Genetics vs Environment/upbringing

DangZagnut · 2020-04-24T09:28:39+00:00

Although geneticsc factor can play a role, almost all personality "traits" are from parenting and environment. Definitely the majority is "nurture", which then plays on a person's inherent "nature".

For example. Psychopathy is something like, what 6% of the population or so? Most are directed into fields where that dispassion makes sense. Surgery, literature, corporate CEOs, military leaders, etc. But some degrade into sociopaths, and lash out at those around them.

So you can be born a psychopath, but you can then be made a sociopath due to environment, or you can become a brilliant surgeon and not be a societal problem.

You are born with certain possible outcomes, but then your environment shapes those outcomes and warps them particular way.

Can a big scary person be nice? Sure. Their outer looks mean nothing, anymore than a little blonde girl with pigtails is somehow immune to lying about everything and getting people in trouble just for the lols.

xXxINCELFAGGOTxXx · 2020-04-24T10:38:24+00:00

I'v seen 6'5 225 pounds guys the typical scary looking ''jock/high t men'' act like the nice guy/beta. Which most of them had been bullied at some point.

This doesn't change the fact that a massive man like that has capability of doing serious damage. They might had terrible upbringing with no father model so their natural tendencies seem to be suppressed. But hell, I've seen those "cuddly big boys" go mad and you definitely couldn't say they're beta.

Someone who was born without high level of androgens won't have those tendencies to act dominant, violent and so on even if he has normal childhood with masculine father.

At least that's what I can tell judging by childhood of my friends.

That's why I consider TRP to be a mental suicide for all those genetically weak men who try to act like warlords. This shit will take it's toll.

beyond_relevant · 2020-04-24T13:57:28+00:00

Big men are seen as imposing just because they are big, small men must act imposing lest they become invisible.

Small men are forced into action, big men can allow to be passive.

This is how the "just be yourself" advice came to be.

DareyFathom · 2020-04-24T09:13:53+00:00

It's both.

BothWaysItGoes · 2020-04-24T13:47:26+00:00

The dichotomy makes no sense. First, genes decide whether you turn out a human, an ant, a bee, a dolphin or something else. Second, so does everything else, a zygote has no brain, legs or nerve system, you need a whole environment that helps it grow into a human. At that point you should realize that the impact of both genes and environment is absolutely massive and it makes zero sense to talk about one without the other, and it is even more complicated because of the various gene-environment interactions (genes may 'matter' more depending on the age, location, gender, weather, etc). Third, it is not clear why environment and upbringing should be bundled together, prenatal hormonal influence would technically be "envirionment" and so is your parents' behaviour, but dealing with these two factors leads to vastly different implications for policy, behaviour, gender theory, etc.

What scientists that study heritability do, they take a certain population with certain genes and certain environments and then they analyze the impact of variaton of genes and variation of environment on the variaton of a given trait. That's why they can put numbers on this stuff and get funny results like heritability of wearing a ring on the fourth finger of the left hand is X% (yes, the dichotomy whether something is heritable or socially constructed is false, social constructions are heritable). You can't do that with hypotheticals, there is infinite ways to change genes and environment.

Maybe in the US the difference of leader traits people have is mostly driven by environment, but at the same in some tribe in Africa it is driven mostly by genes. How can you know based on these results what is more "imporant" in this abstract sense? You can't, nothing is more important, genes can't exist without environment, the whole question is dumb, it made sense in 17th century when people had no idea about genetics or hormones and believed in souls separate from the body, but nowadays why do we still talk about it that way?

Sergelano · 2020-04-24T09:17:45+00:00

[deleted]

DeuxPistolets · 2020-04-24T12:33:59+00:00

Psychopathy is nearly entirely heritable, and has very little to do with environment. Someone’s upbringing can influence the outcome of a person born that (i.e., ends up becoming a criminal or not). Organic structural brain differences are the cause of psychopathy.

I should also note that there are to subtypes of psychopathy. There’s factor 1 psychopathy and factor II psychopathy. Factor I psychopathy is going to be the subtype that those, that are successful, will have.

What do you really think makes you alpha/social/charismatic/athletic or beta/shy/socially anxious, genetics or environment?

This would be an answer that literally could take a novel-length response to answer. In short... There are many personality traits that are heritable, and many that are a result of environment. How attentive and caring your mother was during the first 2-3 years of your life also has a permanent affect on your developing brain that will stay with you your whole life. Levels of neuroticism (anxiety, depression, etc.) are largely genetic. Of course, life circumstances (physical attractiveness, wealth, strong family bonds, strong social network) will have an impact as well regarding your mental health.

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SartreK · 2020-04-24T10:11:33+00:00

It's actually not genetics vs environment/upbringing. Humans do have an enormously greater degree of self-influence, agency and responsibility concerning their behavior, personality and personal evolution than that.

While the genetics vs environment/upbringing dichotomy makes sense for small children, the importance of (conscious or unconscious) personal choices, work on oneself, and self-conditioning become more and more important from childhood onward… to the point of becoming preponderant by the time one becomes a grown adult.

And in a way, that's exactly what being an adult is about: To accept and take responsibility for one's own life (instead of acting as if one was just the product of the influence of others). Unfortunately, not everyone has acquired the competence to drive their own life by the time they reach nominal adulthood. But that doesn't change the fact that they all are the drivers and responsible for their driving, which is by far the biggest influence on their own life.

majani · 2020-04-24T14:55:03+00:00

This is a very touchy subject that needs proper high level science to get to the bottom of. It's very easy to make casual observations that, for example, fat parents have fat children, and conclude that fat is a genetic trait.

Poison_Arrowww · 2020-04-24T16:17:25+00:00

Environment for sure. Genetics sure play a part but the tipping point and what really molds who you are is your experience and upbringing.

flamingoinghome · 2020-04-24T16:26:35+00:00

The alpha/beta thing is cringy, but in general I think genetics are very understated in how the pillosphere understands personality. It's just that "genetics" should not be used as cheap shorthand for "looks" (especially since a huge part of what we call "looks" is not genetic and is strictly informed by personality).

There's also a third option for personality that goes almost totally overlooked: will. It's neither an easy or pleasant process, but you can will yourself into altering your personality.

pongaminbloom · 2020-04-25T04:30:54+00:00

Genetics, environment, and stage of life. All interns and entry level employees act like betas, because their position requires them to take orders. As they climb the corporate ladder, they become increasingly dominant.

What's different about people who identify as betas is that even when their status improves they keep on behaving as they were conditioned to behave when they were on the bottom wrung.

musclemaniacohyeah · 2020-07-02T22:10:48+00:00

It is not the size of the dog, its the size of the fight in a dog. You look like a big dog but a coward dog inside, and people see through that. Unfortunately, that is what God gave to you.

Mrs_Drgree · 2020-04-24T09:26:27+00:00

[removed]

reluctantly_red · 2020-04-24T15:45:18+00:00

I'm 6'4" 210 lbs. I've been told I look pretty tough. Without me asking I've had several club/bar managers offer me jobs as a bouncer (guess I look the part). However, my default setting is basically nice and agreeable. I have to try hard not to be a doormat.

I attribute this to the fact that I had a decent childhood. My parents got along (married 56 years when my dad died), no substance abuse issues, no abuse, no major economic issues, no major health issues, ... . Basically nothing to harden me. As a result I was beta AF.

zino193 · 2020-04-24T19:43:06+00:00

Social context and femiliarity. The same guy can be an alpha at his job, and a total simp dancing classes. What we classify in the sexual market as alphas are just people with positive experiences that reinforced things that got them even more positive experiences.

Title	Genetics vs Environment/upbringing
Author	Sergelano
Upvotes	6
Comments	44
Date	April 24, 2020 9:09 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/g755zb/genetics_vs_environmentupbringing/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/genetics-vs-environmentupbringing.654917 https://theredarchive.com/post/654917

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