I'm a red piller, but I don't agree with the concept of the wall. Any opinions from other red pillers?

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2015-10-03T02:22:55+00:00

Apex fallacy. you only perceive the hottest older women

grendalor · 2015-10-03T00:38:04+00:00

Two things -- one is that location matters, and another is that things have changed over the last 15-20 years such that the wall is moving up in age.

Location -- Manhattan is a place where lots of women take very, very good care of themselves. LA is the same, South Beach is the same, etc. If you are sitting in the middle of the country, it isn't that way at all. Remember, the SMP is a truly local market, and so different local markets have different characteristics.

Time/Era -- People, especially in the coastal cities (when we're talking about the US) are generally much more health-conscious, eat better, exercise more and better, and are as a result better looking for longer than was generally the case 20-30 years ago, exceptions aside (there were always exceptions, but most women in their 60s, in that generation of people, don't look like Christie Brinkley does, for example). This applies to men and women alike.

So the wall now varies depending on where you live, and in general if you are in a coastal city, or one of the very large inland cities, you're looking at a good number of people staying hot well into the 30s, and a smaller number staying hot well into the 40s. It drops off a lot around 50 or so, and the genetics really takes precedence at that point (plus work, of course, but it's hard for the less genetically gifted to keep up at that point).

machimus · 2015-10-03T02:15:05+00:00

30 is just a ballpark. It might even be the real average, but anyone who's taken basic statistics knows the problem with throwing out just an average. You miss a lot of information like variance, skew, and sample size for reference. So don't be too picky about the number 30, and take everything with a grain of salt.

exit_sandman · 2015-10-03T18:02:45+00:00

You forgot something: most women are average. An average woman has options when she's younger (and often thinks she has even more options because she doesn't discern sexually interest from actual romantic interest).

Now fast forward 10-15 years. A woman who was naturally good-looking (and not just because she was in her prime and had put on loads of makeup) will still retain her attractiveness, possibly far longer than just into her 30s. However, this doesn't apply to most women. And realizing this is particularly painful if it coincides with a point in her life when her baby rabies kick in and she's far more interested in having a family than she was when guys were tripping over themselves to get into her favor.

Also, the "wall experience" differs not only depending on one's original looks and aging, but also on one's personal situation. A woman who has been in a commited relationship for 10 year and possibly already had her children when her looks slowly start to fade probably won't really be bothered that much. A woman on the other hand who had planned to settle down around 30 will not only fight an uphill battle because her looks decline, but also because she usually expectes a clear long-term perspective from her dates; which is off-putting for guys who don't like being locked down right at the first date.

cats_or_get_out · 2015-10-02T23:02:17+00:00

Not a guy, but I always thought Mrs. Robinson was way hotter than Elaine. Every time my husband and I watch The Graduate, we're like, "Damn it, Ben. You picked the wrong one!"

[deleted] · 2015-10-02T23:40:12+00:00

Probably because you don't understand the actual concept, judging from your post.

ECoast_Man · 2015-10-03T00:56:20+00:00

NYC is where ovaries go to die.

They're promiscuous and fucking a bunch of dudes, but they're not getting married.

ManRAh · 2015-10-02T23:22:08+00:00

Here's the problem... it's easy to point to certain populations to justify your opinion. Gorgeous, 30-something women aren't hard to find in certain parts of California, as an example. Great hair, tanned, fit, perfect teeth... But they're not the average. In fact, they're serious outliers who have the time and resources to invest in looking as youthful as possible (and possibly have shit easy enough that stress never has been a factor in their lives).

Essentially, the more affluent your social circle, the less The Wall will seem like a thing. Youth is, has, and will always be valued. But consider what happens when everyone appears more youthful than they really are? The youth of the truly youthful won't be valued as much as it otherwise would be. This hits younger women harder who may not be as interesting due to more limited life experiences.

Personally, I have to just assume that your "thing" is slightly older women (not judging, just observing). I'm also in my 30s, and I just don't agree. I love women in their early 20s. My GF is 8 years younger than me. The women in my past who were my age or older were not noticeably more "seductive" than those significantly younger than me. I can point to several older women who I find incredibly attractive... but they're a minority.

TL;DR: Sample bias on all counts.

[deleted] · 2015-10-03T03:19:25+00:00

The wall is a fact. It is the point at which women stop increasing in SMV and begin to show the signs of aging.

Yes, some women can improve their SMV after 30. They can use surgery, diet, exercise, and a few can even become better and more interesting people.

There are always outliers and anecdotes, but the fact remains that for the vast majority of women, age 30 is the end of looking really good and doing so relatively easily.

thereddespair · 2015-10-02T22:59:59+00:00

A lot of 30 year olds can pass for someone in their 20s. Its not really the number i believe, it is at what visual age you can pass as maybe

APlaceInsideMyHead · 2015-10-03T02:40:02+00:00

Seductiveness implies experience, which is not attractive to me. I enjoy teaching my partners about sex, e.g. my current girl was a virgin when I met her.

There are certainly older women who are still extremely physically attractive, but they are outliers, and generally come with all sorts of baggage from previous relationships.

Nazrath2112 · 2015-10-03T03:12:48+00:00

The wall is a sliding scale it is not the same for all chicks.

joseremarque · 2015-10-03T15:22:17+00:00

I agree there is a Wall. I just don't agree with manosphere thinking circa 2012 that all women hit the Wall around age 30. I also don't agree that it's always a Wall. It's more like a trampoline for some; a steel door for others.

All women hit The Wall. There's a really, really wide range of when women impact it. I've seen some women hit it as young as their early 20s. There are some who keep the Wall away until their late 40s. It's really all a matter of genetics and taking care of oneself. If a woman has poor genetics she'll be well on her way to the Wall around age 25. If she takes good care of herself, keeps her weight down, no smoking/illegal drugs and limited drinking/partying, she can stave off the Wall to her 40s. There are many, many women in their 30s and 40s in good shape and quite attractive enough to attract men.

The second thing I disagree with about conventional wisdom about the Wall is that for many women it is not the life-altering experience many seem to think it is. CW says a woman hits the wall at 30, her romantic/sexual life is over, finito, done. Not true at all. There are a lot of women going into first marriages in their late 30s. There are a lot of women having active post divorce sex lives in their late 30s and early 40s. There are so many thirsty men and their thirst is so severe they are willing to wife up these women. So it's a function not only of some women's attractiveness not declining as rapidly as CW says it will. It's also a function of men's severe thirst such they they're willing to take whatever they can get.

[deleted] · 2015-10-04T20:34:18+00:00

The wall does exist. There does come an age where women's looks start to fade, however, it's not really a huge deal as TRP make it out to be. Plain and even less attractive women still have options. It's only a problem if a woman won't settle for anything less than chad thundercock. There are plenty of men who are not low lives who don't have high standards for wifing a woman up. Women are only chronically single if they make a choice to be that way.

alreadyredschool · 2015-10-02T23:17:02+00:00

Wall and attractiveness are not strictly related, decrease in attractiveness leads to a faster change of perception but isn't the cause.

The wall = change in priorities

From short term happiness to long term happiness.

stats135 · 2015-10-03T00:12:08+00:00

First you need to understand in what scenarios the wall applies to. For short term goals the wall is irrelevant; if she looks hot, you try to fuck her, simple as that. Her age (or anything else aside from her looks) does not matter. However, if you have long term goals, what is the most important is not the here and now. You have to weigh out the entire package, your relationship from the here and now all the way up til divorce or death whichever comes first.

Lets take a look at the same woman you described. Sure some are attractive even though they are in their 30's. But you are not looking at the entire package. Lets assume the average length of a marriage is 35 years (actual number may vary depending on demographics) either ending in divorce or death of a partner. So if you wife up an 18 yo, you get a marriage with a woman aged 18-53. You are able to fuck her when she got the sweet untouched body from age 18 to her late-twenties, the seductiveness she acquired thorugh experience with you from her late-twenties to her mid-forties and her residual sexual value from her mid-forties to early fifties. However if you wife up a woman in her thirties you get a marriage with a woman aged thirties into her sixties. Sure you get the seductiveness right her and now, but what happens in the future? What happens in the remainder of the marriage? You got yourself a useless old hag and nothing more. This is why you hear from TRP that woman get married right before they hit the wall. The wall is not the age where a woman just suddenly turns wrinkly and ugly. It is the point where marrying the woman only gives a man very few years (if that) of sexual gratification, and therefore not worth the risk to marry.

blametheboogie · 2015-10-03T10:45:08+00:00

Are you saying that there is no wall at all or that you think it's simply older than rp claims?

Ask a 70 year old woman if they think there is a wall.

[deleted] · 2015-10-03T15:22:31+00:00

My standards aren't high enough to be honest. I find a lot of older women attractive. The less wrinkles the better though.

OlBastard · 2015-10-03T23:40:59+00:00

A high smv male will not want a woman who has reached the wall. Simple as that. He can easily find a younger, prettier girl, with a vagina that hasn't had as much foreign DNA in there.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ele.12373/abstract

Sir_Shitlord_focker · 2015-10-04T01:10:07+00:00

LOL notice how you picked 35 and not 50 ? Yeah that's what we call "THE WALL" :)

sugarwallsrobinson · 2015-10-06T00:46:54+00:00

Of course there are genetic marvels out there who don't hit a wall until they are 40, but for the most part women hit a wall... Some harder than others. Professional type of women who work 50hours a week and then party hard on the weekend look 50 by the time they're 35 regardless of how much they moisturize and workout.

Title	I'm a red piller, but I don't agree with the concept of the wall. Any opinions from other red pillers?
Author	redpillnowall
Upvotes	8
Comments	25
Date	October 2, 2015 10:55 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3na7tq/im_a_red_piller_but_i_dont_agree_with_the_concept/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/im-a-red-piller-but-i-dont-agree-with-the-concept.279274 https://theredarchive.com/post/279274

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