What would you say to convert people to become pro men's rights?

icecoldpopsicle · 2017-04-25T21:59:04+00:00

Don't call it men's rights. People are sick of hearing about rights now a days. Just point out what's going with Divorce and 99% of men will agree with you.

Imnotmrabut · 2017-04-25T22:13:27+00:00

Actually, I have found recently the best way is simply to get people watch a certain film By cassie Jaye. The day I got the first copy It converted to Social Work/Social Care Managers here in the UK.

thegreattaiyou · 2017-04-25T21:21:36+00:00

To start, I'm very sorry to hear about the abuse you suffered. I hope you're doing okay despite it.

To answer your question, there unfortunately isn't an easy way to change someone's mind. In my limited, personal experience I find that people change their own minds, and all you can do is provide them with the resources to reach a given conclusion.

My advice, if you choose to accept it, would be to keep sharing your story. Don't force it on people with anger, but also don't be afraid to express your genuine feelings towards what happened.

I find that people more easily change their minds when they learn a new view point from someone they respect.

splodgenessabounds · 2017-04-26T07:05:27+00:00

I'm not convinced you can "convert" anyone to any cause - social, political, religious or otherwise - because at some point any decision to "convert" to The Cause has to be theirs (assuming we're not discussing totalitarian regimes, that is). That is not to say, however, that you can't guide them in the general direction, either by persuasive rhetoric or by presenting critical facts (but preferably both).

In the case of MR, a few points I think might be useful:

don't waste time and effort with those who are flag-bearers for the Feminist cause or who are card-carrying misandrists - if reality hasn't made a dent in their armour, you certainly won't. Choose people who still appear to have some acquaintance with open-mindedness.
in many circumstances, I've found (like others here have) that even the mention of Men's Rights is enough for many otherwise reasonable people to slam the door in your face. So, don't mention MR unless you're sure you're on good ground with them. What you can do is tell them that you are helping to right some obvious societal wrongs (it's perfectly fair to throw in words like "discrimination", "sexism", "disadvantage" and so on) and give examples of those wrongs that you're fighting.
with some individuals and groups, it might be enough to simply throw facts and figures into the discussion (make sure you've got references handy, cos you will be challenged) and let them work it out for themselves. Again, unless you know you're on good ground, leave out any mention of MR.
in other cases, focus on one issue (or a small number of inter-related ones) that is core to Men's Rights and take it as far as you can - comparative rates of suicide for example. Get your facts right, get your references in order, and go in to bat. Again, you don't even have to mention MR - it's simply an appalling global theme and it needs addressing.

Above all, don't come across as though you're some sort of evangelist on a mission to convert the Great Unwashed to the True Truth.

cld8 · 2017-04-26T01:29:02+00:00

I think the best thing to do is to tell your stories. Point out the injustices. Boys are molested by women. Male college students are expelled based on false rape accusations. Men are forced to live in poverty due to alimony payments designed to ensure their ex-wives a comfortable standard of living.

Don't make it about women. Don't make it about feminists. Focus on the injustices to men.

Tedesche · 2017-04-26T03:27:39+00:00

I don't, typically. The movement has such a negative reputation still, I find it far safer to simply bring up men's issues and hope for sympathy. Only once I know I'm dealing with someone who's sympathetic to the issues themselves and moderately well-educated about them will I bring up MRAs, the MRM, or even just the dreaded phrase "men's rights."

rocelot7 · 2017-04-26T09:35:39+00:00

Simple; ask if they support human rights? If they say yes, then ask if men are human? If yes again, ask if they support mens rights? Watch them stumble around trying how to explain that mens rights aren't human rights. Smile smugly.

IronJohnMRA · 2017-04-26T13:16:40+00:00

What would you say to convert people to become pro men's rights?

"Watch the Red Pill movie."

2017-04-27T00:23:32+00:00

Get them to watch TRP. The only way they won't change is if they don't want to change.

definitelyjoking · 2017-04-27T02:02:06+00:00

First off, I agree that you need to stay away from any reference to "Men's Rights" or even making it about ideology at all. Focus on specific issues. If you're talking to a progressive, focus on the disproportionate impact men's issues have on the poor (homelessness or debtors prison for men who lose jobs and can't pay child support) and minority groups (disproptionate enforcement, sentencing disparities, police shootings, etc). A good place to start is comparing the gender sentencing gap to the racial one and pointing out that the gender sentencing gap is actually much larger. The more you can ease people in by framing things as men versus an unfair system instead of you versus feminism the better it will go. If you're going against something everyone "knows" (ie women raping or committing domestic violence), it helps to have your numbers on lock and to be able to name the study and its parameters, but it's less critical for something like men getting screwed in divorce.

A lot of the battle here is knowing what to stay away from. I try to avoid talking about feminism, feminists, or even women as much as possible when trying to get people to see your side. Some things I've repeatedly seen blow up on people trying to discuss this stuff include false rape accusations and comparing circumcision to FGM (I have never seen this last one do anything other than derail otherwise productive conversations). The key with this stuff is that being "right" or "winning" an argument don't do anything if the other person decides you're a shithead.

Finally, your personal anecdote is likely to be powerful in the right circumstances, but I wouldn't lead with it. People can get squicked out by that sort of stuff and sort of shut down their engagement if it comes in too early.

DesireenGreen · 2017-04-25T21:47:05+00:00

Every feminist I know believes women can absolutely be the perpetrators or violence. In fact, the idea that a woman CAN'T is a misogynistic idea. Women are people, and people can be ducked up, abusers, assholes, etc.

If you've met self identified feminists that don't take what happened to you seriously I'm sincerely sorry, they clearly need to be educated.

One thing I would say if you're truly interested in making sure people are aware of this issue is not to come from a men's lib vs. Feminism approach. I'm a feminist who absolutely believes women should NOT automatically get custody, who believes men can and are raped (by women and men alike), and that everyone (or preferably no one) has to sign up for the draft.

They are two sides of the same coin. True equality can not happen without both issues, and they're interlinked.

Women are seen to nurtures, soft, kind, helpful, weak, subserviant, etc. It's what causes a lot of problems, for both men and women.

So my advice is to take a universal approach and really try to see, and then pass on, how these things are intertwined and cause issues for EVERYONE.

atheist4thecause · 2017-04-26T09:39:44+00:00

It depends on the audience. I'd try to find what they care about and go off of that. If your goal, however, is more to show that males can be victims, especially of rape/molestation, then I would point to how definitions exclude males in ways that almost nobody agrees with. For instance, almost everybody agrees that a woman who forces herself onto a male is raping him, but that's not how the law sees it. The law sees it as a sexual assault. You want to avoid getting into a male vs female dichotomy, and when the other person interjects with female victimhood, remind them that you're not talking about females, you're talking about males, and that both can be victims. Also, if I mention I'm an MRA or for men's rights, I'll sometimes get laughed at, but then I use that against them to show how serious the issue really is. If they laugh at you and you can get them to admit there are any male issues, you have them. Don't try to completely convince them, just plant the seed that being for men's rights isn't ridiculous, and they'll come around on their own eventually.

omegaphallic · 2017-04-26T11:08:02+00:00

Convert is an unfortunate choice of word, this isn't a religion, I not looking to convert, I'm looking to educate, feminism converts.

damac_phone · 2017-04-27T02:03:03+00:00

I try to explain to people that society treats men and women differently. It does not treat men well and women poorly, or men better and women worse. It treats them differently. We've long had a feminist movement that fought against things that were unfair to women, the men's rights movement is just fighting against things that are unfair to men. I believe one of the biggest inequalities that men face is that society at large is more than willing to accept that women have problems but that we outright ignore and dismiss whatever problems men have. Homelessness, suicide, substance abuse, violent crime, etc.. Those are all problems that disproportionately affect men. But there is little to no effort made to specifically help men.

UDT22 · 2017-04-26T05:37:58+00:00

Sexual assault is a crime no matter who does it and who is the victim. Sexual assault of small children by an adult should be punished by life imprisonment.

double-happiness · 2017-04-26T12:12:27+00:00

Ask them if they think women should have equal rights. Once they answer in the affirmative, it's an easy shoo-in to say that surely men should too, and the onus then falls on them to argue otherwise.

AntiAbleism · 2017-04-26T20:29:35+00:00

Bring up women destroying innocent men's lives. Also point out contradictions, double standards and hypocrisy.

4man · 2017-04-27T02:09:33+00:00

I don't advocate conversion.

I provide men what information I have, or point them towards sites that have the information they ask for, and let the chips fall where they may. I believe most men can be rational and logical thinkers, they might be distracted by personal bias, currehnt circumstances or a desire for the reality of things to be different but most men find their own answer in response to the gender divide.

When I look at the long game, at some point every man will face the hatred and sexism espoused by feminism and tacitly supported by the majority of women; it is only a matter of time. Some men roll over and let it ride over them, they are not going to respond to any conversion because they want feminists and by inference women to value them. Those that push back will remember there is an alternate philosophy where a sense of value comes from themselves, not others, and they will come to the MRM of their own free will. Those are men that will be committed.

wisty · 2017-04-27T09:43:00+00:00

Men and women both have issues. It's reductionist to claim this is all about men vs women (or even something as simple as "patriarchy").

TheCitizenAct · 2017-04-27T23:01:44+00:00

I wouldn't. I would convert them to be anti-progressivism, and their entire world view would be changed - and men's rights wouldn't be required, because their wouldn't be an opposing force.

Why you shouldn't be a progressive:

*Progressivism has always opposed classical liberalism. The former is social collectivism and technocracy (big government), the latter is individualism and limited governance.

*Progressivism, as a framework for social collectivists, has always advocated identity politics. It informed National Socialism's policies on eugenics in the 1930s; it determined non-white people were 'uneducated', 'imbecilic' and 'unfit' (it sterilised them). The 20s weren't full of British and American nationalists calling for 'fascism', they were full of progressives, men like H.G. Wells, calling for 'liberal fascism.'

*Like their counterparts from the 1920s, and National Socialism, the modern progressive has another identity in their cross hairs - white men. The National Socialists hated the Jews, the progressives hate white men. They deem them 'genetically inferior' and 'predisposed to warfare' thus in need of 'diversification'. It's dystopian in the extreme, yet owed to the decimation of the political spectrum and the fact western civilisation is a one-ideology civilisation, we all treat it like it's normal. It's not - it's racial profiling, it's lurid.

*Progressivism holds no principles. It's fundamentally inconsistent. It claims to oppose racism, sexism, homophobia and xenophobia, but it doesn't - these groups are merely a means to an end. Its opposition to racism will stop at the border of white victims and non-white perpetrators, its opposition to homophobia will stop at the border of fawning over a communist tyrant (Castro), its opposition to xenophobia will stop at the border of hating western nation-states, its opposition to sexism stops at the border of male victims and female perpetrators and its advocacy of women's rights stops at the border of Islam.

*Progressivism wants to exploit identity to draw a dividing line down the middle of society between nationalists and globalists. As per Marxism, the ultimate end goal is global government and the destruction of the nation-state paradigm - identity is merely its conduit for amassing support for this objective.

*It was the second-wave feminists who advocated the notion 'white men are the new bourgeoisie'. They deemed that anyone who wasn't white, heterosexual and male was a natural ally. The entire second-wave feminism movement was spearheaded by a Communist (Betty Friedan). Engels was writing about the male bourgeoisie as 'the oppressor' in the late 19th century.

*The last 50 years are best characterised by progressivism's desire to erode social power in favour of state power. It legislates our speech ('hate crimes'), our charitable contributions ('foreign aid'), how we should raise our children (in Scotland, this is the named person policy), how we should associate with people (The Equality Act), who we should associate with ('diversity'), what jobs we can apply for (positive discrimination) and what we're allowed to put in our bodies (90% tax on cigarettes, sugar taxes, etc.).

None of this can be divorced from political allegiance, because the raison d'être of progressivism is the exploitation of identity to further the only cause it cares about: global government.

Title	What would you say to convert people to become pro men's rights?
Author	gayguyredditor
Upvotes	43
Comments	58
Date	April 25, 2017 6:31 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/67ihjs/what_would_you_say_to_convert_people_to_become/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/what-would-you-say-to-convert-people-to-become-pro.924234 https://theredarchive.com/post/924234

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