The idea behind 'Be Yourself'.

Archwinger · 2014-03-14T17:58:55+00:00

It's a misconception that TRP espouses pretending to be something you're not and lying to women to obtain short-term sexual relationships. That's one strategy I guess people could use, and it's not condemned anywhere on TRP, but the large majority of the Red Pill advice focuses on actually being an attractive guy who gets girls, not pretending anything.

Most girls like good-looking, physically fit guys. TRP tells you to hit the gym and lift weights.

Most girls like successful guys. TRP tells you to dress well and be professionally successful.

Most girls like confident guys. TRP tells you to approach girls, be forward about what you want, what you think, and what you're like. (The exact opposite of lying and pretending.)

Most girls like guys with interesting lives who have shit going on. TRP tells you to excel at your job, develop interesting skills and hobbies, be well read, be educated, and to prioritize doing what you want to do -- girls can tag along if they want.

TRP even includes advice on how to maintain a successful long-term relationship or marriage by screening potential partners to make sure you don't accidentally end up with a slut or a lazy narcissist pretending to be good wife material, and conducting yourself in a manner that minimizes the chances of your partner cheating on you or dumping/divorcing you. All by becoming someone who's actually attractive and worth a shit. No lying or pretending required.

fiat_lux_ · 2014-03-14T18:39:17+00:00

I can agree with some of your sentiment, but there's an underlying message in the OP that I don't accept.

You're focusing on the idea that people can't change fundamental characteristics of themselves.

The idea is that you respect your own core of characteristics that you identify with and don't abandon them or change them for other people.

No one has to change himself for other people. However, it's good to change yourself for yourself. Improvement doesn't just have to be physical. It can be intellectual, social, even philosophical. Some people are not happy with themselves and aren't satisfied with feel-good bull fed to them by people living more privileged lives.

I don't buy the idea that people can't change their "core of characteristics". I've seen people change from meek to strong, crazy to sane, and desperate to confident over time.

My mother was consistently vicious and crazy. She started behaving more sanely gradually over time as our financial situation improved and as her family back in her home country were eventually pulled from poverty, educated, and relocated to less polluted areas.

And as much as I have more own reservations against the message, "fake it 'til you make it" (as some people can become too complacent on faking it), many people can and do benefit from it. Their experiences "faking it" can encourage them to change themselves for real. E.g. you've heard of the trope "becoming the mask" or "going native"? Another example: I've forced myself to take on more responsibilities than I thought I could naturally handle, against the advice of others. The added pressure forced me to change for the better, incrementally. It doesn't work for everyone, but it worked for me.

hyperrreal · 2014-03-14T19:17:33+00:00

I think you are right about this:

'Be yourself' does not mean you never have to change anything about yourself.

As human beings we are always changing, whether or we like it or not. I agree that a purely static self does not exist.

I disagree though, that it is good advice. Sort of like that other advice thread, saying 'be yourself' is just not that meaningful. It is both vague, and provides no steps forward for a person who is not 'being themselves'.

In my view, 'being yourself' is not about conforming your behavior to some 'true self', as much as it is being emotionally present in the moment, and having healthy boundaries. I think people can get closer 'to themselves' through prayer, meditation, therapy, sports, anything that helps you stay present in the moment.

The reason people get frustrated when told to 'be themselves', is because it involves significant judgement on behalf of the person saying it, and yet provides no real path forward. It points to something meaningful, but doesn't quite get there.

Also, I think your understanding of 'frame' is a bit off. Maintaining frame has nothing to do with 'being yourself' or not. It is about who is controlling the flow, content, and context of the conversation. TRP is absolutely right to advise people to do this, as not contributing to dialogue in this way is both lazy, and generally unsatisfying for everyone. Asserting one's frame is positive thing, and indicates healthy emotional boundaries.

ExpendableOne · 2014-03-14T18:17:47+00:00

In this context,"being yourself" is not helpful towards long-term/committed relationships either. If being yourself doesn't help you initiate relationships or turns off/away women, who would actually be perfect matches for long-term/committed relationships, simply because you couldn't hold their interest in the beginning stages that is a big problem.

In a perfect or egalitarian world, a man and a woman who are perfect for each other could just meet and realize their long-term potential immediately, and live a long and happy committed relationship. Unfortunately, we live in a culture where most men have to eventually learn to be someone else to gain a woman's attention and to keep it. They have to learn to hunt or they will starve, even if they hate the idea of hunting to begin with.

lokidemon731 · 2014-03-15T05:27:23+00:00

I'm going to preface this by pointing out that I am not RP, or male(my loving partner is not a she), but I hate "be yourself" because no fucking thank you. I'd rather not. My core being sucks and I don't want to be me. And anyway, who I pretend to be is, for all intents and purposes, me. I changed for other people and it's now almost impossible to separate the real me from the carefully constructed facade. It's like when you lie long enough that you start to believe your own lie. So I guess I am being myself and also being who I think other people want me to be, simultaneously.

The idea is that you respect your own core of characteristics that you identify with and don't abandon them or change them for other people.

What if everyone hates my core of characteristics? What if I am constantly told I need to change? Why can't I change for other people? Why shouldn't I? What is there to respect about my core characteristics? What if they're inherently bad? Does it make a difference if professionals tell me I need to change? If so, why? They're just people too.

You'll have to show the 'true you', otherwise it will break you eventually.

Showing it in pieces is better than acting like myself all the time. And anyway, I've been perfecting this act since I was 8 years old. I think I can handle an LTR without breaking out the real me.

If your partner loves you, she should like you and love you for who you are, not who you are pretending to be

Well that first part isn't going to happen so I'll settle for what I can get.

Otherwise, how do you expect a long-term relationship to last?

The same way all my relationships last: lying consistently about who I am and how I feel. It works, really. People love the person I pretend to be, I've maintained friendships for a decade this way.

robesta · 2014-03-15T23:02:11+00:00

I think of the concept of "self" as highly fluid.

I'm not the same guy I was in high school.

I'm not the same guy I was in college.

I'm not the same 22 year old LT in the army.

I'm not the guy who dated and married my ex wife.

I'm not the guy who watched my son and daughter born.

I'm not the guy who almost died in Afghanistan.

I'm not the guy who cried in front of my ex wife when I found out she had an 18 month affair and fucked 4 other guys and then begged her to try and work on our marriage.

I did all those things, but I would barely recognize the traits of the man that I was. Self should be an ever changing concept. I make decisions on ways to change my thinking patterns and priorities on an almost daily basis. There was a whole lot of pig flesh of experience that has gone into my life, but I shaped and molded into the sausage that I choose to be.
To me self is not inevitable, its a highly controllable concept.

[deleted] · 2014-03-15T23:16:22+00:00

Actual bluepill advice? without vitriol? This is a bluepiller I can have a beer with .....

but anywaiz ....

You can not expect someone to 'maintain frame' and playing a facade in a relationship that lasts for many years

No! OP maintaining frame is not a facade. It really boils down to you being unshakable and stoic in times of distress, being completely rational and NOT suplicating. It's not being fake, It's actually not making compromises.

HeNeverLies4 · 2014-03-18T00:32:03+00:00

The idea of "being yourself" comes from the idea that you can only be the BESTat being yourself. Your attributes are uniquely yours and cannot be duplicated.

With that said I feel like improving yourself if important. Eating right, working out, staying groomed, etc. And women love all these things. But the debate really comes down to what flaws to display and which ones to cover up?

Personally, I tend let it all hang out for women I actually care about who are potential girlfriends. But for short term flings I'll tell then what they want to here. For the most part I feel women really do the same.

My own rule of thumb is never lie to anyone you care about.

AptCasaNova · 2014-03-28T18:46:07+00:00

I think if you persue goals and hobbies you enjoy, not for the sake of maximizing your chances with the opposite sex, you'll attract the right person and the facade you used to get them in the first place will never drop.. because the facade never existed.

I really get tired of men pretending to be interested in my hobbies and then 6 months in, they either outright confess to not liking them or their behaviour gives it away.

If you're going to fake being a certain way, at least choose something sustainable long-term.

I do believe people can change. I've changed myself in the past few years - which was really hard. I didn't do it to land a bf, in fact, I lost one because our lifestyles became so different. That was sad, but I eventuall met someone who aligns with my new goals and perspective.

This is what is means to "be yourself".

Title	The idea behind 'Be Yourself'.
Author	Those_Who_Remain
Upvotes	9
Comments	33
Date	March 14, 2014 5:43 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/20f1qc/the_idea_behind_be_yourself/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-idea-behind-be-yourself.286078 https://theredarchive.com/post/286078

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