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Do guys with no game and no "friend game" have similar underlying issues that cause both problems?

Reddit View
January 22, 2020

I see a lot of questions on here about making friends and I think a lot of the answers aren't very helpful. "It's hard as an adult" "get hobbies" etc. But today I was reflecting on my friendship history over my whole life and had an epiphany about the similarity between game and making close friends and how some basic underlying personality issues might cause someone to be bad at both things. I'm curious to hear what you all think.

I'm in my 40s and have no close friends because my only close friend did some shitty things and I had to cut him out of my life. I'm a perfectly friendly and personable guy and have lots of acquaintances but throughout my life I've almost always only had one close friend, and I was reflecting on why that was and what's wrong with me and I noticed some patterns.

I think a lot of guys here with these problems were probably teased, bullied, or made fun of at some point in childhood for being different for whatever reason. A little odd, socially awkward, too skinny, too fat, too tall, too short, unathletic, wrong accent, wrong race, or your mom dressed you funny. It doesn't have to have been anything seriously traumatic, but I think that kind of stuff at an early age gives you social anxiety and you try to avoid interactions to avoid getting hurt. Same thing as avoiding romantic rejection.

When I was a kid I remember thinking "that person doesn't really like me" "they don't actually want to be friends with me" and things like that. So I didn't make any effort to be friends and probably missed out on being closer friends with people who actually liked me. Basically I had "approach anxiety" because I didn't "assume attraction".

I don't know if it's an innate personality trait or a coping mechanism that I developed, but I'm perfectly happy being alone. So I never developed the skills to build and maintain closer friendships. How could I learn and get better if I wasn't actually practicing "friend game"?

And then if I'm happy enough being alone, getting one close friend is even better. Why bother having any other friends? It's basically a friend version of "oneitis". And a lack of abundance. I take what I can get because I assume nobody else will have me.

So the only close friends I had were people who made all of the effort to be my friend themselves. Just like the only girlfriends I've had were women who pursued me. And as a result, these weren't always the best quality friends I could have gotten. A lot of my close friends throughout life were oddballs, had mental health issues, or people who did shitty things and burned all of their other bridges. People who were kind of desperate and latched onto me. And then I would assume that's because I'm a loser and only other losers would like me.

Having only one close friend meant I stayed too long in friendships with shitty people who I would have bailed on a lot sooner if I had a lot of other friends. Same thing as getting stuck in an LTR because of lack of abundance.

What do you all think? Does anyone else relate to this?

TLDR: Fear of rejection leads to fear of approaching leads to lack of relevant social skills and experience leads to settling for whatever falls in your lap, oneitis, and lack of abundance.

Post Information
Title Do guys with no game and no "friend game" have similar underlying issues that cause both problems?
Author grandmapurp
Upvotes 128
Comments 41
Date 22 January 2020 08:03 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askTRP
Original Link
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:
abundancelong term relationshipgamecloseapproach anxiety

[–]drevil_77 points78 points  (4 children) | Copy

abundance mentality in all areas of life is important part of success.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy


[–]Enlightened_Chimp13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy

After enough time of not having abundance with friends/girls, you stop giving a fuck which ironically makes friends/girls like you more and allows you to attain abundance. At least this is how it worked for me.

[–]cadaemos5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I can confirm this effect and it's kind off ironic. The moment I started getting girls and friends easily I gave less fucks about having friends or girls. Of course this opened the doors for me to create a social circle of people i want to have in it.

Edit: When I look back at my younger self, I realise how trivial some things are and I even pity myself for not knowing some things. Sadly, I can never turn back time, only move forward.

[–]Helmet_Icicle2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Seduction is just optimal social interaction with added sexual energy.

[–]Youngyoda8924 points25 points  (3 children) | Copy

I don’t really have close friends. I’m much better at gaming women then making male friends. Most of my old male friends were free loaders. I find that after a few small scale (in the big picture) successes I have a lot of people asking me for money or other annoying favors.

One guy keeps pestering me to send my gf a picture of him for her to send to her friends and “ask if the would date him”. I’m 29 and this guy is in his 50s. My gf doesn’t have a lot of female friends. I’ve already told him that. He isn’t just asking he is really banking on that move to get him a girlfriend. I’m thinking of cutting him off just for the simple fact that he is dumb as fuck.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy


[–]Youngyoda895 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

True. I’m more annoyed with the fact that anyone in general asks me stupid ass favors. Asking “to see if you’re girl has any friends for me” is literally some high school shit. I hear this idiot constantly talk about asking people this. He NEVER gets any results and always gets mad when he doesn’t.

[–]Sergelano45 points46 points  (4 children) | Copy

Spot on my friend, childhood bullying basically getting bullied while growing up can cause alot of problems later in life.

From depression to anxiety and even stutter.

These type of peoples are the ones that overthink every situation and interaction. They are basically thinking like example: “shit what do i need to say now, hes/shes going to think im weird”

Basically social awkwardness/ low self esteem/ negative self talk/ seeing yourself less and these things cause them to be bad at making friends and getting dates

But good news is our brains are neuroplastic, with enough time and taking action we can reserve the damage and change our beliefs about our selfves.

[–]ArnoldT100012 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy

Defining yourself based on social and sexual success is one of the most weak and blind things you can do as a man.

When you realize how easy it is to manipulate people with game, you realize how stupid it is to define yourself based on the fruits of game (social + sexual success).

Your sense of worth should only come from the extent to which you’re following your mission. Only you can define you.

Yes, create abundance for yourself by learning and playing the game (by emulating alpha characteristics until they become natural), because as human beings we have social and sexual needs. No, do not define yourself based on these things. They’re just tools in your tool box to help you pursue your mission.

TRP says to LIVE IN YOUR OWN FRAME. If you’re reliant on others for your sense of self, you’re living in the frame of others.

All your actions should be self-motivated, and nothing should define your worth besides your mission.

Read up on inner game.

[–]mickey__2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Read up on inner game.


[–]Zafer661 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

tough spot to be, but thats basically my situation right now. life feels miserable and frustrating, but cant hopefully be any worse than this...

[–]Zanford37 points38 points  (1 child) | Copy

Crab bucket mentality. Blue pill guys often make shitty friends because they have a zero-sum mentality where they can only go up by pushing others down. They are quick to condemn RP behavior and self-improvement because it's too ego-crushing for them to admit their entire life has been a lie, and they've spent decades as cubicle drones and sexless Nice Guys for no reason at all. To go back to the origin of the 'red pill' meme source material: "We never free a mind once it's reached a certain age. The mind has trouble letting go."

And, yes, these things contribute to atrophy of social skills.

[–]Jessor694 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not op but thank you for this.

[–]GrognardTheUnbathed8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

Time to apply dread to my homie so he can stop hogging the chips.

[–]3chazthundergut10 points11 points  (4 children) | Copy

Sometimes yes sometimes no. You do need a basic amount of social skill for both.

But some of my highest quality friends are absolutely terrible with chicks. And some guys who cant maintain a solid friendship for more than 2 years without blowing it up still get laid

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy


[–]discohumpty1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I don't think guys don't realize that they're not interconnected. Personality issues are the crux of everything. Its more that girls are much easier to get than male friends (speaking personally) and there's more reward attached to getting girls over a buddy. Why try to woo a guy.

The sexual attraction lubricant or pair bonding aspect also makes it easier to land with girls. On the other side, guys are only interested in hanging with dudes if they offer some social value to their life's or are higher value than themselves.

Commonalities can help, but it's more as you said a personality issue - can dude hang and shoot the shit in a fun, engaging way. At least with a girl you can provide a sexual experience, and generally have interests and knowledge to share with them that they're usually forgeign to. Guys typically have that already so theres not a lot of new value to give. This is not mentioning all the ego, and who's the more alpha game guys play instinctually with another.

This is more me thinking it out or rationalizing it because I struggle severely in this category. Either way, it seems like it's much harder to get guy friends when you are lower social value than to get with girls. I would like to change that but not sure how.

[–]jjbwrams12340 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I think this is where the childhood and growing up shit comes, but in my case im having totally different experience where i have more male friends and most of them are good(lucky me) but this was not the case in my childhood as i had been bullied and Harassed and lost the ability to interact socially. As for the the women part goes i had pretty bad women personalities in my life and adding my social anxiety and depression made it worse for me to interact with women, which then eventually making me a person having no female friends or sexual interaction with women. But for the male friends part the people i had are great actually and they helped me in various ways and we not only share Commonality but also the the thought process that is similar, and as far as enjoying life with them i enjoy every moment(drinking going out etc) because they're really fucking cool, funny and good natured although it nowhere near means that i haven't had any bad friends and shitty people its always a learning curve. As for women im learning things and yeah thanks to trp For that but eventually my say is that it, in this type of cases always comes down to the fact that what kind of childhood experiences you had and how you've been shaped(which can be morphed with the time) determines your successful relationship with people, women and how you deal with the life in general. As for my personality goes its not too good and not too bad, people see me as a person who wants to be friends with and not demanding shit from me. And yet i had Succeeded making some good and some bad friends and yes some female friends too.

[–]bourbonhipster6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

I was going to go with "dad left at their most formative years" angle.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–]rokr100 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Isn't that the truth. My dad was NEVER around in my life, and his dad (my grandpa) was always working and never taught my dad anything. I personally do not want kids, only because I have no idea or desire to be a dad.

[–]Endorsed Contributorleftajar4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Confidence plus vulnerability is the way.

Guys like the ones you mentioned, have trouble with both from having bad experiences.

Unfortunately it's tough to bootstrap yourself out of that. That's why we harp on fitness and grooming so much; it's a dumb-dumb-anyone-can-do-it way to start getting some positive feedback from the world.

[–]Hubblenobbin4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

No, pull your friends up with you, that's how you inspire loyalty. If they try to pull you down, that's when you let them go.

As far as why guys can't make friends? Some combination of mental health issues, low EQ, bad early socialization. It's fixed through therapy/socializing.

[–]WiterS22 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you can't talk to a man, you can't talk to a woman, because you can't talk at people.

[–]slayerbizkit3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

By pure chance , I followed of some local politicians in my city, and I start volunteering for stuff that caught my eye, small things that only take 1-2 hours, like packing First Aid Kits. I can honestly say I've met people that closely align with my values by doing volunteer, doing things I genuinely enjoy vs. the randomness of going to college or a job. I have kind of a big ego and volunteering lets my mind focus on the bigger picture/mission vs. just myself. It truly grounds a person after running the rat race for so long. Being genuinely considerate of needs outside of yourself, for some reason, is super attractive to chicks. Peace and God Bless.

[–]11-Eleven-112 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Damn, if you said you were an engineer I'd assume you were me from the future.

[–]life0361 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Man, this is a tough question. I've been lucky enough to have had a really close-knit group of friends since grade school, and we're all damn near 36-40 at this point. I'd like to think that our ability to stay connected is due to our innate awesomeness and intelligence, but I suspect this all just may be an accident of circumstance. I mean, I don't even try, and neither does anyone else in our friend group. But I come to this sub and I hear a lot of tryharding about finding friends and it sounds so alien to me, and it makes me question whether I'm just lucky or if I have been unknowingly doing something right.

I do get hard twinges of empathy when I hear stories like this, though. I'm really curious if there's a way we can figure out if OP's problem is a simple issue of nature or nurture.

That's all I can offer on the subject, but I'm here for the ride regardless.

[–]girlpearl0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Both of them don't want to be manipulated so you don't trust them.

[–]Sissy-Independence0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

How is is CoDe?

[–]TheStumblingWolf0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

They're both a subset of social skills imho.

[–]RPthrowaway1230 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is actually pretty accurate for me. I got bullied and made fun of a lot growing up, and I took a lot of major rejection in my early life missions (mainly athletics and school things) which I took extremely hard. It's bled over into lots of areas in my life, where confidence and going after what you want are huge components of success.

It's harder to put the work in and put yourself out there in whatever capacity when you grew up with none of that paying off, basically.

[–]VictxrSenpai0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

My life to a tee. i think its all personal bullshit. I was an extrovert at a young age till acne destroyed my self esteem and now i live with extreme self consciousness issues from that and as a result have become a bit of an introvert. Even most of the women who i have been with have all pursued me.However, i was raised as an only child so i know how to have a good time by myself which makes being alone much easier.

[–]VictxrSenpai0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

My life to a tee. i think its all personal bullshit. I was an extrovert at a young age till acne destroyed my self esteem and now i live with extreme self consciousness issues from that and as a result have become a bit of an introvert. Even most of the women who i have been with have all pursued me.However, i was raised as an only child so i know how to have a good time by myself which makes being alone much easier.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes and no in my experience. For some, I can see this being the case. For me, I have a weird relationship with the topic.

Wasn't popular in middle and high school. Got made fun of. Was known as being weird and not normal. Shit did a number on my self-esteem and confidence. Didn't have a kiss all of school until college, didn't really come close to one either. Grinded on a girl like one time--that was it.

Went to college. Slowly started to do really well with women. Realized even back in my earlier years women liked me, when I wasn't "cool." Have tons of confidence with women now and really enjoy their company, even ones who are just friends.

For the life of me I can't relate to men for shit. I can talk about sports and that's about it. Cooler, more "alpha" guys who get as much pussy as me never like me. I got kicked out of my fraternity. I don't really like them either. They just hog all the attention and try to one-up each other. Always trying to compete and determine who's the biggest Alpha of them all. I don't enjoy it. Beta males are annoying and judge me for fucking lots of girls. They also have nothing interesting to talk about, unlike girls.

To this day, I'm not really that confident with other men. I usually only keep a few close friends. Right now I would say I have one I actually hang out with--I have two back home from HS I keep in contact with. Women like me just fine. I just spend most of my time with women. I've grown to enjoy the lone wolf type of life.

[–]amphix3390 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You nailed the causes. Most of what you said affected me. But I got through it for the most part. Right now I'm more of the I don't need friends kind of way. I don't feel like there are many people who are in the same mentality as me.

19 years old, I'm determined to leave my legacy. Not saying I'm going to do it tomorrow but I'm working. Hard. And most 19 year olds just want to get high and do self destruction things.

I'm happy with gaming women as my only form of social interaction. Sure at times I feel a close male friend would be dope to express my man feelings to, but hey. Abundance mindset. If I make a connection then I make a connection.

[–]xxx69harambe69xxx-3 points-2 points  (4 children) | Copy

nobody wants to be around someone who is facially deformed, same can be said about mental deformities

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–]xxx69harambe69xxx2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

just world fallacy


[–]11-Eleven-112 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

wtf is wrong with you incel retards?

[–]Hubblenobbin1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lack of a robust mental health care system, stigma, and poor public education. The poor bastards never stood a chance.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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