Right now, stay plan is the same as the go plan.

[–]WesternhagenWinner0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Before leaving the house: "Where are you going, what are you doing, when will you be back, who will you be with?"

After returning to the house: "Where did you go, what did you do, who were you with, why did you take so long, why didn't you do X for me?"

Those are the nagging interrogations I'd get from my mom when I was a teenager.

If they sound familiar, it's because your wife is treating you like she is your mother and you are her feckless teenage son.

[–]RedPillCoach0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Me: Please moderate your tone or I am not having this conversation.

Do you think this is strong in any way? It sounds like a school teacher demanding to use "inside voices."

She has a very good point. Mindfulness is the key to attraction in marriage and you were not mindful. Lesson learned? Why wouldn't you just give her a kiss and shrug: "You fucked up, you trusted me." Why is it a big deal? Could it have something to do with you caring about fixing her feelings so much?

[–]matrixtospartanatLVRed Beret0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Coffee.

Coffee?

Really?

You wrote more about the coffee than the instructions the barista had to follow to make that shit.

My wife complains about not getting shit when I’m out.

2 of the kids who stayed home complain about not getting shit when the 2 that went with me did.

It’s now a family saying, and spreading, “Must be present to win.”

She’s (not that) sick.

What....if she had to go to the doctor she’d call a fuckin’ helicopter because she’s too sick to ride in a car?

Dude, ‘coffee’ is not your problem and bringing her coffee is not the solution.

[–]wildnight98MRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Must be present to win rocks. You’re right, coffee is not my problem. Right now I’m locked in a titanic power struggle and she is the only one fighting.

[–]matrixtospartanatLVRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Ok, you got me. You sucked me in.

I’ve read all your posts from the first one 113 days ago to the one 26 days ago to this one. You’ve read the entire sidebar except for WOTSM? And probably finished that one by now, too.

Well counselor, you failed.

You did not ingest and embrace the intent of the course material in becoming a man, you are failing the quizzes and unit tests, the final exam is coming and with your current display of your understanding of MRP, you are going to fail it, too.

First, I am not an attorney hater. I only hate the one who authored the instrument indirectly responsible for the death of my 17yo son. Long story, some other time.

My post history is short if you care to know who I am. My comment history is much longer if you care. Forgive me, I’ve been drinking and I digress.

You are a litigating attorney. I find it difficult to believe your wife is the only one fighting in your titanic power struggle.

In the octagon of life the only way to win a fight with a woman is NOT to get into the fucking ring.

Time and time again I see males (not yet men) come in here, muscled, monied, bad ass motherfuckers in life getting less pussy than I am, a 56yo, fat, diabetic, blood clot ridden high school dropout blue collar worker with stretch marks and varicose veins.

Why?

You found out it’s not about your education, your status, your money, or anything else tangible.

It’s about your masculinity. And yours is weak.

You missed the intent of the sidebar.

You missed the basics, the subtleties, the nuances. You may have memorized it, can even argue the points of it, but you don’t UNDERSTAND it and haven’t internalized it.

You’re a smart motherfucker. But the ability to regurgitate information is only perceived intelligence. True intelligence is being able to take the information, think about it deeply on many different levels, and apply it abstractly to new situations and ways of thinking.

From WOTSM, you are not being the mountain. You are acting like the sands in shifting winds. You are like the waves of the sea created in the midst of the storm.

And it’s not your fault. You have been trained intellectually to behave this way. To respond to opposing counsel, to parry, thrust, even duck and cover, and return fire.

You must become the mountain. You must become a man, INSIDE and out. You must become strong, immovable, stoic, able to withstand all that she (nature) throws against you. She will bake you in her sun, freeze you under her ice, shroud you in clouds, soak you with rain.

You get to feel hot, cold, darkness and wet.

But the mountain doesn’t move, does it?

It doesn’t fight back, does it?

As a man, when you are in the blazing sun you put on sunscreen. When you’re cold you put on a coat. When it’s raining you open an umbrella.

When was the last time YOU successfully changed the weather?

Remember the octagon I mentioned earlier?

You want to be with a woman?

You get in the octagon as a mountain. A rock. You plant yourself right in the middle of that motherfucker and let her be a woman.

Sometimes she’s going to beat on you. Sometimes she’s going to yell at you. Sometimes she’s going to climb all over you.

And when she’s done, convinced of your strength and steadfastness as a man, she is going to curl up next to you and submit to you.

Once in awhile she will have to remind herself of your strength, but it won’t matter, because you are the rock, the mountain.

Now, counselor, that’s what I got out of the WOTSM after my third time through.

Go back to the sidebar.

Start over, from the beginning, and pay closer attention.

If a cup of coffee can change the nature of your relationship, you’re not being a mountain; you’re no tougher than that fucking paper cup the coffee is in.

From what I’ve seen, it’s easier for a fat, nicotine addicted fapping alcoholic to give up drinking, smoking, porn, and the fucking twinkies than it is for a smart motherfucker like you with money to kill your fucking ego and become a real man.

You got unhinged by a cup of coffee.

Go back to the sidebar.

Do it again.

Before it’s too late.

It’s not a matter of whether you can or can’t...

But whether you will,

or won’t.

[–]captainVSI0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

IMO you didn’t avoid DEERing when you said “I’m sorry, I didn’t think of it”. Own that you fucked this interaction up, learn from it for the next time.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Own that you fucked this interaction up,

what exactly did he fuck up? A chick who isn't fucking him wants to be thought of and pandered to whenever he gets a coffee on a whim.

Ownership isn't about enabling shitty behaviour, for fuck sakes

[–]captainVSI-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah I spoke too broadly. More so talking about the apology he made. But I already addressed that. The entire interaction was not botched.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dunno if it's that kind of interaction. It seems like an iterated prisoners dilemma

[–]wildnight98MRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I don’t think I succeeded but wasn’t sure why. That’s why I asked.

Yeah, the sorry slipped out. But I didn’t get into the whole explanation that coffee was an early stop in several errands so there was no point in asking anybody. I guess I avoided DEERing to that extent.

[–]captainVSI-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

In my difficult situations I quickly say to myself “what would Picard do?”

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

She just wanted something to bitch about in response to what's probably a lack of leadership on your part in the general sense, and it's most likely not about the time it took or the coffee. FYI, I wouldn't have gotten her a coffee in that situation either.

I avoided DEERing.

You DEERed at least twice, once over why you didn't get her coffee and once over why it took so long. Here are two alternatives:

Her: It took you an hour? You: Yeah

Or

Her: You mean you went to Starbucks and didn’t get me anything? (true) You: Yeah. Her: You didn’t bother asking your sick wife if she wanted anything? You: No, I was too busy trying to get a blowjob from the gay barista.

I found a third one, you got defensive:

Her: That’s not the point! The point is that you don’t show any emotion, and all I want is to know that my husband gives a shit about me. You: I told him we had to wait until you were feeling better so that you could hold his hair out of the way.

You sound like you've made progress, but you haven't made as much progress as you think. You're still in her frame.

[–]Alpha_Engineer99-2 points-1 points  (4 children) | Copy

Yep, not about the coffee. About the lack of leadership.

She is sick, right ?

So... you left the house, didn’t check on her? Didn’t see if she needed something? didn’t tell her you’ll be out for a while at the competition? Just left quietly?

Missed a chance for leadership. A captian always checks on the well being of his crew. Start acting like a fucking man who is in charge, stop avoiding her.

If she was sick and treating you well lately, get her some fucking coffee or some flowers or something.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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