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"It doesn't promote equality, so it nothing to do with feminism"

unpicked-username

November 17, 2015
116 upvotes
/r/MensRights
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Post Information
Title "It doesn't promote equality, so it nothing to do with feminism"
Author

unpicked-username

Upvotes 116
Comments 25
Date November 17, 2015 6:04 PM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3t6nuw/it_doesnt_promote_equality_so_it_nothing_to_do/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/it-doesnt-promote-equality-so-it-nothing-to-do.967012
https://theredarchive.com/post/967012
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Comments

[–]XenonCeilingFan 21 points22 points23 points 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Duluth.

That's it, that's all you need to tell them.

[–]TRPThrowRug2 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, "Duluth model literally has patriarchy" written all over it. And it's legally one of the most popular ways for cities to judge domestic violence."

[–]CK_America 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

??? What's the story about Duluth?

[–]Sanguifer 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Everything is better when explained by Karen.

Short version: Duluth model of aggression is a feminist-inspired domestic violence model that defines men into primary aggressors and women into primary victims from the get-go. The Duluth model shape many police policies in DV responses - got a DV call, arrive on scene, check who has sustained more injuries, who looks more fearful or upset, who is bigger/stronger/more aggressive/more capable of doing damage, after applying all the preconceptions and biases arrest the "primary aggressor", i.e. 9 out of 10 calls the man. Even if he was the one calling for help. Because patriarchy.

[–]Dullahan3470 -4 points-3 points-2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

To be honest, I think it's a pretty logical approach for the police to take. You don't know for sure who is the aggressor and who isn't, so it makes sense to separate the two. Maybe in practice it's a bit biased but that comes down to the individual cops. Honestly, in the accounts of people I've known who have been involved in a DV situation, the police were pretty good about determining who the aggressor was and not just assuming it was the man. But that's purely second hand anecdotal.

I think the "more aggressive/more capable of doing damage bit" is a bit silly though. If you're detaining one and leaving the other at home, it doesn't matter who you take. May as well flip a coin because atleast then it would be fair. Aggressiveness could be evidence of who initiated, so in a he said she said scenario it could indicate who may be lying, but I'm not sure what else they could do here other than make their best judgement.

[–]garglemesh42 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

When you're male and being beaten by a woman, if you call the police for help, there's a pretty good chance that they'll arrest you, not her, just because as a man you're almost certainly going to be bigger and stronger.

Have you seen any of those domestic violence experiment videos? The ones where when a man pretend-beats-up his girlfriend, then they gender swap? The man is invariably interrupted by someone. When a man is being beaten by a woman, people usually don't interrupt. Some will even laugh, or ask what he did to deserve it.

You see violence perpetrated by men and women treated this way all the time in the news, in cop shows, in sitcoms ...

There's a lot of reasons men are afraid to ask for help. The problem is that if men don't ask for help, and are automatically labeled the perpetrator when they do, that skews the numbers in reports on domestic violence, making it appear to be a gendered issue. Those statistics are then used to further justify a gender-based, anti-male approach to domestic violence, which just makes things even worse.

[–]Dullahan3470 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No, the police are actually pretty even handed about this. Atleast in my area. I know women who were arrested and charged for assault for such things. I've even talked to cops about it and asked them how they deal with it.

The general public is very different from the police, who are used to dealing with this shit and understand that women can and often are aggressors.

Stop spewing rhetoric at me. Also I can't help but think the "Men are too afraid to report it!" argument is the exact same as the "Women are too afraid to report rape" argument that people who believe in the 1in4 stats and shit spout. You can't prove that, it just agrees with your feels.

[–]garglemesh42 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well. There was a study a while back that showed men are much more likely to be arrested or referred to batterer's programs when calling for help than women were. I'll have to see if I can find it again.

[–]XenonCeilingFan 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The "Duluth Model" is the reason why men are arrested no matter what in domestic violence situations.

[–]Celda 16 points17 points18 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

No, what they meant is that feminism has nothing to do with men being arrested for being a victim of domestic violence.

Of course, that claim is still false (Duluth Model).

[–]Korinthe 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thats how I read it too.

The person was saying that its not feminisms goal to automatically assume the man is the baddy.

I know that in the real world, feminism has had the opposite effect from the sentiment shared here.

I kinda like it actually, maybe if there were more people who view equality as real equality in the feminist camp, things would be heading in the right direction.

[–]Trinity3 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No, they're just redefining it when it's attacked. Nice to see the No true Scotsman fallacy making its rounds again.

[–]DaVincitheReptile -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Alright, it does appear that it does have something to do with feminism (i.e. feminists in government pushed the model). I glanced at the wikipedia article and upon reading the first two names mentioned and CNTRL+F'ing "femini", there were no results on either person's wiki page.

Are they feminists? Seems like it would have the word somewhere in the article if they were...

[–]garglemesh42 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

You have to understand that Wikipedia has a very strong pro-feminism bias. Try reading the articles associated with men's rights sometime. Especially look at the talk pages. Any time people try to correct that page to be less biased they get their edits reverted.

[–]DaVincitheReptile 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Alright thanks for the info. I sorta wish, even though it was only two of them, that my previous comment were not downvoted. I'm just trying to remain somewhat objective...

Wouldn't feminists, though, want those names to be associated with feminism?

[–]garglemesh42 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I wasn't one of the down-voters.

The fact that you're asking questions about this is good. Asking for sources is good.

Also, if you look at the talk page for the article, you'll see that it is within the scope of WikiProject Feminism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of feminism on Wikipedia.

Also, from the current version of the page:

"As of 2006, the Duluth Model is the most common batterer intervention program used in the United States.[2] It is based in feminist theory positing that "domestic violence is the result of patriarchal ideology in which men are encouraged and expected to control their partners".[2]"

It's in the current version of the page, but here's a link to that specific revision in case someone changes it out from under us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Duluth_model&oldid=684879714

[–]DaVincitheReptile 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks, you rule for doing that.

[–]dagthegnome 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Then maybe feminists should help us do something about it rather than pour millions of lobbying dollars into encouraging law enforcement and legislators to ignore the issue.

[–]kaliwraith 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"So you're saying feminists don't fight against equality?"

http://ncfm.org/2012/06/news/domestic-abuse-violence/the-national-coalition-for-women-blasts-efforts-to-include-sensible-and-gender-inclusive-provisions-in-legislation-to-reauthorize-the-violence-against-women-act/

[–]GenderNeutralLanguag 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yea, but IF feminism really was about equality, then the problematic legal situation of domestic violence victims being arrested because "penis" WOULD be a MAJOR feminist issue.

Having the police properly identify domestic abusers and arrest them would be supportive of equality, saying your movement has nothing to do with supporting equality means it doesn't promote equality.

Amazing how bad at logic some feminists are.

[–]chocoboat 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yet another trick that feminism has learned from organized religion. "I don't discriminate again gay people because I'm Christian, it's because what they do isn't natural!" "Terrorist attacks have nothing to do with Islam, those murderers are No True Muslims!"

[–]TrulyStupidNab 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The United States is the land of the free. The high incarceration rate of Americans have nothing to do with America, because putting Americans in prison has nothing to do with freedom.

[–]GTCtry_another 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Unicornism is solely about summoning unicorns to this dimension. Sure, millions of babies have been sacrificed for rituals practiced by mainstream followers of Unicornism after we found those ancient scrolls that claimed that this was the way to summon unicorns—but I don't see any unicorns! So clearly that has nothing to do with my religion, which, again, by definition, is solely about manifesting unicorns on the earthly plane. Anything that doesn't cause unicorns to exist in our common reality has nothing to do with my religion."

[–]unpicked-username[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well the moderator of that subreddit removed the top comment.

[–]CaptainNeeMoNoy 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Right that's why the fucking Duluth model was put in place by feminists, and why they insist that DV is a women's issue even though men suffer from it at equal rates and women are the overwhelming majority perpetrators of "one-way" violence. These feminists are more transparent than a freshly cleaned window

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