CMV: Veteran members on TRP who claim to be Machiavellian or Dark Triad are in reality wrong or deluded.

impossibleworlds · 2015-11-07T02:15:26+00:00

I'm quite familiar with the traits we currently describe as psychopathy, and I've only met maybe a couple people in real life that I think live up to the Dark Triad label. They're pretty rare individuals not so much due to their lack of empathy, duplicity, vanity, etc. (which many people have) but mostly their rampant impulsivity, sadism, manipulation and powers of persuasion compounded on top of all that. They can be very grey eminent and fly under the radar.

Not to say that developing such traits doesn't involve years of experience and practice in some cases, but I'm inclined to say there's definitely something "different" intrinsic to these people probably ingrained from early childhood. A certain detachment or coldness, perhaps. Depends on the individual.

Also, in my experience, they usually have a peculiar rationale or justification for their behavior but it's extremely superficial and ultimately meaningless. When put on the spot about anything they are extremely deft at moving the conversation back toward their original agenda. They also pretty seamlessly transition between different identities and tend to develop shallow rapport with people quickly if it is of utility to them.

IMO, all the complaints about lack of fairness and moral outrage on TRP is not something that would interest a DT personality at all. They are ruthless and pragmatic people. They're interested in power at all costs, and typically by extension very invested in maintaining hierarchies as they stand, because naturally, they have a lot of potential for exploitation and they plan to do the exploiting.

joseremarque · 2015-11-07T02:49:58+00:00

Trpers don't claim to BE dark triad. They choose to emulate dark triad behaviors deliberately because women find them attractive.

idhavetocharge · 2015-11-07T07:10:06+00:00

I think you missed something though.

The dark triad is a group of three personality traits: narcissism, Machiavellianism and psychopathy. Use of the term "dark" implies that these traits have malevolent qualities. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad#/search

The narcissism. What's an n without an audience? They need validation, they need to be right and to argue with people they think are wrong. It's an ns wet dream to have a following of rabid brainwashed idiots. They will flatter anyone that keeps the same beliefs, but rip to shreds anyone that doesn't, or just those who get a bit out of line. Ns like puppets. It isn't empathy, its growing food for massive egos to feed on.

betterdeadthanbeta · 2015-11-07T09:35:04+00:00

Hmm, I dunno bout all that.

Machiavelli wrote a primer on how to be a statesman, not how to be a selfish prick. Being a selfish prick was a means to an end (empowering and defending the state).

You can have a goal you believe to be noble, and still be Machiavellian. Machiavellian is a descriptor of one's methods and means, not necessarily one's goals.

Edit: Also, sociopaths are known to help and associate with other sociopaths in order to maximize the damage to others.

AprilMaria · 2015-11-07T01:51:24+00:00

I agree it sounds about right

Most of their stories sound suspect, if you watch them for awhile they tell the same story several times with some parts changed which makes me think nope, no way it's true.

Also online tests for these things are bunkum I tried one once for the laugh and scored as dark triad in one and the complete opposite in another, the questions were different in both.

My personality is clinically assessed as INTP which means basically I think in terms of ideas rather than feelings, but it does not mean I don't possess empathy

Unless you have been assessed by a psychologist as dark triad then you are not dark triad. The percentage of the population who are is statistically insignificant

It's like people diagnosing themselves with depression for attention if I had to guess I would say at least some of them are mildly autistic but I'm not a psychologist

homeliss · 2015-11-07T10:06:52+00:00

Can you give an example of a veteran redpiller claiming to be Dark Triad?

I have never seen any veteran, or even novice, post this.

I have seen posts on emulating Dark Triad traits, specifically for gaming women, getting what you want in life, and as a defence against the natural manipulations of women or someone in a position of power over you.

I just don't understand why people call themselves "Machiavellian" and then completely contradict themselves.

Firstly, machiavellianism is only one dark triad trait. Being dark triad requires all three.

Secondly, did the person actually say they were machiavellian since birth?

I doubt it. Again, I'd like to see an example of where you've seen this, but I'm guessing that you misunderstood the post and in actual fact the poster was posting their one successful attempt at machiavellianism in order to help other members.

It's a valuable trait to learn. The fact that it might be one of thousands of unsuccessful attempts doesn't make it less valuable to learn from.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2015-11-07T13:59:17+00:00

Could you link to veteran members of trp claiming to be Dark Triad?

Whisper · 2015-11-12T07:51:18+00:00

I'm both.

I'm simultaneously a narcissistic sociopath who gets off on praise and adulation, and an altruistic father figure who loves helping younger man and making their lives better.

You sort it out.

Characterizations are just that. They don't matter in the end. The only thing that matters is what I do.

[deleted] · 2015-11-07T10:45:26+00:00

No one can just make themselves dark triad, you have to have something fucked in your brain to be a genuine psychopath. So I don't think anyone is reading TRP then deciding to just stop being empathetic. That isn't possible.

But can you learn to manipulate people, i.e. be Machiavellian? Absolutely. Manipulation is just learned behaviour. Anyone can learn it just as long as they already have basic social skills.

Whether or not they can actually put those skills into practice without their conscience or some other moralfaggotry getting in their way, that's another matter.

CthroughYou · 2015-11-07T14:40:31+00:00

Narcissists enjoy intellectual supply, and influence over others. And often have a hatred for women. They project their own traits on to them - deceitful, perceptive, unloving, whores.

Psychopaths enjoy playing with narcissists (I think a lot of psychopaths had narcissists instead of parents) and like to mess them up.

Machiavellian's enjoy social consequence-free discussions about manipulation.

These are the motivations for why those types could be here.

Those that brag about being any of these likely fall into your analysis as attention whores, though.

Gnometard · 2015-11-07T16:59:37+00:00

You can't know someone by their reddit account. You're being judgmental.

[deleted] · 2015-11-07T17:07:18+00:00

Personally, I am the farthest thing from dark triad. That doesn't mean I'm not interested in understanding the mindset and behaviors of those who are. I imagine many of these types are similar to myself on TRP.

mashakos · 2015-11-07T21:52:53+00:00

yeah, any influence you gain in a fringe online group called "The Red Pill" would hurt your public image irl if outed (assuming a Dark Triad red piller would be important enough irl to have a public image in this scenario). The guys posting on that subreddit are in a way going out on a limb in order to help those who were like them in the past.

Transmigratory · 2015-11-07T04:54:29+00:00

Or they're are Dark Triad and Machiavellian, but are also willing to help others who're willing to listen to those seeking their advice.

17b29a · 2015-11-07T01:16:49+00:00

I just don't understand why people call themselves "Machiavellian" and then completely contradict themselves.

Clearly you do understand that, see point 2 in your post:

You are possibly machiavellian

Title	CMV: Veteran members on TRP who claim to be Machiavellian or Dark Triad are in reality wrong or deluded.
Author	Hackey23
Upvotes	6
Comments	46
Date	November 7, 2015 1:00 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3ru3g3/cmv_veteran_members_on_trp_who_claim_to_be/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-veteran-members-on-trp-who-claim-to-be.278607 https://theredarchive.com/post/278607

Comments