Men want us to embrace traditional femininity AND pay for dates? Confused.

[deleted] · 2016-03-23T16:46:49+00:00

Dear men: Please stop splattering your opinions all over this thread.

bicepsblastingstud · 2016-03-16T21:15:58+00:00

Men are telling their readers... while the women bloggers are saying...

Hopefully it's not too surprising that men and women are saying different things.

Your concern is one raised frequently in this subreddit; the answer is that male 'redpill' posters and female RPW posters are writing for different audiences with different objectives.

Male writers are trying to teach their readership how not to get "burned" by golddiggers, and frequently those readers are trying to go from doormat to regular person, so it's better to err on the side of being too assertive or too (emotionally) withdrawn.

Female writers are trying to teach their readers how to identify and secure the commitment of traditionally-minded men.

Hence the different advice... And the reason why most RPW should stop reading RP blogs aimed at men.

Littleknownfacts · 2016-03-16T18:26:36+00:00

Different men want different things. Some men want the opportunity to show off and pick up the check, others don't want to invest in you until you've proven yourself worthy.

StingrayVC · 2016-03-16T18:32:48+00:00

It almost seems immature or greedy, they want the feminist woman who can pay for herself, and the feminine woman who enhances her beauty and delights in being a woman/receiving masculine attention.

They expect the first while hoping for the second. It is up to you to show the man which you are.

cxj · 2016-03-17T05:10:39+00:00

Am I missing some vital piece of info?

Yes, here it is.

TBH, modern dating is a clusterfuck where very few people are on the same page about almost anything. All the old rules and customs were thrown out with the sexual revolution, it is now a laissez-faire free for all where the only true winners are the naturally very intuitive.

Try to understand that issues like this are a minefield for modern men, where some women demand chivalry and are disappointed or even offended when they don't get it, others are literally offended by offers to pay for dates/holding the door open because it supposedly implies they are incapable of doing such things themselves, and there is absolutely no inconsistency or predictability to it. While most women will simply not go on a second date, a few will pro actively attack a man's social reputation for doing the wrong thing.

The vast majority of men do not read manosphere blogs, or dating advice at all really. If you went on dates with 20 different men I'd be surprised if one of them read any of it.

I think it is extremely rude to ask someone out and not inform them ahead of time that you are going dutch.

Most men have absolutely no way of knowing this, or reliable means of tactfully finding out. Directly communicating this in the modern world of dating is likely to come off as entitled regardless of how fair that is, and could potentially drive off men with other options, AKA attractive men.

My suggestion is simply to keep first dates cheap, so if you pay half it won't be very much money. If he insists on going somewhere expensive, you can say "I can't really afford that right now, sorry" and then see if he offers to pay your way. I do not recommend this if you are just meeting for coffee, or some other inexpensive, casual date because it will come off as really cheap.

hartke20g · 2016-03-17T13:40:11+00:00

This is yet another result of feminism trying to disguise itself as egalitarianism. They told the world that women can do anything that men do, and they killed chivalry. Then men, after getting burned & confused from taking out both traditional and feminist women, began to resent this duality of only being a feminist when it's convenient. So men decided to expect exactly what the feminists were talking about, and in a way it was out of spite.

We know that modern women keep saying they want complete equality, so we give it to them; if modern women want to live by that model then we'll abide by that, but we won't let there be any doublespeak. It's amazing how many women nowadays will be so adamant about "equality", but surprise surprise, when they have to pay for a date and see the actual costs of dating (that a man always incurs), they'll quickly revert to "but I'm the girl, why should I pay?"

I'm not saying every woman does this, but that behavior has become very prevalent. The rejection of traditional gender roles, except when convenient, is taking its toll on both sexes and ruining plenty of otherwise good relationships.

RPAlternate42 · 2016-03-17T03:41:57+00:00

Isn't the general rule:

Whoever asks out pays?

Red_Pill_Raskol · 2016-03-17T07:55:10+00:00

To me this boils down to basic principles of living a Red Pill Life both for men and women.

Women: Don't expend your female nature haphazardly. That means your nurturing, your support and your sex.

Men: Don't expend your male nature haphazardly. That means your resources, your problem solving and your commitment.

The implications for both men and women are are obvious for the first few dates with a person who is essentially a stranger.

StingrayVC · 2016-03-17T12:51:57+00:00

Is it inherently unfeminine to pay for the first date? Is it inherently unmasculine to see if the woman he is with is willing to help out? Because this is how the man would look at it. Is she here to get something from me or is she a woman who wants to and is willing help me?

moderatorabused · 2016-03-16T20:18:57+00:00

90% of dates where I've paid for both (as a man) have resulted in no second date. Splitting the first date (usually just drinks) has resulted in significantly more second dates. I'd happily pay more, but it seems to backfire.

aanarchist · 2016-03-16T18:56:41+00:00

men with any red pill awareness will want you to show that they're not just a meal ticket for you, that means showing him that you show up for him and not for the free food and entertainment.

[deleted] · 2016-03-19T06:55:26+00:00

[permanently deleted]

[deleted] · Wed Mar 16 21:23:31 2016 UTC

[permanently deleted]

smallpeach · 2016-03-17T05:33:07+00:00

Side question: how do you thank the man if the check arrives and he pays/says he's got it? I just say smile and say thank you; is there a better way to do it? Should I be offering to split it even if he makes the first move?

PinnedWrists · 2016-03-16T22:40:15+00:00

He asks you out, he pays. I don't understand how anyone can think otherwise.

Mastros34 · 2016-03-16T23:23:06+00:00

You're being a bit spoiled expecting a man to pay. I'll say for me it depends. I usually go for coffee and a walk with a woman on the first date (if we met online) and we each pay our drinks individually. The problem with dating (especially online) is their are woman who just want a free meal heck I know some woman personally who have told me they'll go on dates with guys just to get a free meal.

My question is why do you expect the man to pay, why aren't you capable yourself? What I recommend is offer to split it when the check comes and don't discriminate based on what he says.

If you get offended that he has you pay half you may have just lost out on a good guy (my current gf I made split the first date and to date I've payed almost every date since). Had she got offended and not messaged me back well she might not have found a guy like me. After all she'd only be including guys who are suckers with their money throwing it away on dates with woman who sometimes use him as a free meal ticket (and are you going to be attracted to that).

In any case you really shouldn't do a first date to dinner he should be taking you somewhere fun.

snbdmliss · 2016-03-17T00:55:27+00:00

If men want us to be feminine and embrace those traditional traits, why are they rejecting the masculine nature of providing? It almost seems immature or greedy, they want the feminist woman who can pay for herself, and the feminine woman who enhances her beauty and delights in being a woman/receiving masculine attention.

I also really struggle with this. It's completely conflicting, and has/is causing a lot of heartache for me currently in my relationship.

To simply state, it seems that many men want a woman to be traditionally feminine, but there's many concepts of neo feminist women they also want in the same woman (or the ramifications of such behavior). One can't have their cake and eat it too, these concepts are in opposition, and something would have to give.

I want and am happiest being a feminine woman, I bring all those traits to the table, but if my man isn't providing his end of the bargain, that eventually makes me resentful that I'm fulfilling my end, but he's changing the rules for his end, adding even more to my plate, while he unloads his, and I can't and don't find it fair that I have to juggle it all. I believe in marriage and family, and taking care of my husband, I do not believe in being two independent people, that make l maybe like each other, but otherwise operate on their own teams. I want one team, us, and I will pour all my effort into that team, if he will too, and giver be the freedom to be feminine and I'll give him the freedom to be masculine; together were strongest.

MelissaClick · 2016-03-23T14:14:05+00:00

I've been reading "reclaiming femininity" and manosphere blogs (not MGTOW) and they seem to be giving conflicting advice. Men are telling their readers to make women pay at least 50% of the time, while the women bloggers are saying not to pay, or if you do offer and he lets you pay, that's a bad sign when you are first dating.

Different people think different things.

If men want us to be feminine and embrace those traditional traits, why are they rejecting the masculine nature of providing? It almost seems immature or greedy, they want the feminist woman who can pay for herself, and the feminine woman who enhances her beauty and delights in being a woman/receiving masculine attention.

Maybe. Certainly people do tend to be greedy. But there's another interpretation worth considering.

Namely: Someone can say they want one kind of relationship, with a certain set of tradeoffs, a certain "social contract" of expectations and responsibilities; and at the same time, they can have expectations based on another social contract -- one they don't want, but nevertheless operate under (or believe they operate under).

For example, a person can believe that workers ought to be unionized and negotiate wages collectively; meanwhile, when their workplace is not unionized, they may still seek to individually negotiate a raise.

Men who expect women to pay for dates may think that women won't live up to their end of the bargain (so to speak) if men pay for them. Even if these same men would be willing to pay for dates, as long as women did.

brooks18 · 2016-03-17T00:53:48+00:00

I see what you're saying "if a guy asks me out he should pay" and I agree with this. But I find in most situations where I'm setting up the date the girl will never let you just ask her out. I say "let's meet at X place at this time" and then it suddenly turns into a big debate about every detail. She says "no that place is too far." Or "no I gotta meet at this time and it has to be this kind of place". If this isn't how you operate OP then that's fine. If a girl just agrees to a date I set up I will always pay, but that is hardly ever the case. And then the girl still wants to say "you should pay, you asked me out" even though she picked all the details exactly the way she wanted lol. If a girl sets up dates like that then she should pay.

Title	Men want us to embrace traditional femininity AND pay for dates? Confused.
Author	delores_rose
Upvotes	29
Comments	75
Date	March 16, 2016 6:17 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/4ap2kz/men_want_us_to_embrace_traditional_femininity_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/men-want-us-to-embrace-traditional-femininity-and.86063 https://theredarchive.com/post/86063

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