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Why the UK should ditch male and female toilets for 'gender-neutral' loos.

TR6Cool

December 14, 2015
23 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/why-the-uk-should-ditch-male-and-female-toilets-for-gender-neutr/
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Post Information
Title Why the UK should ditch male and female toilets for 'gender-neutral' loos.
Author

TR6Cool

Upvotes 23
Comments 55
Date December 14, 2015 2:48 PM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3wsgu7/why_the_uk_should_ditch_male_and_female_toilets/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-the-uk-should-ditch-male-and-female-toilets.965202
https://theredarchive.com/post/965202
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Comments

[–]DavidByron2 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I always figured it was women that were against them because men have cooties - in their minds. Like it is somehow dirty or dangerous or creepy to use a toilet a man has used. All because of the sexual demonization of men.

“I have seen harassment of women raised as a concern"

They might push for two types of toilet, one that is gender neutral and another that is woman-only. Of course that would be illegal in many countries but that sort of bullshit usually manages to happen anyway.

[–]jak_22 11 points12 points13 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Like it is somehow dirty (...) to use a toilet a man has used.

Go and ask a janitor, or any other human being who has to clean toilets as part of his/her job, about the cleanliness of the ladies' rooms compared to the cleanliness of the mens' rooms.

You are in for a nasty surprise.

[–]DavidByron2 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No, i know that. I make a point of asking people that question and all but a couple have said what you said. i didn't mean "dirty" meaning messy or needing cleaning. I mean dirty as in sexually deviant.

[–]jak_22 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sorry, I misunderstood you.

[–]Antrophis 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I have cleaned some vile ladies washrooms. They had stuff like used tampons stuck to the wall.

[–]Mencite 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"She thinks that we should be moving to a “four toilet set up” – women, men, gender neutral and disabled: “Giving people choice is always a good thing, along with giving women the ability to have more privacy if they wish to be away from men."

may Trans people should have respect for men if they want respect from men.

[–]GenesisRunner 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Didn't read the article, but this would easily open the door to continuous claims [by women] of harassment and assault. The feminists/progressives/liberals have run out of ways to demonize men and set them up for persecution, so this is the next step in the evolution of their strategy against men.

[–]Stephen_Morgan 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, it wouldn't last five minutes before the feminists went ape-shit on all fours.

[–]Lethn 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is entirely true, if we thought that the rape accusations now were ridiculous and bad before it would get ten times worse if we had shared toilets and I personally wouldn't feel comfortable going anywhere in public for long if I had to use the toilets there.

Bad enough the way people ruin them, now I have the potential to get accused of sexual harassment too just by being in the vicinity of them while they take a dump or piss? Fuck that!

[–]Numericaly7 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And here I already avoided public bathrooms.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's what I was thinking, honestly. And it's not like you can film in public restrooms in most places.

[–]Niketi 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Tl;dr is it's about trans bathroom problems.

I really don't think most men give a shit. Women tend to be the ones overly protective of their bathrooms, and "uncomfortable" with trans women going in there. We're all used to standing shoulder to shoulder and pissing into a trough. The arrangement in the men's already sacrifices comfort for efficiency. That efficiency is all I think most men care about. If we have to share with women, the urinals will go and the whole business will end up taking forever.

[–]bloodshot_eyes 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Women tend to be the ones overly protective of their bathrooms

And as soon as the men's bathroom becomes "theirs" as well, you'll have them demanding primacy of service.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't want our bathrooms to smell like a sushi restaurant either.

[–]Mencite 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What would you want to have to piss with women coming in watching you??

[–]Mahza 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I was a janitor for a few years at a gas station back in high school and I can say that I will never share a bathroom with a woman. They are so fucking nasty its down right disgusting. Btw I quit that job and went to shoveling shit on a farm, was much happier.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

lol damn that's saying something

[–]butyoulikedit 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago* (15 children) | Copy Link

As someone with shy bladder - can I just have my own private, one person bathroom with a real door and a lock?

We're accommodating almost everything these days, how about us paruresis sufferers with a damn bathroom we can use :( Its a real problem that ruins a lot of lives.

The founder of the paruresis organization actually spoke out against that Rob Lowe Direct tv commercial where he dressed up like a dork and called himself socially awkward Rob Lowe and made fun of people for not being able to pee in public bathrooms with others around. This is literally a life ruining condition

There was a thread about it on reddit and everyone pretty much unanimously called the guy (head of the paruresis foundation) a loser and laughed at him. Wish we had a pretty woman as the face of the organization.

[–]Stephen_Morgan 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I was once in a building where there were such toilets, but they were still segregated. Also, the women got two while the men got one.

[–]SporkTornado 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

All single occupancy bathrooms should be gender neutral. If you are never going to have more than one person in there at a time. Then what's the point of gender segregating them.

[–]butyoulikedit 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I won't lie. Many times Ive gone to the woman's single person bathroom in gas stations when there is a line for the men's. People look, I dont care, no ones in there.

Just the pressure of a line of people waiting outside the door is enough to make me unable to go

Agreed, the segregation of single person locking bathrooms makes no sense at all. Ive had weird looks coming OUT of the bathroom after and woman waiting in line for it.

[–]Jonesey505 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah if it's a single person bathroom, I'll use the womens or mens, no problem. In fact my favourite are the Disableds, way more spacious than other bathrooms.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

Have you tried using urinals while drunk? Having to use restrooms at bars was a huge part of how I stopped being pee shy. That and figuring out the trick of counting/reading elements of the wall in front of me (tiles, number of different colors, irregularities in the paint/plaster, letters if there was a poster...sometimes counting how many times each letter appears in a sentence). Which I still do.

I used to have some extremely painful experiences before I got over bladder shyness, especially at airports. Even when it felt like my kidneys/bladder might explode, I just couldn't go, often even in a stall if there were people waiting outside.

Now I can use a trough urinal at a gay bar that is literally in the line of sight of the front door, no problem—even when I'm completely sober. (Funnily enough I always had quite the exhibitionist streak even when I was at my most bladder shy.)

[–]butyoulikedit 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Honestly, I dont even go to bars. I never really have. The problem started/got bad enough to interfere around 22, Im 30 now. Ive pretty much lost all of my friends through just declining every invitation, lost touch a long time ago.

I know a couple old friends that had the same issue. One opened up a little bit one night about it when it was me and him (he brought it up) and said how he just has to get totally drunk to pee and it all made sense. He was always the first one drunk anywhere we went. A lot of the time he was drunk before I'd even pick him up.

Ive tried lots of tricks and honestly havent had any success. I was going to therapy and she seemed really confused about the whole thing. When I bring up the condition by the term "paruresis" the doctors Ive been to haven't heard of it. i have to say "shy bladder" - which I think sounds cute and really minimizes a horrible problem

I know I shouldn't have gave up but it ruined so many events for me. Skiing, parties, ability to do things with ex gf, work. Ive had so many bladder infections from holding it in for too long. One time I had a 'prostate infection' - only thing the Dr came up with even though the antibiotics did nothing. Basically I couldnt empty my bladder for about 8 months, it wouldn't go away. Felt like I needed to pee, constantly. Little tiny pees over and over. Sometimes every 10 minutes. Id feel like I was bursting then a few drops. It was living hell and killed my spirit. Now Im so afraid for that to happen again that I avoid any situations which may make me hold it

Im really glad to hear you overcame it. I know success stories are out there. Its so frustrating because I dont think a lot of people understand or really take it seriously.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Ouch. Well I hope you find something that works. Has the only therapist you've seen been female?

[–]butyoulikedit 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah Ive only seen one therapist. I really liked talking to her about other issues (aside from the shy bladder). She was a great listener and had some really amazing recall of things we discussed 2 weeks prior, while not taking a single note. Unfortunately she left to go back to teaching at a college

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I hope you never have to use a toilet in china, where in many places they save cost by not including a door

[–]butyoulikedit 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Seems they have the same policy at the only few bars Ive ever been to !

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]butyoulikedit 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I think you just told me to become a sexual predator lol

I totally understand your sentiment though, just saying fuck it and being silly and not giving a shit. I wish it were that easy. Im a pretty confident guy otherwise, but fuck me that damn "pelvic floor muscle" is a real son of a bitch

Ive heard of guys having succes with "breathe holding", basically holding your breathe until you feel youre going to pass out and the increased Co2 is supposed to make your body relax and start peeing automatically. I can never get past the feeling that Im gonna pass out and have to breathe before it ever "works"

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]butyoulikedit 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I dont know how I missed the word "imagined" lol. I honestly didnt even notice it

It can lead to misunderstandings otherwise. And they don't listen to your reasonable explanation.

:D

I think youre right, most people have experienced it to some degree. My dad told me about a times he can remember being in a crowded bathroom and couldnt start right away, my one friend told me how he has to use stalls sometimes, stuff like that.

Then theres stuff you may see on reddit or similar conversations where things like "pee into the water as hard as possible to establish dominance" - people say it jokingly, but I think its obvious that the ability to pee in any situation with other men around is seen as part of being manly. Ive seen a lot of really insensitive shit written about the issue when ti comes up randomly in threads, I think a lot of the guys are just insecure themselves, I cant think of any other reason to pretend it matters as far as your manhood and brag about peeing like a firehose in any situation, meanwhile others are discussing a life altering issue

[–]coke501 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Couldn't be bothered to read but may I ask: How do they imagine gender-neutral loos? With or without urinals? I can't imagine with because it won't be long before someone feels uncomfortable. And I think that without is a massive waste of space.

[–]Stephen_Morgan 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

We need to reintroduce women's urinals. Or, get them to use the she-wee.

[–]coke501 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The what?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's basically a funnel.

http://www.espaces.ca/var/upload/ckeditor/images/shewee_pink(1).jpg

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I've only ever used a couple of gender neutral bathrooms but none of them had urinals. All of them were in bars so it wasn't a big deal but I couldn't imagine it at any place where there's going to be a large crowd, no urinals is just a huge waste of space. The best idea I can come up with is a separate room in the bathroom with a bunch of urinals. Sinks up front, bunch of stalls down one side and a room with urinals on the other.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It's mostly women I'm sure. A woman goes into the Men's restroom? No big deal. Man in the woman's restroom? He's probably going to be talking to the police.

[–]Mencite 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

"She thinks that we should be moving to a “four toilet set up” – women, men, gender neutral and disabled: “Giving people choice is always a good thing, along with giving women the ability to have more privacy if they wish to be away from men."

Maybe trans people should have respect for men if they want respect from men.

[–]v573v 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Over 64,000,000 people are affected - thousands of businesses - billions of dollars - laws and building codes reworked - all for the benefit of less than 200,000 people.

Maybe if their lives depended on it I'd be more inclined.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Wow way to dismiss a handful of the population just because of the tremendous cost and inconvenience imposed on the majority.

[–]v573v 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The money can be far better spent on something else.

Comfort and discomfort are luxury items.

Homeless people are freezing to death in the street and you want to spend money to alleviate somebody's toilet anxiety? People with serious mental illness are not able to afford care and you want to retrofit a toilet so that somebody might feel better about their bathroom options.

As I said - life threatening - you got my attention but to make somebody feel better? No. Leave it up to the private sector to facilitate their customers as they see fit.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You did realize that was sarcasm right?

[–]v573v 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Sorry, but with that article as the topic you can't just be sarcastic without telling people you're being sarcastic. ;)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I thought I was being obvious with the "Handful of people" and "Tremendous cost and inconvenience" bits but sarcasm doesn't travel well on the internet.

[–]territtuk 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Fuck that, have you seen the ques of woman waiting for the toilets at events!

[–]mwobuddy 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Its because sex organs are disgusting, sexuality is digusting, and genders can't mix.

[–]rg57 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Facilities should be labeled based on what anatomy they are for, not on who is expected to use them.

  • urinals
  • toilets
  • wheelchair access
  • stall with convenient hole to the next stall (I've decided I'm serious about this, not joking)

What amazes me is that someone is actually putting in an article something that previously I had only seen in comments (my own).

Am I an influencer? Gosh.

[–]SlimThugga 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

td;dr: because trans people

[–]jimmywiddle 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Can we use archive when linking to this wanky newspaper ? They have deliberately disabled comments on their pages to stop people disagreeing with them.

I want their views to suffer and their advertising revenue to sink as a result of their censorship.

Using an archive link instead deprives them of money.

[–]SangEntar 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This just came up at a team meeting and I work in adult social care. All of the women were against it and the few men there didn't really care either way.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"I'm not disabled but I identify as disabled".

How would that go?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Completely unrelated to the article, but on the topic of bathrooms:

Please stop writing on the damn walls

[–]bufedad -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm fine with this. This actually solves a whole mess of gender related issues when it comes to trans individuals.

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