A Woman's Ability to Reduce Rape Probability (Help:Argument)

LockNuts · 2016-01-31T03:15:50+00:00

You're right, but it doesn't matter. The women replying will always accuse you of victim blaming.

That you're specifically not victim blaming is not relevant to the replies you will receive.

Yes, people should take precautions to reduce their risk of being victims of crimes. Lack of these precautions in no way shifts the blame from the perpetrator to the victim.

This is an amazingly uncontroversial statement.

What do you mean you didn't lock your doors? Of course you were burglarized.

What do you mean you didn't lock up your bike? Of course it was stolen.

What do you mean you were carrying around large sums of cash and flashing it around? Of course you were mugged.

Until you include rape in the list. Then you're a monster.

Except for 'What do you mean you were sent to prison? Of course you were raped.'

That's hilarious.

iainmf · 2016-01-31T06:12:23+00:00

Firstly, you are not going to change those peoples minds, but other people reading the thread may be more receptive and you've done a good job that will help convince them. In fact, getting into these debates online is often about spreading information to onlookers rather than convincing the debaters.

Second, a good program to teach young women to take precautions works. Sexual assault prevention program cuts risk of rape nearly 50%, study says. Although that program is drenched in feminist dogma and teaches that all men are potential rapists, it's clear that when young women change their behavior they are safer.

Third, giving rape victims a strategy and methods to feel safe is a good thing.

Forth, rape is terrible and we should should consider every option for reducing rapes.

Rikvidr · 2016-01-31T03:00:10+00:00

You're not going to win that argument. You're being ganged up on by women, and you appear to be the only male poster. Furthermore, they're using feminist buzzwords. They're too entrenched in feminsm to listen to anything you have to say.

bertreapot · 2016-01-31T03:44:54+00:00

One thing feminists also forget is that actual rapists aren't a part of these conversations. They are not taking consent courses, they are not attending take back the night rallies, they're not getting into debates with feminists on the internet. An actual rapist will take advantage of a drunk or inebriated girl if given the opportunity. Hence why it is important to teach women preventative measures.

They would rather just yell at people like you and call you a rape enabler. We all know that couldn't be further from the truth. You really can't win an argument with feminists, they're stuck in their own little bubble, and anyone who thinks otherwise is pro-rape in their minds. You're better off just not even getting into conversations with these people. Maybe after a few years of everyone avoiding feminists cause they are nuts, they will get the hint.

aussietoads · 2016-01-31T03:53:21+00:00

Ask any able bodied adult this question. 'If you don't think you are worth the effort to learn how to avoid danger or defend yourself, why should anyone else think you are worthy enough to protect and defend.?'

MyAfricanChild · 2016-01-31T06:20:05+00:00

You could reduce many of these arguments to prudential principles, saying it is prudent that one act in such a way that they do not receive physical harm. It is known by the agent, and also voluntary that they did so-and-so which was not the prudential choice and it resulted badly for them, then they're blameworthy (they could still be blameworthy regardless of the outcome some may say). However if someone did act prudently and still came to a bad fate then they would be blameless. (simply the difference between locking your doors and not locking your doors)

To blame someone for their actions (which is termed victim blaming) is not to say that the deserts of the perpetrator ought to be reduced since the victim for 'provoked' him doing so-and-so actions. Often provoking an altercation in normal circumstances can lessen the degree of punishment for one's actions since it was not entirely voluntary, of willful.

To blame someone for their actions in this sense is not to say that they provoked the action in a moral sense, it's to say that they failed as a prudential agent. Their failing is that they did not act in ways which would satisfy their prudential principle - "keeping themself safe". To point out what they are wearing, or the way they are acting or even their location are factors which did not ensure their safety, and to say that they should not wear such things is to give prudential recommendations for the future. This could be expanded by talking about the voluntariness of their actions and to the degree they have control of outcomes, and also what we would do to inform people of the dangers which they must avoid.

Ultimate_Failure · 2016-01-31T07:05:03+00:00

I didn't read it, but it's a pretty tired old argument, so I don't need to.

Ask them if it is "victim blaming" when a lifeguard advises swimmers to stay out of shark-infested waters. Of course you have every right to swim there and the mean, nasty sharks are evil if they bite you; the government should train sharks not to bite you.

But when it happens anyway, righteous indignation is not of much comfort to shark attack victims.

Edit: And in case there's any confusion about my analogy: The sharks are rapists, not men.

Allblacksworldchamps · 2016-01-31T12:18:04+00:00

Stay away from the clothes analogy, its the first one they jump to, and rape (of the stanger variety, which is discussed in the studies from the 80's) is a crime of oppertunity, the studies show this to be no more likely in any type of clothes. The feminist myth is that people (men) still believe that clothes provoke rape. If you mention this most people will assume you crawled out from under a rock. What we do find (and feminists ignore in an attempt to demonise men) is a very high corrolation between rape of all types and alcohol, and this is where the association is between rape and a style of clothing.

What did get me is the statement "It's not my responsibility to stop someone violating me. period."

Well whos is it then?

The Justicar recently did a video on this re can we sue police for not preventing crime?

If you call the police (assuming you can get to the phone), the moment someone breaks into your house, they will not get there for 5-10 min, for someone living next door. It is your responsibility to look after yourself till they arive, often after the crime has finished.

Even if they take the call you will be on a priority list, and depending where units are they will not always be in a rush, since the event will usually be over, and they risk accidents to get there. Every farmer would recognise this.

I always like to think of your responsibility vs perps responsibility as seperate. So a perp may be 100% responsible (short of psychosis or mania) but you may also be 90% responsible if you walk in to a gang pad and pass out, but only 10% if you open your door at home. This way it does not reduce one parties responsibility to say the other could have looked after themselves, nor does it touch on rights (where some argue you only have rights you can enforce, ie the right to go to court, but not the right to be safe).

But I would never ever explain it like this to a feminist about a sexual crime. (violent assualt, maybe?)

Asher-D · 2016-01-31T12:21:27+00:00

I wish people could just understand that saying women can reduce their rape probability by doing or not doing certain things isn't blaming them.

TracyMorganFreeman · 2016-01-31T22:25:57+00:00

You are not responsible for becoming a victim, but as an adult you are responsible for managing the risks of becoming a victim.

Title	A Woman's Ability to Reduce Rape Probability (Help:Argument)
Author	Black--Snow
Upvotes	5
Comments	14
Date	January 31, 2016 2:51 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/43hcyu/a_womans_ability_to_reduce_rape_probability/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/a-womans-ability-to-reduce-rape-probability.957318 https://theredarchive.com/post/957318

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