Broke frame, then caught wife in a lie. Play dumb, should I ever let her off the hook?

Griever114 · 2016-01-19T19:47:13+00:00

You cannot expect a logical and heartfelt ANYTHING from her/her hamster. Your wife sounds like the type to cover and keep up with shady ass shit. If she isnt willing to show her phone - you have your answer. With the info given, she sounds like shit-teir woman but this is all we have to work with from your post. Even if you caught her in bed with another man, I am willing to bet Vegas money that should would come up with an excuse. Based on your previous post, your frame is still shit and you are still her beta bitch. You have anxiety approaching sex which means you still care about her approval, see #2.
Work on yourself (MORE) and start removing affection/time from her. Your frame is shit since you broke frame from what I am gathering 3xtimes and you are in her frame STILL. You still have a lot of work to fix that drunk captain as your previous post mentions. READ, LIFT AND STFU. You still are in the anger phase.
Dont go dropping nukes unless you are planning to really use them. You sound butthurt and angry. Understandable however this is NOT OI something other posters told you to work on before. However, I am hearing that you care more about what she thinks about divorce. As a rule here, WE DONT CARE WHAT THEY THINK. RP is entirely about building a strong and capable male to shed the fat (literally and metaphorically). If she is not ADDING to your life, then she is taking away. Unless you plan on showing her signed papers, stop pulling the boy who cried wolf or you will lose that card. She doesnt respect you because you cannot enforce boundaries because SHE DOESNT RESPECT YOU. See #3.

exbp · 2016-01-19T19:40:32+00:00

She couldn't care less about having me in her life.

This is The Problem, it inevitably leads to:

...her texting her ex-boyfriend

For:

She's a really, really good liar on the fly.

See AWALT.

...divorce is terrible from the aspect of joint custody of the child.

Are you the kind of dad that will be happy with some stranger dude raising your kid? If so, lawyer-up and start the big "D". If not, read the sidebar, hang around here and see how to get your wife back - even if it's only for a few years while the child grows up.

Countpudyoola · 2016-01-19T20:56:53+00:00

I've said it before and I'll say it again for other guys.

If he's truly just an orbiter and you stealth verify (at least within 99%) that nothing is going on other than she gets validation and orbit/beta feels from him through texts then you ignore with impunity. Confronting gives her the drama she craves and it puts you in a position of giving too many shits.

It sucks she's lying about it. But women will lie and justify it if she thinks

You're quality and she'd lose you (hint, if this was the case she wouldn't probably be risking it in the first place)
She's just trying to maintain the status quo but make you feel better ...also thinking there's no way you could verify.

Worst cases to me

she doesn't lie and keeps the shit up and throws it in your face aka "what're you going to do about it chump?".
she's doing the deed with this guy and he's an alpha zombie come back from the dead.

This is all in the Twilight Zone for now unless you verify for sure one way or another. So the best you can do is manage your reactions.

Give less shits. Ignore.

You are attacking her character when you accuse her of something.

Even if she did it, you're forcing her to

lie and go against what she represents to you
fess up and tuck tail. (not happening while she's still holding the cards)

The nuclear option is when you have papers in hand and want her to sign. Don't pick or start fights with her. That's like creating your own shit tests to fail. You aught to get enough of those without having to create more.

You lost frame. That's what started this current scuffle. You don't get into an honesty contest where you show her your virgin phone. For all that's worth you could have a string of texts to hookers you just deleted in her mind. So her tit for tat lying is just keeping par.

Emotional narrative is more important to them than recounting reality.

It really ~~erks~~ irks me that she's so pious about this and tries to reverse it on me.

You're still plugged in at least partially. You just lamented that a duck went "quack". Keep at it.

Work on some more o.i. and shut it when you feel like going on an attack.

[deleted] · 2016-01-19T19:45:56+00:00

And we were doing so well. Lost frame with wife from a shit test while trying to console a crying infant. I retaliate with a petty remark. It devolves when she attacks me on a personal level, I hit the nuclear option. We talk and calm down.

you were angry and lost your shit. You are angry that you have not been able to lead your family out of this shitty situation...

All guns are loaded... until they are not. So now you have unloaded the nuclear options.

Topic goes to how she takes pride in not lying. So I lose it and call her out on her texting her ex-boyfriend (some orbiter). I play dumb pretend I only know partial info and probe her for more info. (took screenshots of her texts with him). She denies there's anything going on or did go on. So I unlock my phone and slide over to her. I tell she can go through the entire phone, it has all my texts, emails, phone calls. I asked her to do the same. She refuses, stands by her lie. I even frame it as, it sounds shady that you won't show me your texts with him. What if I had an ex gf text me and I refused to show you. She then flipped it back on me with some hamstered b/s. She's a really, really good liar on the fly. I thought I could trip her up and she'd admit it. I know she went through the texts, maybe to get her story straight.

She is a woman she will hamster the shit out of anything until you have consistently shown that you 1) expect better 2) willing to enforce consequences 3) are valuable enough to her that consequences are meaningful.

She had a sleepless night. Anyway, should I continue to play dumb, bust her out on it or should I never let her off the hook with my 'suspicions'?It really erks me that she's so pious about this and tries to reverse it on me.

This is her hamster obviously. She is not going to be "fair" and "logical" in the way you would want because she is a "she" I think you need to accept it. Your wanting to punish her for being a liar is reactionary, and you are doing it because you want her to hurt and you want things to be fair. They aren't fair. Tough shit.

Life isn't fair. Quit being a pussy and if her lying to you about some ex bothers you enough to matter, then set a boundary, set an expectation, set a consequence and enforce it.

quit being a pussy about it.

Where do we go from here... I think there are only two resolutions, she admits it and figure out if I want to forgive her or I leave her b/c I think she's a low quality person and I can do so much better.For her, divorce is terrible from the aspect of joint custody of the child. She couldn't care less about having me in her life. I think this marriage is too far gone.

Oh , and here I though things were going so well. Are you a hamster or a man?

right now you are a low quality man because you can not deal with the fact that she lied to you and wont fess up. Its just not fair.... whaaaaaa.

Do you want to keep your wife?? Figure out if you want this woman. At this point it seems you aren't worth being the exclusive provider of her male attention.

summary : you lost frame, tried to guilt the teenager. She pressure flipped, you couldn't handle it. You do not have consequences and borders in your marriage.

druganswer · 2016-01-19T22:18:09+00:00

Don't call her out on her lies if you can't dump her when she continues to lie to your face. Basically, you know the truth, you called her out... she tells you she takes pride in not lying... you tell her you know she is lying, and she STILL can't admit the truth (AWALT by the way). Once you show her the texts she will admit to ONLY what you have in black and white right in front of her and say that is absolutely all of it. This will be another lie.

What was your gameplan when you called her out on her lying ways? You just figured she would straight up spill the beans on her whole relationship with her ex? Well you were wrong, we could have told you that.

You think she went through her phone to get her story straight? You're wrong again. She went through her phone to find and delete evidence of her lying. Next time she cries in front of you for whatever "evil" shit you're doing, remember that same poor little "innocent" girl is the one who was so cold and calculated in her lying that she went through her shit to delete every shred of evidence so she could continue lying to your face. I wonder if her phone has a password on it now... I guess that depends on how confident she is in her deleting shit.

What I would do now? I would download the app Dr. Fone (if she has an iphone) and test it out on my own device to see what kind of recovery it can do. It brings back texts/pics/etc. that have been deleted. In person with no forewarning I would tell her that her options are to hand me her phone and let me go through it alone and for an hour or to leave my life (I hope you're capable of doing this while being calm because she will probably freak out). If she chooses leave my life I would make arrangements for divorce with no looking back. If she hands me the phone I would connect it to the Dr. Fone app and when she asks what I am doing I would explicitly state that I was recovering her deleted texts etc. If she tried to grab the phone I would tell her that she was 100% choosing for this relationship to end with her actions.

Now you have two positive directions this is heading. You either have the truth (watch out what you wish for) or you're off the hook in this relationship... if you'd prefer to keep the wife around for logistics maybe this can be your "moral barometer" to let yourself be open for cheating or whatever suits your situation.

The truth or knowing she's willing to toss the relationship over the truth will tell you a lot. You're probably going to see some shit you would rather have not seen, but you were the one who got yourself into this mess with snooping/calling her out on it. If you really don't care then I would suggest dropping the whole thing... but she honestly kind of made you her bitch here.

I even frame it as, it sounds shady that you won't show me your texts with him. What if I had an ex gf text me and I refused to show you. She then flipped it back on me with some hamstered b/s.

LOL you're balls deep into her frame letting her hamster herself into a victim... You think she's too stupid to know that her not showing you her shit is shady as hell?

I've been in your exact situation and I folded for the sake of the relationship. This was before RP, but if there was one situation I would ever change in the past, this is it. Today I would absolutely lay down the law that the choices were giving up all evidence immediately (not her googling how to wipe her phone) and at my convenience (letting me snoop/recover on the phone) or calmly getting out of my life. I would be 100% firm on the immediate aspect and the second she left my sight with her phone she would have made the choice. If you're not to the point where you can do that you need to continue reading/lifting...

Sorry for the wall of text... I feel sort of strongly about this I guess. If you work on yourself for a year you probably will get to the point where you just don't care if she cheated/lied in the past.. but IMO until you hit that point you will have so much less respect for yourself having not made a stand here.

cholomite · 2016-01-19T22:26:52+00:00

If you're expecting your wife to feel guilty about lying and confess completely to you, you're going to die waiting. Women WILL NOT admit anything that will get them in trouble or cause them hardship. She will always hamster away any negative guilty feelings as something innocent or as your fault. Women do not feel guilty about things like men do, they do not experience loyalty or honor the way men do.

If I were you I would have called her out on the spot, told her sternly everything you know, told her she broke your trust and until she earns it back you'll be doing your own thing then disconnect. If she chases you she still wants you, if she only worries about losing your resources then you'll know where you stand with her.

SexistFlyingPig · 2016-01-19T22:39:30+00:00

"And we were doing so well. Lost frame with wife from a shit test while trying to console a crying infant. I retaliate with a petty remark. It devolves when she attacks me on a personal level, I hit the nuclear option."

Do you know what these words mean?

There's more to the red pill than being able to repeat some jargon.

You didn't lose frame because you never had frame to begin with.

You got angry over something your wife said. This isn't a shit test.

I don't know what you actually said or did, but the nuclear option is divorce. It doesn't sound like you called a lawyer and filed papers.

bugzapper1 · 2016-01-19T21:43:39+00:00

Make a decision: either have a final conversation with her about it where you lay it all out, or forget about it forever. Choose.

If you decide to have a final conversation about it with her, I would lead with this: "It really erks[sic] me that she's so pious about this and tries to reverse it on me."

This may sound harsh, but you're hamstering about all of this just like a woman would. Either you air it all out or you don't, and then you move on. This is what men do. You're 100% in her frame.

Where do you go from here? You decide, but make sure it's what you really want.

She doesn't need to admit what you already know to be true. Let that be your starting point.

MRPguy · 2016-01-20T18:50:36+00:00

This reads like two little girls fighting on the playground.

trp_dude · 2016-01-21T00:18:24+00:00

First, your wife may be cheating. Ex-BFs are not orbiters. Orbiters are guys who don't stand a chance. Ex-BF are very often affair partners.

Second, why are you arguing with her? Don't engage. Arguing = entering her frame. It's a lose-lose.

Title	Broke frame, then caught wife in a lie. Play dumb, should I ever let her off the hook?
Author	FUBP
Upvotes	8
Comments	12
Date	19 January 2016 07:04 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	askMRP
Link	https://theredarchive.com/post/207725
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/41q668/broke_frame_then_caught_wife_in_a_lie_play_dumb/