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Need advice/guidance please

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donerkebabplease
March 2, 2016
9 upvotes
askMRP

I've been married 15 years, have two kids, just bought a house. I have only just discovered MRP in the last couple of weeks and it's struck every chord imaginable. I need a little help with a situation and don't know where to turn. My wife wakes up every morning in a bad mood, I've come to expect and accept it, I now STFU and watch, knowing it will pass, it always does. This morning, I did something miniscule to put her under pressure, she asked me (like a bitch) to go away so she could finish what she was doing (she has OCD and can get into unstoppable loops). I walked into the other room and waited until she was finished, this was about 15 seconds (no harm done), I remain in frame. I walk back into the kitchen and she steps outside for a cigarette, I didn't follow her, she's been a bitch so I don't want to be in her company in that state, I don't want to give that behaviour any attention and I'm trying to STFU. When she sees I'm not coming, she becomes more bitchy and asks why I'm trying to bait her. I tell her I'm not, nothing more, When she comes back from her cigarette, I get up to go and have mine, and she tries to talk about what happened earlier, I stop for a second to see what it is she has to say but can see she just wants to berate me for not knowing I shouldn't have pressured her so I walk away to have my cigarette. I step outside the front door and close it and she locks it behind me, locking me out of the house at 6 in the morning. I maintain frame the entire time, she steps outside to smoke again and tries to bait me but locks the door behind her with the key. She then stands aggressively looking at me, I decided at the time the best course of action is to walk away, so I start walking. I walk for about an hour before heading home, hoping for best case scenario (she acts like nothing has happened) but knowing I'll have more when I get home. I walk in the door, and go to brush my teeth and she follows me. She baits me into an argument and I maintain frame for a good 20 minutes before she knows she's losing so she resorts to shaming me for previous mistakes and here's where I got angry, I should've seen it coming but it was too late, situation escalated. I had to leave for work, so I did, last thing I saw as I was out the door was the tears. Now I don't know what to do, she's sent me one text that's a bait attempt, I replied with "This is too much, it will never be ok no matter how hard I try". She has just now replied "OK Yeah". Do I just ignore? do I find somewhere else to stay tonight? Do I go home and act like nothing happened?

UPDATE

Firstly, thanks everyone for their advice, I really appreciate it. I don't have any kind of support network and it's nice to have people that understand the situation/problem to talk to about this.

I text her advising that we needed to talk when I got home. She got a little concerned and tried to make me tell her over text. I told her it needed to happen face to face. She suggested a neutral venue for the discussion. I suggested our local pub. She was reluctant but I ignored this. I ignored a few more shit test texts and drove to the local pub, from there, I text her that I was there if she wanted to talk.

She arrived and I started off telling her that I was at the end of my rope, I recognised my failures and that my poor leadership was to blame for the mess she was in. I took responsibility for all of it and said it was my job to fix it and I was going to do just that.

The spoilt brat in her wouldn't accept it, she tried to tell me that I hadn't recognised all my failures because I was still doing them and I hadn't accounted for her feelings this morning! I get locked out of my own house at 6am and I'm not taking her feelings into account! She told me I wasn't being what she needed as a husband (something I just took responsibility for) and I needed to stop being so "arrogant".

I got a little tired of it all, she was just being a brat about it all. It started to escalate, by this point I'd had enough of her, I left the pub. I could see it was going nowhere and she needs to know I'm serious about it.

I ended up spending the night in a hotel not far from my house. I had a beer, did some push-ups and read some sidebar material. In all honesty, it felt good to be out of her orbit.

I know now I shouldn't have done this but I sent one more text before bed which went something like this -

I don't know many guys that would admit their failings as a man, let alone attempt any kind of self-improvement to become a better one. You have just thrown away the one person that was willing to accept his failings and change. I'm disappointed by your bratty perspective on all of this, I thought you were better than that. I will be better with or without you, I'd rather it be with you.

I've not yet had a reply and I'm not going to say any more about it.


Post Information
Title Need advice/guidance please
Author donerkebabplease
Upvotes 9
Comments 65
Date 02 March 2016 12:46 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/207630
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/48lzk2/need_adviceguidance_please/
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[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (14 children) | Copy

she has OCD and can get into unstoppable loops

Diagnosed or 'self proclaimed'?

I tell her I'm not

Were you though? With everything you wrote up to this point, it seems you were in your head the entire time trying to 'analyze' the situation.

Why didn't you just go do something else or get yourself ready for the day? You don't need to 'wait 15 seconds'.

She's being a bitch? Fucking do your own thing.

I maintain frame for a good 20 minutes before she knows she's losing

Negative, this is all fucked up.

Do I just ignore? do I find somewhere else to stay tonight? Do I go home and act like nothing happened?

Holy fuck dude, you need to realign your entire perspective on your situation.

Let's start at the beginning. What have you read post or book wise?

How long have you and your wife been like this?

How old are your kids?

Are you happy?

Do you truly want to improve, more than anything?

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 0 points1 point  (13 children) | Copy

Diagnosed or 'self proclaimed'?

Diagnosed.

Were you though?

I really wasn't, I was trying to STFU and not give her attention when she's being rude to me.

Why didn't you just go do something else or get yourself ready for the day?

I should have done exactly that, you're right. Thank you.

What have you read post or book wise?

I've read NMMNG, practically all illimitable men, rationalmale, familyalpha has to offer, the 300 top posts all time on r/MarriedRedPill. We've been like this for a good 10 years I'd say, it's not all been bad, we've had some good spells lasting for months and months. The kids are 6 and 18. I'm going to be honest, I'm not happy with the current situation, I've accepted it's all my fault, I'm 100% committed to making it better. I truly do want to improve, my first step in all of this is to STFU, during this first few weeks (since discovering MRP), I'm trying to internalise alot, and watch her more than anything, trying to remain in frame. I really do appreciate your reply, thank you.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy

Alright, since you put some effort into your post and reply, I'm willing to continue this trip down the rabbit hole.

Are you a man worthy of following and respecting?

What is your Ht/Wt?

Have you ever considered that you deserve better? Have you internalized that you should be the prize and that your time and attention has value?

You seem like a shell, you have a body but you're hallow inside. A man who just wants the world to be the way he hoped it would be.

That's not the reality.

Now, nowhere did I say you need to walk around with your chest out demanding submission, etc. You haven't earned any of that.

What you need to do is draw some boundaries that you will enforce.

You seem to be at the end of your rope and your wife seems like a fucking psychotic bitch.

But, you started a family with her, you became weak, so I believe you owe it to her to try and mend this.

Go home and tell her that you're at the end of your rope. Tell her that you recognize your failures and that you understand that her being a fucking mess is a result of your poor leadership, then tell her you're going to fix it and that she is never to lock you out of your house again or you will end the marriage.

Now, you can pick whatever action. If she hits you then go with that if she screams or berates you in front of the kids, go with that.

What matters is you pick an action and you tell her that it will not happen again.

Then pick another action and enforce it, don't threaten divorce, but tell her that if she talks to you like a child again, you just going to leave while she has her tantrum.

Tell her that she needs to recognize you don't talk to people you care about like that and that you've got a life to lifve and refuse to waste another moment trying to please her.

Fuck walking on eggshells, own the message and deliver it with confidence. Your kids would rather split their holidays than see their father wither away in front of them.

Become the man who inspires action, who inspires others to strive for more. Exercise, run around, enjoy the world we have.

You have too few breathes left on this spinning rock to waste another second waiting on your wife to come around.

Take the Lead.

Acta, Non Verba

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Are you a man worthy of following and respecting?

At home I would have to say no, it's the only place I'm lacking respect. I truly do see the error of my ways, all that I've read has blown my mind how applicable it is to my life.

What is your Ht/Wt?

I'm 5' 11" and weigh 150lbs, I'm lean. I have good muscle definition, a little on the skinny side.

Have you ever considered that you deserve better? Have you internalized that you should be the prize and that your time and attention has value?

I have considered I deserve better at points through the marriage, these were fleeting. I don't think I've yet to internalise fully that I should be and I don't (yet) place any value on my time or attention.

What you need to do is draw some boundaries that you will enforce.

This is great advice, I'm going to do just that, thank you. I need to to verbalise to her, then enforce the consequence if she crosses the boundary.

You seem to be at the end of your rope and your wife seems like a fucking psychotic bitch. But, you started a family with her, you became weak, so I believe you owe it to her to try and mend this.

I am at the end of my rope, MRP gave me hope, It's still really early on in my discovery, I know I have a long way to go. She can be nice sometimes! I owe her and the kids to fix this, it's my fault we're where we are. I did become weak, I let her take over everything for an easy life then tried to claim going to work and earning all the money was enough. I've been a wimp for too long now, I will fix this. Appreciate your advice dude.

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Update - spent the night in a hotel last night. Full details added to the post. Would appreciate your thoughts?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

I don't have any kind of support network and it's nice to have people that understand the situation/problem to talk to about this.

It's why we're here brother.

The phrase Acta, Non Verba is one that I stole from something I read while in the Navy and I brought it to this forum because it perfectly applies to everything we do.

I wanted you to tell her you recognized the failures and that you had a plan of action.

I didn't want you to turn it into a tit for tat conversation.

Your wife is being like this because you've allowed her to become this fuck shrew. Your fault, check. Let's move forward.

Stop talking to her about the shit your going to own. At this point, you just need to own it. Come up with a workout schedule and stick to it. Start laughing with her again, if she doesn't want to get onboard the happy train, her loss have fun with the kid.

Never let her see she is getting to you. If she does start to get under your skin, get away - you don't have to deal with her shit. Again, play with the kids, see how happy you are with the kids and how she is more than welcome to join but she won't allow herself because in her mind she is stuck in the loop where she no longer knows how to experience joy.

You don't have to be Mr. Macho, but you do have to tell her that you are going to be working on your life and she is more than welcome to be a part of that journey. See if she wants to go on walks together, maybe get a paint set and watch some Bob Ross on Netflix or Hulu.

Start reading up on how to flirt, game, lay some kino, and raise your confidence.

Talk to everyone, stop just being 'a dad' or 'a husband'. You're a fucking Man who is about to reclaim his masculinity Smile, laugh, have fun, and never waste another breathe trying to make your appreciate you.

Just live your life like a man, she'll come to appreciate your transition or she won't, in which case you decide your life is better off without her.

I have 2 kids, I understand the fear of losing them. There are several guys here who have to factor that into their decision, but not a man here would sacrifice years of his life for a woman who provides nothing but pain.

I'd rather share my kids than hate my fucking life.

I'm not pushing you in any direction, but I am saying that you need to build a life apart from her's and build yourself into the kind of man who relies on noone but himself when it comes to finding join in this life. My wife is not my mission, I Love her with my all, but if we divorced, I'd still be a happy ass dude seizing the fuck out of each and every day.

Come up with a gameplan and get your wife out of your head. Don't cater to what would make her happy or sad, start thinking about what it is you want.

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I didn't want you to turn it into a tit for tat conversation.

I thought this during, it's the reason I left. I said what I had to say and her reaction was somewhat expected. She was a little more of a brat than I thought she'd be.

Stop talking to her about the shit your going to own.

That's the last I'll say on the subject to her. Actions, actions and more actions. I'm going to do my own thing, I'm going to work out what it is I want. I've been living in her shadow all this time.

Never let her see she is getting to you.

Great advice, I have seen results with this first hand recently. I may have dived in a little too hard over the last few days. I should have taken it slower and eased into withdrawing presence/attention over the first month.

Smile, laugh, have fun, and never waste another breathe trying to make your appreciate you.

I've definitely been missing this. Sacrificing my own happiness like I could only be happy in her company!

Just live your life like a man, she'll come to appreciate your transition or she won't, in which case you decide your life is better off without her.

I'm getting there, I'm at work, haven't been home yet because I've placed the ball firmly in her court. Today, it feels like this decision has already been made. It may already be over, I don't want to chase any more, I've said what I've got to say, she knows where I stand. I'm going to call later to talk to my youngest kid and I'm going to tell her I want to come and get him ready for bed and read him a story.

Don't cater to what would make her happy or sad, start thinking about what it is you want.

I'm finding this the hardest part in all honesty. I'm so used to behaving the opposite of this, I'm analysing everything, I need to get rid of my own hamster to improve this.

Once again, thank you. You have no idea how much you're helping.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I'm going to tell her I want to come and get him ready for bed and read him a story.

This is fucking brutal, the kid is an innocent and I hope you're able to do more than just tuck him in - he needs his dad.

Don't count your wife out 100% either, she has years of resentment built up towards you for forcing her to become the captain. Once it spills out, she may become the most feminine happy woman there is.

Regardless of that, you have to begin to fight your tendency to placate your wife. It's ok that she is angry, it's expected, but eventually that must subside and what takes it's place is (hopefully) you living your life and her a part of it, if that's what you want.

The opposite of Love is not hate, it's apathy.

She is angry - she still cares.

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is fucking brutal, the kid is an innocent and I hope you're able to do more than just tuck him in - he needs his dad.

Man, you are so right, I don't want anyone caught in the crossfire. Perhaps telling her I want to see him for an hour before bed so I can play with him then put him to bed too? It'll all be in the house so will be a little uncomfortable but it's a small price to pay.

Don't count your wife out 100% either

I'm so glad you said this. I was beginning to think it was a done deal and I should start looking for a place to rent. I sincerely hope it isn't over, I want to make this right. I want to reclaim my masculinity with her in my life.

She is angry - she still cares.

I hope this is the case. I hope the lack of response is out of anger and it's not too late.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You need to read the books WISNIFG and MMSL. We have them on the sidebar as REQUIRED for a reason. We didn't just pick them at random.

For you, I would start with The Book of Pook, then WISNIFG.

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm going to start WISNIFG tonight. MMSL is on the list next, I've read about a 3rd of The book of Pook, I'll get there. I've found an incredible amount of information in the sidebar which I have read already.

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet3 points4 points  (8 children) | Copy

STFU, especially over text. Then go home and act like you don't give a fuck, because you shouldn't. Your wife is the most responsible child in the house, why are you trying to engage her moods and temper tantrums like an adult?

Next time just ignore her and do your own thing. Why in the ever loving fuck are you "waiting" for her? Go and handle your shit. If you're out of shit to handle, go read or lift or build something or play guitar. Anything other than trying to engage your wife in a logical and rational manner.

About the OCD stuff, I don't know how serious it really is, but my gf gets anxiety and has some OCD behaviors. It's because your frame is weak as fuck and she can't lean on you as the rock she needs. You fall immediately into her frame by engaging her bitchy moods and that validates whatever she's feeling. Next time tease her and show her that life's not that bad and that you can handle your shit so well that you're confident enough to joke about it.

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

STFU, especially over text. Then go home and act like you don't give a fuck, because you shouldn't. Your wife is the most responsible child in the house, why are you trying to engage her moods and temper tantrums like an adult?

I honestly think it's a little early for this, I've got 14 years to make up for. This is where I want to be but I have a lot to do first before I can act this way. I've been a drunk captain for so long, this will just escalate the situation further.

Next time just ignore her and do your own thing. Why in the ever loving fuck are you "waiting" for her? Go and handle your shit. If you're out of shit to handle, go read or lift or build something or play guitar. Anything other than trying to engage your wife in a logical and rational manner.

This is sound advice, I will definitely do this next time. I shouldn't be "waiting" for her.

About the OCD stuff, I don't know how serious it really is, but my gf gets anxiety and has some OCD behaviors. It's because your frame is weak as fuck and she can't lean on you as the rock she needs. You fall immediately into her frame by engaging her bitchy moods and that validates whatever she's feeling.

This definitely hits home, as hard as that is to hear, you're right. When I get to where I want to be, I do think the anxiety and OCD will reduce. Thanks for the reply dude, really appreciate it.

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy

The OCD stuff drove me crazy for awhile, my gf would sit in front of a mirror for almost an hour picking and poking at her skin. Calming her with logic and reason never worked. What did work was giving her a big hug and telling her that none of it matters because we will probably die in a nuclear holocaust next year, while smiling (jokingly). Or some other crazy negative shit. Show her that whatever it is she's worried about isn't going to phase you and you'll make the best of it and handle it anyway.

My gf gets anxious and freaks out when our cat sneezes too many times. If I can convince her that I'll be able to handle a nuclear holocaust, a couple of cat sneezes start to seem like a silly thing for her to get worked up over. Just my personal experience with it.

Also, I really hope you've been lifting.

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Wow, that's a revelation for me. It drives me absolutely crazy sometimes. Logic and reason worked once, not anymore. I'm definitely going to adopt your approach here dude. I'm going to try it the next time.

Also, I really hope you've been lifting.

Not yet, just moved house and need to set up the Gym in the garage. It's on my list for this weekend.

[–]mrpCamper1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Not yet, just moved house and need to set up the Gym in the garage. It's on my list for this weekend.

Ok. But do 20 push ups tonight and 25 on Friday. My situation is not nearly as dire as yours but I do also have "bad mornings" with her. I ALWAYS come home fresh in the best mood ever. ALWAYS. I walk in that door after work and I'm the happiest mother fucker on the planet. If given a reason to act otherwise, sure I may change. But I start at 100% purre fucking joy. Sure sometimes its an act but it's my routine and I love it. I would suggest you give this a try and see where it gets you rather than trying to go somewhere else for the night etc. Be unphased.

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Ok. But do 20 push ups tonight and 25 on Friday.

I've just put this on my to-do list. Thanks dude.

I would suggest you give this a try

Once I've set the boundaries tonight, I'm going to give this a go tomorrow night and every night thereafter. I think I need to be happier all round, I'm so affected by this situation that I've gone from being a really happy guy to miserable and feeling impending doom. This may even have something to do with it, outcome dependence!

[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUs0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I understand you're getting your bearings, but lifting is job number one. It shouldn't be on a list, it should be your first priority the first free moment you get. For every minute you spend here, you should spend ten minutes at r/fitness reading and learning.

What's your height/weight? Are you in shape?

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I'm 5' 11" and weigh 150lbs, I'm lean. I have good muscle definition, a little on the skinny side. I used to lift religously 3 times a week, I know what works for me, I still have a muscularly lean frame leftover as it was in the last 18 months I stopped (busy schedule and life getting in the way). I just need to get the gym set up asap, only time I have to do that is this weekend.

[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUs0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ok. If you were 240 pounds this would be a completely different problem. Sounds like you know what you're doing.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

I had this long drawn out response, but I deleted it. You are suffering from her being put on the pedestal and a severe lack of boundaries. The underlying fact is you are not a high quality man, so you put up with a low quality woman and her bullshit. Make no mistake, your wife is behaving poorly, but until you fix your own behavior you won't have the tools to help her.

Follow the advice /u/TrainingTheBrain gave you. Before you do anything with your wife, fix yourself. Your wife is broken, and likely a low quality woman. She has you walking on eggshells because of her OCD and the fact that she's a harpy cunt. She treats you poorly, and you let her. If my wife locked me out of my own house, she'd have divorce papers the next day; that's no threat it's reality.

You are codependent just like if she was an alcoholic or a tweaker. Lift, read and better yourself. Find some good books on beating the cycle of codependency and fix yourself.

Good men, integrated males, don't let low quality people dictate their actions. You may find that when you become one, that you can actually really help your wife with her mental illness by eliminating the cycle of enabling, or you may find that you love her enough to let her go, because she won't help herself. But that journey starts with you, not her.

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

You are suffering from her being put on the pedestal and a severe lack of boundaries.

Definitely. This is it.

Make no mistake, your wife is behaving poorly, but until you fix your own behavior you won't have the tools to help her.

Thanks, I needed to hear that.

She has you walking on eggshells because of her OCD and the fact that she's a harpy cunt.

Absolutely. This is bang on, I've catered to it, I've made it worse.

If my wife locked me out of my own house, she'd have divorce papers the next day; that's no threat it's reality.

I will tell her this when I get home tonight. No bullshit, in frame, just never going to happen again.

You are codependent just like if she was an alcoholic or a tweaker. Lift, read and better yourself. Find some good books on beating the cycle of codependency and fix yourself.

Going to be honest, I've never even considered this. I'm going to definitely read up on that.

that journey starts with you, not her.

I'm at the point where I know that the situation we're in is all my fault and it's only me that has what it takes to fix it. I only wish I'd found MRP sooner. Thank you.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I will tell her this when I get home tonight. No bullshit, in frame, just never going to happen again.

I will caution you, because you are a noob, leave this as amorphous as possible. If you haven't read WISNIFG read it first. This is a discussion you can have a few days from now if need be. Tell her that it was unacceptable and you will not tolerate it. Right now leave the divorce thing off the table, just keep it at "If you do it again, I'll have some decisions to make". Let her hamster do the heavy lifting.

I say this because you still need the tools to do the job correctly. Every battle is won before you ever engage with the enemy, preparation is key.

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the heads up dude. Threatening divorce at this point may be counter-productive and I may not be ready for this yet. I'm going to have a think about it.

[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUs2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

Your marriage sounds similar to mine. If you check my post history, you'll see one about wife telling me to shut up in front of kids, which is similar to getting locked out in terms of extreme disrespect. I drew a firm line (read for details) and have been pleasantly surprised at how big the difference has been.

One advantage of things having gone this far is that when you finally push back, your moral position is unassailable. You can argue over sex or who balances the checkbook, but there is no conceivable defense to locking you out of the house, and she knows that. Don't argue it or reason about it. Just state calmly that if it happens again, your on a road to divorce.

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

I'll take a look man, thanks. Can you elaborate on this a little please -

One advantage of things having gone this far is that when you finally push back, your moral position is unassailable.

[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUs1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I mean that when you assert a boundary over something as extreme as no getting locked out of your own house, there's no ambiguity over whether you're just being pushy, or an asshole, etc. You are obviously right to assert that boundary and you know it and she knows it. That means it's a battle you cannot possibly lose unless you just give up.

In contrast, drawing a boundary over whether you should wait 15 seconds for her to calm down is more ambiguous. It's not crystal clear what the answer is, because you're wondering if it's a medical thing, if you should let it go, etc. etc. etc. Eventually you'll have to take those on as well, but it makes it easier if you start with a no brainer like not getting locked out.

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ah, lightbulb! I get it now, thank you. Ambiguity does stifle me quite a bit in those situations, like "is this something I should put up with because of the OCD"

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You are letting yourself get shit on by your wife. You are doing it over and over again. When you finally realize this and push back, the stench from the piles of shit covering you becomes impossible to ignore. Paradox is saying that when you finally push back from that- covered in Shit- there is no room for equivocation. You are in the right. Your wife is in the wrong. There is nothing to even discuss.

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you, that makes sense. I think I started to do that before discovering MRP, which I guess I tried to handle in my own way which is most likely why it's been worse lately (more arguments). I haven't handled that push back very well, tone and body language are definitely things I need to work on.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

If you can't do anything else, quit smoking. Just quit. Dying of cancer sucks.

Edit: In fact, it will make your current problems seem minor.

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Second!

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I walk back into the kitchen and she steps outside for a cigarette, I didn't follow her

What...the....fuck? Why would you follow her outside while she smokes? Do you smoke? Do you hold onto her skirt and run around her like a 5 year old?

locks the door behind her with the key. She then stands aggressively looking at me

This would be "abuse" if done by a man but...pussy pass.

She baits me into an argument

Bye!

"This is too much, it will never be ok no matter how hard I try"

Horrible! Whiny, bitchy, little boy language. Here is your answer: STOP TRYING SO HARD. Develop other options so when your wife is baiting the you leave.

TLDR: Dread Level 4

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Why would you follow her outside while she smokes? Do you smoke?

Yes, I do smoke. I don't follow her around like a 5 year old either, sometimes we smoke together, sometimes we don't, it's that simple.

This would be "abuse" if done by a man but...pussy pass.

I'm glad you said that, it had crossed my mind.

Horrible! Whiny, bitchy, little boy language. Here is your answer: STOP TRYING SO HARD. Develop other options so when your wife is baiting the you leave.

I do see that now, as hard as that is to hear, it's true. Whiny as fuck. I do need to stop trying so hard, I am trying to build up a list of things that I can do in those scenarios.

[–]exbp1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

My wife wakes up every morning in a bad mood...

she asked me (like a bitch) to go away...

I walked into the other room and waited until she was finished...

When she comes back from her cigarette, I get up to go and have mine...

She baits me into an argument...

You're orbiting her, everything in your story is you reacting to her.

You say "I remain in frame" but I don't think you've quite got the concept. It's not "I keep my composure", that's only an outward sign of it. Living in your frame is about changing your mindset to orbit around you, your day, your goals, your desires. It comes about when you realize that you are the prize and the woman standing next to you is lucky to have you. And that comes about when you actually start becoming a prize that people envy and desire.

She baits me into an argument and I maintain frame for a good 20 minutes before...

You stayed 19.5 minutes too long. There are 3 levels that you add or subtract depending on her behavior.

  • Level 1 is your presence.
  • Level 2 is your attention.
  • Level 3 is your affection.

Example: You come home from work and greet her with a kiss on the cheek. She starts a rant about the kids or whatever. Leave the room. She follows you or shouts after you, go for a bike ride. She persists, go to the gym, up to the pub or to a buddy's house. Lather, rinse, repeat: when she's a bitch, she progressively loses your affection, attention, and then presence. Do it over and over.

For the next 7 days, improve yourself with just 3 things: exercise, work, read the sidebar (esp, MMSLP). When you see the wife interact as needed but STFU otherwise and get busy on one of your 3 things.

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

You're orbiting her, everything in your story is you reacting to her.

I see this now, it is all about her, that's pretty much what my life has been. After reading NMMNG I realised that I was DEERing and making myself look like a proper cnt because I couldn't stand her thinking I was a proper cnt. I have spent most of my adult life trying to appease her and seek her approval, since discovering MRP I'm blown away.

I don't think you've quite got the concept

judging by your description, I'm inclined to agree. I'm going to do more research into this. I have just been keeping my composure but trying to just watch it unfold. I have laughed internally a few times recently (watching the hamster from afar).

I am going to be the prize, it's going to take a while to get there, but I'm committed and ready for it, I can't live like this any more.

There are 3 levels that you add or subtract depending on her behavior.

This really helps and is so simple. Reading that makes me realise that I've been rewarding her for bad behaviour for years, undoing that though is going to take time and patience.

improve yourself with just 3 things

Thanks, I've been trying to ease into this as it's been so long, any sudden changes in me will spark panic and cause escalation. She's very astute and picks up on any changes no matter how minor. She'll suspect something's up before I even know what's up.

[–]exbp0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

any sudden changes in me will spark panic and cause escalation

Get over it. Sudden or not there will be panic, fear, yelling, clawing and all of that. She'll mistrust any change at first. Later she'll resent you taking responsibilities away from her. Still later she'll fear she's losing power over you. Finally she'll be scared she could lose you to some other female. It's okay, these are all necessary to undo what you've let slide, and in the end both of you will be happier. Remember she's as brainwashed as you were.

Agreed you have to go at a reasonable place but don't let fear of making waves stop you.

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Thanks dude, I can see now that I've been crippled by fear in the past. Fear of making waves, fear of her emotional tantrums and fear of losing my family. Check out my update, it did not go well. It's ok though, I'm going to be fine, whatever happens.

[–]exbp0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

She told me I wasn't being what she needed as a husband (something I just took responsibility for)

Expect bitch-mode, even if you're agreeing with her she's going to want to spit it out too. Best to ignore.

You have just thrown away the one person that was willing to accept his failings and change.

Whiny and melodramatic. Don't do this. She might plead to hear your feelings but she actually expects and wants you to be a stone cold machine. Save little tiny displays of your feelings for when she's pleased you. It'll become another way she'll know you're changing.

I thought you were better than that

The bitterest part of the pill is letting go of this. You think she's a unicorn and she's not.

I've not yet had a reply and I'm not going to say any more about it.

This is the smartest thing in your whole update. You brought on "The Main Event" and spoke your peace (too much really but NBD), now you STFU and act. No more discussions about your direction, improvements, desires or feelings. Your actions speak for you now. Period.

You'll screw up. She'll fight back. She won't trust your changes. You'll prove her wrong, over and over. She'll still test you. You'll learn to smile through it.

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you. I've learned more about myself from this one event than the hundreds that came before it. Accepting it's all my fault (as the drunk captain) has really helped me shift my perspective, especially when it comes to thinking she's a unicorn.

TRP/MRP has changed my life, it is still early on but I now know myself more than I ever have. Those questions that keep lurking in your mind; "why the fuck did I do that?" or "what is wrong with me?" have all been answered. Now I'm just going to be awesome. No more talking about improvement, solutions or feelings.

I discovered MRP and took it all in, I now realise that I got the implementation in the wrong order and caused unnecessary problems early on. I have now reset, taken a look at myself and my behaviour, I know where I went wrong, more importantly, I now know where I'm going. Big thanks to all advice, I couldn't have done it without you.

[–]opening_eyes1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Stop smoking.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

So, what you are describing was the relationship I had with my wife 5 or so years ago. Locking me out of the house, tons of yelling, bitchy in the mornings (until she had her cigarette), even got to the point where she would hit me, or try to stand in a doorway to block my way, preventing me from leaving. (Everyone, I've handled this and do not need your advice on shit that happened 5 years ago. Don't even.)

Now my wife has not been diagnosed with OCD, though some of her behaviors are suggestive. She doesn't get stuck in endless loops though, and likely she doesn't have it.

She isn't like that at all anymore. I wish I could tell you exactly what happened to switch it around, but it was a combination of things.

Our kids grew up. At the time she had two kids around all the time, no freinds, and minimal work life. Now the kids are in school all day, she has at least one freind she visits and texts (re:vents to/validation seeks from) on a regular basis. She is very busy with two jobs, and I think this has the biggest part to play. She is far to busy to be bitchy. Bitchy in the morning? She's got no time for drawn out drama shit anymore because she has to get to work. I think she also feels more important and more helpful now that she is contributing to the family in a finial way.

I also found TRP, and realized that I was a useless turd. While that likely wasn't the whole reason for the epic bouts of bitch, it definitely played it's part.

My advice on dealing with these issues in the moment: ignore. What you are seeing is a 2 year old throwing a tantrum. If you react in any way, you will be feeding the beast. Only reply with one word answers to direct questions. Otherwise try and leave the room or house if necessary. If you can't, ignore. If you can't ignore, look at her like you are looking at a houseplant. The key to this, is once she stops acting BSC, flip your switch and act like nothing happened.

Texting: Answer direct questions. Do not answer stupid fluffy shit: Cat is being annoying = Ignore / What time will you be home = 6.

Immediate situation: Go home, nothing happened. If she starts going BSC, flip your robot switch and ignore. Leave at that point if it is viable.

I stayed through this garbage with my wife because I found TRP halfway through it, and once I got to the point where I would have left, she didn't act that way anymore. Consider leaving permanently as an option though, because sometimes you just can't fix crazy.

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks Man, it's good to hear my situation isn't entirely unique, even if it is someone going through the same hell! She does have phases where it's better, and not so intrusive, sometimes I think it's just hormonal.

My advice on dealing with these issues in the moment: ignore. What you are seeing is a 2 year old throwing a tantrum. If you react in any way, you will be feeding the beast. Only reply with one word answers to direct questions. Otherwise try and leave the room or house if necessary. If you can't, ignore. If you can't ignore, look at her like you are looking at a houseplant. The key to this, is once she stops acting BSC, flip your switch and act like nothing happened.

This is sound advice and exactly what I'm working on, STFU is hard to master but I've seen the results first hand, I'm so angry at myself for being drawn into the argument, after reading Illimitablemen's article on how women argue I thought I had it licked.

Immediate situation: Go home, nothing happened. If she starts going BSC, flip your robot switch and ignore. Leave at that point if it is viable.

I'm going to take /u/TrainingTheBrain's advice and set the boundaries, I'm not happy about being locked out of my own house, I need to set those boundaries then enforce the consequences.

I stayed through this garbage with my wife because I found TRP halfway through it, and once I got to the point where I would have left, she didn't act that way anymore.

Glad to hear it all worked out for you dude!

Consider leaving permanently as an option though, because sometimes you just can't fix crazy.

I've considered this, but I suspect her psychotic nature will mean I never see my kids again or she moves them 200 miles away to where we used to live. Besides, I owe it to them to fix it, it's my fault we're here.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Start working on the art of S.T.F.U.

I maintain frame for a good 20 minutes

You stood there while she unloaded on you for 20 minutes? The longer you sit around taking it the more you're setting yourself up to fail, especially in the early phases.

You need to have some O.I. plans you can always go do.

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

STFU is hard to master when all you've been doing is DEERing your whole life.

You stood there while she unloaded on you for 20 minutes? The longer you sit around taking it the more you're setting yourself up to fail, especially in the early phases.

That's exactly what I did, looking back, I wasn't even aware of her blocking the door so I couldn't get out. I'm going to sit down tonight and work out the O.I plans. Thanks dude.

[–]cj_aubreyRed Beret0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Read WISNIFG as soon as possible. One of the key elements of that book is the mental mechanics of how to not let other people make your decisions (like whether your behavior was OK) for you. In your case I'd say this is pretty fucking important since your wife actually has a diagnosable mental disorder. OP, you're probably going to have to become a bit of a lion tamer here. Super consistent boundaries. Willingness to escalate hard in a conflict. Never a sloppy day where you let things slip. And an understanding that your going to lose some blood while you establish control. Like other people have said you probably want to read well, lift, increase the rate at which you pass shit tests (where was the A&A or AM?) and otherwise prepare yourself for a bit before you get in the cage with her, refuse to bend and have a main event.

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Read WISNIFG as soon as possible.

Just bought it from Amazon, will stick it on the kindle tonight and begin. It was next on my reading list, it's just moved up in priority on the to-do list.

OP, you're probably going to have to become a bit of a lion tamer here.

I know it's going to be tough, my life is pretty shitty right now, so it can't get much worse, besides, I got me here, only I can get me out!

where was the A&A or AM?

Good point dude, it just wasn't there at all. I don't think I even thought of it.

prepare yourself for a bit before you get in the cage with her

I think I've been lacking in preparation for a lot of this, I've been winging it quite a bit, I have a tendency to fight fires rather than prevent them. I need to work on this definitely. Thanks Dude.

[–]cj_aubreyRed Beret0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

You're fighting a war not a boxing match, don't worry if you lose some battles. Just keep improving and sooner or later you'll start winning. Right now she's the stronger side so you fight a guerrilla war. Mao had good tactics on this. Be like the water: when she attacks, diffuse it with a shrug or A&A and let the criticism pass right through you with just a ripple. When you attack, hit hard, get some good strikes in and then withdraw and STFU when she counters. Once you're strong enough it will be time for frontal assaults with all guns blazing where shit is decided. But not yet.

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I have just bought the art of war, that's on my list of readings. I will get round to that one as I've always wanted to read that, even before discovering MRP.

[–]cj_aubreyRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You can find the 48 Laws of Power on audio book. Listen to it while you lift.

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That's a great idea, haven't thought of audio books at all. Thanks!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

holy fuck, double enter key makes paragraphs.

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks dude, first post. I'll get the formatting.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Did you notice how no one is actually telling you

"Poor donerkebabplease ! You are being abused!! You should go to the cops! No one locks out their spouse! Your spouse is emotionally abusing you!"

The reason they are not saying it is not that those things are not true. You are in fact an abused spouse.

The difference between here and other places is t hat when you "graduate" this " program", you won't be "empowered". You will just own the life around you and make it your own, perhaps for the first time in your life.

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You are in fact an abused spouse.

Fuck!! I've lost count of the amount of times I've been called the abusive spouse. Not trying to say I'm not one, I don't think I am. I've been guilty of a lot of extreme DEERing which has caused some issues over the years. I have lost my shit a few times and walked out of the house because I couldn't handle it any more. It's tough when your trying to explain the mistake you made wasn't intentional but you're being called a liar and screamed at.

You will just own the life around you and make it your own, perhaps for the first time in your life.

I'm looking forward to it dude. Thank you.

[–]you_done_messed_up-1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy

I did something miniscule to put her under pressure, she asked me (like a bitch) to go away so she could finish what she was doing

[...]

I walked into the other room and waited until she was finished, this was about 15 seconds (no harm done), I remain in frame.

o.O

That's not what frame is. This was the opposite.

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

I don't see how it's the opposite of frame? I wasn't affected by the way she spoke to me, I left the room (as to not escalate the situation) and sung a song in my head whilst looking out the window. I thought nothing of it.

[–]you_done_messed_up1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Your wife commands you around in your own house in a disrespectful tone and you oblige her singing a song in your head?

She has complete authority over you. She has zero respect for you as a man.

You either need to be in that room because you have a reason or not.

I thought nothing of it.

Are you sure? Is it possible that you were upset that she's bullying you around?

You need to set boundaries. You need to tell her that she can't be disrespectful with you in your own fucking house.

Locking you out of your own home? What is this? Some middle school drama shit? You're adults. That's not how adults behave.

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Your wife commands you around in your own house in a disrespectful tone and you oblige her singing a song in your head?

The way I see it is this, it's early days, I'm not yet worthy of respect, I know I shouldn't tolerate disrespect but right now, I'm choosing my battles. That's not a hill I want to die on.

She has complete authority over you. She has zero respect for you as a man.

Agreed, that's why I found MRP. I've been a beta in my own home for a long time.

Are you sure? Is it possible that you were upset that she's bullying you around?

I've come to the point where it's water off a duck's back. Maybe that's the problem, I'm not setting the boundaries, therefore she thinks I don't mind.

Locking you out of your own home? What is this? Some middle school drama shit? You're adults. That's not how adults behave.

I'm glad you agree with me, that's the only part I'm actually pissed off about, the rest of it I ignored. Being locked out of my own home is not something I'm ever going to let happen again, thanks u/TrainingTheBrain

[–]you_done_messed_up0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

The bad news is that you dug yourself really deep into this hole.

The good news is that you found the right place for help. It's going to be one hell of a ride!

[–]donerkebabplease[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The bad news is that you dug yourself really deep into this hole.

I know dude, it's a real mess. I am so glad I found this place!! This is my first post and I can't thank everyone enough.



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