What about infidelity?

merafif · 2019-06-24T05:18:33+00:00

I think the problem here is you’re expecting too much. You’ve never even had a real relationship before! So find someone you like, go out on dates, make mistakes, figure out what you value in a partner.

You are WAY ahead of yourself here. Start a relationship before you worry about cheating. Also, if you go in with that way of thinking, you’ll obsess over everything your SO does, which will put distance between you two. Hence the self-fulfilling prophesy.

I don’t usually reply to these posts, but I just want to say: you’re a baby in the dating game. Nothing you’ve read from red pill “doctrine” is representative of how actual relationships with actual humans work.

I believe in you. Just gotta change how you’re approaching relationships.

Luvagoo · 2019-06-24T04:56:43+00:00

I genuinely dont know the rates of infidelity, but I do know it's not that bad. In my life I know one person who's cheated. You're definitely overthinking it. Why do you think everyone left and right is cheating? This is you projecting your insecurities onto society in general.

I know "you're insecure, stop overthinking it" is literally the most unhelpful thing ever, so think about this:

Say the infidelity "rate" is like 20% - you have a 20% chance of being cheated on if you were in a relationship. Wouldn't it be very, very stupid to not bother with the entire thing and have a 100% chance of never finding love and being lonely forever, than trying and having an 80% chance of success?

compersious · 2019-06-24T07:55:12+00:00

Relationships are a learning experience. I had to have a couple of serious relationships to learn what I actually needed in a partner, to understand strengths and flaws in myself. I went into the first couple of relationships not even aware of certain traits some people have that I just am not compatible with.

I wasn't intending these first few relationships as a tests, they were serious relationships. But by the time I was considering whether to persue relationship 3 I had a very clear idea of character traits that were a good sign of compatibility and character traits that I knew would make a relationship unfulfilling for me. The traits I was aiming to avoid in a partner were not all objectivly bad traits, they were just traits that would make the relationship a struggle for me.

I am still friends with partners from the original relationships. There was no bad blood and the second relationship was 7 years long.

In relationships you will learn about your own traits and learn about the traits of other individuals and people in general.

A great deal of insecurity related to cheating is something you will need to work on. One of the major factors that lead to the incomparability of the second relationship was that she was very jealous and suspicious. She was suffocating. Constantly checking up, being paranoid, making accusations based on nothing but paranoia. There was no cheating going on but there was so much tension caused by her fear of it. She was scared of it due to self esteem issues. Fear of not being good enough and loosing the relationship because of it. It was a self fulfilling prophecy. The fear was so suffocating that in the end the relationship broke down because of it. The fear of loosing the relationship caused the loss of the relationship.

You can have trust in someone based on their character, based on how honest of a person they show themselves to be, based on their actions, based on their morals etc. And you can give yourself a much higher chance of not running into issues by being aware of these kinds of traits. But in the end you will have unknown scenarios where you don't really know if your trust is justified and to not suffocate and damage each other you will just have to assume they are trustworthy by default unless they demonstrate otherwise. This makes you vulnerable, as it does them. But allowing that vulnerability is nesseccary. Feeling untrusted when you have done nothing wrong is can be soul destroying. It makes you feel like your partner doesn't really know you and so can't really love you as they can't even see who you actually are.

Let's say a partner wants to go out with some of their friends. Men and women. The is is fine and normal. If you are paranoid about them cheating there is a good chance you will try and restrict them, get angry about it, be controlling, be passive aggressive etc. You might have a strong reaction to them saying what they are planning. If them telling you causes a bad enough reaction enough times they will start to learn that it will be an emotional rollercoaster everytime they tell you about things like this. So what will happen? They will start telling you something else. It's a two way street. You will both have to be honest with each other, you will both have to give measured reasonable reactions to things you don't like.

Men and women are basically the same creature. Sure there might be some on average differences between the sexes at the abstract group level but we are far more similar than we are different. The types of women the redpillers talk about do exist, but they are not even close to all women. I wouldn't even say they are even the majority, or close to it. Every character traits you can find in a man somewhere you can find in a woman somewhere.

You can't straight up judge any given women and some assumed stereotype. You can't assume because woman A in your experience acted like X, then woman B will as well. Sure there are character traits and signs of those traits to be aware of and if you have learned about a negative traits in one person and then see the same signs in someone else there is a reasonable bet they might act a similar way.

When you look at women as individuals they have a massive range of tastes in men. Some tastes are more common, some less.

My partner is classically attractive. Her partner before me was short and shorter than her. They didn't break up because of his hight. She ended it because he was a horribly abusive manipulative person. We have discussed looks and attraction many times. She likes baby faced not overly masculine looking guys. That's just her taste. I am not ripped, I am loosing my hair, I have a really thin jawline like the complete opposite of the supposed wide square ideal. Yet I have a physically, emotionally, intellectually attractive partner. I am not rich. I don't have a huge dick. We just get on really well, care about each other, trust each other and find each other attractive.

Redpillers just are horribly wrong in their hypothesis. I know this from experience. I also know it because their methodology is awful and there are plenty of studies that blow their ideas out of the water. I don't mean cherry picked silly little studies. I mean decent sized studies on human psychology etc that show what redpillers think about men and women as groups is a vast oversimplification that reduces the complexities of people to the point of absurdity.

You could work on your self esteem. Exactly how is up to you. Achieving many things can help. Sounds like the gym is helping you. Hobbies, work, learning etc.

For the record up until the age of 28 I had really bad acne. Not just the odd spot but big painful lumps. Cysts often on my face, neck, back, occasionally chest. Honestly, my partner at the time just didn't give a shit about it. She didn't need me to be physically perfect or even close. Practically no one, if anyone, meets that standard.

I think looking up studies can be a good idea as well, as you have mentioned you have done. Make sure you are not just searching for "proof women cheat" or something like that. Try to search in neutral terms so you are not finding information that just confirms your fears based on confirmation bias.

It's also good you are not just in or lurking redpill communities. You don't want to get stuck in an echo chamber.

You might or might not already know of sci-hub. It allows you to download practically any scientific paper in full for free. From there you can get some of the best (likely the best) information of how actually people function than anywhere else. It's more reliable than redpill hypothesis by so many factors that redpill ideology just gets left in the dust.

I will be blunt. Women do on average show a preference for men who are taller than them. They don't tend to care if a guy is over 6 foot etc, just that the guy is taller than them. BUT that's at a level of abstraction. On an individual level some women actually like partners who are shorter. Some women simply don't care about height in either way. Some have a preference fall taller but the preference can be easily overcome by other traits like personality, other aspects to looks etc.

Let's say 5% of women don't care about height / like shorter. How many women do you need? I guarantee 5% of women is more than enough that you can find them. And you potentially only need to find 1.

Be aware of the psychology on dating apps. On dating apps people get a constant stream of pictures, profiles, hypothetical partners. This means people are being far more comparative than if they just met someone in person. Because of this and because they need to write profiles people will sometimes start to list very specific "requirements" and be far more selective that they otherwise might be. It creates a scenario that just isn't representative of every day life.

Have you ever seen the Reddit posts asking how people's partners compare to who they imagined their dream partner to be? A few say yes. Most say something like "no! they are not at all the kind of person I imagined but we just sparked and I wouldn't change them for the world"

At some point you will have to just go for it. And you will have to do it without knowing for certain someone won't betray you, but learning to default to trusting that they won't unless they give you good reason to think they will. You will have to judge them based on them, not a stereotype.

I_like_the_word_MUFF · 2019-06-24T11:22:37+00:00

So... what if they cheat? So what.

This fear of yours is so irrational it's keeping you from being loved. Your fear is controlling you.

DracheGraethe · 2019-06-24T12:15:18+00:00

You're worried about hypothetical cheating in a relationship you don't have. That's just like being worried about the dangers of black ice when driving before you even learn to drive, man. Also, cheating tends to be associated with some specific behaviors and issues.... avoiding them is useful in preventing cheating. Including, fun fact here, telling your partner that cheating is an absolute hard line for you, which (depending on what source you can find) tends to drop the rate of infidelity by well over half.

Also... the divorce rate isn't about cheating. It's actually dropping, not rising, in the long run (And it's actually under 40% in Canada, according to some quick googling). Plus, consistently, men cheat about twice as often as women.

Things worth remembering too.. cheating is more common in relationships with manipulative or emotionally withholding partnerships, low sexual satisfaction, limited or unproductive communication, when one or both partners work an excess of 40 hours a week, in situations of financial instability, in childless relationships...and these facts all make a case for being attentive, sexually desirable, attentive, emotionally open, and communicative as a way to minimize risk.

But again... being so scared of what MAY happen that you are unwilling to pursue something you badly desire is a good way to destroy yourself inside and fill yourself up with negative anger and resentment, at both women and yourself.

*edited for typo

its_going_down_ · 2019-06-24T12:01:15+00:00

I tend to feel that your overthinking is your personal way to come up with an excuse to not go out and get to know girls.

And the reason why you might really feel that everyone is cheating is that you're reading TRP content. Many guys that find the red pill actually have been dumped, divorced and/or cheated on and share their experiences here. But based on your stats there is also >50% who do not divorce etc. So the glass might also be half full.

BrokenArrows95 · 2019-06-24T12:14:34+00:00

It's incredibly hard to get solid evidence for the "soft" social sciences. That's why it's rampant with misinformation. Also people are very emotionally driven which is the opposite of logic. That's how things like TRP happen. They feed off the paranoia with cherry-picked articles and "studies".

I have, anecdotally, found a lot of people stay in really terrible relationships just because they don't want to single and put in the work to meet another person. That seems like a perfect seed for infidelity to start. Being unhappy for a long time and then someone else shows some interest and they jump on the opportunity.

bluescrew · 2019-06-24T12:29:22+00:00

You need higher standards for a girlfriend than just "someone who won't cheat."

Try someone who is kind. Someone who can teach you things. Someone who is good at saving money. Someone who likes to go out and see live music with you. Pick something that would make you happy in a partner that isn't the bare minimum requirement, and focus on that. You can't possibly know if someone is a cheater just by dating them- in fact the cheater sometimes doesn't even know they're a cheater until the moment they cheat. So you need to just let go of that and accept that it might happen, and you need to believe that the experience of loving someone and being loved is worth the risk.

Also cheating doesn't mean they don't love you. It probably means the relationship is over and that's absolutely your right. But don't devalue yourself because of it. People of all kinds cheat and get cheated on- attractive people, unattractive people, rich people, poor people, even people in open relationships can STILL get cheated on, and do. You don't get cheated on because you're ugly, you get cheated on because something is wrong with the cheater. Period. It says nothing about your value as a partner.

goblinboglin · 2019-06-24T12:17:23+00:00

You are not getting married by creating online dating profile and fucking few chicks here and there.

Get out of your head.

beanfiddler · 2019-06-24T18:29:47+00:00

The point is, after looking at the divorce rate (48%) in my country of Canada from stats of 2016 and other articles on the 1st page of google about infidelity rates, it feels like EVERYONE is cheating left and right at one point or another in their lifetime. Some say it's close to 25% others more like 70%. Numbers don't lie right?

You seem like the type to overthink things when you have anxiety. That's fine, I do the same thing! I little bit of suggestions for you, if you wish to take them:

I'd see if you can make time to seek a psychologist. The reoccurring thought process you describe sounds like anxiety or depression... or both. For a long time, I was misdiagnosed with depression, but it was really anxiety. Once I got on pills that treated the anxiety (xanex and prosac, rather than zoloft), a lot of reoccuring thoughts of worthlessness faded. I supplement with exercise (which I see you're doing; go you!) and CBD to keep my mood up and keep myself from spiraling into old anxiety patterns.

Second thought: if you're into overthinking and researching your fears, take time when you're in a fairly decent mood (not a negative mood!) and re-research your fears regarding divorce. The statistics you quote (that I requoted above) really only apply to the base average of all people. They don't apply to people with an education, who get married in their late 20s or 30s, and people who wait to lose their virginity. Once you factor in facts that apply to you, not to the general population, I'm sure that the divorce rate (and cheating rate) for people like you is way, way, way lower than you think.

I waited until I was 26 to get married, my wife and I both have advanced degrees, and we both lost our virginities in our early to mid 20s (rather late, in the scheme of things). I don't remember where I got the figure, but I did find something to the tune that people like us, in our country, get divorced at about the third of the rate of people in the country generally.

Also, I encourage you to discuss these fears of infidelity with SOs when you start dating fairly early in the relationship. Setting healthy boundaries and establishing expectations is good, it keeps you both on the same page. I wouldn't do what some people do, which is play the field, hook up, and fail to firmly define a relationship. If you want a more traditional relationship, with exclusive monogamous dating, I think you should be honest about it and don't compromise solely for the sake of getting your dick wet. We find the people we seek, and if you seek girls who are comfortable with undefined boundaries and relationships, or just fail to screen them out, you're going to self-select for less monogamous behaviors.

There's plenty of people that don't want to participate in hookup culture and plenty of people that are far, far to busy to date more than one person at a time. If that's the kind of person you are, you just own it, and stop trying to force yourself to participate in hookup culture and the messy undefined dating, no commitment, thing that people do these days.

Personally, I prefer to set exclusivity within the first couple of dates, long before we do anything other than exchange chaste kisses, because I'm not comfortable with anything else. There's plenty of girls and guys out there that feel that way, and you should totally own it, rather than try to be something that you're not! There's nothing wrong with exclusivity and setting boundaries. I think you'll be a lot happier if you stop dwelling on what you think that most women behave like and focus, instead, on what you want and how to express that to people you date. If they don't want it also, then expressing what you want up front will ensure that you don't waste their time or yours, or get cheated on.

egerstein · 2019-06-24T20:36:29+00:00

I work with statistics a lot, and while they can be a very useful tool to understand the world, they can also mislead, as I think they’re doing to you. The thing you always need to bear in mind, particularly when looking at statistics that track individuals’ choices is to not conflate statistics on groups with the probability that an individual in the group will conform to them. Statistics are just top line numbers. In every specific case involving human behavior the actual probability of an event has a lot more to do with the details of the individual and the situation than the percentage of overall occurrence in the population.

For example, suppose the rate of infidelity in Canada is 50% (one out of every two people in a monogamous relationship will cheat). That sounds pretty bad, and maybe it is, but it doesn’t necessarily imply that YOUR partner has a 1 in 2 chance of cheating on you. That’s a much more complicated question that depends on hundreds of variables specific to an individual such as how old you two were when you got together, how many partners they’ve had beforehand, are they emotionally secure or do they require a lot of positive attention, are you two enjoying the relationship, is your partner a relatively empathetic person, does your partner have a lot of opportunities to cheat, did they grow up in a stable household where their parents loved each other, did either of their parents cheat—the list goes on and on.

From personal experience, while you can never guarantee absolutely that your partner will be faithful, you can dramatically increase the likelihood they will be by taking care to choose a quality partner.

roguish_rogue · 2019-06-26T01:19:51+00:00

Congratulations on the weight loss and gains, much respect.

You dont have to expect it to last forever just because you have a girlfriend, you need practice, go get practice.

Serial monogamy is the norm, cheating is pretty common I think, I have been the other guy a few times and been cheated on once myself but I kinda know why, obviously fuck her that ****, but I did have a role in it, and it would not have happined today like it did then.

You care way too much, you need to enhance your chill imo, life is risk and life is sometimes pain, but there is so much beauty and joy too.

Pastelitomaracucho · 2019-06-24T08:42:20+00:00

You are seriously overthinking it.

Thing is, you will either get cheated on or you will cheat at any point in life. It is an almost inescapable fact. Learn to accept that it may happen and if it does, it will not be the end of the world.

I know A LOT of infidelity cases. It is almost universal. To me, EVERYONE will cheat at some point, given the right circumstances. I accept it and decide to live a happy life knowing this.

The only thing you can do is to accept things that escape you control. You can control your own life. You can control how to react if you ever get cheated on. You have the freedom to decide what to do with the information you are given. That is the ultimate gift. You are free, even when you have no control.

> Someone you share your life with, a girlfriend that turns into the mother of your children and you stay together for 40-50-70+ years together.

You have not even started dating. How do you know you want to spend 40+years with someone? Might as well be that by year 4 you are absolutely miserable and end up swooning for that other cute girl that works with you and seems to care about you....

> I don't think I can suspect anyone (aunts,uncles,cousins etc) to be cheaters, they all seems pretty monogamous. At least in appearance. Could it all be a lie?

I GUARANTEE YOU it is all a lie. They are of have cheated or been cheated on.

And that is OK. It is part of life. You need to accept reality as it is and focus on yourself and making the best you can in life. A cheater will not be the end of the world.

bluehorserunning · 2019-06-26T16:55:40+00:00

Wow, guys. Reading the comments here made me really happy. You all sound so sane and normal :) After seeing some of the stuff posted on other parts of Reddit, you're all a breath of fresh air.

Title	What about infidelity?
Author	powiwaka
Upvotes	17
Comments	39
Date	June 24, 2019 4:22 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/c4i5qe/what_about_infidelity/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/what-about-infidelity.299726 https://theredarchive.com/post/299726

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