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Pedo hysteria: professional photographer accused of taking pictures of children, by person who photographed HIM. 6 cops. Police demand phone pictures. Wife thinks something horrible happened.

re_dditt_er

October 18, 2015
436 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.someecards.com/news/so-that-happened/david-updike-open-letter-cambridge/
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Title Pedo hysteria: professional photographer accused of taking pictures of children, by person who photographed HIM. 6 cops. Police demand phone pictures. Wife thinks something horrible happened.
Author

re_dditt_er

Upvotes 436
Comments 67
Date October 18, 2015 7:41 AM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3p7ezh/pedo_hysteria_professional_photographer_accused/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/pedo-hysteria-professional-photographer-accused-of.969193
https://theredarchive.com/post/969193

Comments

[–]fullhalf 115 points116 points117 points 10 years ago (68 children) | Copy Link

why do cops have the right to interrogate someone for taking photos? even if he was taking photos of children, that's not illegal. is a man not even fucking allowed to take photos in crowded places anymore? what the fuck? all these stupid fucking chilling effects on things men do.

[–]ARedthorn 47 points48 points49 points 10 years ago (45 children) | Copy Link

Couple key points on legal jargon.

In the US, cops can detain someone on reasonable suspicion of a crime, in order to investigate that crime.

They can't arrest you unless that investigation upgrades them from "reasonable suspicion" to "probable cause."

Reasonable can be fuzzy here, but having received a report of a crime- even a report of someone matching your description having done something that might be a crime- suffices.

Detain can also be fuzzy... Since the qualifying trait of an arrest is whether you're allowed to leave or not, some argue that it's impossible to know the difference between detention and arrest until you try to walk away and they stop you...

But detention is, again, only for finding evidence of a crime, and quickly. Asking questions to make a quick determination as to whether a crime occurred, and whether the person being detained either did it, or is a witness definitely suffice.

So, as long as they ask the guy to see his phone, and he complies... It's a legal detention. As long as he feels like he could've walked away, it's a detention. As long as they're asking questions, it's a detention. All of the above are legal.

If they take his phone... If they stop him from leaving (or technically, make him reasonably feel like they would stop him from leaving)... If they accuse him of anything... They need probable cause.

6 cops seems like overkill to me, here... But other than that, I see nothing wrong, legally, with their response.

The paranoid idiot who reported him on the other hand...

[–]fullhalf 32 points33 points34 points 10 years ago (40 children) | Copy Link

but taking photos of children is not a crime. so how can they question him about it?

[–]prodiver 15 points16 points17 points 10 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

The police can ask you any questions they want. The real question is when you are you required to answer them.

The man should have refused to answer any questions and walked away.

[–]u8eR 17 points18 points19 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Or do what this man did and just say hey this woman is stupid and here's why and then go on with your merry life.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The woman was a pervert. They should search her computer for CP. "A thief believes everyone steals."

Personally I'm suspicious of everyone who buys into pedo panic. They're definitely all a little repressed; most adults are attracted to 16-year olds and younger. I'm kinda the freak here, thank god, since I rarely go for anyone under 30 and didn't even have crushes my age before I was in college, nor was I sexually active or interested in experimenting. Like I said—I'm a freak, and it's to my benefit in this society even though I'm also gay. I'm able to be more objective about what the research says regarding the average person's tastes (since they are not my own), and what it strongly suggests is that pedo panic is often projection. (Look up Pedophile OCD.)

[–]matthew_lane 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You are never required to hand over a phone or camera for the police to check the contents of, without a warrant for that data.

[+]fullhalf -8 points-7 points-6 points 10 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

next time a cop asks you a question, try walking away and raising suspicion. see how they deal with it. people who havent committed crimes aren't going to cause trouble for themselves by escalating a situation that would go away soon. it's so easy to sit at home and say you'll do this or that.

[–]prodiver 18 points19 points20 points 10 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

I have done it, it's easy.

Ask, "Am I being detained?"

99% of the time they will not answer the question, since they can't legally say "yes," but they still want you to answer their questions.

If they don't give a clear "yes" say, "You're not telling me I'm detained, so I'm ending this conversation and walking away. If I am being detained just let me know and I'll be happy to comply."

Then walk away. It's that simple.

[–]speedisavirus 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. Being a cock to a cop ends like this.

https://youtu.be/dwp2pPkXUac

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

IANAL, but I think model releases are only needed if the pictures will be used for commercial purposes.

[–]u8eR 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You do not need release forms from someone who is in public. If he was photographing someone in a private location, you'd have a point.

[–]headhot 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not in the US. If your in public you can be photographed or video recorded.

Even if you were right, which you aren't, and the photographer took a picture and made money off the subjects image with out a license, that would be a civil matter and the police would not be involved.

[–]geniice 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Model release is mostly to do with how the photo can be used. Mostly relates to using the photos in a way that suggests the person does something or holds an opinion that they don't.

[–]matthew_lane 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

model release forms are for that very reason.

No it's not. A model release form is a legal indemnification form that states one has the legal rights to profit from images. It has nothing to do with taking or storing images.

[+]FluffyBallofHate -8 points-7 points-6 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

This guy sounds like an /r/protectandserve apologist to me. Good luck getting a real answer that doesn't completely absolve the police from wrongdoing.

[+]kellast -16 points-15 points-14 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

What if the police do anything even if it's legal you just shout "fuck the police". This guy sounds like one of those BLM apologists, because your a good boy dat dindu nuffin

[–]ScienceLivesInsideMe 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

And you sound like a racist

[+]not---a---bot -9 points-8 points-7 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

But stalking and harassment is a crime. Depending on the manner of which the pictures were taken, he could easily be charged with criminal harassment.

[–]AmericanGeezus 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He didnt take any pictures that day..

[–]headhot 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Taking picture in public isn't a crime. They have nothing to detain him on and he has no obligation what so ever of consenting to a search of his camera or anything else.

[–]matthew_lane 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

not with out a warrant specifically for those digital devices.

[–]speakingofsegues 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

In theory this is what is supposed to happen. In practice, on the other hand...

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He shouldn't have agreed to let them see his phone even if he had nothing to hide. Cops love breaking all property they can get their hands (or K-9 unit paws) on. Including property with a heartbeat.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (21 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]fullhalf 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

ok in what state can't you photograph children in public?

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]fullhalf 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

i would be very surprised if such a law existed in any state and you sound like you are full of shit. so i'm really not surprised at all by your response.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Whoa. Simma' down naw

[–]heimdahl81 -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

Illinois has a two party consent law for photos and recordings. There is a stipulation for public spaces not having a "reasonable expectation of pricacy" but the state is continually butting heads against constitutional law regarding privacy and wiretapping laws.

[–]RunawayGrain 14 points15 points16 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

"By the powers vested in me by the uneducated masses I find you ... a pedophile!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCywGhHQMEw

[–]WolfeBane84 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I...kinda wanna see more of this. Is this a show or was this a one off?

[–]RunawayGrain 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Monkey Dust. It's a show, but it's a pretty fucked up one.

[–]SCROTAL-SACK 37 points38 points39 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

How many times have we seen of some hysterical mombie bitch reporting a street photographer or just a guy taking a picture to the police, only for it to turn out to be totally innocent? I don't even get why a genuine pedo would be out taking pictures of kids in a park. He'd get as much material googling for stock photos of kids running around the place being their annoying selves. Fuck sake, when was the last time one of these guys turned out to be an actual pervert?

And while we're at it, when was the last time a narcissistic selfie taking, or student wanna be photographing woman was apprehended by the police? Can't think of a single one. Women aren't ever perverts are they...

[–]loddfavne 13 points14 points15 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And while we're at it, when was the last time a narcissistic selfie taking, or student wanna be photographing woman was apprehended by the police? Can't think of a single one. Women aren't ever perverts are they...

I usually say that all people lie. Watch what people say, not what they do. There are laws being used against perverts. And, there's a pattern on which gender these laws are applied on. Society has not a problem judging men more than they do women. But, when you say that these laws are sexist, suddenly society has a problem with that.

[–]geniice 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I don't even get why a genuine pedo would be out taking pictures of kids in a park. He'd get as much material googling for stock photos of kids running around the place being their annoying selves.

Probably the same reason people go out and take upskirt pics when there is an internet full of porn.

Fuck sake, when was the last time one of these guys turned out to be an actual pervert?

Hard to say since even if they were it wouldn't generaly be illegal for them to take photos and thus there wouldn't be much to report. The odd case does pop up though:

http://q13fox.com/2013/06/07/parents-tackle-pedophile-taking-pictures-of-little-kids-in-dressing-rooms/

[–]tinyOnion 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's in an area where you have a reasonable expectation of privacy. Namely the dressing room. That's illegal.

The for fucks sake was more aimed at men taking pictures in public Parks.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Probably the same reason people go out and take upskirt pics when there is an internet full of porn.

Most of the time they try to do it without being noticed don't they?

[–]Cypher_Aod 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Zimbabwean?

[–]matthew_lane 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Have you ever noticed that the people people worry about most is people with big cameras..... The one type of camera you WOULD NOT use if you were a creeper.

Creepers of all stripes use smart phone cameras & hidden pin hole cameras. The one type of camera they don't use is an obvious camera.

And yet those are constantly the people that are stopped and harassed.

[–]NibblyPig 12 points13 points14 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I prefer to call it the term Brass Eye used in 2001 of Paedogeddon

[–]Vietnom 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for sharing this. Had never heard of Brass Eye before. It's pretty great.

[–]NibblyPig 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

That episode was incredibly controversial but very good

[–]boringcarpets 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

nearly everything they said and parodied pretty much happened in the media

[–]NibblyPig 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

And this is 13 years ago :(

[–]boringcarpets 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

i shit you not:

http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/item/21664-shocking-times-movement-for-pedophile-rights-marches-on

All that's missing is the "its just another form of racism" line

[–]WolfeBane84 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm pretty sure I heard Simon Pegg in there.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Somebody should start instigating strong fines for wasting the time and resources of The Police Department just because they "felt" somebody was up to no good.

And if they don't pay the fine, haul their butts to court.

[–]geniice 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Bad idea. The police want reports. They are also generally free not to investigate.

[–]cavehobbit 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He should mail that to every neighbor so they know someone in the neighborhood is a cowardly paranoid douche

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

This kind of scares me as a beginner photographer. I'm always afraid of taking photos at certain areas because of this.

[–]geniice -4 points-3 points-2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Because the police might talk to you? While photographers seem to make a lot of fuss each time they have a run in with the police it is a pretty uncommon event and bad PR from previous events means the police tend to be pretty well behaved these days. Security guards may present more of a problem.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I know it's pretty uncommon, but that doesn't mean I want it to happen to me. Especially if I get a shitty cop, and I'm doing nothing illegal.

[–]EvolvingRedneck -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Just remember always ask permission to photograph an individual. If you snap a candid photograph before talking to the person, then approach them afterwords and ask permission to use them while explaining your profession and intended use.

As for children, always ask the parents. I read somewhere a photographer who shot children and couldn't find the parents would give the child his business card. Then when the child tells mom & dad "a guy took pictures of me at the park", the kid can present the card putting the parents at ease with contact information.

[–]Lethn -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You're expecting people to think rationally in this situation, chances are it will be more like what this guy experienced every time, even if you give a card, they'll still throw wild accusations at you.

[–]Lethn -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you're taking photographs of common public landmarks you'll find yourself in even more trouble. Police often go around harassing photographers and people with video cameras thanks to idiots like this that overreact to everything they see and think there's a peadophile or rapist around every corner.

[–]thetruthfl 11 points12 points13 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The police state, coupled with brain dead paranoia from the ignorant masses, has made this country so very pathetic to just try and live a normal life. So very sad to see what we have become, and mostly since 9/11.

[–]SigmundFloyd76 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Dude, I have a book for you. Crime Control as Industry. First published in '94 by this Norwegian penal expert (penal expert! awesome).

I read it in '99. He basically predicts a 9/11, not specifically, but he says something similar was imminent in the next few years. He want on to predict essentially exactly the state of things right now. Written in 1994!

Basically the larger point was that crime control, in and of itself, was going to turn into this massive industry to make up for the vanishing manufacturing industry. He explains the social implications, like being detained for taking pictures in the park.

I have observed over the last 15 years how everything he said came true. Btw, I wear no tin foil hat.

I have a feeling you'd appreiate it.

[–]Wordshark 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That paperback costs $81

[–]SigmundFloyd76 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Holy shit, you're right! I got mine at a used book store for $1 or something.

[–]Vietnom 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Even more pathetic is that this news was broken by the Someecards blog.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My family has had some experience with this. My grandpa was white, but was so tanned he honestly looked black. Since he had curly black hair, that made him appear even more black.

I of course was as pale as could be. As a small child strangers would come up and question him about why he was walking around with a little white girl and why he kept snapping pictures of me. The situation would be diffused when the stranger would ask me, and I'd say, "That's my Pappaw!"

Nothing wrong with paying close attention to a situation that lose off, but I bet no one would say much about a black woman being out and about with a white child.

Those situations got even worse though when my grandpa got hold of a video-recorder and followed me around with it in public.

[–]PoundTownUSA 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

http://imgur.com/tZ4gpke

Fuck this lady. This mind set here is why "innocent until proven guilty" as been thrown out the window.

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"We have to be fearful of everyone".

No you don't. That's a choice. Statistically you're among the safest human beings to have ever lived. There aren't roving bans of pedophiles out to steal your kids' soul with a camera.

You have chosen to be paranoid and bigoted.

[–]bufedad 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

he could have hurt her and others around.

By taking pictures... with his camera. That's a pretty big leap right there.

[–]baserace 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh look, the police believed the mother.

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